Most famous ever Quebecer worldwide?

[Techman]

Rumples, it's really pointless to try to have a discussion with you on anything because you'll never see any position but your own. You even continue by posting a completely useless statement about a TV station that is available across the US and Canada and sales stats for a DVD set that is over 4 years old. As usual you totally miss the point.

I'm also far from being a 'Sci-fi cultist'. Sci-fi is just one of many kinds of entertainment that interest me. Boston Legal is hardly in the Sci-fi category now is it? Nor was the predecessor of that series, The Practice. I happen to be a fan of David E. Kelley's work, going all the way back to L.A. Law and Picket Fences, through Ally McBeal right to Boston Legal.

 

[Techman]

It becomes hilarious watching people trying to support Shatner's allegedly superior popularity with forgotten run-of-the-mill TV shows like TJ Hooker, and old classics like the Twilight Zone kids barely heard of...if they have, when the best argument remains the Star Trek phenomenon and Pop icons like Priceline. Do you really need to include poor substitutes.

Cheers,

Merlot

So to your way of thinking, if kids aren't fans then someone isn't famous? I don't think you'll find too many kids who are fans of Celine Dion. Her music isn't targeted at that age group.

 

[jeff jones]

This may have been already pointed out in this thread and if it was my apologizes but i am not going to read the whole thread to find out. Between Shatner and Dion there is no doubt that Shatner is more famous but if you just asked people who the most famous quebecer was and didn't tell them that Shatner was from quebec most people myself included would answer Dion or GSP. I always knew Shatner was from canada but i did not know he was from quebec until this thread started up.

 

[EagerBeaver]

.Between Shatner and Dion there is no doubt that Shatner is more famous ..

Dead on JJ. Bingo! The proof is really in the longevity of Shatner's career which has enabled his popularity to touch the older generation that watched Twilight Zone and Star Trek, and the younger generation that watched Boston Legal, The Practice and the Priceline commercial program spanning 15 years. Dion has a rather limited fanbase that is interested in pop radio. Shatner has status of cultural icon, science fiction Godfather and maker of TV classics.

The fact that there are many people who don't know Shatner is Quebecer and bilingual is partly due to the power of his acting ability, and partly due to the ethnocentric view of a person from Quebec, who is needing a French accent in order to see and be accepted as a Quebecer. This is the tragedy of Shatner's fame: he is not recognized by his own people both due to his power to create characters considered iconically American, and the populace not seeing him as one of their own. Numerous natives have confessed in this thread THAT DESPITE HIS IMMENSE POPULARITY, they did not know Shatner was raised in Montreal. This is unspeakably tragic. It's like me not knowing Mark Twain or Nathan Hale were Connecticut natives.

 

[shijak]

Let's examine what is fame, shall we?

If you were there as I was in the early to mid-80's, you couldn't get more famous in the pop music world than these four acts: Michael Jackson, Madonna, Cindy Lauper and Culture Club. Between November 1982 when Jackson's album Thriller was released until the album by USA for Africa which featured 36 other singers back in 1985, these four specifically were at the absolute top of pop music fame...

But 1986 was the turning point year for all of them, a make it or break it. Cindy Lauper's album that year yielded only one hit song (True Colours) and a couple of years later starred in a terrible movie flop. One further so-so hit in 1989 and Lauper effectively disappeared from the world's radar, reappearing once in a while for nostalgia fans...

Boy George and Culture Club had it rougher and earlier. On top of the world in November 1984 with Do they know it's Christmas, he spent 1985 hooked on heroin and split up his band, never to re-invent himself and almost vanished entirely, save for the odd hit like the theme song from the movie Crying Game...

The other two singers, do I really have to discuss them? Madonna knows full well how to play the fame game, even today when she is close to being a grandmother, she plays it better than girls a third her age. She never stays too many years without releasing an album, tours the world over, changes her style and adapts to trends, is not at all adverse to using sex and scandal to keep herself relevant (french-kissing Britney and Christina, for one, her SEX coffee-table book for another).

Michael Jackson, despite being a total freak in his personal life, was never a one-trick poney whether it was musical styles or dance steps... Far from following trends, he started many of them!

So here we are, four musical acts who back in late 1985 were arguably at the same level of world fame. Two of these despite visible talent faltered, made choices or for whatever reason today are only remembered by those of age then.
Doubtful these two acts could generate concert sales with tickets at 300$ a seat minimum, like the other two do (or would have, if Jackson were still alive).

