PUA Community: Myth or reality?

[Blackjackmac]

as both a longtime hobbyist (been posting here ever since the board’s opening) and a PUA. I can tell you just one thing.
If you have positioned yourself in the life of a woman as her lover there is NO SP experience that can top that. When you are that guy she calls when she needs sex and wants it (because believe or not women’s love it) you will experience sexual quality orders of magnitude what you can get by paying for it.

now I will add one caveat is that it’s hard to achieve this with true 9/10 or 10/10 women as competition is fierce. And errors costly. However it’s like playing a game at the top level instead of playing east mode.

 

[bobbyc]

Seduction is a game Anna.... But if you don't know how to play, you lose every time!

As a highly sought after woman, you probably don't need to know much about how to approach a man you want. More often then not, they will likely at least listen to you or return your smile. Men will not give you an attitude if they believe you try to hit on them. I'm not saying they will all fall for you, but at least you get a decent chance.

But if you are an average guy, student in accounting wearing glasses and brown socks, timid and with very few women in your environment, you probably need to learn some of the basics. Otherwise, you can be yourself all you want, nobody will care. And if you're in this situation, whom do you learn this from?

Early on in my life, I followed diligently all the advices I received from girls about how to behave with them and be a good man. And I did end up with a whole phone book worth of very pretty girls' phone numbers to call and go out with. I remember an evening when I went out with one of these girls, so pretty! I was strongly attracted to her, and she knew it. In the middle of the evening, she leaves me 2 min to go to the washroom. Then I see her talking to a guy for 30 sec before return to our table. And she tells me "you don't have to drive me home, I'm going to his place, we're going to have sex after this". You have no idea how this made me feel, and the wink this guy made to me from across the bar... I felt so humiliated, ashamed and hurt. I was young and so stupid back then. If this happened to me today, I would just stand up and leave. But back then I was a nice man, so I continued to chat with her, make her laugh and have a good time and warmed her up for the next guy! And things like this happened all the time. When this happens once in a while, you get upset that one night, and move on. But when this happens to you all the time, when you have never success and only humiliation, then you are deeply sad, lonely and helpless. But you don't know how to do things differently. And as I'm writing this, I am absolutely certain there are multiple other men in here who went through something like this.

I'm sure you know some men like I was back then, Anna. Very good guys, they do all the right things, look good, are pleasant, make you laugh, respect you. But you feel nothing. And therefore wouldn't consider them.

So, there is one very important thing I learned painfully in life: Do not follow any advice from any woman about how you must conduct yourself to be considered as an option by her or her peers, she likely does not know herself!!!

I recognize that there are assholes amongst the PUA community. Self-proclaimed PUA looking for a commercial success and/or men who are disingenuous with women, and jerks taking advantage of men in a position of weakness. But if you go beyond the cliches you see on screen and if you read a bit around, there is another mentality as well in this group. It's about having the confidence to approach someone you don't know and who will likely reject you, having the courage and perseverance to face that rejection and try again, about making this fun for both the man and the woman and avoiding the trap of becoming "just a friend". And, of course, for starters, it's about grooming to be at your best... lose the brown socks, get some contact lenses! You know, the basics. Having a group of men ready to teach the basics to another group of men is actually something good. Yes there are sharks in this group of men. But I assure you there are some very decent guys who will teach others that they don't deserve being stepped on just because they're "nice" and will teach them how to handle themselves to be an option for this woman, instead of letting her step on them to go have sex with the next guy. And also avoid falling hopelessly in love with every single girl you court: if she's not interested, move on, there are 3 billions of them on earth! It is not about being disrespectful or manipulative to a woman, it's about being your best self to become an option instead of becoming the "good friend". And I feel this is fair.

For every arrogant PUA jerk, there are at least 10 clumsy guys trying courageously to improve themselves and to learn some basic skills to approach women in an attempt to have a fulfilling relationship with at least one of them. That is not worth laughing at.

although ive been lucky in life with woman i agree totally when i was younger i was very shy but what i had going
for me was self confidence and i always tried to look my best and those are very important to woman yes if your in good shape and look good youll have more success but if you look sloppy or dont at least put in the effort to look your best well im sorry its probably not going to happen , i know your going to tell me rejection kills the self confidence but then again keep working at it woman like confident men and when you look your best you do feel a bit more confident i know it not easy sometimes some guys are just akward around woman and i wish i could tell you how to be confident im lucky its just in me and i wish i could teach it but i dont really know how but i do know that confidence plays a big part with woman so if your not an asshole and your a good guy well start believing in yourself look your best and you will at least project some kind of confidence im not better than anybody else im just a nice guy so if i can anybody can

