The truth about Asian parlors, part I by G. Higley
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Here's an excellent insider's view of the world of Asian massage parlors. Based on my own experience with Asian parlors, this guy's description is true and accurate.
[/FONT]Is there human trafficking that goes on at massage places?
Gregory Higley[FONT=&], Dated an Asian masseuse/owner for many years
[/FONT][FONT=&]quora.com
Highly unlikely.
I dated an Asian woman involved in the business for many years and had a front row seat to its internal operations. She had friends all over the country involved in the business as both masseuses and owners. We traveled a lot and met a great many of them. Why should you believe me? Well, read what I’m about to say and use a little bit of common sense.
You can be an opponent of prostitution and still upvote this post. Whatever you may think of prostitution, do you think it’s right that a whole group of people is being falsely accused of human trafficking and sex slavery?
Does prostitution go on at Asian massage parlors?
Of course. It’s mostly handjobs, not exactly a public health emergency. Did it occur at my ex-girlfriend’s place? I have no first-hand knowledge.
Since some people seem to be confused by this point, I want to stress that human trafficking and prostitution are not the same thing. The masseuses areprostitutes. They are not trafficked. That is, they participate voluntarily in prostitution in order to make money. They are not forced to do so in any way. Are there incentives that keep them in the business? Yes. But these financial incentives are no different than those that occur in my line of work: great compensation. They only seem “sinister” if you believe that prostitution is always evil and wrong, which I do not. In addition, let’s stress again what most of these women do most of the time: Handjobs.
Do the masseuses live in the spas?
Often they do, yes. This is not because they are sex slaves or indentured servants, but because they are itinerant workers. They will often work in one place for a few weeks or months, take a break, and then move on to another spa or just as often to another city or state. Why get a car and apartment if you’re only going to be in a place for a few months?
The other reason they live in the spas is because of how they prefer to work. The Asian masseuses want to work 7 days a week for several months and then take an extended break with no work at all, in which they usually travel, typically to Los Angeles or NYC. As a result, it is much easier to live where you work and simply focus on making money until you take your break.
My ex-girfriend’s masseuses did not live in her spa, because she was lucky enough to have an apartment within walking distance that she rented for their use. This is not as common an arrangement, but definitely does occur at many spas.
Are the masseuses licensed?
Usually yes. My ex-girlfriend certainly was and she only employed licensed masseuses. She was very strict about this. And finding licensed Asian masseuses (as detailed below) is pretty easy. It’s my understanding that the vast majority are licensed.
I will admit that there are some owners who play fast and loose with this, hiring unlicensed “masseuses”, but it’s fairly rare. I think it depends upon how diligent the local authorities are in checking licenses, but I can only speculate.
Who owns the spas?
Women do, almost exclusively.
I never encountered a male owner. My ex-gf told me there are a few, but they are very rare. It is not considered a business suitable for a man. If you see in the news that a man was the “owner” of a spa, he probably wasn’t. He was just the owner on paper, but in this business, the owner on paper is just a formality. In fact, a woman who owns 5 spas might list those spas with 5 different de jureowners, usually family members or very trusted friends, but she’s the de factoowner.
This is almost always a family business. It is not run by big shadowy organizations.
There’s a revolving door of owners and masseuses. My ex-gf worked for a few years at it and then bought her former boss’s spa. She then opened another in a different state. Many of her masseuses were previously owners who decided they didn’t want to do it anymore.
How are potential masseuses found?
They certainly aren’t found through a human trafficking network. They are found in the way many employees are found these days: by placing an ad. This is typically done in an Asian website based in NY. Potential masseuses respond, they have a video chat via WeChat — I’ll have more to say about WeChat below — and the usual sorts of employment negotiations occur.
If it’s a go, the masseuse flies in and is picked up at the airport. She then goes to work. If she lives in the spa, as is typical, she will leave her luggage and perhaps a few personal items with the owner. Unless of course the owner also lives in the spa, which is fairly common, too. In that case, the owner probably has a car and they will put that stuff in the trunk of her car.
You’ll often hear Flushing, NY, mentioned when the police make allegations of human trafficking. Flushing has one of the largest populations of Chinese and Koreans together in the United States, so naturally almost all masseuses pass through Flushing. My ex-gf herself lived in Flushing for nearly a year when she first arrived here many years ago.
How does the business work?
A typical door fee for an hour’s massage is $70. Out of this, the owner keeps $40 and the masseuse gets $30. Any tips she gets from the customer are hers to keep. The owner gets 0% of the tips. Let’s imagine she gives a very happy massage and the customer tips her $40, a pretty standard tip. This means she’s made $70.
At a typical place, a masseuse will see an average of 4 customers per day, so that’s $280 per day, $8,400 per month, $100,800 per year. (Because they take several long breaks, it’s likely to be less, probably at least $80,000 per year. But no matter how you slice and dice it, the masseuses make great money and have very few expenses.)
