The Joe.T Memorial Yankees Suck Thread for 2007

[EagerBeaver]

Korbel,

Under the present system, the Tigers went from a 120 loss team in 2003 to American League champs in 2006. They did not do that by spending money. They did it because their young pitchers began to develop. This is the way it has always been in baseball. I believe in MLB. I do not believe in communism. The systems they have in place in the other major sports leagues will not work in baseball. The owners know this, MLB knows this, and of course the MLPA, which is very powerful, will never allow it.

Baseball is played the same way now as it always has been, with the exception that speed has been slightly de-emphasized as a major component of most teams' offenses. No teams exist like the KC Royals of the late 1970s or the Cardinals of the 1980s, which won championships with speed. This is kind of sad and a by-product of the era of power baseball we have entered. It also may be a function of the black athlete migrating to other sports. But the truth is I was never a fan of those teams or their style of play. Give me my Bronx Bombers. That is the style baseball I like to watch. The bashing of inferior pitching, the hitting of tape measure homers and doubles off the wall.

IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT! I am a baseball purist and I don't want to see communism infiltrate the sport. It will never happen. NO chance, not as long as attendance is where it is and the Yankees and Red Sox keep winning.

 

[korbel]

Ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Korbel,

Under the present system, the Tigers went from a 120 loss team in 2003 to American League champs in 2006. They did not do that by spending money. They did it because their young pitchers began to develop. This is the way it has always been in baseball. I believe in MLB. I do not believe in communism. The systems they have in place in the other major sports leagues will not work in baseball. The owners know this, MLB knows this, and of course the MLPA, which is very powerful, will never allow it.

Baseball is played the same way now as it always has been, with the exception that speed has been slightly de-emphasized as a major component of most teams' offenses. No teams exist like the KC Royals of the late 1970s or the Cardinals of the 1980s, which won championships with speed. This is kind of sad and a by-product of the era of power baseball we have entered. It also may be a function of the black athlete migrating to other sports. But the truth is I was never a fan of those teams or their style of play. Give me my Bronx Bombers. That is the style baseball I like to watch. The bashing of inferior pitching, the hitting of tape measure homers and doubles off the wall.

IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT! I am a baseball purist and I don't want to see communism infiltrate the sport.

Hello EB,

Your characterization of a salary cap as "communist" is ridiculous laughable demagoguery. Obviously you are entitled to your views as much as anyone. But you sound crazy using this word. You also have a distorted view of what makes a baseball purist. A baseball purist loves strategy and the perfection of all the game's aspects, not just a massacre. But you are a Yanker's fan. That's all too obvious.

Yikes,

Korbel

 

[EagerBeaver]

Korbel,

Someone appointed you to be Robin Hood, taking from the haves and giving to the have nots? Is that for you to do, Korbel? Was it for Lenin and the Bolsheviks to do that in 1917 when his henchmen executed the Tsar Nicholas and his family? Yes, communism is a taking from the haves and giving what you take to the have nots. That is what you are proposing to do in baseball. In my book that is called larceny if looked at legally, communism if looked at politically or socially. In your book though, it's okay to take from someone and give what you take to someone else? What "ethics" justifies this? It is immoral. It is wrong. And it is evil. You may believe that playing Robin Hood is ethical, I say it is wrong to take things that do not belong to you.

And by the ways, baseball does this already to some limited extent with the luxury tax.

 

[korbel]

Korbel,

Someone appointed you to be Robin Hood, taking from the haves and giving to the have nots? Is that for you to do, Korbel? Was it for Lenin and the Bolsheviks to do that in 1917 when his henchmen executed the Tsar Nicholas and his family? Yes, communism is a taking from the haves and giving what you take to the have nots. That is what you are proposing to do in baseball. In my book that is called larceny if looked at legally, communism if looked at politically or socially. In your book though, it's okay to take from someone and give what you take to someone else? What "ethics" justifies this? It is immoral. It is wrong. And it is evil. You may believe that playing Robin Hood is ethical, I say it is wrong to take things that do not belong to you.

And by the ways, baseball does this already to some limited extent with the luxury tax.

Hello EB,

You are being totally ridiculous. Your characterization of this issue is insane and you sound like a neurotic relic of the 50's red-baiting hysteria. I have never come across such hypochondria and demagoguery before unless I was dealing with a religious zealot. Baseball is a sport not a game of monopoly. You now can have this utterly ludicrous line of posting to yourself. I will not respond to any more of your posts containing such neurosis.