 

[Blackjackmac]

yeah being himself and not following a script or manipulating is usually a great start

You have been misinformed. In the eternal game of cat and mouse that is seduction, PUA is simply finding ways to be a better cat. Nothing more l, nothing less

 

[Biggie Smalls]

although ive been lucky in life with woman i agree totally when i was younger i was very shy but what i had going
for me was self confidence and i always tried to look my best and those are very important to woman yes if your in good shape and look good youll have more success but if you look sloppy or dont at least put in the effort to look your best well im sorry its probably not going to happen , i know your going to tell me rejection kills the self confidence but then again keep working at it woman like confident men and when you look your best you do feel a bit more confident i know it not easy sometimes some guys are just akward around woman and i wish i could tell you how to be confident im lucky its just in me and i wish i could teach it but i dont really know how but i do know that confidence plays a big part with woman so if your not an asshole and your a good guy well start believing in yourself look your best and you will at least project some kind of confidence im not better than anybody else im just a nice guy so if i can anybody can

Women love men that use punctuation too, so I have heard

 

[Fradi]

You have been misinformed. In the eternal game of cat and mouse that is seduction, PUA is simply finding ways to be a better cat. Nothing more l, nothing less

I find this hilarious.
Never had any issues with finding gorgeous women to date or have a relationship ship with.
Always laughed at guys with their shirts open to their navel, gold chains hanging everywhere and acting like bad boys practicing ridiculous pick up lines.
If anything they usually attracted women I wouldn’t want to be with anyway.
A sense of humour and a bit of kindness and respect always worked much better, you don’t need to practice this in front of a mirror lol.

 

[Blackjackmac]

“shirts open to their navel, gold chains hanging everywhere and acting like bad boys practicing ridiculous pick up lines.”

That’s a nice strawman… Do you feel better for having beat up on it? I’m glad you were born as God’s gift to women. Some of us have had to work at it that’s all

 

[Fradi]

That’s a nice strawman… Do you feel better for having beat up on it? I’m glad you were born as God’s gift to women. Some of us have had to work at it that’s all

Beat up on what.
For saying that I found guys with such a low regard for women ridiculous and thinking that pick up lines and a seeing how many you can fuck in a week is the way to treat women.
No I was never gods gift to women. If you are good at reading between the lines you will realize I always thought they were gods gift to me for having a happy and fulfilling life and I have never treated them otherwise

 

[Anna Bijou]

I have so much to say but the problem is that its really futile unless we are all talking about the same thing,

Please define what your definition of PUA or PUA community is? There is a lot of ew stuff that some people call PUA, some ridiculous, some misguided, a lot of mysoginistic crap and nonsense ideas about gender and there is some less crappy, even positive stuff that can be helpful - even if its generally applicable to any kind of social interaction and is already very accessible outside the PUA cultish community. Manosphere? Some seriously fucked up woman hatred there. Like, therapy is what can help these dudes.

So what are you talking about when you talk about PUA community?

The part I find unfortunate is that you are trying to force social skills and emotions but you don't actually do any of it authentically. Sure its a game but why waste so much time and energy faking it when you can actually be REAL and seek interactions that are REAL, regardless of the outcome or the scripts. Nevermind the end results, you become a much better person if you start just relating to people without the manipulation. Fake people miss out on a lot in life. Interacting, discussing and exchanging without any expectations is what makes you a better, more interesting and confident person. And that is what is ultimately attractive. Be yourself = BE REAL is actually the only way to hone your social and interpersonal skills....emotional intelligence. Not as a tool to get sex but as a way to be a better person. It's a life long pursuit and it doesn't work unless you are REAL.

xo

 

[Blackjackmac]

Dear Anna,

from the link you posted (we hunted the mammoth):

“Still others see themselves as Pickup Artists (PUA), or masters of “Game,” espousing elaborate “scientific” theories of male superiority while trading tips on how best to pressure or manipulate drunk women into bed. This misogynistic wing of the PUA subculture has a considerable overlap with a subset of traditionalist and far-right blogs. Many of those in what has come to be called “the manosphere” — hey, don’t blame me, I didn’t come up with that name — don’t simply embrace misogyny; they also proudly embrace “scientific” racism and other bigotries.”

So, as I said, you guys are beating up on a strawman. It’s disappointing because one would expect that on this message board of all boards one would not accept at face value the calomnies that mainstream thinkers believe of someone’s hobby.

