Preface to an Expose

[eastender]

My Points.............

Wait a minute. He`s already admitted to being a driver for a SP agency. Please tell me how this has not coloured his view? Also, we have independent testimony of a respected reviewers reference what one called his obsessive nature: https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=402775#post402775 & https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=402707#post402707

No problem on the rest of your post. But do try to be accurate, especially within the thread: See SL`s original post in this thread: https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=396837#post396837 Please do not impeach your own accuracy.

My points exactly. Knew SL was driving BEFORE his admission. Never claimed it would not colour his view BUT it will contribute the insight of a driver. Just as other works by former SPs provided insight from their admitted perspective.

Didn`t need the independent testimony of a respected reviewer - your words, to realize that SL was meticulous with an eye for detail that pointed in the direction of an obsession.

As for the seminal post, I take it for what it is - a bit of promotional puffery with a hook to get our attention.

Again distance is making you fear the unknown. In Montreal the issues you raise are simply factored in or out depending on what may be written by SL.

 

[eastender]

Character

Yeah right!

Of course anyone except his most anxious defenders realizes instantly that even 1000 years of "experience" in the hobby scene has absolutely nothing to do with character, or any other possible inner qualities. If it is true that SL is so close to one of his best sources that he can put her on his lap and call her "my bitch" publicly in front of many who know her...then the dubious quality of his integrity regarding bias toward such sources is pretty obvious to anyone but those in purposeful denial.



AND, I happen to know this is a boldface lie...as it turns out since he wrote this declaration.

tsk tsk tsk,

Merlot

Merlot,

As for character, try quoting my posts completely and accurately.

Again - the incident you refer to is a very small segment of time when compared to well over thirty years of experiences in Montreal. Any event that pre-dates the arrival of the female in question from south of the border is stand alone in nature.

As for defending SL, you conveniently overlook my constant digs at SL that his knowledge is limited to a very small area of the overall Montreal or provincial scene.

Again let him post his work and those in a position to comment in a relevent fashion will most certainly do so.

 

[CS Martin]

You keep proving my point about the accuracy of your very own posts. First you say his prospective is that of a client in your post #116 above. Here let me remind you:

SL has over thirty years of experience in the Montreal scene. He can discuss in detail and with insight people and places that have long disappeared from the Montreal landscape. True his perceptions, as any authors, are coloured by his role. His view of an SC is that of a client whereas my view may be that of a former employee,friend of the ownership, respected competitor, etc. All views would contribute to the overall picture.

and you seriously damage your objectivity by admitting your close association with him above

My points exactly. Knew SL was driving BEFORE his admission. Never claimed it would not colour his view BUT it will contribute the insight of a driver. Just as other works by former SPs provided insight from their admitted perspective.

Didn't need the independent testimony of a respected reviewer - your words, to realize that SL was meticulous with an eye for detail that pointed in the direction of an obsession.

As for the seminal post, I take it for what it is - a bit of promotional puffery with a hook to get our attention.

Again distance is making you fear the unknown. In Montreal the issues you raise are simply factored in or out depending on what may be written by SL.

Then you try and distance yourself by proclaiming he said he was a driver the whole time, yet you proclaim his is the view of a client only in post #116.

Again, please try and keep your arguments in this debate clear, at least in the same thread. It impeached your credibility.

 

[Techman]

...

If it is true that SL is so close to one of his best sources that he can put her on his lap and call her "my bitch" publicly in front of many who know her...then the dubious quality of his integrity regarding bias toward such sources is pretty obvious to anyone but those in purposeful denial. ...

Amazing that while you have so much doubt in anything that SL may post you have so much faith in what Ziggy/10-19 happens to recount. Is there anyone here that can back up what he posted? Has anyone even questioned what he posted or is he incapable of putting his own spin on things?

As far as him having been a driver ...well I would think that would have given him an insight into what happens behind the scenes that most hobbyists never come even close to knowing. No matter what your favorite girl may tell you and no matter how much you want to believe she's telling you the truth.

 

[eastender]

Simple English.....................

