STM bus driver refuses to speak English to passenger, calls police

[toonster]

the bus driver is an idiot.....no question about it but couldn't anyone else answer this guys question. Don't tell me no one on the bus spoke english, all of this could have been avoided if someone just got involved and gave the guy the time. Anyways this is nothing new in Montreal, it's this type of attitude that has made our American tourist stay away. Trust me I ran a business downtown for over 15 years and every summer the numbers get less and less.

 

[Bucky]

Why does integration have to mean submission to another culture? Why should any immigrant be forced to discard their own culture for any other? As you say...80% of the population of Quebec speak French so why do you still insist that it is in danger of vanishing? It has nothing to do with culture and it has everything to do with power. It isn't the survival of the French Canadian culture that is important, it's the dominance of the French language in Quebec that they want to preserve. And that isn't the same thing at all.

And by the way Bucky, not that it is relevant to this discussion, but can you provide some links to these language laws that you say exist in Texas for us?

And Wilko...if you can't get service in French in any store in Montreal, I'm pretty sure that it would be front page news on the Journal de Montreal and that the OLF would be shutting them down very quickly.

J'ai trouvé celle concernant la Californie : http://primary98.sos.ca.gov/VoterGuide/Propositions/227text.htm
En passant techman, Montréal est maintenant a 55% allophone *qui parle une autre langue que le francais* voila pourquoi je me bats et je n'ai pas l'intention de baisser les bras, en ce qui concerne l'OLF, leur budget a été tellement coupé par le 1er ministre John Charest qu'il n'est plus en mesure de faire appliquer la loi 101 de façon efficace sur le territoire. Tu n'es peut-etre pas un lecteur assidu du Journal de Montréal, mais celui-ci avait fait paraitre une enquête maison; une journaliste incognito allait appliquer pour des emplois dans différents magasins au détail du centre-ville et avait été déboutée 2 fois plus souvent lorsqu'elle se présentait comme unilingue francophone que comme unilingue anglophone, alors ne viens pas nier le fait que le centre-ville s'anglicise. Je trouve ca triste pcq Montréal est entrain de perdre son accent francophone qui le distinguait des autres villes nord-américaines, et si le tourisme américain est en baisse ici il est en hausse a Québec, une ville unilingue, alors ce n'est probablement pas pour cette raison que les touristes ne reviennent pas, propreté ? manque d'activités ? ou tout simplement perte du cachet français de la ville, je ne sais pas faudrait leur demander a eux.

 

[wilko26]

And Wilko...if you can't get service in French in any store in Montreal, I'm pretty sure that it would be front page news on the Journal de Montreal and that the OLF would be shutting them down very quickly.

Restaurant U and Me, 1900 ste-catherine W... this place cant explain in french what's in their plate, they can say bonjour blablabla but when my GF asked them what was some of their plate I had to translate. Now whats gonna be your excuse? It's an asian restaurant?

Hey what about meeting somewhere and do couple adresse that I have in mind, let say I pick up 10 adresses and If I have a ratio of more than 50% I win 5k and if I loose I give you 5k?

Anyone else in? Think about it guys.... can be a easy 5k made

Let see who have balls...

 

[wilko26]

I'll take that bet : You pick 10 addresses and I'll select which one we visit on totally random days
I'm 100% certain that by simply asking I'll get served in French in all 10 places.

K but im not talking about 'je vais prend un no 7 avec un no 10 et une bière' I'm telling you that at that place and im pretty sure its same in many restaurants they cant answer questions such: 'Je suis allergique à certains aliment et j'aimerais que vous m'énumériez les ingrédients de ce qui est inclu dans le no X?' Do we agree on that?

And we need to go on every place on same day you can pick up the day you wish np but I wont start fucking around over a month and then see a guy disapear when theres missing only one place to loose his bet. I'll have 5k cash on me and expecting same from the bidder, no check, no bs...