I am a PUA and a hobbyist. I do not apologize for being either of these things. Both are part of my own path to discovering and enjoying my sexuality. To say that because I had to learn how to approach, engage and seduce women that somehow my emotions are not “real” is truly insulting. Is it “fake” for someone to learn how to properly dress? Is it “fake” for someone to learn when it is appropriate to cheekily bring up the subject of intimacy in a fun way? Is it “fake” to learn how to read a woman and know instantly whether she is into you or whether you are boring her to death?

Actually, your second link says it best:
“It’s fascinating in a perverse sort of way that such disdain is heaped on someone wanting to get better at getting women to like them. If a young man were to decide that he wanted to get better at math, nobody would blink twice at his finding a tutor or taking extra classes. If he wanted to get better at basketball, it would seem like the most normal thing in the world to find a trainer to help him improve his skills, build up his fitness and zero in on his weaknesses.”

why the hate?

 

[Bbw hunter]

I find this hilarious.
Never had any issues with finding gorgeous women to date or have a relationship ship with.
Always laughed at guys with their shirts open to their navel, gold chains hanging everywhere and acting like bad boys practicing ridiculous pick up lines.
If anything they usually attracted women I wouldn’t want to be with anyway.
A sense of humour and a bit of kindness and respect always worked much better, you don’t need to practice this in front of a mirror lol.

Just out of curiosity Fradi when was the last time you went to a bar?
Sounds like it was around 1978.

 

[Anna Bijou]

Dear Anna,

from the link you posted (we hunted the mammoth):

“Still others see themselves as Pickup Artists (PUA), or masters of “Game,” espousing elaborate “scientific” theories of male superiority while trading tips on how best to pressure or manipulate drunk women into bed. This misogynistic wing of the PUA subculture has a considerable overlap with a subset of traditionalist and far-right blogs. Many of those in what has come to be called “the manosphere” — hey, don’t blame me, I didn’t come up with that name — don’t simply embrace misogyny; they also proudly embrace “scientific” racism and other bigotries.”

So, as I said, you guys are beating up on a strawman. It’s disappointing because one would expect that on this message board of all boards one would not accept at face value the calomnies that mainstream thinkers believe of someone’s hobby.

I am a PUA and a hobbyist. I do not apologize for being either of these things. Both are part of my own path to discovering and enjoying my sexuality. To say that because I had to learn how to approach, engage and seduce women that somehow my emotions are not “real” is truly insulting. Is it “fake” for someone to learn how to properly dress? Is it “fake” for someone to learn when it is appropriate to cheekily bring up the subject of intimacy in a fun way? Is it “fake” to learn how to read a woman and know instantly whether she is into you or whether you are boring her to death?

Actually, your second link says it best:
“It’s fascinating in a perverse sort of way that such disdain is heaped on someone wanting to get better at getting women to like them. If a young man were to decide that he wanted to get better at math, nobody would blink twice at his finding a tutor or taking extra classes. If he wanted to get better at basketball, it would seem like the most normal thing in the world to find a trainer to help him improve his skills, build up his fitness and zero in on his weaknesses.”

why the hate?

no hate babe. it goes back to how an individual defines pua. sorry I didn't mean to offend..

 

[Blackjackmac]

no hate babe. it goes back to how an individual defines pua. sorry I didn't mean to offend..

No offense taken at all gorgeous . In fact Doctor Nerdloves post has intrigued me and I shall answer some of it my next post.
Have a a great night !

 

[Fradi]

What hate are you talking about.
IF it works for you not an issue.
Hopefully you have managed to have some lasting relationships and have been able to know what it means to love and be loved by a woman.
We are all different, I don’t believe in pick up lines or trying to be someone I am not, it has worked well for me but that does not mean it works for everyone.

 

[Fradi]

Just out of curiosity Fradi when was the last time you went to a bar?
Sounds like it was around 1978.

You must have a crystal ball lol.
Let me ask you this, you think all women should be picked up in a bar and with practiced pick up lines.
I met my wife at a church dance lol and I don’t go to church.
If I had to guess though I spent probably more time in bars than most people, when you start playing sports seriously at 16 you see a lot of bars in your early years. I don’t think there was one in the downtown core that I didn’t know, but you are right it has been a while.

 

[curly]

Anna, please define "Real" in your view?

 

[Bbw hunter]

You must have a crystal ball lol.
Let me ask you this, you think all women should be picked up in a bar and with practiced pick up lines.
I met my wife at a church dance lol and I don’t go to church.
If I had to guess though I spent probably more time in bars than most people, when you start playing sports seriously at 16 you see a lot of bars in your early years. I don’t think there was one in the downtown core that I didn’t know, but you are right it has been a while.