You keep proving my point about the accuracy of your very own posts. First you say his prospective is that of a client in your post #116 above. Here let me remind you:



and you seriously damage your objectivity by admitting your close association with him above




Then you try and distance yourself by proclaiming he said he was a driver the whole time, yet you proclaim his is the view of a client only in post #116.

Again, please try and keep your arguments in this debate clear, at least in the same thread. It impeached your credibility.

In post #116 I refer to SL's experiences in SCs as a client which overlap with my experiences in the period from the early /mid70's to the early 1980's working as an SC bouncer. As such there was no association BUT there was commonality from the standpoint of people who frequented, owned and worked in the clubs that crossed our paths. Consequently any inaccuracies in SLs writings would be presented

I NEVER claimed he was a driver the whole time. I simply stated that I KNEW that he was driving for the agency in question before SL admitted the fact.

To use your favourite expression - Munchkin, if this is a prime example of your ability to read and reason then it is time to retire.

 

[CS Martin]

In post #116 I refer to SL's experiences in SCs as a client which overlap with my experiences in the period from the early /mid70's to the early 1980's working as an SC bouncer. As such there was no association BUT there was commonality from the standpoint of people who frequented, owned and worked in the clubs that crossed our paths. Consequently any inaccuracies in SLs writings would be presented

I NEVER claimed he was a driver the whole time. I simply stated that I KNEW that he was driving for the agency in question before SL admitted the fact.

To use your favourite expression - Munchkin, if this is a prime example of your ability to read and reason then it is time to retire.

Allow me to repost your #116:

SL has over thirty years of experience in the Montreal scene. He can discuss in detail and with insight people and places that have long disappeared from the Montreal landscape. True his perceptions, as any authors, are coloured by his role. His view of an SC is that of a client whereas my view may be that of a former employee,friend of the ownership, respected competitor, etc. All views would contribute to the overall picture.

I do not expect completeness. Just a contribution where the various elements may be judged on their merits.

I've highlighted your statement above in red. I'm not impeaching the facts, merely SL's proponent of same. I'm merely cautioning the reader to look hard at the debaters here. You have a habit of not being complete and accurate in your postings, thereby possibly misleading the reader. Yes, I'm impeaching your credibility.

But Munchkin, I've got an early day tomorrow, so you keep on wasting your breath. Consider that maybe rest will help you be clearer tomorrow.

 

[Doc Holliday]

November 2006.

Time flies!

 

[Merlot]

Amazing that while you have so much doubt in anything that SL may post you have so much faith in what Ziggy/10-19 happens to recount. Is there anyone here that can back up what he posted? Has anyone even questioned what he posted or is he incapable of putting his own spin on things?

As far as him having been a driver ...well I would think that would have given him an insight into what happens behind the scenes that most hobbyists never come even close to knowing. No matter what your favorite girl may tell you and no matter how much you want to believe she's telling you the truth.

Hello Techman,

The more experience one has the better chances of insight one can have. But the ability to communicate any insight is another matter. Surely you realize that like Toxi/10-19, me, you, or anyone there is the element of how individuals perceive events; a possible trap...much less any possible degree of a pre-existing of bias. Of course the presence of any possible personal perceptual deficiencies doesn't mean a person can't be truthful and/or unbiased. But, when the author talks about the "evil" when referring to those in the hobby and was himself a driver delivering the ladies to such risky situations I will note the hypocrisy. When the author imposes himself through emails and other communications on those who do not wish to be involved, and persists in what amounts to harassment, I question his character. And when the author lies about staying away from the boards to imply he is keeping himself away from any possible taint of influence, when I know he hasn't done that, I question his honesty.

