The Joe.T Memorial Yankees Suck Thread for 2007

[Joe.t]

I posted facts. What is stupid about posting facts? Do you have a rebuttal?

The frustration of the Yankees kicking ass like crazy and creeping up on his beloved Red Sox is his rebuttal, him along with SK and Korbel are shaking in their boots after watching Hughes and Chamberlain pitch the lights out while Gagne stinks the joint out, and lord knows whats going on with poor old btyger, i hope its nothing serious as he's a good guy but can be a little too emotional at times.

 

[EagerBeaver]

joe.t,

The financial numbers are what they are for the Yankees and Red Sox. They are outspending the rest of the teams in major league baseball. It is sheer hypocrisy for the fans of either team to start talking about payroll because these payrolls are on a different level from the rest of the teams. And these payrolls stem from the revenues of these teams. You cannot pay for that which you cannot afford. Only a handful of teams - perhaps 4 - can even think of adding A-Rod to their rosters next year. I am skeptical about the Cubs because they spent a lot of money this past year and I am not sure they can afford what A-Rod will ask for.

What is interesting is that if the Red Sox played in a stadium with seating capacity of 55,000, it's possible that they would be very close to the Yankees in revenue and also be in a position to outspend the Yankees. The Yankees will move into a new stadium in 2009 which has more luxury/corporate boxes and this move is likely to improve the revenues of the team. As things stand now, the Red Sox are spending competitively with a much smaller stadium even if they sell out all their home games. The Yankees will sell out and draw almost 20,000 more fans every game over the Red Sox.

 

[EagerBeaver]

The Greatest Hobbyist In Baseball History

The greatest hobbyist in baseball history was also the greatest player in baseball history: Babe Ruth. Today's New York Post, Page 6 published a review about a book called "Five O Clock Lightning" by Harvey Frommer, which chronicles Babe Ruth's hobbying activities. Here is Richard Johnson's review of the book which comes out in November:

August 12, 2007 -- THE Yankees had their hands full with the Alex Rodriguez scandal a few months back, but A-Rod's alleged dalliances with a busty blonde don't hold a candle to the wild and unquenchable sex life led by home-run king Babe Ruth in the 1920s, a new book on the Bronx Bombers reveals.

The Sultan of Swat bedded an endless parade of women, regularly visited whorehouses, and considered his sex organ and and his home-run bat his two greatest assets, according to "Five O'Clock Lightning," which chronicles the legendary,World Series-winning Yankee team of 1927.

"Liquor, women, partying and sex were always present . . . and where George Herman Ruth was always at the top of his game," writes Harvey Frommer, whose book hits stores in November.

Ruth routinely held wild parties jammed with young beauties in hotels on the road. During one bacchanalian bash, Frommer says, "Seizing the moment, savoring the time, perhaps a bit tipsy, the Babe climbed atop a piano and bellowed at the women, 'OK, girls, anyone who does not want to get [bleep]ed now can leave!' "

When he traveled with the Yanks, one of Ruth's favorite brothels was the oddly named "House of the Good Shepherd" in St. Louis. "Babe exiting the whorehouse would always stop off next door at a bakery at about five in the morning and gulp down a dozen freshly baked donuts. He could never get his fill," Frommer relates.

He says Ruth's favorite women were "mostly prostitutes, who in the 1910s and 1920s spoke of themselves as 'sporting girls.' They certainly were sport for Ruth, who had the telephone numbers of the girls in all the big cities. He also knew intimately the red-light districts in even the smallest towns."

Frommer also quotes baseball historian Fred Lieb as explaining: "Babe was inherently a phallus worshipper . . . His phallus and his home-run bat were his prize possessions, in that order."

Oddly, Ruth's extraordinary sexual appetite was in sharp contrast with that of his teammate Lou Gehrig. "Ill at ease in the company of women, viewed as a virgin by reporters and teammates, the young Gehrig spent as many nights as possible with his parents," Frommer writes.

 

[korbel]

Whatever.

Korbel,

You keep bringing up revenue and payroll but are you aware that the Red Sox actually have a higher "spendthrift percentage" than the Yankees do, at least for the 2006 season which is the most recent season for which we can calculate it?

