Give your head a shake. Why would Marleau go from the penthouse to the out house? He's playing for a top team on a line with Thornton and Heatley, you think he has any interest in going to Toronto to play for Rompin' Ronnie (assuming Wilson is still coach) and a soft perimeter player like Kessel?
The Official M.E.R.B. Hockey Thread
- Thread starter Doc Holliday
- Start date
- Status
I said that back on September 19, before the season started - the Leafs still have a shot at finishing in 30th place if the Oilers get hot!
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I find the links posted by members in this thread quite informative. Why not hand out warnings and suspensions to offenders rather than close this and the other sports threads?
Hello all,
Doc, you're kidding right. Two hockey threads whose titles prove their purpose is F'tards, and plenty of it in the third...c'mon. And there are more members doing it in the hockey threads. Even Joe.t and I stay away. Not that it matters which threads are worse; it's still a matter of this crap going on at all. Some humor isn't the problem in any sports threads (baseball, hockey or whatever as I said before), but the habitual mindless insulting to see who can put the other down more...DAMN, what a pile of useless childish bickering garbage.
Agreed.
True the baseball thread has been a trash-talking sewer in which you, I, and others have been enabling, though I'm not sure it started there. Where it started doesn't matter, and if allowed it will take off, but if anyone who is trying to blame "bad behavior" on fans of another sport as a rationale for what is going on in a different sports' thread then I would ask why aren't they being responsible for themselves regardless of what others are doing??? Remember, Joe.t and I are not in the hockey threads goading anyone. So, if anyone has been a part of the garbage in both baseball and hockey threads then they should ask themselves why, especially those who have complained about the baseball thread and keeping doing it elsewhere.
As I've already said, it doesn't matter who, what, or where it started or it's going on. What do YOU, meaning "you" as in all members reading this, want?
Cheers,
Merlot
Doc, you're kidding right. Two hockey threads whose titles prove their purpose is F'tards, and plenty of it in the third...c'mon. And there are more members doing it in the hockey threads. Even Joe.t and I stay away. Not that it matters which threads are worse; it's still a matter of this crap going on at all. Some humor isn't the problem in any sports threads (baseball, hockey or whatever as I said before), but the habitual mindless insulting to see who can put the other down more...DAMN, what a pile of useless childish bickering garbage.
Agreed.
True the baseball thread has been a trash-talking sewer in which you, I, and others have been enabling, though I'm not sure it started there. Where it started doesn't matter, and if allowed it will take off, but if anyone who is trying to blame "bad behavior" on fans of another sport as a rationale for what is going on in a different sports' thread then I would ask why aren't they being responsible for themselves regardless of what others are doing??? Remember, Joe.t and I are not in the hockey threads goading anyone. So, if anyone has been a part of the garbage in both baseball and hockey threads then they should ask themselves why, especially those who have complained about the baseball thread and keeping doing it elsewhere.
As I've already said, it doesn't matter who, what, or where it started or it's going on. What do YOU, meaning "you" as in all members reading this, want?
Cheers,
Merlot
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Leafs continue to sink after Olympic break
Oscar night came with a familiar script for the Toronto Maple Leafs this season.
The Eastern Conference's worst team ... simply could not skate... The Maple Leafs have not won back-to-back games since now departed goalie Vesa Toskala backstopped the team to wins over Washington on Dec. 12 and over Ottawa on Dec. 14, a span of 32 games and 82 days.
http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/story.html?id=2652575
Oscar night came with a familiar script for the Toronto Maple Leafs this season.
The Eastern Conference's worst team ... simply could not skate... The Maple Leafs have not won back-to-back games since now departed goalie Vesa Toskala backstopped the team to wins over Washington on Dec. 12 and over Ottawa on Dec. 14, a span of 32 games and 82 days.
http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/story.html?id=2652575
“lifetime Leafs’ fan - just absolutely disgusted.”
Dan Asquini, a west-end realtor and retired government worker who has been a Leafs’ fan his entire 69 years. We have maybe seven bona fide NHLers and one top-six forward. If we’re an American Hockey league team and you can get top of the line tickets for twenty-five to fifty bucks why should I be paying this kind of money for a team when only 30% of the roster is NHL calibre.”
Asquini had a pair of greys at Maple Leaf Gardens, lived down the street from Harold Ballard and has watched his favourite team struggle for decades but this, he says, is the worst. And, I’m just absolutely disgusted.
“I just see the bonehead things they’re doing. Two first-rounders and a second for KESSEL? COME ON! I don’t think that’ll ever look good,” says Asquini.
“That’s what’s sickening. That’s what is so terrible about where this team is going. I just threw up my hands,” says Asquini.
http://www.torontosun.com/sports/columnists/bill_lankhof/2010/03/05/13133341.html
Dan Asquini, a west-end realtor and retired government worker who has been a Leafs’ fan his entire 69 years. We have maybe seven bona fide NHLers and one top-six forward. If we’re an American Hockey league team and you can get top of the line tickets for twenty-five to fifty bucks why should I be paying this kind of money for a team when only 30% of the roster is NHL calibre.”
Asquini had a pair of greys at Maple Leaf Gardens, lived down the street from Harold Ballard and has watched his favourite team struggle for decades but this, he says, is the worst. And, I’m just absolutely disgusted.
