My family is not broken
- Thread starter AdeleBeaumont
- Start date
The thread has taken an interesting detour. With that said:
Dude, we know you don't like Kamala Harris but making up shit to justify your hatred is what Trump aka The Spraytanic Verses should call "fake news." Kamala Harris is a co-sponsor of the bill. There were 60 co-sponsors from both parties. The person who actually introduced SESTA was Senator Rob Portman of Ohio. Rob Portman had previously initiated an investigation of Backpage.
Dude, we know you don't like Kamala Harris but making up shit to justify your hatred is what Trump aka The Spraytanic Verses should call "fake news." Kamala Harris is a co-sponsor of the bill. There were 60 co-sponsors from both parties. The person who actually introduced SESTA was Senator Rob Portman of Ohio. Rob Portman had previously initiated an investigation of Backpage.
No one is disputing that Harris was bad for sex-workers. But you're fabricating out of whole cloth by insisting she was "a major force" for a bill that she didn't even introduce.
Your first source, which you picked, says she was a co-sponsor of the bill. Being a co-sponsor is significant if there are maybe one or two of you. But being a co-sponsor is a wash if almost 2/3rds of the voting body are co-sponsors too. That meant the bill was seen as correct policy and/or superficially problematic as a no-vote. After all, absent the details it's hard to be the Senator that didn't vote against sex trafficking. (Ron Wyden and Rand Paul voted against it)
With all that said, it's highly dubious that she was a major force for the bill when the bill was actually the product of Rob Portman. As I previously mentioned, Portman had previously spearheaded investigations against Backpage. When the victory lap for SESTA-FOSTA happened, the person taking credit for it wasn't Kamala Harris but...wait for it...wait for it...Rob Portman.
https://www.portman.senate.gov/news...ortman-statement-doj-actions-against-backpage
Somewhere in the link above, Portman even referred to the bill as "my SESTA."
It's not often that a woman receives credit for men's work. I applaud your attempt in trying to rectify injustice of undue credit.
Your first source, which you picked, says she was a co-sponsor of the bill. Being a co-sponsor is significant if there are maybe one or two of you. But being a co-sponsor is a wash if almost 2/3rds of the voting body are co-sponsors too. That meant the bill was seen as correct policy and/or superficially problematic as a no-vote. After all, absent the details it's hard to be the Senator that didn't vote against sex trafficking. (Ron Wyden and Rand Paul voted against it)
With all that said, it's highly dubious that she was a major force for the bill when the bill was actually the product of Rob Portman. As I previously mentioned, Portman had previously spearheaded investigations against Backpage. When the victory lap for SESTA-FOSTA happened, the person taking credit for it wasn't Kamala Harris but...wait for it...wait for it...Rob Portman.
https://www.portman.senate.gov/news...ortman-statement-doj-actions-against-backpage
Somewhere in the link above, Portman even referred to the bill as "my SESTA."
It's not often that a woman receives credit for men's work. I applaud your attempt in trying to rectify injustice of undue credit.
Patron,
Your argument seems to be that the FESTA/SOSTA bill and related laws as well as local laws foster the artificial distinction between SBs and escorts. There is no doubt that this, as well as SA’s own board rules which essentially forbid escorts, is true. My response to this is that the artificial distinction is a logical outgrowth of illogical laws created by hypocritical politicians. When looked at that way, it’s very easy to defend the SB perspective as merely being “survival of the fittest” in a world not of their creation and in which only the fittest to adapt do survive.
There are escorts on SA and, probably like Kyla if she is on SA, they are very cagey and crafty. They know that SA now has a “report as escort” button, which works just like MERB’s “report post.” These are the kinds of things that foster the distinction as a survival mechanism - which is not discussed in that law student’s “excellent dissertation”, which apparently did not include actually using SA. I have messaged some escorts on SA and if you ask them “what are your financial requirements?” They will respond with “$X for my time.” One said to me, “X$ for dinner, $Y for something else.” This is them using the coded language referred to in the said “dissertation.” The same as SBs. So your posts have proved that the legal side of it has forced the artificial distinction SBs are compelled to create for themselves. To me it’s very logical and it’s also totally irrelevant to anything that the average intelligent person who sees both escorts and SBs needs to worry about.