Wilko

Edit: Btw ill reply probably tomorrow leaving for rest of the day and my life is not merb based

 

[Techman]

Restaurant U and Me, 1900 ste-catherine W... this place cant explain in french what's in their plate, they can say bonjour blablabla but when my GF asked them what was some of their plate I had to translate. Now whats gonna be your excuse? It's an asian restaurant?

Hey what about meeting somewhere and do couple adresse that I have in mind, let say I pick up 10 adresses and If I have a ratio of more than 50% I win 5k and if I loose I give you 5k?

Anyone else in? Think about it guys.... can be a easy 5k made

Let see who have balls...

In that case why didn't you just leave? Vote with your dollar! If you don't get the service you want in the language you request the best way to make your point is to explain it to them and then walk out the door. If enough people do this, then they will hire someone who can serve you in French. If they don't, then they don't deserve your business.

But when it comes to public transit, you have no choice. And those who serve the public should be able to do so in both languages. If nothing else, it's a matter of public safety. And that should take precedence over any other consideration.

 

[Bucky]

Whoa Bucky, tu viens de changer de carré de sable.
Ce thread parle d'un incident à la société de transport de MONTRÉAL.
Sa clientèle est telle que l'argument "(français) qui est parlée par 80% de la population du Québec" ne tiens pas route.

Alors que penser des arguments suivants tirés de la loi 101 :
1. Le droit de chaque personne que toutes les branches du gouvernement, les ordres professionnels, les associations d'employés et les entreprises établis au Québec communiquent avec elle en français.
2. Le droit de chaque personne de parler français dans les assemblées délibérantes.
3. Le droit des travailleurs d'exercer leurs activités en français.
4. Le droit des consommateurs d'être informés et servis en français.
5. Le droit des personnes admissibles à l'enseignement au Québec de recevoir leur enseignement en français.

Bizarrement personne ne parle de l'usager, était-il agressif ? criait-il ? comme je le vois souvent a mon travail a la STM, je te mets au défi dingaling, de venir passer avec moi un quart de travail a l'intérieur d'une loge, tu verra les choses d'un tout autre oeil. Ceci dit, je n'ai aucunement a subir les humeurs des usagers, je travaille dans le publique depuis plus de 20 ans, et mes patrons m'ont toujours supporté tant qu'au fait de me faire crier, injurier ou insulter par un client, qu'il soit saoul, drogué ou tout autre condition, je suis un humain comme tout le monde et j'ai le droit de faire respecter mon intégrité, personnellement je me fous de la couleur, de la religion ou de la langue que tu parles, mais j'ai le DROIT de travailler en français au Québec, c'est un droit inaliénable, alors xénophobes, racistes et autres siphonnés du cerveau tenez-vous le pour dit. Alors si vous n'êtes pas d'accord avec cette loi, allez donc vivre la ou elle ne s'applique pas.

 

[voyageur11]

Why does integration have to mean submission to another culture? Why should any immigrant be forced to discard their own culture for any other? As you say...80% of the population of Quebec speak French so why do you still insist that it is in danger of vanishing? It has nothing to do with culture and it has everything to do with power. It isn't the survival of the French Canadian culture that is important, it's the dominance of the French language in Quebec that they want to preserve. And that isn't the same thing at all.

And by the way Bucky, not that it is relevant to this discussion, but can you provide some links to these language laws that you say exist in Texas for us?

And Wilko...if you can't get service in French in any store in Montreal, I'm pretty sure that it would be front page news on the Journal de Montreal and that the OLF would be shutting them down very quickly.

www.proenglish.org/states/texas.htm the city of el cenizo adopted spanish for their official language .Some city in Arizona,California New Mexico and Texas you dont have nothing but Spanish tv

 

[Techman]

Bucky and voyageur11, I don't see anything in what either of you posted restricting any other language. I see nothing wrong with legislating that immigrant children learn English just as I see nothing wrong with immigrant children being taught to speak French here. I do have a problem with immigrant children in Quebec being prohibited from learning French while taking the rest of their education in the language of their choice though as is the case here in Quebec.