That’s a lot of money for a trafficked “sex slave”, isn’t it?
The owners often work (and sometimes even live) in their own spas. This is because they make less than the masseuses unless they do so. The owner is responsible for all of the usual business expenses: rent, electricity, internet, upkeep and maintenance, insurance, taxes, and so on. If an owner has two masseuses (very common) and each sees 4 customers each day, the owner’s gross income is $9,600 per month. But after subtracting the various expenses, it’s typically closer to $6,000 - $7,000 or so. Not terrible, but most don’t find this acceptable. So if you go into a spa with two masseuses, there’s very good odds that one of them owns it. Don’t bother asking, though, they don’t like those kinds of questions.
The incentive for an owner to work in her own spa is very strong. They can make really good money. A friend of my ex-gf looks like an Asian swimsuit model and is very, very popular. She owns her own spa and (at a guess) probably sees at least six or eight customers per day herself. In addition, she has two other masseuses that work for her. I don’t know exactly what she makes, but let’s try to guess. As the owner, she keeps the entire door fee and her tips. If she sees six customers per day (a conservative estimate), that’s $420 per day, $12,600 per month, $151,200 per year. She takes a few breaks, but not much, so let’s say it’s $130,000 per year. However, she also gets part of the door fees for her two masseuses. Let’s say they see the usual 4 per day (also a conservative estimate), so the owner gets roughly an additional $100,000 per year from them. So that’s $230,000 per year. She has to pay the upkeep for the spa, which I’ll guess is about $2,500 per month, $30,000 per year, so she’s making at least $200,000 per year. (I think she makes a good deal more.) I do know that she owned a slightly used Maserati when I met her. Sex slavery my ass.
Do the owners “push” prostitution at the spas?
Most don’t. They have a like/fear relationship with it. Remember, the owners make no money directly from handjobs. Their money comes purely from the door. But indirectly, it’s what customers expect and it’s what keeps them coming back for more.
The problem is that handjobs bring unwanted attention. I can’t tell you how many times I heard from owners about the ideal massage business: One that had a great many customers but only did massage! If you understand my description above of how this business works, this sentiment should be obvious to you.
So why don’t they just do this? After all, there’s Massage Envy. The problem is that Asian masseuses would not be happy earning the usual pay of a completely legitimate massage therapist. They want to make serious money. So if an owner tells the girls “no extras” the result is more likely to be “no masseuses”.
How’s that for standing the standard narrative on its head? We hear that the masseuses are sex slaves kept in bondage by the owners, but the truth is that it’s the masseuses themselves that drive the prostitution side of the business far more than the owners. Given my explanation of how the business works, five seconds of reflection should tell you why that is.
Of course, there are periods of heavy law enforcement activity when the spas batten down the hatches and go “only massage” for a while except with established customers.
OK, great, Greg, but maybe you’re just lying. What’s the evidence that these women are not victims of human trafficking and sex slavery?
I’m glad you asked! Ponder this question for a moment:
Do sex slaves have the latest smartphones, bank accounts at Chase (they love Chase!) with lots of saved money, Louis Vuitton handbags, kids in American colleges, and a history of travel all around the country?
Not bloody likely. You can be sure that the police and media in recent cases have not bothered to check these very obvious, easily confirmed bits of data. The police certainly have the ability to check this out after arrests have occurred. Ask yourself why they have not done so. Perhaps because it wouldn’t fit the narrative they want us to believe.
(Hint to police: When you’ve made an arrest at a spa for the heinous, unspeakable crime of giving a handjob, take a look at the model of smartphone the masseuse has. If you have the power to do so, look in her purse. You’ll find credit cards, debit cards, perhaps checkbooks, probably a good sum of cash, etc. Then ask yourself: Does it make sense that a sex slave would have these things?)
Here’s another thing to consider. WeChat is by far the most popular chat application used by Koreans and Chinese. There is in fact a vast network of owners and masseuses in this business who talk to each other on WeChat. But it is not a human trafficking network. It’s more like an informal business association. And oh boy does news travel fast on this network! If any owner tried to keep some low-paid “sex slaves” or “indentured servants” (as one very ill-informed or perhaps disingenuous sheriff in Florida has tried to claim), news of this would be on WeChat immediately.
Also, the spas are run the same way everywhere, from Alaska to Florida, from California to New York. There is a kind of template. A new masseuse does not have to be given some kind of orientation to work at a new place. She already knows how it works. If an owner diverged from this template, say by cruelly enslaving the masseuses, it would be noticed very quickly.
What about the Robert Kraft case?
Sheriff Snyder has recently admitted he has “insufficient evidence” (read: “no evidence at all”) of human trafficking in that case.
I’m not surprised and you shouldn’t be either. The women he arrested almost certainly make more money than the officers who arrested them...