Your argument seems to be that the FESTA/SOSTA bill and related laws as well as local laws foster the artificial distinction between SBs and escorts. There is no doubt that this, as well as SA’s own board rules which essentially forbid escorts, is true. My response to this is that the artificial distinction is a logical outgrowth of illogical laws created by hypocritical politicians. When looked at that way, it’s very easy to defend the SB perspective as merely being “survival of the fittest” in a world not of their creation and in which only the fittest to adapt do survive.
There are escorts on SA and, probably like Kyla if she is on SA, they are very cagey and crafty. They know that SA now has a “report as escort” button, which works just like MERB’s “report post.” These are the kinds of things that foster the distinction as a survival mechanism - which is not discussed in that law student’s “excellent dissertation”, which apparently did not include actually using SA. I have messaged some escorts on SA and if you ask them “what are your financial requirements?” They will respond with “$X for my time.” One said to me, “X$ for dinner, $Y for something else.” This is them using the coded language referred to in the said “dissertation.” The same as SBs. So your posts have proved that the legal side of it has forced the artificial distinction SBs are compelled to create for themselves. To me it’s very logical and it’s also totally irrelevant to anything that the average intelligent person who sees both escorts and SBs needs to worry about.
EB,
You gave a very good explanation and if that was reality and if everybody thought of it the way you do I would not have an issue with it.
You know how the old saying goes, you say it long enough and before you know it you think it is true.
SB actually believe they are not prostitutes and look down on them and escorts and start believing that they deserve to be " helped and pampered" ( sort of like hookers are muses and escorts companions etc...) .
SD are not Johns or Clients, they are well to do gentlemen who are mentoring and helping out with tuition and sharing their wealth with women that deserve a little help.
I see this same attitude on the seeking arrangements thread by so called SD who put down all love relationships simply because they are incapable of it and have managed to fuck it up repeatedly when they tried.
Give me a fucking break, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a fucking duck.
You gave a very good explanation and if that was reality and if everybody thought of it the way you do I would not have an issue with it.
You know how the old saying goes, you say it long enough and before you know it you think it is true.
SB actually believe they are not prostitutes and look down on them and escorts and start believing that they deserve to be " helped and pampered" ( sort of like hookers are muses and escorts companions etc...) .
SD are not Johns or Clients, they are well to do gentlemen who are mentoring and helping out with tuition and sharing their wealth with women that deserve a little help.
I see this same attitude on the seeking arrangements thread by so called SD who put down all love relationships simply because they are incapable of it and have managed to fuck it up repeatedly when they tried.
Give me a fucking break, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a fucking duck.
Fradi,
Your posts are full of sweeping generalizations which do not exist in reality. There are all kinds of SDs and SBs on SA. They don’t all fit into the categories you have created. You create this illusion of snobbery which doesn’t at all apply and in some cases laughingly doesn’t apply. The average SB is the loan strapped college student who needs money badly and doesn’t really give a rat’s ass about whether she is better than an escort or not. Her behavior is tailored to follow rules and laws dictated to her. That’s it. All the rest of it is drama that doesn’t exist in most of the SBs I have met.
Your posts are full of sweeping generalizations which do not exist in reality. There are all kinds of SDs and SBs on SA. They don’t all fit into the categories you have created. You create this illusion of snobbery which doesn’t at all apply and in some cases laughingly doesn’t apply. The average SB is the loan strapped college student who needs money badly and doesn’t really give a rat’s ass about whether she is better than an escort or not. Her behavior is tailored to follow rules and laws dictated to her. That’s it. All the rest of it is drama that doesn’t exist in most of the SBs I have met.
One thing I would add to the above post is why, if SBs really thought they were a cut above, do so many profiles on SA have private pics, why are there fake handles, why do almost all SBs emphasize in their profile the need for discretion? In other words some of their behaviors show they know they are doing something not approved by their families or by society at large.
