Permanent NHL Free For All Thread
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The future is far brighter for the Oilers than it is for the Leafs.
Come to think of it, the PRESENT is far better for the Oilers (9 points in 9 games) than it is for the woeful Leafs (7 points in 8 games).
And now that you mention it, the PAST is also far, FAR better for the Oilers (5 Cups in their short NHL history, all within the past 3 decades) than it is for the miserable Leafs (ZERO Cups in the last 47 YEARS!).
Come to think of it, the PRESENT is far better for the Oilers (9 points in 9 games) than it is for the woeful Leafs (7 points in 8 games).
And now that you mention it, the PAST is also far, FAR better for the Oilers (5 Cups in their short NHL history, all within the past 3 decades) than it is for the miserable Leafs (ZERO Cups in the last 47 YEARS!).
The Leafs beat Buffalo 4-0 the other night and - miracle of miracles - Toronto actually even outshot (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) its opponent (37-10). Now, THAT is a rarity for the Leafs.
Needless to say, this led to several posts in the "no truth allowed" thread (a thread that has had precious little action for most of the Leafs' wretched season so far).
No wonder Leaf fans are so excited: Buffalo is NOT the worst team in the league! No sir, it stands a PROUD 29th out of 30, with a GREAT record so far of 2-8-0.
Yes, sports fans, the mighty Sabres have already managed to win 2 out of 10 games, to hang on to that precious 29th place.
In their 10 games, the Sabres have scored a whopping total of 11 goals and have had only 33 scored against them, for a goal differential of MINUS 22 after 10 games.
After beating a team of this amazing quality, it is no wonder that the Leafs and their fans are truly excited and perhaps even contemplating a Cup in 2015! (Unfortunately, given that the Leafs ROT at hockey but ALWAYS hit the golf course as EARLY as possible , they probably have a better chance at the RYDER Cup than the STANLEY Cup).
Needless to say, this led to several posts in the "no truth allowed" thread (a thread that has had precious little action for most of the Leafs' wretched season so far).
No wonder Leaf fans are so excited: Buffalo is NOT the worst team in the league! No sir, it stands a PROUD 29th out of 30, with a GREAT record so far of 2-8-0.
Yes, sports fans, the mighty Sabres have already managed to win 2 out of 10 games, to hang on to that precious 29th place.
In their 10 games, the Sabres have scored a whopping total of 11 goals and have had only 33 scored against them, for a goal differential of MINUS 22 after 10 games.
After beating a team of this amazing quality, it is no wonder that the Leafs and their fans are truly excited and perhaps even contemplating a Cup in 2015! (Unfortunately, given that the Leafs ROT at hockey but ALWAYS hit the golf course as EARLY as possible , they probably have a better chance at the RYDER Cup than the STANLEY Cup).
Toronto fans are probably high as a kite with their team on a fabulous two game winning streak.
Let's examine these wins:
The first win was against the 29th place Buffalo Sabres - see previous post for details.
The second win was against the 27th place Columbus Blue Jackets. Columbus was missing EIGHT regulars, including their best goalie. Columbus STILL outshot Toronto, albeit in a losing cause.
For a Datsyuk vs. Kessel comparison (although, as the WORLD knows, there is really NO comparison between the Magic Man and the...Invisible Man), see the other hockey thread.
Let's examine these wins:
The first win was against the 29th place Buffalo Sabres - see previous post for details.
The second win was against the 27th place Columbus Blue Jackets. Columbus was missing EIGHT regulars, including their best goalie. Columbus STILL outshot Toronto, albeit in a losing cause.
For a Datsyuk vs. Kessel comparison (although, as the WORLD knows, there is really NO comparison between the Magic Man and the...Invisible Man), see the other hockey thread.
As expected, with the Leafs on a 2 game winning streak, their fans are again posting.
There is some great humor in the "no truth allowed" thread but since we're not allowed to refute anything in THAT thread, let's talk here in this "truth DEFINITELY allowed" thread.