As for "Ziggy", I am sure you noticed the way I wrote the post indicating the possibility Toxi/10-19 may not have recalled the event accurately, or may possibly not have been truthful. That is possible with anyone. But we all make choices about who to believe. And, that is also the big problem for SL. He has to make those choices too, and having been so heavily involved in the hobby for "30 years" I don't see how he can make those choices with detached integrity, especially when we know that many members make friendships or alliances with certain cliques on the boards with agendas on all sides. This expose is going to be based on the stories and views of many hobbyists. The information from those sources are going to depend on how honest his sources are and how well he can tell the difference. Then, YOU and I both know some of those sources WILL be purposely deceitful since we are both well aware of the "character" of some he no doubt uses as "sources"...those we have seen for so long and so frequently bitching about so many things openly...and themselves scheming. None of that depends on 10-19.

Truly,

M

 

[Techman]

Merlot,

Where does he mention evil in respect with the hobby? The line he closes his post with is just a tag line he uses. Why don't you just Google it.

You also say that 'you know' he hasn't been staying away from the boards. I wonder how you can make such a statement unless you have looked over his shoulder while he was reading the boards. And since when is sending someone an email considered harrassement? Damn, I have hundreds of people harrassing me every week if that is the case! Good luck proving either of those points.

You are usually a poster that I enjoy debating with but in this thread you seem to have such a big problem with a person that you have never once met that I am beginning to question your motives. Exactly whose agenda are you promoting here because it sure as hell can't be your own.

Would you judge a film you haven't seen or a song you haven't heard or a wine you haven't tasted? Somehow I don't think so.

But here you are judging a person you've never met and something you haven't read. That is beneath you and I must say that you have lost some respect in my eyes.

Techman

 

[Merlot]

Merlot,

But here you are judging a person you've never met and something you haven't read. That is beneath you and I must say that you have lost some respect in my eyes.

Techman

Well Techman,

I can see and read what he has been doing, and though it may be a small matter, when someone sends me a pretty angry lecture because I passed on his "request" to provide information to him, I get some idea of who he is. Besides, I don't see where I have made a real final judgment on the expose. I have cited my own firm reasons why I think the sources he must use to make such a comprehensive expose are basically very dubious. If he was simply going to write about his own experiences, instead of insisting he will expose others, we could all simply accept the work as a personal perception or experience.

Hmmm,

Merlot

 

[Techman]

Well Techman,

I can see and read what he has been doing, and though it may be a small matter, when someone sends me a pretty angry lecture because I passed on his "request" to provide information to him, I get some idea of who he is. Besides, I don't see where I have made a real judgment on the expose. I have cited my own reasons why I think the sources he must use to make such a comprehensive expose are basically very dubious. If he was simply going to write about his own experiences, instead of insisting he will expose others, we could all simply accept the work as a personal perception.

Hmmm,

Merlot

Read and see what he has been doing? He made ONE post on the boards in what...three years? Do you have some special power I don't know about? Do you have access to posts he never made or have you hired a PI to follow him around?

And how do you know that the entire thing won't be based on his own experiences? I don't know about you but usually a person's experiences involve other people. Or would you prefer that everything he writes about be simply stated as Miss X and Mister Y?

I find it laughable that people who use invented handles and SPs who use false names actually think that anything he writes would mean anything to anyone other than those who read the boards. Besides all anyone has to do is jump over to merc and change their handle and no one will know anyways. It isn't like posters aren't doing that now anyways.

 

[eastender]

Your Knowledge

Allow me to repost your #116:


I've highlighted your statement above in red. I'm not impeaching the facts, merely SL's proponent of same. I'm merely cautioning the reader to look hard at the debaters here. You have a habit of not being complete and accurate in your postings, thereby possibly misleading the reader. Yes, I'm impeaching your credibility.

But Munchkin, I've got an early day tomorrow, so you keep on wasting your breath. Consider that maybe rest will help you be clearer tomorrow.

All that you are impeaching is your limited knowledge about the Montreal scene. Other than you, nobody else amongst the various board members has been mislead.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

I met SL on two different occasions, i got along well with him. He seemed passionate about the hobby and his expose. As a matter of fact a couple of times i had to ask him to keep it down as i did not want other people over hearing what we were talking about. Like Doc my money is on him eventually releasing it, but it has reached a point in time where he needs to put up or shut up.

