Murder in Kingston

[eastender]

Breaking story from the Gazette:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/Family+charged+with+murder+Kingston+deaths/1816807/story.html


If the url does not work go to :

www.montrealgazette.com

Will reserve comment BUT this story definitely provides ample topics for discussion.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Eastender,

The link you posted is not working.

 

[eastender]

Should Work

Eastender,

The link you posted is not working.

Re-posted. The story is breaking with updates so the links may change. Added the actual newspaper site which would cover this.

 

[Techman]

I thought there was something fishy about their 'joyriding' story right from the beginning and it looks like the cops did too. This is why I wish we still had the death penalty in Canada. Animals like that don't deserve to live.

They should be sentenced to spend the rest of their lives in a small windowless room wallpapered with pictures of the family members they murdered.

 

[TheOne]

Honour killing???? When will these people start realising that things are not done in THEIR way here? You are in North America start living life like we do. This is not to blame all muslims but those fundamental, try to keep our way of living here morons. What the F**K, wake up get rid of your made up rules and laws and start integrating with North America. I am of Europeen descent and I don't start running around dressed in my country's cultural or religious clothes, we have come into the new millenium. You don't like it? Go back and don't come here under this country's protection or freedom!

 

[eastender]

Kingston

I thought there was something fishy about their 'joyriding' story right from the beginning and it looks like the cops did too. This is why I wish we still had the death penalty in Canada. Animals like that don't deserve to live.

They should be sentenced to spend the rest of their lives in a small windowless room wallpapered with pictures of the family members they murdered.

True. Anyone who has been to Kingston would realize that the motels and hotels are not easily accessible to the area where the tragedy happened. Out of towners arriving at the spot by chance is highly suspicious.

BTW Kingston is the penitentiary capital of Canada.

 

[eastender]

More Details

More details are emerging:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/Charges+allege+murder+plot+began/1816807/story.html

Also if readers would like to follow the story from an on site source:

www.kingstonwhigstandard.com

 

[Mike Mercury]

Canada offers refugee status to all sorts of people, especially when they have money.

 

[Dee]

This is a true test of our multicultural society as the act so offends the principles of the majority. On the other hand, this is an occasion when we can truly demonstrate our tolerance and acceptance of other cultures.

IF these are truly honour killings WITHIN THEIR OWN SOCIETY then it would be improper to prosecute anyone... they acted in accordance with accepted norms of their society.

Where matters become more difficult is when honour killings are committed outside their society... I think that we can respect their traditions, while still emphasizing the majority's rights, by having them serve a conditional sentence in the community.

If our society's norms, mores and values are superior, over time the others will be rejected and we'll live with a homogeneous value system.

 

[anon_vlad]

IF these are truly honour killings WITHIN THEIR OWN SOCIETY then it would be improper to prosecute anyone

Is this some sick joke? If a man wishes to torture and kill his daughter because she has been raped, should he call the police and warn them not to interfere due to it being normal for his culture?

I have seen a man assault another as the latter was innocently conversing with his sister. Even if this was normal for the ethnic group of the former, should the latter be protected by the law?
a) unconditionally yes
b) unconditionally no
c) only if he belongs to a different ethnic group than the first man?

Anyone living in Canada is entitled to the protection of Canadian laws.

 

[eastender]

Country of Origin / Adopted Country

Leaving your country of origin regardless of the reason(s) implies that you are not satisfied with the country of origin and that your adopted country is measurably better. So accepting the laws and customs of the adopted country has to be part of the deal.

From the standpoint of the adopted country is it practical to become an arena for this "settling of accounts" mindset - effectively taking the law into your own hands. Any answer other than no is inadequate.

 

[Techman]

This is a true test of our multicultural society as the act so offends the principles of the majority. On the other hand, this is an occasion when we can truly demonstrate our tolerance and acceptance of other cultures.

IF these are truly honour killings WITHIN THEIR OWN SOCIETY then it would be improper to prosecute anyone... they acted in accordance with accepted norms of their society.

Where matters become more difficult is when honour killings are committed outside their society... I think that we can respect their traditions, while still emphasizing the majority's rights, by having them serve a conditional sentence in the community.

If our society's norms, mores and values are superior, over time the others will be rejected and we'll live with a homogeneous value system.

WHAT? Improper to prosecute for the murders of three of their own children??? If that kind of thing meets with the approval with any 'society' on Earth, that society should be eradicated from the face of the planet along with whatever religion taught them such beliefs.

If that kind of tradition is considered proper in the Afghan way of life, then we should get our troops who are dying for their stoneage society the hell out of there and bring them all back home where they belong. Let the savages kill each other for all I care, but let them do it to themselves in their own country, not here in ours.

The US should have nuked them after 911.

 

[Merlot]

Is this some sick joke? If a man wishes to torture and kill his daughter because she has been raped, should he call the police and warn them not to interfere due to it being normal for his culture?

I have seen a man assault another as the latter was innocently conversing with his sister. Even if this was normal for the ethnic group of the former, should the latter be protected by the law?
a) unconditionally yes
b) unconditionally no
c) only if he belongs to a different ethnic group than the first man?

Anyone living in Canada is entitled to the protection of Canadian laws.