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[FONT=&]
Here's an excellent insider's view of the world of Asian massage parlors. Based on my own experience with Asian parlors, this guy's description is true and accurate.
[/FONT]Is there human trafficking that goes on at massage places?
Gregory Higley[FONT=&], Dated an Asian masseuse/owner for many years
[/FONT][FONT=&]quora.com
Highly unlikely.
I dated an Asian woman involved in the business for many years and had a front row seat to its internal operations. She had friends all over the country involved in the business as both masseuses and owners. We traveled a lot and met a great many of them. Why should you believe me? Well, read what I’m about to say and use a little bit of common sense.
You can be an opponent of prostitution and still upvote this post. Whatever you may think of prostitution, do you think it’s right that a whole group of people is being falsely accused of human trafficking and sex slavery?
Does prostitution go on at Asian massage parlors?
Of course. It’s mostly handjobs, not exactly a public health emergency. Did it occur at my ex-girlfriend’s place? I have no first-hand knowledge.
Since some people seem to be confused by this point, I want to stress that human trafficking and prostitution are not the same thing. The masseuses areprostitutes. They are not trafficked. That is, they participate voluntarily in prostitution in order to make money. They are not forced to do so in any way. Are there incentives that keep them in the business? Yes. But these financial incentives are no different than those that occur in my line of work: great compensation. They only seem “sinister” if you believe that prostitution is always evil and wrong, which I do not. In addition, let’s stress again what most of these women do most of the time: Handjobs.
Do the masseuses live in the spas?
Often they do, yes. This is not because they are sex slaves or indentured servants, but because they are itinerant workers. They will often work in one place for a few weeks or months, take a break, and then move on to another spa or just as often to another city or state. Why get a car and apartment if you’re only going to be in a place for a few months?
The other reason they live in the spas is because of how they prefer to work. The Asian masseuses want to work 7 days a week for several months and then take an extended break with no work at all, in which they usually travel, typically to Los Angeles or NYC. As a result, it is much easier to live where you work and simply focus on making money until you take your break.
My ex-girfriend’s masseuses did not live in her spa, because she was lucky enough to have an apartment within walking distance that she rented for their use. This is not as common an arrangement, but definitely does occur at many spas.
Are the masseuses licensed?
Usually yes. My ex-girlfriend certainly was and she only employed licensed masseuses. She was very strict about this. And finding licensed Asian masseuses (as detailed below) is pretty easy. It’s my understanding that the vast majority are licensed.
I will admit that there are some owners who play fast and loose with this, hiring unlicensed “masseuses”, but it’s fairly rare. I think it depends upon how diligent the local authorities are in checking licenses, but I can only speculate.
Who owns the spas?
Women do, almost exclusively.
I never encountered a male owner. My ex-gf told me there are a few, but they are very rare. It is not considered a business suitable for a man. If you see in the news that a man was the “owner” of a spa, he probably wasn’t. He was just the owner on paper, but in this business, the owner on paper is just a formality. In fact, a woman who owns 5 spas might list those spas with 5 different de jureowners, usually family members or very trusted friends, but she’s the de factoowner.
This is almost always a family business. It is not run by big shadowy organizations.
There’s a revolving door of owners and masseuses. My ex-gf worked for a few years at it and then bought her former boss’s spa. She then opened another in a different state. Many of her masseuses were previously owners who decided they didn’t want to do it anymore.
How are potential masseuses found?
They certainly aren’t found through a human trafficking network. They are found in the way many employees are found these days: by placing an ad. This is typically done in an Asian website based in NY. Potential masseuses respond, they have a video chat via WeChat — I’ll have more to say about WeChat below — and the usual sorts of employment negotiations occur.
If it’s a go, the masseuse flies in and is picked up at the airport. She then goes to work. If she lives in the spa, as is typical, she will leave her luggage and perhaps a few personal items with the owner. Unless of course the owner also lives in the spa, which is fairly common, too. In that case, the owner probably has a car and they will put that stuff in the trunk of her car.
You’ll often hear Flushing, NY, mentioned when the police make allegations of human trafficking. Flushing has one of the largest populations of Chinese and Koreans together in the United States, so naturally almost all masseuses pass through Flushing. My ex-gf herself lived in Flushing for nearly a year when she first arrived here many years ago.
How does the business work?
A typical door fee for an hour’s massage is $70. Out of this, the owner keeps $40 and the masseuse gets $30. Any tips she gets from the customer are hers to keep. The owner gets 0% of the tips. Let’s imagine she gives a very happy massage and the customer tips her $40, a pretty standard tip. This means she’s made $70.
At a typical place, a masseuse will see an average of 4 customers per day, so that’s $280 per day, $8,400 per month, $100,800 per year. (Because they take several long breaks, it’s likely to be less, probably at least $80,000 per year. But no matter how you slice and dice it, the masseuses make great money and have very few expenses.)