“I just see the bonehead things they’re doing. Two first-rounders and a second for KESSEL? COME ON! I don’t think that’ll ever look good,” says Asquini.
“That’s what’s sickening. That’s what is so terrible about where this team is going. I just threw up my hands,” says Asquini.
http://www.torontosun.com/sports/columnists/bill_lankhof/2010/03/05/13133341.html
Hello gohabsgo,
This is the hockey thread, not the Leafs bashing thread. The last time I checked there were 30 teams in the NHL and this thread is meant for discussion of all of them. There is already a thread that is geared to bashing the Leafs as well as one for bashing the Canadiens. I see no reason for you to continue making posts in this thread that are made for no other purpose than to stir up reactions from Leaf fans. Please make such posts in the appropriate thread in the future. Any future copy and paste posts of this nature will be deleted without warning as they serve no purpose in this thread.
M8
This is the hockey thread, not the Leafs bashing thread. The last time I checked there were 30 teams in the NHL and this thread is meant for discussion of all of them. There is already a thread that is geared to bashing the Leafs as well as one for bashing the Canadiens. I see no reason for you to continue making posts in this thread that are made for no other purpose than to stir up reactions from Leaf fans. Please make such posts in the appropriate thread in the future. Any future copy and paste posts of this nature will be deleted without warning as they serve no purpose in this thread.
M8
Bruins call for suspension after Savard hit
The Boston Bruins made it to Toronto for an optional practice in time for Tuesday night’s game against the Leafs, but Marc Savard did not.
Their concussed star returned to Boston with his coach and teammates calling for Pittsburgh’s Matt Cooke to be suspended for the blindside hit that left Savard out cold on the ice and carried off on a stretcher.
“You can’t go around hurting guys; there should be something done,” said Bruins defenceman Johnny Boychuk, one of five Bruins to take part in an optional practice after the Leafs at the MasterCard Centre.
“If it’s a blindside hit, if you’re giving the hit, you can hit the guy body on body. When it’s a hit from behind, you could kill somebody, end a guy’s life or career or paralyze somebody.
The head shot, you can get a concussion from that, you could die from brain damage.”
Teammate Vlad Sobotka says Cooke should be punished.
“That guy, Cooke, should be suspended. It should be an automatic penalty. I’m surprised refs didn’t call it.”
Head shots were suddenly on everybody’s mind.
It was top of the agenda for the general managers meeting this week in Florida, where they’re considering introducing measures that will see fewer players like Savard carried off in stretchers after blindside hits to the head.
League disciplinarian Colin Campbell was under the gun to levy some sort of punishment on Cooke.
Leafs assistant coach Tim Hunter felt sorry for Savard.
“Checking and hitting to the head, shoulder on shoulder, shoulder to chest, twist your torso and drive your shoulder into a guy, but a shoulder to a guy’s head, that’s a headshot, that’s what’s got to be eliminated,” said Hunter. “The Cooke hit on Savard was a blindside shot. All these people who say: ‘It’s a physical game, you’ve got to have you’re head up, you’ve got to know who’s on the ice.’ How is Savard to know that Cooke’s coming from behind to hit him in the head.
“When you’re en route to hit a guy, you’re the guy who can make the adjustments not the guy who doesn’t even know you’re coming. Savard has no idea where Cooke was and Cooke is on his way to hit Savard.”
Bruins head coach Claude Julien, however, wants the GMs to eliminate the headshot.
“That’s probably the classic blindside hit to the head,” Julien told the Bruins website. “I’m usually pretty reserved in making comments, and definitely the league will take care of it and you have to trust that they’ll make the right decision.
“But it was a blindside hit to the head and that’s exactly what we’re trying to get rid of.
“A guy like that has to be suspended. And that’s the way I see it, because it’s an elbow to the head from the blindside. That’s exactly the example they show of what we’ve got to get out of this game. We had a guy who’s got a concussion, our best player, and he’s going to be out for a while. He was out on the ice for a bit and that’s unacceptable.”
The Boston Bruins made it to Toronto for an optional practice in time for Tuesday night’s game against the Leafs, but Marc Savard did not.
Their concussed star returned to Boston with his coach and teammates calling for Pittsburgh’s Matt Cooke to be suspended for the blindside hit that left Savard out cold on the ice and carried off on a stretcher.
“You can’t go around hurting guys; there should be something done,” said Bruins defenceman Johnny Boychuk, one of five Bruins to take part in an optional practice after the Leafs at the MasterCard Centre.
“If it’s a blindside hit, if you’re giving the hit, you can hit the guy body on body. When it’s a hit from behind, you could kill somebody, end a guy’s life or career or paralyze somebody.
The head shot, you can get a concussion from that, you could die from brain damage.”
Teammate Vlad Sobotka says Cooke should be punished.
“That guy, Cooke, should be suspended. It should be an automatic penalty. I’m surprised refs didn’t call it.”
Head shots were suddenly on everybody’s mind.
It was top of the agenda for the general managers meeting this week in Florida, where they’re considering introducing measures that will see fewer players like Savard carried off in stretchers after blindside hits to the head.
League disciplinarian Colin Campbell was under the gun to levy some sort of punishment on Cooke.