I have had a date with a SB in which her family walked into a restaurant while we were having dinner together at a table in the back of the restaurant. Do you think she warmly introduced me to her parents as her “well to do SD”? She suddenly got up from the table and excused herself to the restroom. I didn’t recognize her family, as I hadn’t met them, so I had no idea what was going on. I assumed she had gotten sick and was vomiting in the restroom. After a few minutes she sent me a text from the toilet. Said she would exit the restaurant from the rear, to pay the bill, and meet her at my car. I did. I went out through the front door. Her family had not seen her, as she later learned, but she was too stressed out to continue the date that night. However this incident illustrates that most SBs know full well they are doing something that their families don’t approve of. This is exactly how an escort would likely behave in the same situation.
I have had a date with a SB in which her family walked into a restaurant while we were having dinner together at a table in the back of the restaurant. Do you think she warmly introduced me to her parents as her “well to do SD”? She suddenly got up from the table and excused herself to the restroom. I didn’t recognize her family, as I hadn’t met them, so I had no idea what was going on. I assumed she had gotten sick and was vomiting in the restroom. After a few minutes she sent me a text from the toilet. Said she would exit the restaurant from the rear, to pay the bill, and meet her at my car. I did. I went out through the front door. Her family had not seen her, as she later learned, but she was too stressed out to continue the date that night. However this incident illustrates that most SBs know full well they are doing something that their families don’t approve of. This is exactly how an escort would likely behave in the same situation.
It is a case when faced with reality in the flesh then the pretense is out the window.
I will not debate this with you longer as I don't really care, as I said I don't have the patience for it and if I want role play it will not be someone pretending not to be a prostitute but an all round wholesome univercity student who just needs a little help with her studies.
There is nothing wrong with being a prostitute or escort or SB and I totally admire the ones that openly advertise and value their clients.
I like the escorts I see they are wonderful women with whom I have an exceptional time.
They are gorgeous, go out of their way to please me, I have a great relationship with the ones I repeat with especially my ATF, but there are no pretences, we both know if the $$ stops the relationship is over.
I will not debate this with you longer as I don't really care, as I said I don't have the patience for it and if I want role play it will not be someone pretending not to be a prostitute but an all round wholesome univercity student who just needs a little help with her studies.
There is nothing wrong with being a prostitute or escort or SB and I totally admire the ones that openly advertise and value their clients.
I like the escorts I see they are wonderful women with whom I have an exceptional time.
They are gorgeous, go out of their way to please me, I have a great relationship with the ones I repeat with especially my ATF, but there are no pretences, we both know if the $$ stops the relationship is over.
I do think there's a distinction between SB and escort. I used to have an account on SA, as a SB I was totally fine with receiving gifts over $$ and going on vacations with a man without getting $$.
As an escort I only accept donations and I don't want to negotiate. But I have never felt more important or better with myself for being a SB, that is ridiculous. At the end of the day it's the same.
As an escort I only accept donations and I don't want to negotiate. But I have never felt more important or better with myself for being a SB, that is ridiculous. At the end of the day it's the same.
Kyla,
You bring up another good point, which is that escorts are not negotiable whereas SBs are, and if there is a chemistry and connection with the SB, from my experience the negotiation goes heavily in favor of the SD. I have done trips with SBs where all I paid them for was the equivalent of one hour of intimacy with an escort, although also paying for their meals, hotel, and entertainment (e.g. Empire State Building tickets, museum tickets).
I am taking a SB with me on a trip next week. I am not paying her anything, and the deal is we are going as friends, and I will buy her meals, pay for our lodging, and also any activities we do (bike rentals, movies etc.) She left up to me whether I want intimacy, if I do it's $300 per each time we are intimate. I doubt I will, we do it when I feel like it, otherwise she is fine getting together as friends for no pay. The guys posting in this thread do not understand that relationships like this do get born on SA. Many times. Which is why some of Fradi's posts drive me bananas. He eliminates the possibility that you can meet someone, have sex with them and you actually become friends. The term "friends with benefits" exists and sometimes accurately describes what the relationship is.
You bring up another good point, which is that escorts are not negotiable whereas SBs are, and if there is a chemistry and connection with the SB, from my experience the negotiation goes heavily in favor of the SD. I have done trips with SBs where all I paid them for was the equivalent of one hour of intimacy with an escort, although also paying for their meals, hotel, and entertainment (e.g. Empire State Building tickets, museum tickets).