Spendthrift percentages are determined by calculating the ratio of payroll to operating revenue for the prior year. To wit:

In 2005, the Yankees had revenues of 277 million dollars and the Red Sox had revenues of 206 million dollars. reference: Forbes Magazine http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/33/Rank_1.html

In 2006, the Yankees spent $189,639,045 million on payroll and the Red Sox spent $143,026,214 million on payroll. Reference:http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/salaries

Do the math. The Yankees spent 68.5% of their 2005 revenue on payroll in 2006. The Red Sox spent 69.4% of their 2005 revenue on payroll in 2006. Giving the Red Sox a higher spendthrift ratio.

This is no different an analysis Korbel than calculating what we spend on hobbying in relation to our salaries. If you and I both make $125,000 per year, but you spend $30,000 on hobbying annually while I only spend $25,000, who is the bigger spendthrift hobbyist?

Regarding your comments on A-Rod going to Boston, that will only happen if the Red Sox offer him as much or more than what the Yankees will offer him. And how many other major league teams will even be able to participate in that conversation?????????? Do you really need me to answer this question?

Don't let the facts get in the way of your posting,

EB

Hello EB,

I understand what you are saying and I will accept your figures without any research on my part. So given your figures you are saying that the difference in the ratio of revenues spent between the teams .9% is the significant figure we should measure all spending on...hmmm. Nonsense. There were 11 Yankers players being paid over $10,000,000 a year to just 3 for the Red Sox in 2006. That is extremely significant, especially when you realize that at any one time two of your $10,000,000 palyers have to sit. There is the fact that the Yankers are spending three times in salary what some teams spend. Then there is the simplest and most critical fact of all that because there is not salary cap and the Yankers have the largest or second largest local population base in baseball they can afford to spend more than anyone and do every year. You can emphasize the ratio aspect as much as you like, even though the difference is so small it is a pitiful difference. But there is no getting around the truth that the Yankers abuse the lack of a salary cap far more than anyone...and still CAN'T WIN! The Clemens episode is a prime example of the truth. More money, more marquis players...or duds as the case may be. Don't let these FACTS get in the way of YOUR posting. But, I am glad we are talking about baseball because insinuating Steinboner is a "spendthrift" takes a LOT of BALLS! Bwahahaha...after what he spent for "batting practice Roger"...bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Relating baseball to the hobby is a misdirection. Baseball is a sport and sport is supposed to be a contest of skill and strategy starting on an even playing field and not an exploitation by the team(s) who have the biggest wallets.

As for A-Rod, I hope the Yankers win. He would just stink up a Sox uniform.

Money for nothing,

Korbel

 

[EagerBeaver]

Korbel,

And because there is no salary cap in baseball and the Red Sox have the second highest revenue in baseball, they can afford to outspend everyone except one team, and that's exactly what they have done. Do you really believe that the Red Sox would be where they are right now if they had not spent what they have spent, on players like Daisuke Matsuzaka for example? With a salary cap, do you believe the Red Sox would have been in a position to outbid everyone for Dice-K as they did? Would they have certainly been able to sign him? Of course not. They would simply have been on level playing ground with everyone else, something they are not, so it is completely hypocritical to act as though they are. You think the Dice K signing is not a major abuse of the lack of a salary cap? Did the KC Royals have any chance of signing Dice K, although they also needed a front of the rotation starter?

Regarding winning, you must totally discount regular season games and playoff appearances in which the Yankees have won more than anyone for a long time now. And that the Yankees have the most World Series wins in baseball in the last 15 years. It's already been well discussed that a high payroll will only get you into the playoffs, and that's what the Yankees have done 12 straight years, would be 13 if there were playoffs in 1994. The Red Sox have won all of one World Series despite a number of playoff appearances. The teams will continue to both make the playoffs as long as they can both stay in the top 5 in payroll. It won't guarantee a championship for either team. Which does keep things interesting for everyone as far as the playoffs are concerned.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

I posted facts. What is stupid about posting facts? Do you have a rebuttal?