There is also nothing wrong with any country declaring an official language as long as they do not prohibit other languages from appearing on signs or legislate their size as is done here in Quebec.

Before you start comparing laws in other countries with the laws here, at least try to find one that goes at least somewhere near the same distance as our language laws do here. So find me one country where the parents are prohibited by the state from educating their children in a particular language where the public school system has institutions in more than one language as in Quebec. Also find me one country or state where a language is prohibited from signs or must be limited in size as well as one country where the language of business is legislated by law.

Good luck.

 

[Techman]

how is it wrong for the large French majority in Quebec and Montreal have the right to vote to preserve it's culture and language, as long as that doesn't disenfranchise minority cultures.

Do you have any idea of how things work here? That is exactly what is being done. Does the term 'assimilation' mean anything to you? When immigrants come here, they are expected to give up their own culture and language and adopt the French Quebecois culture and language. They are expected to assimilate into the majority. They have no choice in the language of education of their children or of the language they wish to conduct business in. It must be French by law! There is no choice here. We are the Borg. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Yes the majority has the right to preserve their culture and language but not at the expense of all others. If a culture is strong and vibrant, no laws are needed to protect it. If a culture is weak and it's people are not able to pass it on to their children because they aren't having enough to ensure it's survival, no laws in the world will prevent it from disappearing.

 

[voyageur11]

Il n'est pas pire aveugle que celui qui ne veut pas voir

 

[eastender]

Little Steps

Interesting ruling re Via Rail and services in French:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/life...ge+against+language+policy/1976829/story.html

 

[CLOUD 500]

Je me demande qui est le plus xénophobe, celui qui veut protéger sa langue qui est parlée par 80% de la population du Québec, ou celui qui refuse de s'intégrer et qui se cantonne dans son gettho en refusant de s'ouvrir a la culture et la langue du territoire ou il habite ?

Your statement sounds so funny and makes no sense. If 80% of the population speaks French then how is the language being threatened? It is more about French should dominate over the other languages and all other languages especially English should be abolished. That is what this war has been about since the beginning. Look at all the streets signs have been renames because they were too English.The FLQ murdered people so that French can dominate all other languages. That is what I call very Xenophobic. Anyone living in this province and any immigrants coming to this province have to submit to the French language and to Quebecois culture. Let me ask you why the people coming to this province have no choice to choose and why do they have to give up their language for another? We live in a democracy it is a free country everyone should have the right to choose. A business should have the choice to operate their business in whatever language they like. Keep in mind a restaurant in Montreal will want to hire bilingual waitresses as the population speaks both languages. Especially transit bus drives have to speak both language since you are a public worked serving the public and it concerns public safety.

 

[CLOUD 500]

Hello Cloud,
Oh come on. I am just a tourist and I can easily find both English and French who don't know or don't want to respond to the other language when it is spoken to them. Most Montrealers I find are bilingual and very helpful, especially the French. But there is very obviously a problem with some on both sides. It is especially evident when I go into a non-tourist situation like a small grocery or specialty store.

Hmm? I reread my post again and I think that is what I said. In downtown Montreal you can find service in both French and English which is the way it should be especially public transit.

Of course there is no need to enforce English where it is heavily dominant and not threatened. But you are saying Quebec or Montreal with it's vast majority of French speaking people has no right to use laws or ordinances to preserve it's language or culture. Isn't democracy the will of the majority. Of course Democracy should never be used to persecute the minority, but if you really believe the "democratic" process is the answer to all decisions then how is it wrong for the large French majority in Quebec and Montreal have the right to vote to preserve it's culture and language, as long as that doesn't disenfranchise minority cultures.