I am taking a SB with me on a trip next week. I am not paying her anything, and the deal is we are going as friends, and I will buy her meals, pay for our lodging, and also any activities we do (bike rentals, movies etc.) She left up to me whether I want intimacy, if I do it's $300 per each time we are intimate. I doubt I will, we do it when I feel like it, otherwise she is fine getting together as friends for no pay. The guys posting in this thread do not understand that relationships like this do get born on SA. Many times. Which is why some of Fradi's posts drive me bananas. He eliminates the possibility that you can meet someone, have sex with them and you actually become friends. The term "friends with benefits" exists and sometimes accurately describes what the relationship is.
No EB I think it is you who doesn’t understand, actually I am very good friends with two of the escorts I see, we talk all the time, we do things outside of sex,, my only point was that there is no pretence that it is not fucking for money and one is not superior to another and to cut the bullshit.
The other point I was making that SD, SB or escort/client relationship is in no way comparable to a loving relationship when both are willing to put their life on the line for the other, this obviously very few have experienced and I hate the fact that every opportunity they have they take a dig at this with comments like “ same as marriage but without bitching rights, WTF.
A bunch of sour old men who have fucked up all their relationships, then finally find someone who they are paying btw and all of a sudden think they are superior to everyone and know what life is all about and are the absolute authority on women.
Well said Kyla. This is exactly what I think too.
The advantage of SB is that they get to chose the client and only have intimacy with the one they dig.
But that is all nice toughs and words...
Because bring an ugly client to an SB who says he will give the her 2000$ per encounter... Bingo in such case 99% of SB girl will become an escort and the ugliness of the dude does not matter anymore.
Good social skills, good chemistry, good look, good physical conditions and hygiene really does matters but down the road the ONLY thing that truly matters above everything else is money.
That is why I personally think ANY distinction between SB and SP does not matter at all. And to think that all SP have a broken past or under the influence of a pimp is ridiculous.
Cheers,
p.s. When I say uglydude I do not mean physically. The physique or age of a men is viewed very differently by women. They are much less superficial then we think
I think you are complaining about one poster in particular who suffered through some bad marriages and messy divorces. He found something that apparently works for him on SA. What I have is a lot different- it's more of a friendship than a relationship, with the occasional sexual benefits, which actually are very occasional these days because my sexual motor is petering out with age. It's finding a person that you can do things with outside of sex that a lot of guys, myself included, value. I think it only works because I have treated her like a friend, and because we have similar curious minds about restaurants and travel and like to do the same things. She is the best female friend I have had in my life, probably. In many ways it startles me, because on the surface we are very different: I am white, she is black, I am from the suburbs, she is from the inner city. Yet we have more in common than you would think. She also is not a secret any more. All my coworkers know about her and have met her, and now my family knows about her too.
EB
I am happy for you it is great if you find someone you are happy with, be it SB, escort or girlfriend, wife it doesn’t matter.
I just hate BS and people that think their shit doesn’t stink.
I have met a few escorts that are very intelligent, have their act together, have a plan in place and don’t come from broken homes, ( I am saying a few simply because I haven’t met too many escorts, I tend to repeat more than most guys ) and I have met ones that do and will unfortunately have to live with the scars left by that for the rest of their life.
The other thing that gets to me me is when they start comparing a paid for relationship to a relationship built on love.
I know the difference, I have lived it with the woman of my dreams, we did not take advantage of each other we pooled our resources ( and by the way her income level was higher than mine) managed to create a fabulous lifestyle, paid for our kids education purchased homes cars etc. for them their future is secure and I will always have these memories.
Now that she is gone I see escorts some of whom are exceptional and wonderful women one in particular (who does not come from a broken home btw) has basically nursed me back from the loss I could not accept.
I don’t envy SD or think negatively about SB I just call a spade, a spade it is fucking for money.
You bring up things like you are not paying anything except Dinner, the vacation, museums, mmm what are you using for these payments, turnips. Is there a difference if a John pays an escort for fucking and then she uses that money for dinner, trips and vacations.
The difference EB would be if she would be paying for your dinner and vacation, wonder if she has made that offer.
Again I am happy it is working out for you we all have one life and deserve to be happy.