Leafs assistant coach Tim Hunter felt sorry for Savard.
“Checking and hitting to the head, shoulder on shoulder, shoulder to chest, twist your torso and drive your shoulder into a guy, but a shoulder to a guy’s head, that’s a headshot, that’s what’s got to be eliminated,” said Hunter. “The Cooke hit on Savard was a blindside shot. All these people who say: ‘It’s a physical game, you’ve got to have you’re head up, you’ve got to know who’s on the ice.’ How is Savard to know that Cooke’s coming from behind to hit him in the head.
“When you’re en route to hit a guy, you’re the guy who can make the adjustments not the guy who doesn’t even know you’re coming. Savard has no idea where Cooke was and Cooke is on his way to hit Savard.”
Bruins head coach Claude Julien, however, wants the GMs to eliminate the headshot.
“That’s probably the classic blindside hit to the head,” Julien told the Bruins website. “I’m usually pretty reserved in making comments, and definitely the league will take care of it and you have to trust that they’ll make the right decision.
“But it was a blindside hit to the head and that’s exactly what we’re trying to get rid of.
“A guy like that has to be suspended. And that’s the way I see it, because it’s an elbow to the head from the blindside. That’s exactly the example they show of what we’ve got to get out of this game. We had a guy who’s got a concussion, our best player, and he’s going to be out for a while. He was out on the ice for a bit and that’s unacceptable.”
True words from 1 of the NHL's hardest working and most respected GM's
There are no regrets in Toronto Maple Leafs general manager Brian Burke’s world for the first- and second-round picks he gave up to acquire Phil Kessel.
In the wake of spending the NHL’s trade deadline day as a seller and further cementing one of those picks as likely to be among the top three in this year’s draft, the blustery GM reiterated his oft-made point that it’s a deal he would make again even if he knew Toronto’s picks would be so high.
Burke said his only concern is idling his scouts for the first few hours of this year’s draft.
“Scouts are the hardest workers in our business and they have a very unique job where they work 365 days a year for two days of performance,” said Burke. “And then the GM trades away a bunch of picks. It drives me nuts to watch them sit there. That’s the only angst I have about this deal.”
That is not to say Burke enjoys being the second-worst team in the NHL standings and using the trade deadline to build for the future instead of the present.
“Being a seller sucks,” he said. “I’d much rather be a buyer.”
One area Burke will have the opportunity to buy is in the U.S. college free agent market, one of his favourite places to pick up players.
“You just stumble on an asset that doesn’t cost you anything but money,” said Burke. “It’s like finding a wallet.”
Burke said he thinks the fact that two of last year’s college free agents — forwards Christian Hanson and Tyler Bozak — are skating with the Leafs will induce members of this year’s crop to sign with Toronto.
There is also the fact Toronto’s lowly position in the standings means there is not much established talent on hand.
“You know they used to say join the navy and see the world?” said Burke. “Well if you want to play in the National Hockey League and you’re a college free agent, I would have to guess it would be attractive to free agents and say there is opportunity here.”
As for what types of players he wants to sign, the frustrated GM said all positions were open.
“We’re looking at forwards, we’re looking at defencemen, we’re looking at goaltenders,” he said. “If they come up with a new position, we’ll look at those, too.”
There are no regrets in Toronto Maple Leafs general manager Brian Burke’s world for the first- and second-round picks he gave up to acquire Phil Kessel.
In the wake of spending the NHL’s trade deadline day as a seller and further cementing one of those picks as likely to be among the top three in this year’s draft, the blustery GM reiterated his oft-made point that it’s a deal he would make again even if he knew Toronto’s picks would be so high.
Burke said his only concern is idling his scouts for the first few hours of this year’s draft.
“Scouts are the hardest workers in our business and they have a very unique job where they work 365 days a year for two days of performance,” said Burke. “And then the GM trades away a bunch of picks. It drives me nuts to watch them sit there. That’s the only angst I have about this deal.”
That is not to say Burke enjoys being the second-worst team in the NHL standings and using the trade deadline to build for the future instead of the present.
“Being a seller sucks,” he said. “I’d much rather be a buyer.”
One area Burke will have the opportunity to buy is in the U.S. college free agent market, one of his favourite places to pick up players.
“You just stumble on an asset that doesn’t cost you anything but money,” said Burke. “It’s like finding a wallet.”
Burke said he thinks the fact that two of last year’s college free agents — forwards Christian Hanson and Tyler Bozak — are skating with the Leafs will induce members of this year’s crop to sign with Toronto.
There is also the fact Toronto’s lowly position in the standings means there is not much established talent on hand.
“You know they used to say join the navy and see the world?” said Burke. “Well if you want to play in the National Hockey League and you’re a college free agent, I would have to guess it would be attractive to free agents and say there is opportunity here.”
As for what types of players he wants to sign, the frustrated GM said all positions were open.
“We’re looking at forwards, we’re looking at defencemen, we’re looking at goaltenders,” he said. “If they come up with a new position, we’ll look at those, too.”
Hate the Bruins and its good news to the Habs that Savard is out probably for the rest of the season but Cooke should deff be suspended.