But Jackson and Madonna knew how to play the fame game, kept producing a body of work and re-invented themselves to thrive, while so many of their contemporaries are today largely forgotten...

This is why I just scratch my head at many of the comments people put forth in this thread. Celine is totally headed towards the same oblivion as Boy George and Lauper. Plus, her songs have a coolness factor of about minus5, total box office poison to the youth market...

 

[Techman]

Don't knock Cyndi Lauper. She's been making a huge comeback into the 'cool' market since she appeared on Trump's crappy Celebrity Apprentice show. She released a book that hit the NY Times best sellers list in Sept and has her own TV show. She also scored the upcoming Broadway play, Kinky Boots. Her 2010 album, Memphis Blues, was the top selling Blues album of 2010, staying at the top of the Billboard Blues charts for 14 weeks. She's a much more versatile artist than Celine Dion and probably just as famous, if not more so.

 

[Techman]

Merlot, Celine Dion no longer tours. She headlines a show in Vegas which is what musical acts do when their career is coming to an end. She will be releasing a new English album next year after a 5 year gap. Once again, she will be covering hits from other artists. This time she will be destroying one of my favourite Journey songs, Open Arms, which will cause rock fans to throw up and never be able to listen to the song again. Celine may be a talented singer with an amazing vocal range, but she is unoriginal and boring. To be honest, I'd rather listen to Yoko Ono's wailings than to Celine destroying another classic.

And once again, you try to equate fame with youth. Guess what? The youth of today haven't lived long enough to be able to judge the longevity of any performer and fame with the young is very fleeting. And they are certainly not the market for Celine Dion albums.

 

[shijak]

Merlot,

I disagree as far as Shatner being as bad as many say in this thread. He is actually a solid talent. People see some of the cornier aspects of his Captain Kirk role (the stilted, sometimes overblown delivery) yet fail to remember that in american 1960's television, such was often the case. David Jansen of the Fugitive was sometimes prone to such behaviours, Elyzabeth Montgomery in Bewitched had some really bizarre affectations despite being a solid talent. Larry Hagman was a total ham on I Dream of Jeannie, yet was often nominated for Emmys a decade later for Dallas... At the time, this was what was expected sometimes. Yes even Leonard Nimoy was sometimes prone to huge melodramatics...

Look at Shatner in the Star Trek movies, the man was absolutely solid!. Sure, his ''Khaaaaaannnn!' scream is legendary for over the top, but in the third ST film when learning Kirk's son's death: pure dramatic gold!

If you are going to blast Shatner for hammy acting behaviours, then you have to blast guys like Al Pacino as well (he says ''ooh yeahhhh!'' all the time, as bad as when Arnold says: ''I'll be Ba-ach!'')...

Celine is a true talent? She can sing, sure, but WASTES it on GARBAGE songs. She has no stage presence during concerts, or at least not like a rocker does. Bruce Springsteen HAS presence. Celine moves around like a bad Broadway musicals singer...or if you prefer, like a bland American Idol contestant...
And sorry, you like her talent...I feel she totally destroyed the classic ''All by myself'' by Eric Carmen, What A wonderful World by Louis Armstrong was a sad parody... Shouldn't she have done better than the original singers? She covered Cindy Lauper's I drove all night.. . whew, badly-produced, terrible music-playing, and sorry but Cindy knocked it out of the park, Celine got barely a bunt...

The girl has NO edge, lets her hubby choose terribly bland songs with forgettable production values, warbles or screams out notes like Whitney Houston at her worst...Even worse, has no personality, no pop persona that I can detect. She tries so hard not to offend anyone, she appeals to no one.

What I mean is, look at Springsteen, he is blue-collar rock (white T-shirt & jeans). Boy George is new wave androginous, Britney Spears is slutty high school princess. Elton john is flaming nerdy boy.

What exactly is Celine? I can't tell.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Rumples, it's really pointless to try to have a discussion with you on anything because you'll never see any position but your own. You even continue by posting a completely useless statement about a TV station that is available across the US and Canada and sales stats for a DVD set that is over is hardly in the Sci-fi category now is it? Nor was the predecessor of that series, The Practice.

Oh please. Pot meet kettle.

You bolster your argument by pointing out that the series is on DVD; I shoot your argument down by pointing out that it's selling like shit, so all of a sudden, its DVD presence is irrelevant. Nice try.

By the way, you've been nominated for a Nobel Prize for pigheadedness, so don't try to feed me this garbage about the pointlessness of arguing with me.