One comment in the other thread praises Phil Kessel. It says "What a steal for the Leafs. Brian Burke should have been sent to prison for committing such a one-sided heist."
Now let's check the FACTS. In essence (although there were some other factors also - all in Boston's favor!) Burke got Kessel for what turned out to be Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton.
This year so far in 10 games Kessel has 6 goals, 7 assists, 13 points. Seguin, currently leading the league in scoring, and also in 10 games has 7 goals, 8 assist, 15 points - better in all areas.
Kessel has 2 hits and 5 blocked shots. Seguin has 6 hits and 5 blocked shots - better in one area, the same in the other.
Kessel has 14 (!!!!!!) GIVEAWAYS and 3 takeaways. Seguin has 3 giveaways and 5 takeaways - better in both areas.
Kessel doesn't do faceoffs, Seguin does (50% winning percentage). Advantage to Seguin (more versatile).
Seguin at 22 is half a decade younger than Kessel. Advantage to Seguin.
Basically Seguin is FAR better than Kessel already and has a FAR better future upside also.
And in ADDITION to that there's Dougie Hamilton - about the same young age as Seguin and another likely superstar-to-be.
And yet the "no truth allowed" thread claims that BURKE "committed a heist"! Hilarious!
There is some great humor in the "no truth allowed" thread but since we're not allowed to refute anything in THAT thread, let's talk here in this "truth DEFINITELY allowed" thread.
One comment in the other thread praises Phil Kessel. It says "What a steal for the Leafs. Brian Burke should have been sent to prison for committing such a one-sided heist."
Now let's check the FACTS. In essence (although there were some other factors also - all in Boston's favor!) Burke got Kessel for what turned out to be Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton.
This year so far in 10 games Kessel has 6 goals, 7 assists, 13 points. Seguin, currently leading the league in scoring, and also in 10 games has 7 goals, 8 assist, 15 points - better in all areas.
Kessel has 2 hits and 5 blocked shots. Seguin has 6 hits and 5 blocked shots - better in one area, the same in the other.
Kessel has 14 (!!!!!!) GIVEAWAYS and 3 takeaways. Seguin has 3 giveaways and 5 takeaways - better in both areas.
Kessel doesn't do faceoffs, Seguin does (50% winning percentage). Advantage to Seguin (more versatile).
Seguin at 22 is half a decade younger than Kessel. Advantage to Seguin.
Basically Seguin is FAR better than Kessel already and has a FAR better future upside also.
And in ADDITION to that there's Dougie Hamilton - about the same young age as Seguin and another likely superstar-to-be.
And yet the "no truth allowed" thread claims that BURKE "committed a heist"! Hilarious!
Another laugh from the "no truth allowed" thread:
It mentions how the eternally very fragile Joffrey Lupul is out of the lineup due to breaking his hand in practice. It then says "Unfortunate, since he had recently been playing fantastic hockey".
Well, maybe so, IF this is a LEAF definition of "fantastic hockey": In 9 games this season Lupul has a paltry 2 goals and 1 assist for a grand total of 3 points. In 9 games he's MINUS 2. Fantastic!
It mentions how the eternally very fragile Joffrey Lupul is out of the lineup due to breaking his hand in practice. It then says "Unfortunate, since he had recently been playing fantastic hockey".
Well, maybe so, IF this is a LEAF definition of "fantastic hockey": In 9 games this season Lupul has a paltry 2 goals and 1 assist for a grand total of 3 points. In 9 games he's MINUS 2. Fantastic!
sounds like village idiot #1 has been hitting the blue&white kool aid a little too hard
The Leafs beat the Hawks 3-2 last night and as expected the leaflovers are filling the "no truth allowed" thread with praise for their beloved Leafs.
Of course this happens here EVERY year. Before the season starts the leaflovers bray about how great their team is and how things will be different "this year". When the Leafs fluke off a few victories the leaflovers laugh, brag, praise their pylons and invisible men, and badmouth all the other teams in the league. Then - when reality INVARIABLY sets in and the Leafs fall into the toilet - the leaflovers VANISH from the hockey threads, unable to face the truth.