I didn't say you didn't quote facts, just that the facts you quoted were silly and meaningless. Did you know that the Detroit Tigers have the best winning percentage in baseball on the road when there are between 7,000 and 7,250 people in the ballpark? That the Cleveland Indians have a losing record when they get fewer than 6 hits? Them's facts.

 

[EagerBeaver]

A poster who wishes to remain anonymous has sent me the PM quoted below and gave me express written permission to publish his PM in this thread, albeit anonymously, pertaining to the discussion of salary cap in this thread:

"I won't list all the elements nor will I post at this time since I do not wish to get into a pissing match with some of the self-proclaimed experts.

The issues of a salary cap or a level playing field where skill and strategy are all that matter are utter nonsense.

In leagues with a salary cap - NFL, certain teams such as Detroit and Arizona are hopelessly mismanaged while Cincinnati and the NY Jets and a few others are slightly better. In the NBA the Knicks,Celtics,Clippers and to an extent the Nets illustrate that being in the large markets has no bearing on success.

Skill and strategy include using financial assets to the best of your ability and the risk/return ratio(often overlooked).

BTW - major difference between the Yankees and the Red Sox this year is that the Red Sox added a bit of team speed while the Yankees did not."

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

In leagues with a salary cap - NFL, certain teams such as Detroit and Arizona are hopelessly mismanaged while Cincinnati and the NY Jets and a few others are slightly better. In the NBA the Knicks,Celtics,Clippers and to an extent the Nets illustrate that being in the large markets has no bearing on success.

I couldn't agree more. When you consider the amount of money the Yankees have to work with year in and year out, for them to EVER win fewer than 110 games, they would have to be (and have been) horribly mismanaged.

BTW, your poster may be anonymous but his prose style is a remarkable mimic of that of Eastender.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

BTW - major difference between the Yankees and the Red Sox this year is that the Red Sox added a bit of team speed while the Yankees did not."

Yes, a difference, but far from the major difference. The major difference is that the Sox have the best bullpen in baseball, while the Yanks' pen has been a weak point. The biggest difference has been the emergence of Manny Delcarmen and the appearance of Hideki Okajima.

BTW, an article in the Boston Globe points out that Daisuke Matsuzaka has been the best pitcher in the AL since June 15. It also points out his lack of offensive support.

 

[korbel]

A poster who wishes to remain anonymous has sent me the PM quoted below and gave me express written permission to publish his PM in this thread, albeit anonymously, pertaining to the discussion of salary cap in this thread:

The issues of a salary cap or a level playing field where skill and strategy are all that matter are utter nonsense.

In leagues with a salary cap - NFL, certain teams such as Detroit and Arizona are hopelessly mismanaged while Cincinnati and the NY Jets and a few others are slightly better. In the NBA the Knicks,Celtics,Clippers and to an extent the Nets illustrate that being in the large markets has no bearing on success.

Skill and strategy include using financial assets to the best of your ability and the risk/return ratio(often overlooked).

BTW - major difference between the Yankees and the Red Sox this year is that the Red Sox added a bit of team speed while the Yankees did not."

Hello EB,

Thanks for relaying the message from "anonymous". There should be one ironclad rule about posting. Post under your own name. Don't be a nameless COWARD! The justification used here for not writing a reply in the open is ridiculous if you are an adult. If you don't want to reply openly then don't use others. This might be a bit more understandable if someone was banned adn wanted to make a piont. But if not banned it's pure cowardice...nothing esle, and you EB should not be aiding and abetting. You're a good man EB. Why help someone shame himself? Let someone grow some bolts instead of sulking behind a screen anonymously and hiding behind others.