 

[EagerBeaver]

What fucking Twilight Zone episode???? I saw every one of the original 1959-1964 series and I have no recollection of William Shatner's appearance. 99.9999996% of the world's population has no idea that William Shatner was in the Twilight Zone.

It's not really my job to educate those who need education, or enrich those who need cultural enrichment, but here is the entire original 1963 episode (which is all over the Internet):

http://vimeo.com/30123068

Here is the 1:41 highlight excerpt from the original episode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=827OGkGn_Kk

It's the best known Twilight Zone episode in 5 years worth of episodes and it has been spoofed, and also shot with an alternative ending, and an alternative spoof ending, and then remade in the 1980s movie. The original full episode I posted above from vimeo terrorized a whole generation of air travellers looking for Gremlins on the wings of their jets.

As I already noted it is also not the only TZ episode Shatner STARRED in. The other one was the aforementioned "fortune teller" episode, not as well known but also very good.

 

[Techman]

Hello Techman,

I don't like 90% of song remakes either.

I'm not equating youth with fame at all. The point about kids was Celine attracts new audiences.

So what if a star stops touring. Guess what? Charlie Chaplain, Elvis Presley, John Lennon, Katherine Hepburn, Clark Gable, Frank Sinatra, Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, John F. Kennedy, Marylin Monroe, Michael Jackson, etc...all DEAD. Their great fame lives.

You skipped the question. How will people remember Shatner after he's gone? Priceline Negotiator...cough, cough...is that going to attract new fans after he's gone? Puuulllllleeeeeeeese.

Shatner will be remembered for a number of reasons, not the least of which will be his portrayal of Captain Kirk, long after his death.

Céline Dion will not attract the young music buying public no matter what she releases. Certainly not with her retreads of other artists' songs. Her fan base already exists and will not grow any larger, if anything it will be reduced with time. Her music is classified as Adult Contemporary these days and will make no inroads in the market segment that listens to Nicky Minaj, Justin Bieber and other talentless 'stars' of today.

There's a difference between stopping to tour and becoming a Vegas headliner. Elvis died as a rock and roll presence when he became a fat Vegas sideshow act. And you cannot compare the Vegas of today with the golden age of Las Vegas when Sinatra and the Rat Pack ruled the stage or even with the Las Vegas of Elvis. In those days, a karaoke act like Celine would have no place. The Las Vegas of today is a family friendly giant theme park.

Your estimate of the influence of Star Trek is also very short sighted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek

Star Trek is noted for its influence on the world outside of science fiction. It has been cited as an inspiration for several technological inventions such as the cell phone. Moreover, the show is noted for its progressive civil rights stances. The original series included one of television's first multiracial casts, and the first televised multiracial kiss. Star Trek references can be found throughout popular culture from movies such as the submarine thriller Crimson Tide and the cartoon series South Park

And there is still a rabid audience for the original Star Trek series. It has been entirely remastered in wide screen 16X9 for Blu-ray release with completely new effects at the cost of many millions of dollars.

You might also check this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_influence_of_Star_Trek

If that was the only role that William Shatner had ever done, it would still guarantee his place in history.

 

[CWipes]

Denny Crane

 

[Possum Trot]

On second thought it's pretty sad if everyone thinks Shatner is Quebec most famous Quebecer. Pathetic really. A geek/nerd hero. Should be Pierre Trudeau or Louis St Laurent.

 

[shijak]

The title of this thread is for the most FAMOUS, not most WORTHY...Try and learn what the difference is

 

[wasisname]

Merlot,

I disagree as far as Shatner being as bad as many say in this thread. He is actually a solid talent. People see some of the cornier aspects of his Captain Kirk role (the stilted, sometimes overblown delivery) yet fail to remember that in american 1960's television, such was often the case.

In his biography [or one of them, I don't know how many there are] he claims that he picked it up on stage. He was doing a show that was dying and he started to ham it up .. by ...talking... withgaps... and saved the show by making it funny. This is from memory as I read the book a few years back.

 

[EagerBeaver]

In his biography [or one of them, I don't know how many there are] he claims that he picked it up on stage. He was doing a show that was dying and he started to ham it up .. by ...talking... withgaps... and saved the show by making it funny. This is from memory as I read the book a few years back.

It's refreshing to see you and Shijak actually making intelligent and well informed posts after an avalanche of misinformed posts by posters who frankly know Jackshit about Shatner's career.