As for the "win" over Chicago: Chicago IS a quality team...but it hasn't played anywhere NEAR its potential so far this season. In fact right now Chicago is in the same spot as the Leafs of all teams (!) which conclusively PROVES that the Hawks are nowhere near reaching their stride.
Furthermore Chicago TOTALLY OUTPLAYED the Leafs but James Reimer saved the sorry asses of his hopeless teammates - as he did many times last year. Despite that, his coach (the guy who can't figure out how to use a toaster) has never given him respect, the classless Leaf fans have humiliated him AND his wife, and even the leaflovers on MERB have 1)called him the "backup goalie", 2)have frequently pointed out his faults and weaknesses, and 3)have requested that he be traded (along with the very delicate and fragile Joffrey Lupul).
Chicago OUTSHOT THE HOPELESS LEAFS 47-27!!!! Chicago had 26 shots in the third period alone...just one less than the pathetic Leafs had in the entire game!
This is EXACTLY what happened last year! The Leafs were constantly outplayed and outshot but their goalies often saved them...until later in the season when the entire team collapsed......
LOSING 12 OF THEIR LAST 14 games and finishing a dismal 23RD IN THE LEAGUE.
This is also why this pathetic franchise has FAILED to win a Cup...or even make it to the finals....in 47 YEARS of complete and utter failure.
It's why the Leafs have NEVER won more than 2 rounds in the playoffs and it's the reason why they gutlessly folded in the first round (with the most epic collapse in the entire history of Stanley Cup game sevens) on the ONE SINGLE occasion that they made the playoffs in the last freakin' decade.
Yet EVERY year our deluded leaflovers spout off their nonsense until the truth becomes unavoidable...at which point they run and hide.
This year is obviously no different.
Intelligent hockey fans cannot WAIT for the inevitable Leaf collapse again this year.
Of course this happens here EVERY year. Before the season starts the leaflovers bray about how great their team is and how things will be different "this year". When the Leafs fluke off a few victories the leaflovers laugh, brag, praise their pylons and invisible men, and badmouth all the other teams in the league. Then - when reality INVARIABLY sets in and the Leafs fall into the toilet - the leaflovers VANISH from the hockey threads, unable to face the truth.
As for the "win" over Chicago: Chicago IS a quality team...but it hasn't played anywhere NEAR its potential so far this season. In fact right now Chicago is in the same spot as the Leafs of all teams (!) which conclusively PROVES that the Hawks are nowhere near reaching their stride.
Furthermore Chicago TOTALLY OUTPLAYED the Leafs but James Reimer saved the sorry asses of his hopeless teammates - as he did many times last year. Despite that, his coach (the guy who can't figure out how to use a toaster) has never given him respect, the classless Leaf fans have humiliated him AND his wife, and even the leaflovers on MERB have 1)called him the "backup goalie", 2)have frequently pointed out his faults and weaknesses, and 3)have requested that he be traded (along with the very delicate and fragile Joffrey Lupul).
Chicago OUTSHOT THE HOPELESS LEAFS 47-27!!!! Chicago had 26 shots in the third period alone...just one less than the pathetic Leafs had in the entire game!
This is EXACTLY what happened last year! The Leafs were constantly outplayed and outshot but their goalies often saved them...until later in the season when the entire team collapsed......
LOSING 12 OF THEIR LAST 14 games and finishing a dismal 23RD IN THE LEAGUE.
This is also why this pathetic franchise has FAILED to win a Cup...or even make it to the finals....in 47 YEARS of complete and utter failure.
It's why the Leafs have NEVER won more than 2 rounds in the playoffs and it's the reason why they gutlessly folded in the first round (with the most epic collapse in the entire history of Stanley Cup game sevens) on the ONE SINGLE occasion that they made the playoffs in the last freakin' decade.