Actually I don't think women should be picked up with rehearsed lines. For one thing I don't think it works lol. For another things have to flow naturally; the rules of attraction and chemistry can't be faked.
I don't have a dog in this hunt and don't know about current PUA culture or whatever it is. I suspect some guys may be getting fed crap by grifting motivational speakers and authors looking to line their pockets...but what do I know.
I only mentioned the late 70s because I think that was the last time many guys wore gold chains with open shirts haha.

 

[curly]

To make things clear, these were the main principles from the PUA community that I hung around with for a while:

• You are not a loser, you are worthy of a woman's attention. (believe it or not, this is very challenging to learn for many, including myself at the beginning)
• Girls are not princesses. They are human being just like you are. Don't put them on a pedestal, don't put yourself in a pedestal.
• Be at your best, get a good haircut, dress with good taste, cut your nails and hairs coming out of your nose... (yes, believe it or not!)
• You will need to talk to many woman before you find one you get along with, some of them will be mean, will reject you nastily. Get over it and try again
• Don't offer her a drink, don't approach her with a pick-up line, this comes across as needy or clumsy (PUA using pickup-lines is so cliché, and it's actually so inaccurate)
• Have an open and welcoming non-verbal attitude (e.g. smile! don't look at the floor, don't cross your arms, don't stand in the corner staring at people)
• Don't accept mean behaviors of women toward you, as cute as she may be. (what I should have done with my date , see my previous post). Move on! There are 3 billions of them on earth, some of them are actually nice people.
• Don't catch the "oneithis", i.e. don't fall hopelessly in love with only one girl. If she is not interested, move on. Don't pursue her, harass her, don't waste your time.
• Yes, there are questions you can ask someone you don't know, to start a conversation. These are not the same as a "pick-up line". They are just generic questions that shows the other person you are interested in knowing them.
• It will feel "staged" at the beginning, just like public speaking feels "staged" when you're not used to it. With practice, you will do this naturally.
• If you do go on a date, don't pull out your "check list" of things she must do/not do to be your girlfriend (e.g. don't smoke, like dogs, likes hockey, likes music, etc...). Just take the conversation on something fun and mutually interesting (yes, they will give you example of these)
• Your female partner expect you to be a man. She will expect you to behave like a man. Don't make her do all the work (e.g. sustain a conversation, suggest places where to go, etc). Show some initiative yourself, have a variety of options for activities, do know where you are going..
• Look for clues of her showing some interest in you (e.g. laugh with you, ask you questions about yourself, is not on her phone waiting for the evening to end, she touches your arm, makes a compliment), then you can "escalate", e.g. show her signs yourself that you like her (touch her shoulder, return compliments, etc, although the compliment thing is not unanimous, some PUA consider them as needy, remember the pedestal thing?).
• Enjoy the interaction, enjoy her presence, make this playful. You are not asking her to marry you, just to spend an evening in (hopefully!) good company.
• No means no. If she says no, don't insist, don't waste her time and yours, move on
• If she means yes, she will expect you to behave like a man. This does not mean being pushy, just means moving the interaction forward. (for e.g. Getting to bed does not happen if you keep talking about the elections, get the conversation on a more personal level. Another example, if she touches you then reciprocate, move things forward).

Some "methods" give you principles on how to "escalate", for e.g. don't jump on her mouth to kiss her, do this gradually. For example, touch her hand, her arms, her hair, hug her, kiss her cheek, her neck before moving to the mouth. This makes the heat go up for both of you and is very pleasant for a woman. At least generally more pleasant than a direct abrupt approach for most women. You know, simple things that are common sense to someone with some kind of sexual/seduction experience, but are foreign to a clumsy beginner.

Nothing in there is "scripted". "Scripts" come from the movies or tv shows where they exaggerate PUA behaviors to be entertaining, and most of the time have no idea what they're talking about.

Now I'm fully aware that some assholes are using some manipulative methods. They don't need to be self-proclaimed PUA for this by the way. But essentially, these principle I feel are some of the basis that were shared amongst the chaps I was hanging around with. Others who had experience hanging around that community, please feel free to add to this comment. I fail to see how this is not respectful. It's actually courteous I think. And it's common sense to someone with some experience, but for a clumsy guy they are useful to know/learn.

 

[Anna Bijou]

Anna, please define "Real" in your view?

Sure.

Authentic, genuine, not phony or fake, open, non-judgemental. No big agenda.