Anyone who was around in the 1960s and watching TV shows at that time know that camp was the order of the day. Hogan's Heroes, Batman, The Muensters, I Dream of Jeannie, Gilligan's Island, Gomer Pyle, Beverly Hillbillies were all part of that trend and one of the reasons Shatner got the role of Kirk over Jeffrey Hunter is that Shatner added an element that Hunter did not. Many people also called Bob Crane and Adam West lightweights but they were excellent in the roles in which they were cast. Shatner did something very few actors could do which was add a comic/camp element to an otherwise serious science fiction television series. His banter and interplay with the other characters which was playful and comical made the series, period and end of story. A lot of people forget that Lost in Space was another campy science fiction series of the 1960s and although they did a movie remake that series never had the enduring legacy that Star Trek enjoys til this day. This is historical fact not capable of being disputed.

Today we lost Larry Hagman, like Shatner 81 and like Shatner a major television star in multiple decades starting in the 1960s. Hagman went from I Dream of Jeannie to J.R. Ewing in a little over a decade and enjoyed worldwide popularity. Ultimately in part due to Hagman's health issues, Shatner ended up having the more prolific career although both had tremendous careers.

Shatner has won 2 Emmys and a Golden Globe and his acting skills are beyond reproach for some of the reasons already mentioned. In fact he was practically the inventor of the using of pauses for comic effect and if you notice, nobody has dared to try to play Kirk the same way. Reason why is that style of acting is not easy to pull off because it requires timing and effect by a skilled actor. If it was easy to do there would be many successful imitators. There are none.

Again, a little education for the know-nothings:

"After graduating from McGill University in 1952 Shatner became business manager for the Mountain Playhouse in Montréal before joining the Canadian National Repertory Theatre in Ottawa. Trained as a classical Shakespearean actor, Shatner began performing at the Shakespearean Stratford Festival of Canada in Stratford, Ontario beginning in 1954. He played a range of roles at the Stratford Festival in productions that included a minor role in the opening scene of a renowned and nationally televised production of Sophocles' Oedipus Rex directed by Tyrone Guthrie, Shakespeare's Henry V, and Marlowe's Tamburlaine the Great, in which Shatner made his Broadway debut in 1956. In 1954, he was cast as Ranger Bob on The Canadian Howdy Doody Show. Shatner was understudy to Christopher Plummer; the two would later star as adversaries in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.

Guthrie had called the young Shatner the Stratford Festival's most promising actor, and he was seen as a peer to contemporaries like Steve McQueen, Paul Newman, and Robert Redford. Shatner was not as successful as the others, however, and during the 1960s he "became a working actor who showed up on time, knew his lines, worked cheap and always answered his phone." His motto was "Work equals work", but Shatner's willingness to take any role, no matter how "forgettable", likely hurt his career.

In his role as Kirk, Shatner famously kissed African American actress Nichelle Nichols (Lt. Uhura) in the November 22, 1968, Star Trek episode "Plato's Stepchildren". The episode is popularly cited as the first example of an interracial kiss between a white man and a black woman on scripted television in the United States."

 

[joelcairo]

The title of this thread is for the most FAMOUS, not most WORTHY...Try and learn what the difference is

Very well said. I would add that "ham" is not a synonym for "fame" (except perhaps in Connecticut).

 

[Doc Holliday]

Shatner in Twilight Zone

Not only did William Shatner appear in "Nightmare at 20 000 Feet", which is a classic that was remade for Twilight Zone: The Movie & starred John Lithgow in the Shatner role, but he had appeared previously in "Nick of Time", which was also a very good episode, but not a classic like the other episode was:

Twilight Zone "Nick of Time"

Shatner also appeared at least two tv "Columbo" tv movies called "Fade In to Murder" and "Butterflies in Shades of Grey". Columbo remains one of my all-time tv movie series.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Doc,

What is great about Shatner in "Nick of Time" is how his character becomes slowly, manically obsessed by the fortune teller, to the point where he almost loses control, unlike his character in "Terror at 20,000 Feet", who does lose control. Although not as well known as "Terror at 20,000 feet", Nick of Time is a quality episode featuring a strong performance by Shatner.

By the ways Doc, did you notice the ultimate irony in "Nick of Time"? Shatner tells his wife he is not going to ask the fortune teller if he will be a millionaire, "because I already know the answer to that question." This was back in 1960 when Shatner was 29 years old, long before he became a 9 figure millionaire (and some would say a billionaire once he redeems his PL shares).

 

[Techman]

Try making a thread of the "Greatest" Quebecer and Shatner's name withers to beneath hundreds.

Maybe so, but Celine Dion's name wouldn't even make the list.