I remember one Sunday morning a few years back. I was at breakfast with SL and EB at a crowded family resto in the Plateau. The two of them were discussing the whole sex biz in general and certain girls in particular, paying little heed to either the volume of the voices nor the people at surrounding tables. (And you can imagine how loud two people can speak when they're trying to speak over each other, neither capable of stopping to listen for so much as a second, as was the case with these two.) It was one of the more embarrassing moments of my life.

Another side note here. I would think that the last person whom one would trust with an "expose" is one incapable of listening to anything but the sound of his own voice.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

2) Banger it's interesting that you should mention SL's obsession with me, since I've long understood this to be true. Please make it clear that you and I have never communicated about this matter.

SL was not obsessed with you, CS. His obsession was over one of Celine's girls, now long since retired. I remember one evening, now two years ago, and some 8 months after this young woman had retired from the business. It was a Friday evening around 8 PM. SL called me at my home and demanded that I meet him, a demand to which I foolishly assented.

Some 30 minutes later, we met at a pub on Duluth, near St. Denis. We sat down, I ordered a beer, SL ordered dinner. And then the tirade began. He launched into this young woman, warning me against her in a near frenzy, his eyes wild. I expected him to begin frothing at the mouth.

I wondered the reason for this meeting. There was certainly no love lost between me and SL, that's for certain. He wasn't warning me for my benefit. No, his only possible rationale was to hurt her, this young woman with whom he'd been obsessed for over a year.

No, I wouldn't believe a word he'd write. You can certainly expect that this so-called expose, should it ever surface, will be promulgated solely for the purpose of serving its author.

 

[CS Martin]

All that you are impeaching is your limited knowledge about the Montreal scene. Other than you, nobody else amongst the various board members has been mislead.

I give you the last word last night and that's the best you can do? Instead of standing your ground and defending your argument you come up with the above? OK, your assignment for the balance of the day is to try and do better. I'll try and see if I can check on your homework this evening.

 

[eastender]

Oxymoron

I remember one Sunday morning a few years back. I was at breakfast with SL and EB at a crowded family resto in the Plateau. The two of them were discussing the whole sex biz in general and certain girls in particular, paying little heed to either the volume of the voices nor the people at surrounding tables. (And you can imagine how loud two people can speak when they're trying to speak over each other, neither capable of stopping to listen for so much as a second, as was the case with these two.) It was one of the more embarrassing moments of my life.

Another side note here. I would think that the last person whom one would trust with an "expose" is one incapable of listening to anything but the sound of his own voice.

Thanks for adding another oxymoron, ".......... trust with an "expose" ........."

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

I have met SL a number of times, sometimes scheduled, sometimes by chance. We've talked for hours or for minutes. Regardless it was always informtive and respectful. Didn't always agree but at least we understood where each other was coming from.

And I've met Eastender several times, each at his invitation. The reason for these meetings was one and one only: so that EE could tell me just how knowledgeable he is about the Montreal sex trade and how little SL knows. EE was quite aware of the hostility that flew between me and SL and thought me a good audience, which, in fact, I was...to a degree.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

He can discuss in detail and with insight people and places that have long disappeared from the Montreal landscape

This would be one case of the blind leading the deranged.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Is there anyone here that can back up what he posted? Has anyone even questioned what he posted or is he incapable of putting his own spin on things?

The answer, my friend, is yes. I saw the whole thing and it occurred exactly as Ziggy has described. The only thing Ziggy left out was the wild, deranged look in SL's eyes.

 

[eastender]

Assuming....................

I give you the last word last night and that's the best you can do? Instead of standing your ground and defending your argument you come up with the above? OK, your assignment for the balance of the day is to try and do better. I'll try and see if I can check on your homework this evening.

Assuming you will be able to understand better going forward. Very improbable.

Rest assured delusional munchkin that my interests in what SL has to say extend to subjects, eras and people that are far more important than your limited perception of the Montreal scene. Celine, Gia, poutine etc are extremely insignificant in the overall Montreal scene. Flavour of the day types with no staying power.