The Trump Crime Family

[EagerBeaver]

This journalist’s murder having happened in a foreign consulate somewhat breaks new ground. It’s not really hard to see why the media has interest in this story apart from political considerations. Consulates were always thought of as sanctuaries for a country’s citizens. If there is precedent for a murder of a citizen in his own country’s consulate I am not aware of it.

I have no idea what you mean by “reasonable approach” as I feel all my posts take a reasonable approach according to how I see things.

 

[sambuca]

I have no idea what you mean by “reasonable approach” as I feel all my posts take a reasonable approach according to how I see things.

I don't recall all your comments here, but others here suffer greatly from Trump Derangement Syndrome. First, one post's criticism of Trump that they heard from a liberal media source. Then one ignores all countervailing evidence or hypocrisy even if it's fairly obvious. Then one keep's repeating it over and over again as if digging in will make it true.

 

[Like_It_Hot]

Then one keep's repeating it over and over again as if digging in will make it true.

That's the perfect illustration of trumpism.

 

[sambuca]

You might want to provide a specific illustration.

For a variety of reasons, the support that Trump engenders doesn't reach the same emotional pitch as it did for Obama. Obama supporters are all over social media chastising every Trump policy action while having extolled every action by Obama. The majority of media outlets strongly reinforce such simple partisan views.

Since I'm a practical guy, I've never seen a politician who didn't have to carry around political baggage from his extreme partisan supporters and his campaign donors. So it's hard for me to give credibility to endless attacks on every, single Trump action. International relations are the ultimate non-binary political quagmire as are other issues. So Obama good, Trump bad really oversimplifies the complexity of so many issues.

 

[Valcazar]

sambuca, I honestly can't understand your notion that Trump supporters don't have an emotional pitch that rivals Obama. It seems clear it is pitched vastly higher. We didn't have violent groups acting in the president's name. (Leave aside if you think Trump's rhetoric has anything to do with it. The Proud Boys and such claim they are doing stuff in Trump's name, regardless.)

You seem to interpret any criticism of Trump as partisan regardless of context. (As EB points out, Kashoggi was newsworthy due to the consulate issue and of interest to the press because it was one of their own.)
You seem to think Obama got constant good press as if he didn't have any criticism of policy choices in the mainstream press. (Lots of Obama policies were criticized and debated.)

I find it a strange, narrow view of the world.

 

[sambuca]

You seem to think Obama got constant good press as if he didn't have any criticism of policy choices in the mainstream press. (Lots of Obama policies were criticized and debated.)

The crazy guy in the van sent bombs without a detonator. That is the perfect example of liberal press bias. We had Republican Congressmen actually being shot on a ball field last summer. I can't quantify the magnitude of either incident because the two men were simply crazy. Trying to assess blame is missing the violence from crazies of all sides. Again, trying to assess blame is not really getting traction down here.

I wasn't particularly saying Kashoggi wasn't newsworthy. I'm just saying trying to hang the Saudi misdeeds on Trump was another liberal press fail. The initial reporting seemed to try to establish some type of Trump condonation. That our Saudi policy was a Trump initiative.

When was the press universally critical of President Obama? I know Fox and conservative radio were critical of his policies many times unfairly. From my perspective when you have major outlets like MSNBC, CNN, WaPo and NYTimes all trying to top each other on who can be more critical of Trump, you get excessively critical and sloppy reporting.

 

[sambuca]

Valcazar,
President Obama is worshipped on the Left like Reagan is on the Right. (For a historical anecdote, Obama never had electoral success for his party beyond his initial election and his 2012 re-election. Obama won in 2012 with 51% of the vote vs. Reagan who won re-election in 1984 with 59%. Reagan's party also convincingly won a third term.)

If you talk to Trump supporters (Do you?), they are very pragmatic about policies. I'm not talking about people at the extremes that blindly support any and every conservative policy. Most Trump supporters viewed him as the best choice versus the alternative. They do not look at him with the same reverence towards other historical conservative leaders, but they respect the fact that he fights for what he believes in.

President Obama did engender a certain universal faith in his policies whether it be Obamacare, Iran, Kyoto, Fossil Fuel, Regulation, Race Relations, etc. Of course you know with my view, I think the press failed Obama supporters for not delving into the details of the above policies. Most Obama supporters never understood the specifics of the policies because most of the press kind of put a seal of approval on them.