Bettman's vision questionable
By Stephen Brunt (The Globe and Mail)
You need visionary leadership, and right now, hockey in general, and the NHL in particular, finds itself at such a crossroads
There are times, in professional sport and elsewhere, when you need more than a competent manager. You need visionary leadership, and right now, hockey in general, and the NHL in particular, finds itself at such a crossroads.
If that wasn't obvious before the 2010 men's Olympic tournament, it certainly was by the time the festivities in Vancouver concluded with the storybook finish in the gold-medal game.
In a lifetime, there have been precious few perfect expressions of the sport's beauty – its speed, finesse and physical power – and just about all of those have involved international competition in one form or another (including the fondly remembered New Year's Eve clash between the Montreal Canadiens and Central Red Army in 1975).
Obviously, it's a whole lot easier to create and maintain those high-end aesthetics with only the best players in the world on the ice, in a limited time frame with enormous emotional stakes. But still, coming back to earth with the resumption of the NHL's 2009-10 regular season was a most unpleasant thud, watching hopeless teams going through the motions, remembering that staged fights are highlights, sensing the league's Olympians were dealing with their own hangovers.
Hockey consumers encompassing the entire spectrum from passionate to casual would agree the Vancouver Games experience was something to be savoured – and to be repeated as soon as possible.
Outside of this continent, the exposure and the veneer of significance garnered through the Olympics (or through a true World Cup, if the league and the players could ever get their act together) are invaluable. Though hockey will never translate globally, it already has a strong foothold in enough attractive European markets to offer possibilities unavailable to North American sports other than basketball. The potential is there, far more than it is in Phoenix or Nashville.
And yet with the sport's fans swooning all around him, the message from NHL commissioner Gary Bettman before, during, and after the 2010 Olympics was a studied indifference. He couldn't sound too enthused, because he is in the business of peddling a very different (and inferior) product. His employers, the franchise owners, a great many of whom seem to retain the mindset of old-school arena operators from previous generations, are less interested in the macro aspects of broadening the sport's base than they are in their own immediate bottom lines.
There's nothing in the Olympics for them, they believe. It means two weeks without product for their loyal customers and potential damage to some of their most valuable assets. The big money from the Games flows elsewhere, so they're hardly the most enthusiastic disciples of Pierre de Coubertin.
Representing their narrow interests, Bettman has made it clear he will use the possibility of future Olympic participation not as a building block, but as a point of leverage with the players, hoping to secure concessions in the next round of collective bargaining. They'll be in Sochi in 2014, as they desire, but only after they've given something back in return for the privilege.
In the meantime, Bettman is operating a sports business which is unique in that its culmination event – the Stanley Cup final – isn't as much of a destination as a gimmick game played outdoors in baseball or football stadiums in mid-season (imagine if a retro-uniform game in the NFL was bigger than the Super Bowl). And he is still working under a more than two-decades-old business plan, based on the long-outmoded notion that aggressive expansion into non-traditional markets in the United States would result in network television riches.
(As for the other side of the equation, the players – well, given the chaos in their union, just who does speak for them right now? And how could anyone discern their collective feelings about anything?)
What a thing it would be for hockey to have someone at the helm who could ride the momentum from the Olympics, who could grab the owners by their lapels and say forget your dead-end ideas, now is the time to take a leap, to think internationally and reap big rewards down the road. Someone who could forge a relationship with the players based on real mutual interests rather than threats.
Why leave Europe to the KHL, close the doors opened by the Olympic experience, when the alternative is the same-old, same-old game of diminishing returns?
Barring a remarkable transformation, Bettman just isn't that guy. And for hockey and those who love it, that's too bad.
By Stephen Brunt (The Globe and Mail)
You need visionary leadership, and right now, hockey in general, and the NHL in particular, finds itself at such a crossroads
There are times, in professional sport and elsewhere, when you need more than a competent manager. You need visionary leadership, and right now, hockey in general, and the NHL in particular, finds itself at such a crossroads.
If that wasn't obvious before the 2010 men's Olympic tournament, it certainly was by the time the festivities in Vancouver concluded with the storybook finish in the gold-medal game.
In a lifetime, there have been precious few perfect expressions of the sport's beauty – its speed, finesse and physical power – and just about all of those have involved international competition in one form or another (including the fondly remembered New Year's Eve clash between the Montreal Canadiens and Central Red Army in 1975).
Obviously, it's a whole lot easier to create and maintain those high-end aesthetics with only the best players in the world on the ice, in a limited time frame with enormous emotional stakes. But still, coming back to earth with the resumption of the NHL's 2009-10 regular season was a most unpleasant thud, watching hopeless teams going through the motions, remembering that staged fights are highlights, sensing the league's Olympians were dealing with their own hangovers.
Hockey consumers encompassing the entire spectrum from passionate to casual would agree the Vancouver Games experience was something to be savoured – and to be repeated as soon as possible.
Outside of this continent, the exposure and the veneer of significance garnered through the Olympics (or through a true World Cup, if the league and the players could ever get their act together) are invaluable. Though hockey will never translate globally, it already has a strong foothold in enough attractive European markets to offer possibilities unavailable to North American sports other than basketball. The potential is there, far more than it is in Phoenix or Nashville.