Yet EVERY year our deluded leaflovers spout off their nonsense until the truth becomes unavoidable...at which point they run and hide.
This year is obviously no different.
Intelligent hockey fans cannot WAIT for the inevitable Leaf collapse again this year.
What a crazy weekend of hockey results!
Chicago dominated the Leafs as expected (outshooting them 47-27) but James Reimer had a great game and saved the Leafs.
Detroit dominated the Sabres as expected (outshooting them 38-21) but Michal Neuvirth had a great game and saved the Sabres. (It also didn't help that the Wings AGAIN had a goal waved off - the third time this season. This time the goal would have won it for Detroit. Instead it went to a shootout - NOT Jimmy Howard's strong point.) Oh well - at least Detroit got a point and Datsyuk was great as usual. Anyway, full congratulations to the Sabres. I hope they can now turn the corner and end up passing Toronto in the standings although that is unfortunately not very likely, because as bad as Toronto is, Buffalo is possibly even worse.
The third crazy result is not yet official but last I looked Calgary (!!!!!!) was beating Montreal.
Three INSANE results this weekend just go to prove that any team can win once in a while even against far stronger opposition. Fortunately for the good teams, quality is evident after 82 games because three fluke results like the ones mentioned just DON'T happen often enough to skew the final results.
Chicago dominated the Leafs as expected (outshooting them 47-27) but James Reimer had a great game and saved the Leafs.
Detroit dominated the Sabres as expected (outshooting them 38-21) but Michal Neuvirth had a great game and saved the Sabres. (It also didn't help that the Wings AGAIN had a goal waved off - the third time this season. This time the goal would have won it for Detroit. Instead it went to a shootout - NOT Jimmy Howard's strong point.) Oh well - at least Detroit got a point and Datsyuk was great as usual. Anyway, full congratulations to the Sabres. I hope they can now turn the corner and end up passing Toronto in the standings although that is unfortunately not very likely, because as bad as Toronto is, Buffalo is possibly even worse.
The third crazy result is not yet official but last I looked Calgary (!!!!!!) was beating Montreal.
Three INSANE results this weekend just go to prove that any team can win once in a while even against far stronger opposition. Fortunately for the good teams, quality is evident after 82 games because three fluke results like the ones mentioned just DON'T happen often enough to skew the final results.
I rarely bet on hockey, but how can one resist betting against a hockey team which managed to get smashed in their own rink by a bunch of golfers the preceding night?
When I placed the wager, I didn't even realize that the Bruins had 3 significant players missing due to injury.
When I placed the wager, I didn't even realize that the Bruins had 3 significant players missing due to injury.
You are right, of course, the Bruins did, in fact, play in TO last night. A lucky mistake on my part as it motivated me to bet against them tonight.
You do realize that the Bruins have been playing better without those players, so your wager made good sense. They had won 6 consecutive prior to facing the Leafs on Wednesday night.
I know Chara & Kreci are missing, but who's the third 'significant' player missing?
I agree. Now i'm thinking maybe the Bruins should have come back with Tukka Rask against the habs. By benching him for last night's game after he had barely played a period against the Leafs the previous night, now he's got it inside his head that the team has lost faith in him whenever they'll be facing the habs in the future.
As for the Bruins, even though they had been playing great without the likes of Chara, Kreci and Krug in their lineup, i'm sure the loss of Chara's leadership isn't helping. I heard last week that he may have to go under the knife. I haven't heard any updates since.
But the Bruins seem like a different team from the one they had in past years. No doubt the loss of Thornton, Iginla and Boychuck have hurt the team. I can't see Simon Gagne helping that team much. He was once a very good player, but injuries have left him a permanently damaged player.
The backup goalie played well against Toronto, but he couldn't match his previous game's success against the habs last night.
Were a serious injury happen to Tukka Rask, it could be time for the Bruins to thrown in the white flag and consider trades to boost the team up for next season.