No one implied a level playing field or a salary cap would erase mismanagment. But for 8 teams in baseball to have assets in salary under $60,000,000 while the Yankers spend more than 3 times as much at $194,000,000 is a travesty of sports integrity. I am not saying the Sox are much better than anyone. But this situation is a joke and to imply it is fair and balanced competiton or in any way proper makes no logical sense whatsoever. Yes, "Skill and strategy include using financial assets to the best of your ability...". But is there any true competition between a team with $15,000,000 and a team with $194,000,000. That's a 13-1 ratio my friend. It's almost like giving only every 13th hitter a bat to hit with. It's monopoly not competition. If you don't understand that, you probably just like this advantage of being a Yankers fan.
http://www.onestopbaseball.com/TeamPayroll.asp 2006

Don't hide,

Korbel

 

[EagerBeaver]

the Sox have the best bullpen in baseball

The best bullpen in baseball just blew two games out of 3 in Baltimore.

 

[korbel]

Korbel,

And because there is no salary cap in baseball and the Red Sox have the second highest revenue in baseball, they can afford to outspend everyone except one team, and that's exactly what they have done. Do you really believe that the Red Sox would be where they are right now if they had not spent what they have spent, on players like Daisuke Matsuzaka for example? With a salary cap, do you believe the Red Sox would have been in a position to outbid everyone for Dice-K as they did? Would they have certainly been able to sign him? Of course not. They would simply have been on level playing ground with everyone else, something they are not, so it is completely hypocritical to act as though they are. You think the Dice K signing is not a major abuse of the lack of a salary cap? Did the KC Royals have any chance of signing Dice K, although they also needed a front of the rotation starter?

Hello EB,

I fully realize how the Red Sox have benefitted from the lack of a salary cap. I tell you this now and I won't ever retract it. I would prefer to have a salary cap and all that could imply to the Red Sox or any team that has an unfair advantage because of their far greater financial assets. I have been a Patriots fan since 1970 and went through 31 years of heartbreak and humiliation without fleeing to another team. To me the fact that the Patriots won with their brains under the burden of a salary cap makes them greater than all the 26 wins of the Yankers. I support a salary cap 100% whatever it does to any team. Without it some baseball teams are something like players who are "juiced" and I know the Yankers and Sox are two of them. So don't think I am in some sort of dream world about which teams are "juiced" and which aren't. These mega-deals have always made me uncomfortable and I have often had a bad taste about the Sox acting like Yankers when it comes to these deals. But it's a catch 22. Should we sit back and watch the Yankers abuse the system and run away with the race or fight back. Obviously the Yankers have no qualms about it.

When it comes to hypocrisy, where do you fall on the issue of a salary cap???? Are you just spitballing to show others their faults or do you support the salary cap too?

Hmmmmmm?

Korbel

 

[Doc Holliday]

Gagne blows another one....Yankees now 4 games back of Red Sox

He did it again! Or should i say, he blew one again:

Boston blows lead & loses 6-3 to Orioles on Millar homerun

• Summary: Eric Gagne had another rough outing for the Red Sox, blowing an eighth-inning lead by allowing a tying home run by Miguel Tejada as the Orioles went on to beat Boston in extra innings.

• Hero: Kevin Millar, who burned his former team by hitting a three-run, walkoff home run in the bottom of the 10th inning off Kyle Snyder.

• Goat: Gagne, who has been far from the shutdown reliever the Red Sox thought they were getting at the trade deadline. He has allowed seven runs in four innings over seven games for Boston.

-- ESPN.com news services

 

[korbel]

He did it again! Or should i say, he blew one again:

Boston blows lead & loses 6-3 to Orioles on Millar homerun

• Summary: Eric Gagne had another rough outing for the Red Sox, blowing an eighth-inning lead by allowing a tying home run by Miguel Tejada as the Orioles went on to beat Boston in extra innings.

• Hero: Kevin Millar, who burned his former team by hitting a three-run, walkoff home run in the bottom of the 10th inning off Kyle Snyder.

• Goat: Gagne, who has been far from the shutdown reliever the Red Sox thought they were getting at the trade deadline. He has allowed seven runs in four innings over seven games for Boston.

-- ESPN.com news services

Hello Doc,

Geeeez what a useless piece of crap Gagne has become. He blows another very good game for the starter. Somebody get this guy a peanut vendors position...DAMN!