I have been extremely fortunate with an exceptional woman that I had a lifetime of happiness with and even now I have an ATF who is an Exotic Dream Princess that I will never be able to see enough of.
So all is good.
I am happy for you it is great if you find someone you are happy with, be it SB, escort or girlfriend, wife it doesn’t matter.
I just hate BS and people that think their shit doesn’t stink.
I have met a few escorts that are very intelligent, have their act together, have a plan in place and don’t come from broken homes, ( I am saying a few simply because I haven’t met too many escorts, I tend to repeat more than most guys ) and I have met ones that do and will unfortunately have to live with the scars left by that for the rest of their life.
The other thing that gets to me me is when they start comparing a paid for relationship to a relationship built on love.
I know the difference, I have lived it with the woman of my dreams, we did not take advantage of each other we pooled our resources ( and by the way her income level was higher than mine) managed to create a fabulous lifestyle, paid for our kids education purchased homes cars etc. for them their future is secure and I will always have these memories.
Now that she is gone I see escorts some of whom are exceptional and wonderful women one in particular (who does not come from a broken home btw) has basically nursed me back from the loss I could not accept.
I don’t envy SD or think negatively about SB I just call a spade, a spade it is fucking for money.
You bring up things like you are not paying anything except Dinner, the vacation, museums, mmm what are you using for these payments, turnips. Is there a difference if a John pays an escort for fucking and then she uses that money for dinner, trips and vacations.
The difference EB would be if she would be paying for your dinner and vacation, wonder if she has made that offer.
Again I am happy it is working out for you we all have one life and deserve to be happy.
I have been extremely fortunate with an exceptional woman that I had a lifetime of happiness with and even now I have an ATF who is an Exotic Dream Princess that I will never be able to see enough of.
So all is good.
Just once. In April, she insisted on buying me dinner for my birthday. The week of my birthday I got sick, and our schedules were such that it was postponed until well into May. She revisited the issue with me once I was better and told me to choose any restaurant I wanted. I ended up choosing a restaurant we had both eaten at previously. A Chinese restaurant, not too pricy, with very good food. I chose it mainly because I knew that she liked their lobster fried rice and their house made fried dumplings. And sure enough, that was exactly what she ordered- the dumplings and the fried rice. But in 2 years of seeing her that was the only time she bought me dinner.
I should also note that she is now graduated from college, is working 2 jobs, has her own apartment and just a bought a used BMW, so she is not exactly destitute or desperately in need of money. When I met her she was still in school. So it was not like I should be ashamed of accepting the offer. I might have been when I met her.
Excellent executive summary, and all I would add is that between those categories ladies are all over the map on the financial side of the arrangement and a lot of people would be surprised to hear that if chemistry is good and they have a comfort level and feel safe with you, they place a premium on that and will not necessarily demand a large amount of money. This is the equalizer. One other things is that there is a very large % who will only do pics and videos and for meager amounts of money, although SA is now implementing new rules deterring online-only arrangements due to scammers, as discussed in more detail in the other thread.
GMA,
Who can forget the scene in Midnight Cowboy in which Jon Voight, playing a male gigolo/escort, takes an intimate date with the not totally disgusting Sylvia Miles (RIP- she recently passed away), and she ends up shaming him into paying her instead of vice versa. I present to all of you this classic scene from the only X rated film to ever win the Academy Award:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6UG7H2dcos
These are my meager 2 cents towards this discussion. Ask yourself with what part of your nest egg you are willing to part to get your SB out of some serious trouble? How long she will be visiting you in the hospital and take care of you if you get into an accident or get sick? The same question with your wife is probably no brainer. With an escort you have only two responsibilities: be clean/free of STDs and to pay in full. With SB your responsibilities grow with the friendship and when they reach certain level she is not SB anymore but a girlfriend. It is more like a continuous spectrum from an SP through SB to girlfriend/wife situation. The problem is that SB relationship is kind of unstable and very difficult to maintain with the same person for a long time. So sooner than later your will have to go through a breakup which is painful. Personally, am not willing to take any responsibility for a person that don’t give a f-k about me without my money.
Patron, you nailed it with Fido. We sure deserve to die (if get broke) for the well-being of these little monsters on crooked legs :yo:
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