And yet with the sport's fans swooning all around him, the message from NHL commissioner Gary Bettman before, during, and after the 2010 Olympics was a studied indifference. He couldn't sound too enthused, because he is in the business of peddling a very different (and inferior) product. His employers, the franchise owners, a great many of whom seem to retain the mindset of old-school arena operators from previous generations, are less interested in the macro aspects of broadening the sport's base than they are in their own immediate bottom lines.
There's nothing in the Olympics for them, they believe. It means two weeks without product for their loyal customers and potential damage to some of their most valuable assets. The big money from the Games flows elsewhere, so they're hardly the most enthusiastic disciples of Pierre de Coubertin.
Representing their narrow interests, Bettman has made it clear he will use the possibility of future Olympic participation not as a building block, but as a point of leverage with the players, hoping to secure concessions in the next round of collective bargaining. They'll be in Sochi in 2014, as they desire, but only after they've given something back in return for the privilege.
In the meantime, Bettman is operating a sports business which is unique in that its culmination event – the Stanley Cup final – isn't as much of a destination as a gimmick game played outdoors in baseball or football stadiums in mid-season (imagine if a retro-uniform game in the NFL was bigger than the Super Bowl). And he is still working under a more than two-decades-old business plan, based on the long-outmoded notion that aggressive expansion into non-traditional markets in the United States would result in network television riches.
(As for the other side of the equation, the players – well, given the chaos in their union, just who does speak for them right now? And how could anyone discern their collective feelings about anything?)
What a thing it would be for hockey to have someone at the helm who could ride the momentum from the Olympics, who could grab the owners by their lapels and say forget your dead-end ideas, now is the time to take a leap, to think internationally and reap big rewards down the road. Someone who could forge a relationship with the players based on real mutual interests rather than threats.
Why leave Europe to the KHL, close the doors opened by the Olympic experience, when the alternative is the same-old, same-old game of diminishing returns?
Barring a remarkable transformation, Bettman just isn't that guy. And for hockey and those who love it, that's too bad.
Concussions can't be eliminated completely
By David Shoalts (The Globe and Mail)
“It's not hits to the head, it's shoulder [hits] to the head,” Colin Campbell said. “We've taken everything else out. Now, the question really is: Do you want to take shoulder hits to the head out of hockey?”
When it comes to the NHL's efforts to reduce concussions and eliminate head shots, there really is just one target, according to the league's director of hockey operations.
“It's not hits to the head, it's shoulder [hits] to the head,” Colin Campbell said Monday after the first day of the annual general managers' meetings. “We've taken everything else out. Now, the question really is: Do you want to take shoulder hits to the head out of hockey?”
Campbell's point was all other forms of illegal contact with a player's head are covered by NHL rules. The latest controversial hit, for example, was subject to the rule banning players from using an elbow to make a hit – even though Matt Cooke of the Pittsburgh Penguins was not penalized for using his elbow to leave Marc Savard of the Boston Bruins with a concussion last Sunday.
At present, a body check using the shoulder is legal in most circumstances. The problem is many of the worst hits to the head seen by the league GMs in video presentations are the result of a shoulder check.
An NHL spokesman said part of the report presented to the GMs yesterday involved a study of 21 games earlier this season. All kinds of contact with players' heads were recorded, from light blows to hard checks. The average number of contacts with the head was 22 per game – 30 per cent of them were from the shoulder to the head. Of those 22, only an average of one per game resulted in a penalty.
Those kinds of numbers are why many GMs argue that eliminating head shots without taking too much hitting out of the game is difficult. “The hits are great until someone gets hurt,” Campbell said.
At least one GM vowed it will not be done because of outside pressure.
“I don't want to hurt your feelings, but I don't care what sports writers think,” said Brian Burke of the Toronto Maple Leafs. “The public pressure, the media pressure, should never be a factor in how you address the game.”
There was a sense yesterday in talking to some GMs and NHL staff that they were feeling defensive about public criticism over the handling of the issue.
“Everybody should realize we are not dealing in a vacuum,” Nashville Predators GM David Poile said. “We do not have our heads in the sand.
“There will be steps to reducing head injuries in the National Hockey League. I think we will definitely make progress. Some people think this just happened recently. We want to make it clear we have been talking about this for the last 20 years. It's a tough area to get an agreement on.”
Burke, and several of his peers, argued the league has managed to eliminate most of the nasty stick work – which had been a high-profile issue in the past – through the supplementary discipline of suspensions.
“We can do the same thing with blindside hits [to the head] if we're careful how we add it,” the Leafs GM said.
Suring yesterday's session, the entire group of 30 general managers heard a report from the league's hockey operations department on concussions and head shots, and an update on an ongoing study by an NHL committee chaired by Calgary-based concussion expert Dr. Winne Meeuwisse.
Meeuwisse and his colleagues showed some video footage of players suffering 200 concussions over the last three and a half years, and told the GMs about treatment protocols and testing.
Meeuwisse said the study showed concussions happen in every area of the ice surface and from all forms of contact (shoulders, elbows, sticks) with the head. The only identifiable trend, the doctor said, was “defensive players were injured more in the defensive zone than offensive players.”
Today, a working group of eight GMs will study the issues in greater depth and make a report to the rest of their colleagues, likely tomorrow. Any recommendations for rule changes or new rules are expected tomorrow, and would have to go through the NHL's competition committee and then the League governors for approval.