That’s a lot of money for a trafficked “sex slave”, isn’t it?
The owners often work (and sometimes even live) in their own spas. This is because they make less than the masseuses unless they do so. The owner is responsible for all of the usual business expenses: rent, electricity, internet, upkeep and maintenance, insurance, taxes, and so on. If an owner has two masseuses (very common) and each sees 4 customers each day, the owner’s gross income is $9,600 per month. But after subtracting the various expenses, it’s typically closer to $6,000 - $7,000 or so. Not terrible, but most don’t find this acceptable. So if you go into a spa with two masseuses, there’s very good odds that one of them owns it. Don’t bother asking, though, they don’t like those kinds of questions.
The incentive for an owner to work in her own spa is very strong. They can make really good money. A friend of my ex-gf looks like an Asian swimsuit model and is very, very popular. She owns her own spa and (at a guess) probably sees at least six or eight customers per day herself. In addition, she has two other masseuses that work for her. I don’t know exactly what she makes, but let’s try to guess. As the owner, she keeps the entire door fee and her tips. If she sees six customers per day (a conservative estimate), that’s $420 per day, $12,600 per month, $151,200 per year. She takes a few breaks, but not much, so let’s say it’s $130,000 per year. However, she also gets part of the door fees for her two masseuses. Let’s say they see the usual 4 per day (also a conservative estimate), so the owner gets roughly an additional $100,000 per year from them. So that’s $230,000 per year. She has to pay the upkeep for the spa, which I’ll guess is about $2,500 per month, $30,000 per year, so she’s making at least $200,000 per year. (I think she makes a good deal more.) I do know that she owned a slightly used Maserati when I met her. Sex slavery my ass.
Do the owners “push” prostitution at the spas?
Most don’t. They have a like/fear relationship with it. Remember, the owners make no money directly from handjobs. Their money comes purely from the door. But indirectly, it’s what customers expect and it’s what keeps them coming back for more.
The problem is that handjobs bring unwanted attention. I can’t tell you how many times I heard from owners about the ideal massage business: One that had a great many customers but only did massage! If you understand my description above of how this business works, this sentiment should be obvious to you.
So why don’t they just do this? After all, there’s Massage Envy. The problem is that Asian masseuses would not be happy earning the usual pay of a completely legitimate massage therapist. They want to make serious money. So if an owner tells the girls “no extras” the result is more likely to be “no masseuses”.
How’s that for standing the standard narrative on its head? We hear that the masseuses are sex slaves kept in bondage by the owners, but the truth is that it’s the masseuses themselves that drive the prostitution side of the business far more than the owners. Given my explanation of how the business works, five seconds of reflection should tell you why that is.
Of course, there are periods of heavy law enforcement activity when the spas batten down the hatches and go “only massage” for a while except with established customers.
OK, great, Greg, but maybe you’re just lying. What’s the evidence that these women are not victims of human trafficking and sex slavery?
I’m glad you asked! Ponder this question for a moment:
Do sex slaves have the latest smartphones, bank accounts at Chase (they love Chase!) with lots of saved money, Louis Vuitton handbags, kids in American colleges, and a history of travel all around the country?
Not bloody likely. You can be sure that the police and media in recent cases have not bothered to check these very obvious, easily confirmed bits of data. The police certainly have the ability to check this out after arrests have occurred. Ask yourself why they have not done so. Perhaps because it wouldn’t fit the narrative they want us to believe.
(Hint to police: When you’ve made an arrest at a spa for the heinous, unspeakable crime of giving a handjob, take a look at the model of smartphone the masseuse has. If you have the power to do so, look in her purse. You’ll find credit cards, debit cards, perhaps checkbooks, probably a good sum of cash, etc. Then ask yourself: Does it make sense that a sex slave would have these things?)
Here’s another thing to consider. WeChat is by far the most popular chat application used by Koreans and Chinese. There is in fact a vast network of owners and masseuses in this business who talk to each other on WeChat. But it is not a human trafficking network. It’s more like an informal business association. And oh boy does news travel fast on this network! If any owner tried to keep some low-paid “sex slaves” or “indentured servants” (as one very ill-informed or perhaps disingenuous sheriff in Florida has tried to claim), news of this would be on WeChat immediately.
Also, the spas are run the same way everywhere, from Alaska to Florida, from California to New York. There is a kind of template. A new masseuse does not have to be given some kind of orientation to work at a new place. She already knows how it works. If an owner diverged from this template, say by cruelly enslaving the masseuses, it would be noticed very quickly.
What about the Robert Kraft case?
Sheriff Snyder has recently admitted he has “insufficient evidence” (read: “no evidence at all”) of human trafficking in that case.
I’m not surprised and you shouldn’t be either. The women he arrested almost certainly make more money than the officers who arrested them...
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