 

[Valcazar]

President Obama isn't remotely worshipped like Saint Ronnie. That's... a really weird statement. And certainly not by The Left. The left fringe in the US *hated* Obama. He was a sell out, a neoliberal, Obamacare was forced corporate subsidy of big insurance. He increased drone strikes and refused to arrest bankers after the 2008 crisis. TARP was mishandled and he bailed out moneyed interests and wall street instead of homeowners. A huge part of Bernie Sanders's appeal and pitch was about how badly Obama had done.

Yes, I have encountered Trump voters who are pragmatic about their vote. I wouldn't really call them "supporters" though. ( We can disagree on the labeling. ) Mind you, I find what they are pragmatic about to be a problem, since I think they assess the problems in the country incorrectly. Obviously you and I disagree on this.

As for your criticism of the press, I don't know what to say. If you don't think those programs were criticized, analyzed, and debated in the press, I can't help you. They certainly weren't given unqualified seals of approval.

 

[jalimon]

Valcazar, Sambuca, is there something between the left or the right in your mind? Everyone of your post focus on that. That's a major problem for me because life is not left or right. Black or white. Friend or enemy. Life is grey. Compromise is the only way to have groups of people living together in harmony.

Constantly having a win at all cost attitude is what will cost Trump and what will destroy america.

Cheers,

 

[sambuca]

Hey Bareback, it's good to hear from you again. You were missed.

 

[jalimon]

Thanks Sambuca. In my usual humility and honesty (and sarcasm) I will paraphrase Eminen and say... This board feels empty without me!

Bareback Haha... Good one!

Cheers,

 

[sambuca]

President Obama isn't remotely worshipped like Saint Ronnie. That's... a really weird statement.

http://www.people-press.org/2018/07...in-their-lifetime-followed-by-clinton-reagan/

Yeah, really weird.

 

[Carmine Falcone]

As if one needed any additional evidence that a large contingent of the MAGA set are essentially people so congenitally stupid there's probably some aneuploidy going on, just go read the truly remarkable and pathetically hilarious attempt to frame Robert Mueller on sexual harassment. Their plot unraveled faster than if you put all The Fast And Furious movie plots into one giant shit sandwich movie. They tried to frame Mueller for sexual harassment in New York on a day Mueller was actually in DC on jury duty. And they called themselves... Surefire Intelligence.:smile::smile:

 

[sambuca]

Yeah Carmine, the genius of Blasey Ford was she never gave a place or date. Once you pin those down, the accused might just have an alibi.

 

[sambuca]

If you still don't believe the major news outlets have a dog in the fight, NBC held back information that would have discredited a Kavanaugh accuser's story. Instead, they gave the crazy woman a long amount of airtime in a one-on-one interview. This would have never made it on the air if the accuser was accusing a liberal judge or politician.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...gh-saga/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.fb7a3b480de8

 

[jalimon]

Well it goes both ways... NBC hold back the info... But FOX recently had anchorman pretending the bomb threat sent to many news outlet (and even to robert de niro) were fake news and not real... Who's worst here ?

Cheers,

 

[sambuca]

I have no idea what and who you are referencing. I watched it live. Conservative news initially discussed the possibility of False Flags, but that was always a possibility in this day and age of political manipulation.

 

[sambuca]

Since you brought up violence, threats with press bias, the Liberal media is far more clever at making their biased points. Here was a vulgar and not so cloaked, biased attempt at threatening President Trump. I guess if you call it fiction, the NY Times can say it's permissible to publish.

"The New York Times was sharply criticized for publishing a fictional account of a Russian assassin shooting dead Donald Trump in a story described as an ‘assassination fantasy’ by observers."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...criticised-short-story-Donald-Trump-shot.html

 

[Valcazar]

Sambuca, you cannot possibly be serious in saying that was a veiled attempt by the NYTimes to threaten Trump. Or are you so anti free speech that no one is allowed to write fiction now? Fiction labeled as fiction? In the book review section. Online and not even in the paper.

This is a threat against Trump how, exactly? Come on. You are not this kind of fragile snowflake.

 

[sambuca]

Valcazar, you're completely ignoring that the criticism was real and published in various outlets. It's taken into context of the recent debate on political dialogue inflaming violence.

So yes, if the NY Times can partly blame Trump's rhetoric for the mail bomber, it's fair to criticize them for publishing an assassination fantasy. I honestly think there was a time something like this would not be published in a major "news" paper.

PS- I'm not saying it's a direct threat, but rather it's a threatening concept.