As part of the presentation, the GMs were told that, in one NHL season, there are between 60,000 and 70,000 contacts between players that are classified as hits. Of those, about 20 are considered serious head shots, mostly from the blindside.
“We have to be very careful,” New Jersey Devils GM Lou Lamoriello said. “This is a physical game.”
Meeuwisse said the physical nature of hockey means there will always be concussions.
“I don't think we can eliminate concussions completely,” he said. “What we have to do is make them a small fraction [of the current numbers].
By David Shoalts (The Globe and Mail)
“It's not hits to the head, it's shoulder [hits] to the head,” Colin Campbell said. “We've taken everything else out. Now, the question really is: Do you want to take shoulder hits to the head out of hockey?”
When it comes to the NHL's efforts to reduce concussions and eliminate head shots, there really is just one target, according to the league's director of hockey operations.
“It's not hits to the head, it's shoulder [hits] to the head,” Colin Campbell said Monday after the first day of the annual general managers' meetings. “We've taken everything else out. Now, the question really is: Do you want to take shoulder hits to the head out of hockey?”
Campbell's point was all other forms of illegal contact with a player's head are covered by NHL rules. The latest controversial hit, for example, was subject to the rule banning players from using an elbow to make a hit – even though Matt Cooke of the Pittsburgh Penguins was not penalized for using his elbow to leave Marc Savard of the Boston Bruins with a concussion last Sunday.
At present, a body check using the shoulder is legal in most circumstances. The problem is many of the worst hits to the head seen by the league GMs in video presentations are the result of a shoulder check.
An NHL spokesman said part of the report presented to the GMs yesterday involved a study of 21 games earlier this season. All kinds of contact with players' heads were recorded, from light blows to hard checks. The average number of contacts with the head was 22 per game – 30 per cent of them were from the shoulder to the head. Of those 22, only an average of one per game resulted in a penalty.
Those kinds of numbers are why many GMs argue that eliminating head shots without taking too much hitting out of the game is difficult. “The hits are great until someone gets hurt,” Campbell said.
At least one GM vowed it will not be done because of outside pressure.
“I don't want to hurt your feelings, but I don't care what sports writers think,” said Brian Burke of the Toronto Maple Leafs. “The public pressure, the media pressure, should never be a factor in how you address the game.”
There was a sense yesterday in talking to some GMs and NHL staff that they were feeling defensive about public criticism over the handling of the issue.
“Everybody should realize we are not dealing in a vacuum,” Nashville Predators GM David Poile said. “We do not have our heads in the sand.
“There will be steps to reducing head injuries in the National Hockey League. I think we will definitely make progress. Some people think this just happened recently. We want to make it clear we have been talking about this for the last 20 years. It's a tough area to get an agreement on.”
Burke, and several of his peers, argued the league has managed to eliminate most of the nasty stick work – which had been a high-profile issue in the past – through the supplementary discipline of suspensions.
“We can do the same thing with blindside hits [to the head] if we're careful how we add it,” the Leafs GM said.
Suring yesterday's session, the entire group of 30 general managers heard a report from the league's hockey operations department on concussions and head shots, and an update on an ongoing study by an NHL committee chaired by Calgary-based concussion expert Dr. Winne Meeuwisse.
Meeuwisse and his colleagues showed some video footage of players suffering 200 concussions over the last three and a half years, and told the GMs about treatment protocols and testing.
Meeuwisse said the study showed concussions happen in every area of the ice surface and from all forms of contact (shoulders, elbows, sticks) with the head. The only identifiable trend, the doctor said, was “defensive players were injured more in the defensive zone than offensive players.”
Today, a working group of eight GMs will study the issues in greater depth and make a report to the rest of their colleagues, likely tomorrow. Any recommendations for rule changes or new rules are expected tomorrow, and would have to go through the NHL's competition committee and then the League governors for approval.
As part of the presentation, the GMs were told that, in one NHL season, there are between 60,000 and 70,000 contacts between players that are classified as hits. Of those, about 20 are considered serious head shots, mostly from the blindside.
“We have to be very careful,” New Jersey Devils GM Lou Lamoriello said. “This is a physical game.”
Meeuwisse said the physical nature of hockey means there will always be concussions.
“I don't think we can eliminate concussions completely,” he said. “What we have to do is make them a small fraction [of the current numbers].
Why you ask? Same reason as to why anyone would wanna play for a team like Montreal, $$$$ and one of the top Hockey markets in the World. hey it took big Money to get Cammy and Gionta to come there, and for all intense purposes, Gomez as well.. although all the hockey world is still trying to figure out why Gainey would of made that deal, lol..