I do not think you quite understand. It is all about the French language dominating over all other languages and all other cultures submitting to Quebecois culture. That is exactly what they are doing persecuting the minority. I other place has laws as strict as here to maintain French as the dominant language. The are major restrictions to attend school in English people are forced to go to French school. Businesses have to operate in French. The French signs have to dominate other signs. All these laws eliminate the freedom of expression of people. How is that democratic? You should read a little bit of how this Bill came into effect. It was a bad time in Quebec.

DEAD WRONG! You are being extremely myopic here. You are either being deliberately blind to the truth or are so focused in serving your own interests that you are in effect blind. Xenophobia is not a trait limited to any nationality. It's a universal human trait dependent only on certain social and cultural conditions based on fear of what seems foreign and is perceived as threatening in some way. All you have to do is read people like Anglophuck/Ocoq and Mazingerz, and more, to realize that xenophobic hysteria is alive and well on both sides, English and French. And frankly, a large proportion of your statements on these cultural matters have many elements of the xenophobia of both Anglophuck/Ocoq and Mazingerz. When you insist the problem is one-sided, as above, and fail to see both sides have justified complaints as well self-interested faults then you start to look myopic, very biased, and nearly xenophobic.

BTW...I don't think you are a bad guy, but you do have certain chips on your shoulder you carry around that prevent you from being fair.

Cheers buddy,

Merlot

You are right about that. I totally agree with you on that. My only interest is that people should have the choice to choose to speak whatever language they want, operate their business in whatever language they want, and to choose the language of the school they like to send their children to which has been eliminated in this province. It is so sad that so many English schools are closing down due to lack of enrollment not because the students do not want to but because access has been restricted. But right now this thread started by an incident that occurred in Montreal so yes I am only discussing about that. My problem is with the viewpoints of some of these posters. These laws they have in Quebec is based both on fear of what is dissimilar to them and also about power. Nothing could be more xenophobic then that.

 

[CLOUD 500]

Bizarrement personne ne parle de l'usager, était-il agressif ? criait-il ? comme je le vois souvent a mon travail a la STM, je te mets au défi dingaling, de venir passer avec moi un quart de travail a l'intérieur d'une loge, tu verra les choses d'un tout autre oeil. Ceci dit, je n'ai aucunement a subir les humeurs des usagers, je travaille dans le publique depuis plus de 20 ans, et mes patrons m'ont toujours supporté tant qu'au fait de me faire crier, injurier ou insulter par un client, qu'il soit saoul, drogué ou tout autre condition, je suis un humain comme tout le monde et j'ai le droit de faire respecter mon intégrité, personnellement je me fous de la couleur, de la religion ou de la langue que tu parles, mais j'ai le DROIT de travailler en français au Québec, c'est un droit inaliénable, alors xénophobes, racistes et autres siphonnés du cerveau tenez-vous le pour dit. Alors si vous n'êtes pas d'accord avec cette loi, allez donc vivre la ou elle ne s'applique pas.

I agree with you on that. We do not know what the man in question was saying or how he was behaving. But keep in mind this happened in the morning during rush hour with so many people I am not sure how the driver could have felt threatened? I could understand that late at night. But I will not speculate into that till I have all the facts. My arguments are based on the fact that I have a problem with your opinion.

You are right you should have the right to work in French if you desire that is your right. However keep in mind you work for the public sector serving the public and if there is a passenger that speaks to you in English instead of getting angry and hating answer his question in English and smile? Remember your pay is funded by the people who pay the taxes. You are the driver serving the public paid for by public money and the passengers are your customers. Just like you I would prefer to work in English which is exactly what I do. I used to work in a call center several years ago in customer service and I had to serve customers in both English and French. They were the customer and they have to the right to be served in the language of their choice. However when you say everyone has to speak French I disagree with that and will term you a xenophobe.

 

[Marlow]

One day I am going to do a DATELINE NBC style hidden camera sting on these rats. Then I will post it on Youtube.

 

[protagoras]

Breaking news: It appears that the "faulty" buss driver was Louise Harel.

 

[wilko26]

You want me to go to 10 restaurants in one day ?