The bear was hurt, the bear was tired ! The Habs had only to put pressure on the D and the bear felt to the ice! Tukka never had any luck against the habs so there is no point on putting him in last night . The future of the bear is in their young players hopping that the trade do Tyler is going to pay . Sekac what a beautiful young player that is not afraid and he could give us 20 goals this year , that's why Bourque sadly is not coming back !
The so-called "Tyler" trade will never pay. The main reason for this is that if you are a believer of the 'Sam Pollock' rule where the team who gets the better player is the winner of a trade, none of the players they got from Dallas for Tyler Seguin will come close to be as good as he is and will be.
The 'Tyler Seguin' trade may one day be regarded as being as worse as the 'Joe Thornton' trade. These types of bad trades often wind up hurting a franchise or slowing its progress for years. What counters that lack of progress are other trades that wind up being heavily in that team's favor. Getting Tuuka Rask from Toronto in exchange for Andrew Raycroft was the type of deal that sometimes saves a franchise. It was a trade that lessened the impact of the awful Joe Thornton trade with San Jose. As awful as the Thornton trade was for the Bruins, it turned things around in San Jose & from that day made it a model franchise who competed year after year since the trade.
Another trade that lessened the impact of the Thornton trade was getting Zdeno Chara from Ottawa. Chara was among the league's top defensemen for several years once that trade was made. Ottawa chose to keep Wade Redden & let Chara go. They couldn't afford to pay both at the time. Ottawa could have been one of the league's top franchises for a decade had they chose to keep Chara over Redden.
I won't pin the blame for the Kessel trade solely on Peter Chiarelli. They couldn't come to terms with Kessel and felt they'd be overpaying him if they gave in to his demands. His situation was similar to P.K. Subban's situation a couple of years ago where he refused to sign a bridge contract, preferring to hold out for a multi year contract. They both played chicken and Mtl wound up winning by signing him to a bridge contract. However, 20/20 hindsight now shows us that had they chosen to give in to Subban's demands at the time, he would have wound up being a bargain for them instead of now having to pay him $72 million for 8 years.
We also now realize that Kessel would have been a bargain for them had they chosen to sign him to a long-term contract instead of a bridge contract, which they wanted. But they weren't sure how good Kessel would become, plus the fact he was just getting over a battle with cancer. Boston did the best it could by finding a team who wanted Kessel in exchange for two first-round picks and a second-rounder. The players they wound up drafting were Tyler Seguin, Doug Hamilton & Jared Knight. They gave up on Seguin with two years, Hamilton will be a pretty good defenceman (but the Leafs never would have drafted hiim), and i've never heard of Jared Knight.
Seguin likely would have been a disaster in hockey-crazy Toronto (his hometown on top of that) due to his immaturity and the Leafs likely would have wound up trading him like Boston did. But there is no way Boston will ever come out winning the trade they made with Dallas. Seguin is and will always be the best player of that group, period. But if Seguin really had to be moved, Peter Chiarelli did the best he could considering the circumstances. The players he got from Dallas were decent players. But did he give up on Seguin too soon? Who knows. Playing in Dallas is quite different than playing in the limelight of party-town Boston. If Seguin becomes a superstar in Dallas, it doesn't mean that he would have been the same player in Boston for the reasons i mentionned.
The 'Tyler Seguin' trade may one day be regarded as being as worse as the 'Joe Thornton' trade. These types of bad trades often wind up hurting a franchise or slowing its progress for years. What counters that lack of progress are other trades that wind up being heavily in that team's favor. Getting Tuuka Rask from Toronto in exchange for Andrew Raycroft was the type of deal that sometimes saves a franchise. It was a trade that lessened the impact of the awful Joe Thornton trade with San Jose. As awful as the Thornton trade was for the Bruins, it turned things around in San Jose & from that day made it a model franchise who competed year after year since the trade.
Another trade that lessened the impact of the Thornton trade was getting Zdeno Chara from Ottawa. Chara was among the league's top defensemen for several years once that trade was made. Ottawa chose to keep Wade Redden & let Chara go. They couldn't afford to pay both at the time. Ottawa could have been one of the league's top franchises for a decade had they chose to keep Chara over Redden.
