Well I'll tell you what. Get me the stats for charges laid to compare with conviction rates and show me how both trends are on a decrease. Then we'll talk.
The Death Penalty to 40 years old Vince Li !! See him I have the link !!
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Well I'll tell you what. Get me the stats for charges laid to compare with conviction rates and show me how both trends are on a decrease. Then we'll talk.
Regular Guy said:
This, Gentlemen and ladies, is the online equivalent of sticking one's fingers in one's ears and going 'La la la la, I can't HEAR you!'
You keep making baseless assertions that crime is going up, and that we are soft on crime. I provided statistical evidence that you are completely wrong. it is now up to you to prove contradictory factual evidence. That's how the game is played son. Failing that, I have won game set and match in this part of the discussion.
Sorry I took so long to reply. Hard to type with my fingers in my ears. And Eastender, you too. Get your fingers out of your ears! Sorry for my obtuseness but it's getting late and I am off. You win - game set and match!YouVantOption said:
Explain???
If overall incidents are down you have a decrease in criminal events, since the ideal objective is to get criminal incidents down to zero.
The fluctuations in the apprehension and conviction rates do not necessarily
reflect an increase or a decrease. Apprehending and convicting one criminal for 100 incidents does not have the same effect as apprehending and convicting 10 criminals for one incident or 100 criminals for 100 incidents.
Regular Guy said:
If overall incidents are down you have a decrease in criminal events, since the ideal objective is to get criminal incidents down to zero.
The fluctuations in the apprehension and conviction rates do not necessarily
reflect an increase or a decrease. Apprehending and convicting one criminal for 100 incidents does not have the same effect as apprehending and convicting 10 criminals for one incident or 100 criminals for 100 incidents.
Copycat Killing?
A man in Greece has beheaded his girlfriend's dog and his girlfriend, proudly displaying her head to neighbors and then flinging it at police as they tried to arrest him:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/03/greece.crime.ap/index.html
A man in Greece has beheaded his girlfriend's dog and his girlfriend, proudly displaying her head to neighbors and then flinging it at police as they tried to arrest him:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/03/greece.crime.ap/index.html
D
Daringly
Doc Holliday said:
The cost to prosecute them does not make one bit of difference to me. All it means is we have a broken system that needs to be fixed. I am interested in justice and prevention. You take a life then you have given up your right to life. If you are put to death you will not murder again.
You want examples of our fine justice system at work? How about this very recent example:
And that's just one example. I'm certain that if I took the time to look up others on the net I could find many others. The sentences handed out to sex offenders here is laughable. Not to mention those handed out to so called juvenile offenders whose name and photo cannot even be published.
Remember the Toope murders? Well those kids are out on the street as we speak. Maybe living next door to any one of us.
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0010551
And more evidence on how effective rehabilitation is:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2000/02/09/toope000209.html
And because of their previous conviction they can never be identified no matter what they do. Wonderful isn't it?
Techman
And that's just one example. I'm certain that if I took the time to look up others on the net I could find many others. The sentences handed out to sex offenders here is laughable. Not to mention those handed out to so called juvenile offenders whose name and photo cannot even be published.
Remember the Toope murders? Well those kids are out on the street as we speak. Maybe living next door to any one of us.
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0010551
And more evidence on how effective rehabilitation is:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2000/02/09/toope000209.html
And because of their previous conviction they can never be identified no matter what they do. Wonderful isn't it?
Techman
Hello all,
Well, aren't we all having a ball with this thread. Nearly 200 posts in a few days. This is quite a show.
Ugh,
Korbel
Well, aren't we all having a ball with this thread. Nearly 200 posts in a few days. This is quite a show.
Ugh,
Korbel
No Guaratees
And a well known hitman from the 1970's and early 1980's has been out of prison for over ten years without any problems.
Yet the alleged killer in the seminal incident to this thread led a normal perhaps boring life.
The Toope tragedy had the same net result as other instances where an adult child - having led an exemplary life, kills their elderly parents.
Life offers not guarantees.
Techman said:
And a well known hitman from the 1970's and early 1980's has been out of prison for over ten years without any problems.
Yet the alleged killer in the seminal incident to this thread led a normal perhaps boring life.
The Toope tragedy had the same net result as other instances where an adult child - having led an exemplary life, kills their elderly parents.
Life offers not guarantees.
thebitchelor said:hello darlingim agree with you..this is why i stopped post here...this kind of conversation could keep on years aftrer years cuz its only abotu personnal opnion and it not often people change their opinion..(or at least.because of somebody else)...so everybody want to show that they are right..
Bitchelor,
I agree with you that this thread is pointless because you just have the same opinions being regurgitated over and over, which gets boring after a while. I never posted my opinion in this thread, only facts on what jurisdictions in the USA are doing legally in terms of capital punishment. The only interesting point raised in this thread was JustBob's point that the trend in the last 100 years is the nations and states around the world are doing away with capital punishment. That is FACT. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing can be debated endlessly and pointlessly. I only interjected some facts due to JB's point about the decline of capital punishment in the last 100 years.
By the ways, I did some research on capital punishment in Canada. The last execution in Canada was in Toronto in 1962. It's been de facto abolished since 1964 and de jure abolished since 1976. So the whole thread is irrelevant and pointless. An interesting note though is that Canada had an official hangman prior to 1962 as all executions in Canada were conducted by hanging. There was a legendary hangman by the name of Arthur Ellis (not his real name, as a hangman used handles like we do on this Board). Arthur lost his job in 1935 due to a botched hanging in Montreal resulting in the decapitation of a woman whose weight had been underestimated for the rope used. She was being held at the Montreal women's prison (now D'Emma restaurant) and Arthur accepted a written estimate of her weight, rather than weighing her himself, in order to calculate the length and width of the rope to be used. She was 32 pounds over the weight estimated resulting in her public decapitation. As executions were public at that time it led to extreme controversy in Canada, and historically may be viewed as one of the reasons why the death penalty was ultimately abolished in Canada (from what I have read).