Kessel Soft? whether he is soft or not is not the issue, which i dont think he is btw, but as long as he produces goals and points, thats what matters, as that is what he's being paid to do, and on a rebuilding team thats younger than any team in the NHL, he is doing just fine. i would say the sky is the limit for #81 once he gets those top linemates playing with him everynight. Bozak and He are starting to gel and only time will tell but he is on pace for 30 goals this season, having missed a dozen games or so due to a serious injury, plus not having the same linemates all season, i would say at 22 years of age, Mr. Kessel is well on his way to becoming a great player, and not just a good one, and just like Burke says, "id gladly make the trade for Kessel again in a heartbeat"
Kessel Soft? whether he is soft or not is not the issue, which i dont think he is btw, but as long as he produces goals and points, thats what matters, as that is what he's being paid to do, and on a rebuilding team thats younger than any team in the NHL, he is doing just fine. i would say the sky is the limit for #81 once he gets those top linemates playing with him everynight. Bozak and He are starting to gel and only time will tell but he is on pace for 30 goals this season, having missed a dozen games or so due to a serious injury, plus not having the same linemates all season, i would say at 22 years of age, Mr. Kessel is well on his way to becoming a great player, and not just a good one, and just like Burke says, "id gladly make the trade for Kessel again in a heartbeat"
I agree with you, Iggy. Gretzky, Lemieux, Brett Hull, Steve Yzerman, Joe Sakic, Jean Beliveau, Guy Lafleur, etc......all soft players. Yet, all great players. Sure, Kessel may be soft, but like you said, it's a non-issue. Scott Gomez, Mike Cammalleri, Brian Gionta, Tomas Plekanec & Andrei Markov are not soft? The league is full of skill players that are soft.....very few are not. Heck, all of San Jose's top line are soft! Thornton, Marleau, Heatley.......the league is full of them!
A lot of people were saying that Phil Kessel wouldn't be the same player without having a Marc Savard type of player to pass him the puck. Kessel is doing quite fine, i may say. Marc Savard? He's been a shadow of his ol' self without Kessel playing next to him & putting the puck in the net.
A case could be made that Kessel has meant more to Savard than the other way around. A very strong case, i may add.
A lot of people were saying that Phil Kessel wouldn't be the same player without having a Marc Savard type of player to pass him the puck. Kessel is doing quite fine, i may say. Marc Savard? He's been a shadow of his ol' self without Kessel playing next to him & putting the puck in the net.
A case could be made that Kessel has meant more to Savard than the other way around. A very strong case, i may add.
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Yup, totally agree......
Another thing made of the Kessel hype when he signed, people were saying he was a problem in the locker room, can you really see this guy being a problem in the Leafs locker room, long term? he barely says more than a few words when being intervied, he answers the questions politely and professionally with the same demeanor each and every time, kind of reminds me of Derek Jeter in that way. Maybe the fact of the way he was treated by Boston management is why he had a problem, if in fact he did. He was the last guy they tried to sign when he should of been the first guy signed, hello? maybe we all would feel a lil distant if it was us. But i dont think with the strong personalities like Komi, Beauch,Phaneuf and Giguere that #81 will get to full of himself.
Speaking of Phaneuf, has he been playing inspired hockey or what since he became a Leaf? and they have rewarded him with the "A" on his jersey already, and i think your looking at the next Leafs Captain and hopefully for many years to come.
Another thing made of the Kessel hype when he signed, people were saying he was a problem in the locker room, can you really see this guy being a problem in the Leafs locker room, long term? he barely says more than a few words when being intervied, he answers the questions politely and professionally with the same demeanor each and every time, kind of reminds me of Derek Jeter in that way. Maybe the fact of the way he was treated by Boston management is why he had a problem, if in fact he did. He was the last guy they tried to sign when he should of been the first guy signed, hello? maybe we all would feel a lil distant if it was us. But i dont think with the strong personalities like Komi, Beauch,Phaneuf and Giguere that #81 will get to full of himself.
Speaking of Phaneuf, has he been playing inspired hockey or what since he became a Leaf? and they have rewarded him with the "A" on his jersey already, and i think your looking at the next Leafs Captain and hopefully for many years to come.
Today's news around the NHL
Some GMs unhappy with Stajan contract
The Calgary Flames gave Matt Stajan a four-year, $14 million deal -- and opposing GMs were none too happy about it.
This deal, CBC's Elliotte Friedman reports, may have inflated the cost of players on the market this offseason. As one GM told Friedman, "That's going to make everyone else's job a lot harder."
Among the centers hitting the free agent market are Patrick Marleau and Olli Jokinen, who both already make more than Stajan. But the deal could affect the asking price from, say, Tomas Plekanec who currently makes $2.75 million and is negotiating an extension with the Habs. There's been buzz that he'll demand something around $5 million, and his stance may be more solid with Stajan's new deal. If the price gets too high for the Habs, look for Plekanec to test free agency.
Hodgson to Leafs?
On one hand, Cody Hodgson is the Vancouver Canucks top prospect. On the other hand, he's just a big headache for the Canucks' brass.
Hodgson is returning from a back injury that sidelined him most of the year, but now he has a foot injury that will keep him out a few weeks. Meanwhile, Hodgson is still with his junior team, the Brampton Battalion, and he expects to play in the OHL playoffs after he returns.
Following that, however, the Vancouver Province asked him if he would join the Canucks' AHL affiliate, the Manitoba Moose, and he said, "I don't look too far forward or too far back. I want to get my foot better and help the Brampton Battalion win."
Although the Canucks don't seem concerned, it doesn't sound as if Hodgson is dying to play in the AHL or even for the Canucks. That might be why rumors surfaced that they were possibly dealing him at this past trade deadline. One rumor had Hodgson going to the Toronto Maple Leafs for Tomas Kaberle -- a deal that could still be possible in the offseason -- but it might all depend on whether the Canucks' brass want to see what this youngster can do when healthy in an NHL uniform.