Yuk!

Korbel

 

[Joe.t]

4.0 and counting...

Yes yes and yes my man, isn't there a very smart person who predicted this slide a looooooooooonnnnnnnnnngggggggg time ago.

Gagne i love you man!!! you can't pitch worth shit you useless piece of cow manure, if it came down to a hot dog eating contest i would put my money on Gagne but baseball is a different story, if i were Terry i would put Gagne in a clean up situation when the game is well in hand and not when it is on the line.

 

[Special K]

if i were Terry i would put Gagne in a clean up situation when the game is well in hand and not when it is on the line.

At this point I agree, he's definitely going through a difficult time and am not sure what the fuck Francoma was thinking bringing him in, either today OR on Friday when the 8th began with two lefties batting for Baltimore. Either way, I hope he learns his lesson and quick!

 

[Joe.t]

At this point I agree, he's definitely going through a difficult time

Ya i know i feel sorry for rumples too, i just hope that the delusional knucklehead isn't taking this slide too hard.

 

[korbel]

Ya i know i feel sorry for rumples too, i just hope that the delusional knucklehead isn't taking this slide too hard.

Hello Joe. t,

You are priceless. You get nearly everything WRONG all year then claim "genius" when coincidence finally turns your way...temporarily. Good luck in your unique sideways universe...lol.

Bronx cheers,

Korbel

 

[Doc Holliday]

They interviewed Gagne after the game & he admitted to having cost his team two wins this weekend & having totally fucked up. I give the guy credit for not making any excuses, facing the press & admitting he sucked. A stat i saw tonight on the news showed that Gagne has already nearly matched his earned runs total with the Red Sox as compared to his time spent with the Rangers. I hadn't really checked his record with the Rangers until now & it is indeed true that he was having a rather fine season so far. It's hard to figure out what went wrong in the last week or so. Maybe it's all in his mind & he simply can't pitch well unless he's the closer. If i were the Red Sox, i'd send him to see a sports psychologist & fast!

 

[Special K]

I hadn't really checked his record with the Rangers until now & it is indeed true that he was having a rather fine season so far. It's hard to figure out what went wrong in the last week or so. Maybe it's all in his mind & he simply can't pitch well unless he's the closer. If i were the Red Sox, i'd send him to see a sports psychologist & fast!

This is the reason the Sox / Yanks/ and other teams were after him. He was having a phenomenal season, converting 16 of 17 save opportunities and an ERA in the low 2's, must be that dirty Boston water.

Call Epstein and idiot all you want but there isn't a GM in baseball that wouldn't have made the same trade.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

The best bullpen in baseball just blew two games out of 3 in Baltimore.

And still the best bullpen in baseball, better than .50 run per game better than any other save San Diego. On the subject of if it ain't broke don't fix it, Francoma mismanaged the bullpen this weekend and HE not Going Going Gagne blew two games to the Orioles, utterly spoiling Special K's weekend of barbecue and baseball.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Never knew you to be a red-baiter, Beav. On the subject of salary cap, I'm in total agreement with almost every word in Bob Costas' great book, Fair Ball. In it, Costas suggests both a salary cap and a salary floor, and a minimum percent of total revenues spent on player salaries.

Baseball has a special place in our society. It is not a democracy. It is a dictatorship run by a Commisar, oops, Commissioner, oops, Omissioner and is exempt from the Anti-Trust laws designed to keep corporate America honest and fair. (OK, so they don't always work.) As such, it also needs special regulation.

And as for socialism, what's so bad about socializing some stuff that needs socializing. We have socialized schools, highways, cops, and more. Why not baseball. On Saturday, a breathtaking young friend and I went to see Michael Moore's new movie, Sicko, and learned that, among other things, life spans in other western countries that have socialized medicine also have considerably longer lifespans than does the US. And that all the bugaboos re: national health care that red baiters in the US spew like robots are nothing short of bullshit. As we left the theater, my gorgeous young companion turned to me and asked, "What's a deductible?"

 

[korbel]

This is the reason the Sox / Yanks/ and other teams were after him. He was having a phenomenal season, converting 16 of 17 save opportunities and an ERA in the low 2's, must be that dirty Boston water.

Call Epstein and idiot all you want but there isn't a GM in baseball that wouldn't have made the same trade.