Arthur Ellis died in Montreal in abject poverty in 1938, 3 years after the botched execution. He had been Canada's hangman for 22 years since 1913 and was considered a master craftsman in the hangman trade until at age 71 he botched the execution of Thomasina Sarao.
The Crime Writers of Canada present annual literary awards – the Arthur Ellis Awards – named after this pseudonym.
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thebitchelor said:hello darling
im agree with you..this is why i stopped post here...this kind of conversation could keep on years aftrer years cuz its only abotu personnal opnion and it not often people change their opinion..(or at least.because of somebody else)...so everybody want to show that they are right..
Hello B,
So, you are up already. I was dreaming of you last night. Ummmm, so nice.
These posts have ranged from thoughtful and informative to phobia-plagued rants. Personally, I just love when a reply injects pet peeves, biases, and/or fears that have nothing to do with what I said onto me. Some members, who have proven many times to be very intelligent writers, have let their emotionalism on this issue get away from them. The issue was on a vicious killer and that ilk, not every weakness of the justice system or a battle over which country is worse. But, this is free speech...I guess. Let the games continue.
Happy posting,
Korbel
D
Daringly
YouVantOption said:
Where did I, or anyone else bring up language rights??? I mentioned taxes as an example to show that people tend to allow the government to do whatever it wants with little objection as well as an example that the govenment doesn't really give a damn what it's citizens want.
You wanted examples of where our system is soft on crime and I posted a couple for you to check out. And I don't necessarily mean that the laws are not in place, the problem is the application of the law and the sentences given out by the courts once a conviction is obtained. That is where the system is failing...there and in it's misguided view that anyone can be rehabilitated.
Just the fact that we have a 'faint hope clause' is ridiculous. How about a 'no hope clause', as in you commit a brutal murder and you have no hope of ever seeing daylight again?
And I'll leave you with one last example...
Dave Hilton Jr. served 5 years in prison for sexually assaulting his two daughters when they were under the age of 14. Since his release he has been in a revolving door to jail, constantly violating his parole and still keeps getting released. How long before this guy really loses it and seriously hurts or kills someone?
5 YEARS! For sexual assault on his own DAUGHTERS!!! This guy should be rotting in jail until he is too old to pose a threat to anyone.
Now tell me again how our justice system is not soft.
Techman
Another beheading!
http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/472041
Lets hope this does not become a new trend!
http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/472041
Lets hope this does not become a new trend!
D
Daringly
thebitchelor said:hello darling
im agree with you..this is why i stopped post here...this kind of conversation could keep on years aftrer years cuz its only abotu personnal opnion and it not often people change their opinion..(or at least.because of somebody else)...so everybody want to show that they are right..
I do agree with the bitchelor on this one, this is about personal opinion and no one is going to change anyone elses mind. The death penalty is a topic that people on both sides of the fences feel very strongly about. I have never ever even have had a shadow of a doubt that the death penalty is fair and just.
A life long best friend of mine is dead set against the death penalty and him and i are on the opposite side of the fence on politics and many other issues but at the end of the day we still get along and go for a cold one
Poor Example
Poor example. You have a family where the kids were taught to fight from the time they were toddlers. Their physicality is more or less natural and all they know. All you have illustrated is the power of media attention.
One of the leading boxers in Montreal right now was involved in alot worse in his early days. Likewise a kick-boxing champion from the early 1980's until someone virtually destroyed him.
Conversely there were kids that I coached who were viewed as candidates to kill or get killed before the age of 25 who turned out normal by most standards, living productive lives in their late thirties and forties. Similarly one of the gentlest guys that I played football with committed a double murder.
All of the above received little or no media attention.
Other than 20/20 hindsight there is no predictability.
Techman said:Dave Hilton Jr. served 5 years in prison for sexually assaulting his two daughters when they were under the age of 14. Since his release he has been in a revolving door to jail, constantly violating his parole and still keeps getting released. How long before this guy really loses it and seriously hurts or kills someone?
5 YEARS! For sexual assault on his own DAUGHTERS!!! This guy should be rotting in jail until he is too old to pose a threat to anyone.
Now tell me again how our justice system is not soft.
Techman
Poor example. You have a family where the kids were taught to fight from the time they were toddlers. Their physicality is more or less natural and all they know. All you have illustrated is the power of media attention.
One of the leading boxers in Montreal right now was involved in alot worse in his early days. Likewise a kick-boxing champion from the early 1980's until someone virtually destroyed him.
Conversely there were kids that I coached who were viewed as candidates to kill or get killed before the age of 25 who turned out normal by most standards, living productive lives in their late thirties and forties. Similarly one of the gentlest guys that I played football with committed a double murder.
All of the above received little or no media attention.
Other than 20/20 hindsight there is no predictability.
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Speaking of Texas
Well the DallasNews did change their stance on the death penalty so some do change their minds.
One interesting thing to note here, among others, is that states with the death penalty do not have lower violent crime rates than those without. In fact they are often higher.
Well the DallasNews did change their stance on the death penalty so some do change their minds.
One interesting thing to note here, among others, is that states with the death penalty do not have lower violent crime rates than those without. In fact they are often higher.
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