I won't pin the blame for the Kessel trade solely on Peter Chiarelli. They couldn't come to terms with Kessel and felt they'd be overpaying him if they gave in to his demands. His situation was similar to P.K. Subban's situation a couple of years ago where he refused to sign a bridge contract, preferring to hold out for a multi year contract. They both played chicken and Mtl wound up winning by signing him to a bridge contract. However, 20/20 hindsight now shows us that had they chosen to give in to Subban's demands at the time, he would have wound up being a bargain for them instead of now having to pay him $72 million for 8 years.
We also now realize that Kessel would have been a bargain for them had they chosen to sign him to a long-term contract instead of a bridge contract, which they wanted. But they weren't sure how good Kessel would become, plus the fact he was just getting over a battle with cancer. Boston did the best it could by finding a team who wanted Kessel in exchange for two first-round picks and a second-rounder. The players they wound up drafting were Tyler Seguin, Doug Hamilton & Jared Knight. They gave up on Seguin with two years, Hamilton will be a pretty good defenceman (but the Leafs never would have drafted hiim), and i've never heard of Jared Knight.
Seguin likely would have been a disaster in hockey-crazy Toronto (his hometown on top of that) due to his immaturity and the Leafs likely would have wound up trading him like Boston did. But there is no way Boston will ever come out winning the trade they made with Dallas. Seguin is and will always be the best player of that group, period. But if Seguin really had to be moved, Peter Chiarelli did the best he could considering the circumstances. The players he got from Dallas were decent players. But did he give up on Seguin too soon? Who knows. Playing in Dallas is quite different than playing in the limelight of party-town Boston. If Seguin becomes a superstar in Dallas, it doesn't mean that he would have been the same player in Boston for the reasons i mentionned.
I meant Miller, but Krug is also a non-trivial loss. The Bruins don't have much left on defense.
BOYZ,
I don't know why honest hockey talk is in the free-for-all section.
Seguin's first year with Boston was pretty solid. The team, analysts, and fans were pretty excited about him. He showed a lot of skill and development promise. Then in the later half of his second year you could see a steady slacking off. Reports of all sorts about his became more common, and that's not including complaining fans. It became evident that he wasn't becoming a professional hockey player, he was acting like Hockey was becoming secondary to being a party boy. As the playoffs progressed he became more and more like a non-entity, and a huge disappointment. The team, analysts, and fans were generally disgusted with him. Still, to trade a guy with talent like that must have been last resort. There must have been a persistence of serious issues for him to be dealt.
And yes, the adoration Toronto would have given him would have encourage him to reinforce a very poor attitude he had at the time. It's good to see he may have grown up and become a "professional".
Now the Bruins have lost three solid veterans and three more key players among other injured players. Altogether it's a dramatic change in the last two seasons that a few promising young player cannot make up for any time soon.
Merlot
I don't know why honest hockey talk is in the free-for-all section.
Seguin's first year with Boston was pretty solid. The team, analysts, and fans were pretty excited about him. He showed a lot of skill and development promise. Then in the later half of his second year you could see a steady slacking off. Reports of all sorts about his became more common, and that's not including complaining fans. It became evident that he wasn't becoming a professional hockey player, he was acting like Hockey was becoming secondary to being a party boy. As the playoffs progressed he became more and more like a non-entity, and a huge disappointment. The team, analysts, and fans were generally disgusted with him. Still, to trade a guy with talent like that must have been last resort. There must have been a persistence of serious issues for him to be dealt.
And yes, the adoration Toronto would have given him would have encourage him to reinforce a very poor attitude he had at the time. It's good to see he may have grown up and become a "professional".
Now the Bruins have lost three solid veterans and three more key players among other injured players. Altogether it's a dramatic change in the last two seasons that a few promising young player cannot make up for any time soon.
Merlot
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