Hello Special K,

I don't know why things are so bad for Gagne after doing so well before the trade. But Francona sure blew it this time. If Gagne had made one bad pitch that lost the game the night before I could see giving him another chance. But he has been almost completely inept. How can Francona risk such a close game with a currently inept pitcher the day after he blew it so badly???

perplexed,

Korbel

 

[korbel]

Never knew you to be a red-baiter, Beav. On the subject of salary cap, I'm in total agreement with almost every word in Bob Costas' great book, Fair Ball. In it, Costas suggests both a salary cap and a salary floor, and a minimum percent of total revenues spent on player salaries.

Hello Rumpleforeskiin,

To say that fair standards and fair play in baseball is communism. That was one of the strangest and saddest connections I ever heard of. Being intelligent obviously doesn't prevent anyone from having a severe blind spot of irrationality. It's spooky. I never knew the NFL, NHL, and NBA were communist.

Bizzare,

Korbel

 

[eastender]

Baseball is a Team Game

Overlooked by all the Gagne bashers on both sides of the Red Sox / Yankee debate is that a very basic baseball truism surfaced - walking the lead-off hitter in an inning comes back to haunt you.

Okajima started the inning by walking the lead-off hitter Patterson thereby changing how the inning is managed and defensed. After Markakis hit into an FC Gagne replaced Okajima and was tagged for a two-run homer by Tajeda on a 3 - 2 pitch.

The irony is that Okajima gets a H (hold) which will be viewed positively in contract negotiations down the road while Gagne gets tagged with a B (blown save). Another reason why the Hold stat is misleading.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Call Epstein and idiot all you want but there isn't a GM in baseball that wouldn't have made the same trade.

You're absolutely correct with that statement. It reminds me of the Blue Jays & AJ Burnette. Last night during the game whom Burnette was pitching in, the Jays announcers were talking about the criticism JP Ricciardi (Jays GM) directed towards him in regards to signing Burnette to an expensive 5-year contract last year. Burnette so far has pitched very well & sometimes has been great, but he's been injury prone since his arrival in Toronto. One of the announcers (either Darren Fletcher or Jamie Campbell) correctly indicated that his detractors are the first to forget that at the time, Burnette was THE most sought-after free agent in baseball & most of the big teams were all after him when the Jays scooped him up. That it was a no-brainer for the Jays to sign him when they were able to lure him to Toronto.

I see the same situation in Boston now in regards to Gagne. He was having a very good season in Texas at the time & only an idiot wouldn't have traded for him (if the price was right) when he became available, especially considering the fact that the other team in the bidding war were their arch-ennemy Yankees. It was simply a case of the price being right if you were Boston & Gagne being too expensive (Melky Cabrera, etc) if you were the Yankees. If i were Boston, i would have made the trade right away since they didn't mortgage their future by doing it. If i were Cashman, i wouldn't have made the trade since i would have considered the price too high, no matter how good Gagne would have panned out.

 

[korbel]

Yes...of course.

Overlooked by all the Gagne bashers on both sides of the Red Sox / Yankee debate is that a very basic baseball truism surfaced - walking the lead-off hitter in an inning comes back to haunt you.

Okajima started the inning by walking the lead-off hitter Patterson thereby changing how the inning is managed and defensed. After Markakis hit into an FC Gagne replaced Okajima and was tagged for a two-run homer by Tajeda on a 3 - 2 pitch.

The irony is that Okajima gets a H (hold) which will be viewed positively in contract negotiations down the road while Gagne gets tagged with a B (blown save). Another reason why the Hold stat is misleading.

Hello Eastender,

I agree with most of this, but it is Gagne who has been totally inept. Okajima did make those poor pitches, and he deserves some blame justly, but he has been magnificent most of this year too. Gagne has been atrocious and he has an extremely poor outs per batter ratio. Everyone has bad days. But where is Gagne's first good one after several appearances? Yes, there were other players who hold some responsibility for the results of these games. But when a pitcher like Gagne fails to do his job every time, and can barely even get an out at all, he deserve to be the main lightning rod of blame...fair or not. It is reasonable to expect to see SOME success by him.

Bronx Cheers,

Korbel

 

[Doc Holliday]

On the subject of salary cap, I'm in total agreement with almost every word in Bob Costas' great book, Fair Ball. In it, Costas suggests both a salary cap and a salary floor, and a minimum percent of total revenues spent on player salaries.