Listen to yourself, you're setting it up with so many rules you'l never pay. "fucking around over a month " is language from a guy just realized his bet is a dumb one made while emotional. "Edit: Btw ill reply probably tomorrow leaving for rest of the day and my life is not merb based " confirms it.


1- We hire an independent person to hold the money , a lawyer, priest, cop... whatever. I don't know any priests so if that's your option, you find one; I'll just need to see some proof of ID.
2- We do 2 restaurants per day until I w.... I mean, until one of us wins, no more than 5 days and no less than 3 days, obviously.
3- Camera crew : I select the camera crew and you select the network (but I have a veto on TVA, basically the same biased bunch as Journal de Montréal).
4- Royalties : me 60, you 30%, 10% to charity.


I'll be ordering soup, a main course, a desert with water.

I'm not only talking about restaurant, you think its only a matter of restaurant? Having a camera crew is kinda ridiculous, I actually have a company that sell hidden cam and we can both have one on us if you want (you can keep your) and we upload it on youtube? If you want some exposure with camera etc you should go for an actor job.

And no it's not an emmotional bet, but I'm not living on Montreal island anymore and don't want my schedule is not that much empty. My comment that my life is not merb based was only a wink to all thoses people that would think I'm not replying cause im chicken out.

Btw what's gonna append if we go to a convenience store and its that guy who was in the bus that work that day and he's alone?

Techman: Here's the answer about your question why I didnt leave the restaurant that wasnt able to serve us in french:

Where the hell I said I was offusqued of that? Obviously I found that it's unethical and innapropriate, but I'm not like thoses people (theres some in all community french/english) that hide under a rock and just stay in his little thing and in their little guetto because they dont like to integrate or refuse to accept that there's some people different than them on the planet.

 

[wilko26]

Btw this guy who's crying that he couldn't get an answer from a bus driver in english, I think he don't know what's going on to white people doing in his country. I went to India (it's not pakistan but they do pretty much business the same way than them) and I can say that people trying to scam foreigner in thoses country are nothing compare a simple bus driver who cant answer a simple question in a language he don't know. When I was in Delhi people in store were trying to overcharge me even if there was a tag on the items I was buying, some dude was asking money just because we watched at about 10 meter of him his snake dancing with the whisle or whatever it was.... Same with taxi driver, same with the guy that was offering me replica jeans at a higher cost than real one. Same with thoses guide at taj mahal that put easy removable sticker at taj mahal on their price list to ask get more money....

What this guy would feel if the bus driver would ask him 5$ instead of the 2.xx$ it cost normally? He and we would say this guy was racist or whatever...

So I dont understand why this guy did so much drama... That you guy feel always attacked when its about the language, law are done by governement and governement is elected by people, if you arent happy with it just move away. Does I'm gonna cry if no one can serve me in french on a air canada flight between calgary and vancouver? Of course not.... if you heard some story like that you have to put a line between extremist people and normal people... newspaper, radio, tv are making money on drama and who make drama? the 1% of monkeys in this country....

 

[wilko26]

You want me to order meals but not necessarily at a restaurant. I may as well hand over the 5K if you bring me to Kirkland Arena and ask about the menu at Julien's.

I'm the one speaking in french and asking things.... you watch buddy And I never said it would be 10 restaurants, restaurant was an example of course I will select few but it's about consumer/business intereaction.

 

[GTA refugee]

Youtube video is very damaging - even for a one location stand alone establishement.

I once made a complaint to a store manager about an employee by telephone. I suspect that he did not realy care that much and did not even speak to the employee.
On a later occasion that same employee was rude to me again. I again called the manager and told him I had hidden camera footage of the emplyee being rude and asked if he wanted to see it. ( it was a bluff ) He said no he did not need to see the video, he woud talk to the employee. I believe he did talk to the employee, because that person was quiet and repectful the next time I went to that store.
Imagine how much business you will loose if video of a rude employee appears on Youtube.