Hello Anon,

Unfortunately, the premise Dee refers to is very real. In the case of what we would call "rape", in some Muslim societies the guilty one is not necessarily a rapist, it's being the victim who failed to resist the rape successfully. Women in some countries have been hanged publicly for unsuccessfully defending themselves against what we would call a rape. The one we would call the "rapist" would get far less blame or punishment. An episode like this in Kingston is nothing new. There have been many stories of Muslim women in Western countries who dare to go on dates Western-style being killed for disgracing their families.

Honor as applied in Muslim countries regarding marriage is very male biased. I had a very close friend from a less conservative Muslim country, who grew up in the U.S., for several years. He acted like every "red-blooded American boy" chasing and fucking women whenever he could. He saw Western non-Muslim women as whores to be used for his pleasure, something not made clear to me for a long time. Though he was able to take his pleasures as he wished, the view he had of his sisters was they were to be unquestioned virgins absolutely. He was extremely worried that even their going out with American friends would taint their value for a Muslim marriage, which was to be arranged in the ancient way. The sisters were to have no choice about this future. So men could do much as they pleased, but the virtuous honor of the women was sacred. That's Muslim honor regarding sex and marriage. As to him, his marriage to a Muslim woman was also to be arranged, but unlike the Muslim wife, he could screw around if he pleased.

Nice,

Merlot

 

[hormone]

. So men could do much as they pleased, but the virtuous honor of the women was sacred. That's Muslim honor. As to him, his marriage to a Muslim woman was also to be arranged, but unlike the Muslim wife, he could screw around if he pleased.
t

Sad but so true... I hope the ones who did this rot in jail for very very very long...
I hope the culprits have plenty of time in jail to "adjust" to their new society's values... that may be quite another shock to them...
To me, a man who does an "honor lilling" is as bad as a rapist or child molester...

 

[eastender]

Taking the Law Into Your Own Hands

Wow. There hasn't been a trial yet. The guilt of the accused has not been established. The police have not demonstrated the well-foundedness of their accusations nor have they divulged the nature of their proof. Yet the peanut gallery is ready to pronounce sentence as if the police have never erred.

Interesting comment. Effectively pointing out how some propose taking the law into their own hands to punish those who did likewise.

 

[Techman]

I don't want to speak for Techman but i am sure like me he wants to see who ever is found guilty of this crime to face the death penalty wether it be there family members or someone else, once convicted then hang them who ever it may be

Well said. Sums up my feelings exactly.

Eastender, where did I say that I would like to take things into my own hands? The suspects, like any other suspect in any other crime, have the right to their day in court. My previous comment which johnhenrygalt quoted should have been prefaced by the words 'If convicted'. Sorry if I assumed that people would take that for a given.

As for my previous statement that our young men and women serving in Afghanistan should be brought home instead of dying for people who's beliefs and society haven't even moved into the first century much lest the 21st, I stand by that completely.

Techman

 

[eastender]

Comment

Well said. Sums up my feelings exactly.

Eastender, where did I say that I would like to take things into my own hands? The suspects, like any other suspect in any other crime, have the right to their day in court. My previous comment which johnhenrygalt quoted should have been prefaced by the words 'If convicted'. Sorry if I assumed that people would take that for a given.

As for my previous statement that our young men and women serving in Afghanistan should be brought home instead of dying for people who's beliefs and society haven't even moved into the first century much lest the 21st, I stand by that completely.

Techman

Techman,

I commented on the post by JHG, not on your post. If I wanted to comment specifically on your post I would have done so.

 

[Techman]

EE, johnhenrygalt's post was directly in response to my earlier post as that is the one he quoted. Your post quoting him and then stating "Effectively pointing out how some propose taking the law into their own hands to punish those who did likewise." is a direct comment by proxy on my post.

I do not see how you can deny this. As he was quoting my post, how could your post be taken otherwise?

 

[Mike Mercury]

This is a true test of our multicultural society as the act so offends the principles of the majority. On the other hand, this is an occasion when we can truly demonstrate our tolerance and acceptance of other cultures.

IF these are truly honour killings WITHIN THEIR OWN SOCIETY then it would be improper to prosecute anyone... they acted in accordance with accepted norms of their society.

Where matters become more difficult is when honour killings are committed outside their society... I think that we can respect their traditions, while still emphasizing the majority's rights, by having them serve a conditional sentence in the community.

If our society's norms, mores and values are superior, over time the others will be rejected and we'll live with a homogeneous value system.

The good old days.
Blood feuds. He killed my cow so I kill his son then he kill my son. À la The Hatfields and McCoys. This is going on in Albania,
Crimes of passion. Guy comes home, catches wife giving BJ to the neighbour, he shoots them both. Passion was a legimate, mitigating defence in some of Europe up to the 1970's.
The Hindus and their dowries. The husband dies. The inlaws force the widow to be burned in the dead husnad's funeral pyre. Happen 100s of times a year in India.
The Muslims and their incorrigible superiority/inferiority superstitious collective barabaric psychotic contempt of women and non-muslims. Hundreds of young women have been assiinated in in France, UK, USA and now Canada.

 

[eastender]

Suggestion

EE, johnhenrygalt's post was directly in response to my earlier post as that is the one he quoted. Your post quoting him and then stating "Effectively pointing out how some propose taking the law into their own hands to punish those who did likewise." is a direct comment by proxy on my post.

I do not see how you can deny this. As he was quoting my post, how could your post be taken otherwise?

Techman,

My post is in the plural future sense, going forward - some as opposed to one and propose as opposed to proposed. Effectively adding to JHG's comment that it is not the path we should be taking and reinforcing it with an additional voice.