Peeeeeeuuuuuuuu,

Korbel

 

[EagerBeaver]

Korbel,

You have not read my other posts in this thread where I have consistently stated I am against a salary cap in baseball as I believe it is communism and would be the ruination of the league. The Yankees and the Red Sox have to be successful for the league to be successful - in fact it is a running joke at both ESPN and in the offices of MLB ( have friends who work at both places). And there is not much more I need to say in order to prove my point than this: baseball attendance is at AN ALL TIME HIGH. Would you ask MLB to ignore this, install a form of communism in a sport that has always been run as a business, and expect the same level of interest (especially from the east coast media) when the Yankees and Red Sox are reduced to playing on a level field? NO, you would not. Nor can you ignore people at ESPN who say there are the Yankees and the Red Sox, and then there are all the other major league teams.

IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT. I am sure that even Rumples, with his leftist leaning inclinations, would agree with this very basic business principle.

If you change it, watch the lucrative cable deals disintegrate, watch people not show up at games because there are no longer predictable rivalries, and watch the sport die. This is totally apart from the practical matter of the MLPA never allowing it.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Peeeeeeuuuuuuuu,
Korbel

Your best quote in the entire thread. By the ways, the NY Post today reported that after the Red Sox made their offer on Gagne, the Rangers called up Cashman and said that if he did not include Ian Kennedy as part of the Yankees package, they were going through and trading Gagne to the Red Sox. Cashman apparently said "fuck no", and then hung up the phone on this threat. The truth is Cashman called the Rangers bluff because the Yankees had already decided to use Chamberlain as a set up man, and were trying to bluff the Rangers into parting with Gagne for nothing.

They say that sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make. Ian Kennedy, the third of the Yankees triumvirate of young jewel pitchers, was going to be called up to start on Tuesday against the Orioles if the Yankees had to use Jeff Karstens this weekend. Because the Yankees clobbered an ineffective Cleveland team which did not hit, pitch or field this weekend, Karstens was not used, so apparently he, and not young Ian, the Yankees first round pick who is dominating in the minors, will start Tuesday.

 

[eastender]

Selective Presentation

I couldn`t agree more. When you consider the amount of money the Yankees have to work with year in and year out, for them to EVER win fewer than 110 games, they would have to be (and have been) horribly mismanaged.

BTW, your poster may be anonymous but his prose style is a remarkable mimic of that of Eastender.

Please review your the following two links:

https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=17467&page=61

also

https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=17467&page=62

You will notice that we(under your previous handle of regnad) had an exchange about team speed.Hence your conclusion. You did not refer to this.

Will reserve comment about your "style" comment until it is appropriate.

 

[EagerBeaver]

BTW, your poster may be anonymous but his prose style is a remarkable mimic of that of Eastender.

Rumples,

Without commenting specifically on prose styles, I always said you should have been an English professor. If Yeats had sent me that PM, would you have been able to ID him as the sender? How about Tennyson? Kipling?

 

[korbel]

Korbel,

You have not read my other posts in this thread where I have consistently stated I am against a salary cap in baseball as I believe it is communism and would be the ruination of the league.

Hello EB,

I did miss your position on the salary cap previously. "COMMUNISM"...LOL...I can see why you are a Yankers fan. That's where the most money is. "COMMUNISM"...geeeez EB, what are you currently drinking, smoking, or shooting. I can understand the points of a financial argument...but..."COMMUNISM"...damn, so the NFL, NHL, and NBA are all communist organizations. I don't have the skill to tell you how bad you look using that word. Setting up conditions to balance fairer competition in sports is NOT communism...LOL!!!!!!!!!!! Yes I would love to have every team on as balanced a playing field as possible as I have already written for all to see. That's sports with integrity. This is the second time I have said it and the first was a pledge. So how can you think my posiition would be anything else. I think your characterization of a salary cap as communist is NUTS! With profits as your only ethic anything can be justified by just having the funds to do it. Since everything is for the profit motive you must support steroids to boost stats too??? It only follows.

"Communism"...ridiculous,

Korbel

 

[korbel]

They say that sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make. I

Hello EB,

Yes, that would sum up the Yankers deal with Clemens perfectly...lol.

Enjoy,

Korbel