Cooke facing light suspension?
With all the talk surrounding Matt Cooke's hit on Marc Savard, there's speculation that Cooke will be handed a long suspension. But the NHL's discipline czar, Colin Campbell, hinted that a punishment may not be as heavy-handed.
He told The Fan 590 in Toronto (via NESN.com) that he didn't think it was an elbow-to-head hit. Instead, he said it was a shoulder-to-head hit.
"We just watched it for about an hour and a half, about eight of us," Campbell said.
This probably means that they'll come down lightly on Cooke, despite him being the latest poster boy of why the NHL needs to have stricter rules on headshots.
Some GMs unhappy with Stajan contract
The Calgary Flames gave Matt Stajan a four-year, $14 million deal -- and opposing GMs were none too happy about it.
This deal, CBC's Elliotte Friedman reports, may have inflated the cost of players on the market this offseason. As one GM told Friedman, "That's going to make everyone else's job a lot harder."
Among the centers hitting the free agent market are Patrick Marleau and Olli Jokinen, who both already make more than Stajan. But the deal could affect the asking price from, say, Tomas Plekanec who currently makes $2.75 million and is negotiating an extension with the Habs. There's been buzz that he'll demand something around $5 million, and his stance may be more solid with Stajan's new deal. If the price gets too high for the Habs, look for Plekanec to test free agency.
Hodgson to Leafs?
On one hand, Cody Hodgson is the Vancouver Canucks top prospect. On the other hand, he's just a big headache for the Canucks' brass.
Hodgson is returning from a back injury that sidelined him most of the year, but now he has a foot injury that will keep him out a few weeks. Meanwhile, Hodgson is still with his junior team, the Brampton Battalion, and he expects to play in the OHL playoffs after he returns.
Following that, however, the Vancouver Province asked him if he would join the Canucks' AHL affiliate, the Manitoba Moose, and he said, "I don't look too far forward or too far back. I want to get my foot better and help the Brampton Battalion win."
Although the Canucks don't seem concerned, it doesn't sound as if Hodgson is dying to play in the AHL or even for the Canucks. That might be why rumors surfaced that they were possibly dealing him at this past trade deadline. One rumor had Hodgson going to the Toronto Maple Leafs for Tomas Kaberle -- a deal that could still be possible in the offseason -- but it might all depend on whether the Canucks' brass want to see what this youngster can do when healthy in an NHL uniform.
Cooke facing light suspension?
With all the talk surrounding Matt Cooke's hit on Marc Savard, there's speculation that Cooke will be handed a long suspension. But the NHL's discipline czar, Colin Campbell, hinted that a punishment may not be as heavy-handed.
He told The Fan 590 in Toronto (via NESN.com) that he didn't think it was an elbow-to-head hit. Instead, he said it was a shoulder-to-head hit.
"We just watched it for about an hour and a half, about eight of us," Campbell said.
This probably means that they'll come down lightly on Cooke, despite him being the latest poster boy of why the NHL needs to have stricter rules on headshots.
Offsides, what happened to it?
Is it just me or has the whistling of offsides become just about obsolete unless it's BLATANTLY obvious? Kind of like the traveling call in basketball where you're allowed about 8 steps without dribbling now. Lol.
I've noticed a 100 times this season that they're not calling the borderline offsides anymore, from NHL to the Olympic games. Anyone else notice this?
The reason I mention this is as I watch the B's/ Leafs game now the B's just came into the zone 2 on 1 and were offside by a good foot or two without a call. Lol.
Is it just me or has the whistling of offsides become just about obsolete unless it's BLATANTLY obvious? Kind of like the traveling call in basketball where you're allowed about 8 steps without dribbling now. Lol.
I've noticed a 100 times this season that they're not calling the borderline offsides anymore, from NHL to the Olympic games. Anyone else notice this?
The reason I mention this is as I watch the B's/ Leafs game now the B's just came into the zone 2 on 1 and were offside by a good foot or two without a call. Lol.
I agree that the first 7 players you mentioned were great. I also totally agree that Kessel is soft.
As for the rest, however: Yzerman soft? You have GOT to be kidding! Same for Burnaby Joe and Le Gros Bill. All three of those guys had grit, integrity and toughness. You don't have to be a goon like Colton Orr to not be labelled soft!
As for Savard, it's not missing Kessel that's hurt him - it's repeated serious injuries. As for Kessel, he doesn't score a LOT of goals so it might be useful if he at least occasionally scored an IMPORTANT one - something he's only done once or twice this season. He was invisible in the Olympics and he ZERO points in 4 games against the Bruins this season - that's right: not just zero goals, but zero POINTS! Surely to God you'd think he'd be able to get up for a game against his former team but in four tries so far he hasn't been able to. Maybe tonight...since Savard and Chara are both out!
You're correct. I also heard or read somewhere at the beginning of the season that borderline offsides weren't going to be called anymore in order to maintain the flow of the game & speed it up.
I would add that Le Gros Bill had led the league in penalty minutes early in his carreer.At 6'4'' when the league's average was around 5'10 you could not intimidate him.He made a strong point during his first few seasons; don't mess with me!
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