I also agree with Bob Costas that a salary cap & salary floor would be the way to go for MLB. In other major sports, the salary cap has created parity among the majority of teams & this has been a blessing for nearly every team's fan base. Right now, baseball is doing very well financially & in attendance, but i believe it could do even greater if they'd have a salary cap in place. The present problem with baseball is that at the start of every season, you can pretty well scratch out three-quarters of the teams from having a chance to win the pennant, and pretty well being able to put down 6 teams who will be contending all season long. What kind of a league is that? Sure, the Yankees have spent like crazy & never won anything lately, but they're still contending for most of the season & the fact they've been able to spend as much as they have on superstar players is very frustrating to the majority of baseball fans. The fact these wealthy baseball teams have thrown all these millions to many of these players (Ichiro being the exception) is what has contributed to an image problem for the league & its players. When you have the homerun king repeatedly telling reporters & anyone else to fuck off & leave him alone, well, i wouldn't see any other pro league putting up with that kind of b.s. It makes me wonder if Pacman Jones can't play baseball?

Bottom line, a salary cap is the way to go in order to improve baseball & maintain its fan base. Last night, i was watching the KC/Jays game with a relative of mine & he noticed that the stadium (in KC) appeared empty for the most part of the game. I told him the plain truth in the fact fans can't be expected to come to the game day after day for all season long when they know for a fact that from the first pitch thrown to start the season, that their team has nearly zero chances to contend against the likes of the Yankees, Boston, etc. It's surprising teams like Pittsburgh & Tampa Bay still have a decent fan base. A few years back, i had pretty much stopped watching baseball until the Toronto team got sold to Ted Rogers & he immediately announced he'd start pouring money into the team in order to make it competitive again. My other favorite team at the time, the Expos, were struggling the keep the team from going down & i totally lost interest when it was taken over by MLB & they were keeping all expenditures at a minimum. It was a miracle (and a great manager in Felipe Alou) that they were still able to contend at all.

I agree that its important for MLB that teams such as Boston & NY remain contenders, but NOT having a salary cap to preserve this is not the way to go. These teams will regularly remain contenders since they have the budgets & tradition to attract good baseball people to run their teams. These teams will also always maintain their fan base & might even be more appreciated (i speak about the Yankees here) & well-liked if they'd manage to win a pennant & contend under the rules of a salary cap. Trust me, i know how people like EB feel about a salary cap since i felt the same way about it (okay, comparing it to communism is far-fetched) before the NHL imposed one on its players. I'm a Leafs fan & the Leafs are possibly the wealthiest team in the NHL & always had the money to attract high-priced talent & be able to trade for them prior to the league's trade deadline. Money was never any object. Well, when the league managed to impose the salary cap onto other teams & players following a long lock-out, i was pissed! However, i understood the need for one & hoped it could achieve its original goals & intentions. Well, to be truly honest, its been great for the league & great for hockey in general. It's been a success, to say the least, and even if it was somewhat destructive to the success of the wealthier teams & made it harder to win, i'm all for it.....even if it means that my Leaf team will not win a championship for many years to come & will at best only be competitive for the next few years at least. But for the sake of hockey & my love for the game, i welcome the salary cap.

 

[eastender]

NFL Salary Cap Chronological Order

I could also state the same reasons i mentionned in regards to the NFL & my love for the Buffalo Bills. There is no way the Bills would have made it to 4 consecutive Super Bowls in the 90's without the salary cap in place.

The Buffalo Bills last appeared in the 1994 Super Bowl after the 1993 season.
The NFL introduced the salary cap for the 1994 season.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

It's surprising teams like Pittsburgh & Tampa Bay still have a decent fan base.

Pittsburgh's a great baseball town, though small. TB does not have a decent fan base. Ex-patriots turn out to see the Red Sox, Twins, Yankees, etc.

What should be noted as well is that the Yanks and Sox are winning this year because of home-grown talent, not the expensive superstar. Were in not for Cano, who is a superstar, Wang, a solid 2-3 guy in a rotation, Cabrera, a Gold Glover were he not in competition with Crisp, plus the additions of Hughes and Chamberlain, the Yanks would be struggling to play .500 ball.

Where would the Sox be without Youkilis, Papelbon, Pedroia, and the cheap guys, Wakefield and Okajima?

The Yankees have spent $60,000,000 more than any other team in baseball. They should win 120 games easy. The simple fact is that dollar for dollar, they suck. The Yanks will spend over $2M for every win this year, the Sox about 75% of that, The Tampa Bay Devil Rays 1/4 of that.

How's that for efficiency, Beav? By the way, welcome back to the thread. We missed you when your team was 10 games back.