You feel it. Someone who is being real has a vibe that fake people don't have. I get along with almost anyone but fake people have a strong repulsive effect on me.

 

[Anna Bijou]

Actually I don't think women should be picked up with rehearsed lines. For one thing I don't think it works lol. For another things have to flow naturally; the rules of attraction and chemistry can't be faked.
I don't have a dog in this hunt and don't know about current PUA culture or whatever it is. I suspect some guys may be getting fed crap by grifting motivational speakers and authors looking to line their pockets...but what do I know.
I only mentioned the late 70s because I think that was the last time many guys wore gold chains with open shirts haha.

yes yes yes

 

[Anna Bijou]

To make things clear, these were the main principles from the PUA community that I hung around with for a while:

• You are not a loser, you are worthy of a woman's attention. (believe it or not, this is very challenging to learn for many, including myself at the beginning)
• Girls are not princesses. They are human being just like you are. Don't put them on a pedestal, don't put yourself in a pedestal.
• Be at your best, get a good haircut, dress with good taste, cut your nails and hairs coming out of your nose... (yes, believe it or not!)
• You will need to talk to many woman before you find one you get along with, some of them will be mean, will reject you nastily. Get over it and try again
• Don't offer her a drink, don't approach her with a pick-up line, this comes across as needy or clumsy (PUA using pickup-lines is so cliché, and it's actually so inaccurate)
• Have an open and welcoming non-verbal attitude (e.g. smile! don't look at the floor, don't cross your arms, don't stand in the corner staring at people)
• Don't accept mean behaviors of women toward you, as cute as she may be. (what I should have done with my date , see my previous post). Move on! There are 3 billions of them on earth, some of them are actually nice people.
• Don't catch the "oneithis", i.e. don't fall hopelessly in love with only one girl. If she is not interested, move on. Don't pursue her, harass her, don't waste your time.
• Yes, there are questions you can ask someone you don't know, to start a conversation. These are not the same as a "pick-up line". They are just generic questions that shows the other person you are interested in knowing them.
• It will feel "staged" at the beginning, just like public speaking feels "staged" when you're not used to it. With practice, you will do this naturally.
• If you do go on a date, don't pull out your "check list" of things she must do/not do to be your girlfriend (e.g. don't smoke, like dogs, likes hockey, likes music, etc...). Just take the conversation on something fun and mutually interesting (yes, they will give you example of these)
• Your female partner expect you to be a man. She will expect you to behave like a man. Don't make her do all the work (e.g. sustain a conversation, suggest places where to go, etc). Show some initiative yourself, have a variety of options for activities, do know where you are going..
• Look for clues of her showing some interest in you (e.g. laugh with you, ask you questions about yourself, is not on her phone waiting for the evening to end, she touches your arm, makes a compliment), then you can "escalate", e.g. show her signs yourself that you like her (touch her shoulder, return compliments, etc, although the compliment thing is not unanimous, some PUA consider them as needy, remember the pedestal thing?).
• Enjoy the interaction, enjoy her presence, make this playful. You are not asking her to marry you, just to spend an evening in (hopefully!) good company.
• No means no. If she says no, don't insist, don't waste her time and yours, move on
• If she means yes, she will expect you to behave like a man. This does not mean being pushy, just means moving the interaction forward. (for e.g. Getting to bed does not happen if you keep talking about the elections, get the conversation on a more personal level. Another example, if she touches you then reciprocate, move things forward).

Some "methods" give you principles on how to "escalate", for e.g. don't jump on her mouth to kiss her, do this gradually. For example, touch her hand, her arms, her hair, hug her, kiss her cheek, her neck before moving to the mouth. This makes the heat go up for both of you and is very pleasant for a woman. At least generally more pleasant than a direct abrupt approach for most women. You know, simple things that are common sense to someone with some kind of sexual/seduction experience, but are foreign to a clumsy beginner.

Nothing in there is "scripted". "Scripts" come from the movies or tv shows where they exaggerate PUA behaviors to be entertaining, and most of the time have no idea what they're talking about.

Now I'm fully aware that some assholes are using some manipulative methods. They don't need to be self-proclaimed PUA for this by the way. But essentially, these principle I feel are some of the basis that were shared amongst the chaps I was hanging around with. Others who had experience hanging around that community, please feel free to add to this comment. I fail to see how this is not respectful. It's actually courteous I think. And it's common sense to someone with some experience, but for a clumsy guy they are useful to know/learn.

I get that but it doesn't have to be with the whole focus on women, These are important life skills in general. If you approach it like that, it doesn't seem so manipulative and just becomes natural.