I'm not sure why this is a complicated question. Currently there's only 2 categories, indy vs agency. The main thing the separates the 2 is if the lady works for an agency with multiple girls or if she runs her own show. If she wants to hire a booker, driver, financial adviser etc... that's really up to her. Not sure why we're throwing in "true" indy. I saw folks saying they want to talk to "her". Well what if you book an indy with a another indy duo? Do you need to talk to both ladies or just set up the appointment? Seems like an topic that'll just go in circles, no matter now much it's discussed.
What is your definition of "Indy"?
- Thread starter BookerL
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That is why I do mostly incall.
And when I allow a girl to come to my place it is because we know each other since a while and there is a trustful relationship between us.
So, when we trust each other, if the girl has her own car, I let her drive to my place (Happened once only).
The other times, I pick up the girl somewhere and bring her home (She does not have to rent a room somewhere). (Happened quite a few time)
If the indy has an incall place (Hotel or Appt or Condo) I always visit her.
joshg72826,
People have different opions on the subject and this is normal. I don't see why it would go in circle.
For Many like you I guess, there are only Agency and Indy no matter what...
For me, and this is me, there are SP's without booker (What I would call TRUE indy) and SP's with booker (Agency or Indy wiht Booker).
Indy with booker is a little upgrade from agency.
For the girl point of view, there are all the advantage as explained by phil compared to agency.
They have their own ads. Price are also upgraded. But they are the same great girls for a clients point of view and are booked the same way as before.
So the real change in that case is for the SP.
People have different opions on the subject and this is normal. I don't see why it would go in circle.
For Many like you I guess, there are only Agency and Indy no matter what...
For me, and this is me, there are SP's without booker (What I would call TRUE indy) and SP's with booker (Agency or Indy wiht Booker).
Indy with booker is a little upgrade from agency.
For the girl point of view, there are all the advantage as explained by phil compared to agency.
They have their own ads. Price are also upgraded. But they are the same great girls for a clients point of view and are booked the same way as before.
So the real change in that case is for the SP.
I was on the fence about this Indy thread until I read the last few replies from Phil_W today and yes Phil your are very eloquent yet a bit harsh. This along with UnclBob's reasons for an Indy without a booker made me realize why I too prefer dealing directly with an Indy whom I repeat with at least once or twice a week is because of the flirtatious connection that develops during the booking process... BFE side of me. I do and gladly pay more per hour for this treatment as I realize that the Indy and I are actually flirting on her time, it's a form of foreplay where I'm concerned.
Good post Josh. To answer your question about why "some" guys feel the need to talk to the Indy herself beforehand is they are looking for discounts and they think they can more easily manipulate the lady versus her "male" booker (typical misogynistic behavior) and many of us know of guys like this. It is not about getting a feel for the date or to make the date and connection with the lady better, it is about being cheap and degrading the lady by pressuring her to offer much lower rates. Some might argue it is about setting a romantic tone or ambiance of the date but lets call a spade a spade. As a matter of fact, most of the Indy's i know are strong willed women and no guy is going to bully them into lower rates, kudos ladies. And i am not saying "setting the mood" for the date is wrong, not at all, i am just saying some guys main goal is more so to get lower rates and use the other as an excuse. If the lady offers a lower rate fine, but if not then do not insult her by continuing to ask.
I don't mean asking ONCE about a different rate, but from the stories i have heard from other Indy's and even Agencies, some guys do not stop at just ONE time asking for a lower rate and doing so more than once is a insult to the lady, and even doing so once is wrong if it clearly states on her ad or website that prices are Non Negotiable.
As far as Phil goes, i know Gabrielle well and trust me, she is the boss and Phil would be the first one to tell everyone so. He works for her and Jezabelle, not the other way around.
For the record i see absolutely nothing wrong with a "Indy" having a personal assistant or not, i still consider them INDY either way. It is easy for me to say that because i know Phil and Gabrielle very well and some of you dont and question what is what but in their case, trust me it is as i said above.
I don't mean asking ONCE about a different rate, but from the stories i have heard from other Indy's and even Agencies, some guys do not stop at just ONE time asking for a lower rate and doing so more than once is a insult to the lady, and even doing so once is wrong if it clearly states on her ad or website that prices are Non Negotiable.
As far as Phil goes, i know Gabrielle well and trust me, she is the boss and Phil would be the first one to tell everyone so. He works for her and Jezabelle, not the other way around.
For the record i see absolutely nothing wrong with a "Indy" having a personal assistant or not, i still consider them INDY either way. It is easy for me to say that because i know Phil and Gabrielle very well and some of you dont and question what is what but in their case, trust me it is as i said above.
really its about who works for who, I've hired a friend as a booker before when I was super busy with a class last summer, and I hire drivers when I need to, I'm still the one running the show.
Also good point about guys often thinking they can manipulate you better by talking in person... little do they know, we are pretty bad ass ladies
Also good point about guys often thinking they can manipulate you better by talking in person... little do they know, we are pretty bad ass ladies
You generalize with one case (we all know who you're targetting here) and you're point of view is WAY alarmistic and unfunded.
This happens. Some are manipulators I guess. But some bookers are too. Can we make such generalisation on few case of exploiting bookers? I don't think so.
Most merb indies would not accept any $$ dealing and some will as long as it is fair in their opinions (Repeating customer etc.)
I would say that all indies on merb knows how to distinguishe and deal with manipulators and cheap asses.
On merb, indies that use bookers is really to help with the communication which we all know, is quite fastitious especially with popular SPs...
So you know Iggy that my preference of true indies (no booker) is shared by many of your friends
So be careful of what you say!
Lol, I know full well your preference mon ami, but let me ask you this, how do you know every indy you see does not have help of some kind? You don't and neither do most everyone else unless they are friends with each and every Indy they see. It is all about the fantasy that we think we are dealing directly with the lady we will be seeing and that is fine. My post was more about why "some" (and i did list it as "some") guys feel the need to deal ONLY with the Indy herself, nothing more and certainly nothing less
Now on the other hand i do know several Indy's do everything themselves and again, Kudos to them, it is a awful lot of work and how they pull it off, they deserve an award.
Now on the other hand i do know several Indy's do everything themselves and again, Kudos to them, it is a awful lot of work and how they pull it off, they deserve an award.
On merb, indies that use bookers is really to help with the communication which we all know, is quite fastitious especially with popular SPs...
So you know Iggy that my preference of true indies (no booker) is shared by many of your friends
So be careful of what you say!
Again the "True" Indy thing....
The views that people have on this subject do not matter to me that much because it does not change the work I do. However, if I put myself in the position of an SP that worked hard to establish a stellar reputation, sometimes over a period of several years, and is able to work in this industry on the basis of her own name rather that needing to draw from an agency’s client base, I can understand that she would be proud of her independent status and would be offended if she would be considered otherwise.
Out of respect, couldn't you say "my preferred type of Indy"?
My points again:
1- An Indy is an Indy. Regardless of if she has employees (including a personal assistant).
2- A Hobbyist might prefer (or not) Indies they can contact directly rather than through a personal assistant.
Can people agree on the above?
Regards, Phil.
Exactly.....
Hey listen, i had a much anticipated date with the now retired Karyna Klein, 6 weeks in advance and was communicating with her via texts and emails weekly and it really built up the anticipation (and not once did i ask for a discount, hell i even gave her a big tip after she stayed 6 hours instead of the four paid and she refused it saying i already paid her published rate and she stayed over on her own time) of the date so i 100% "get that" part of it, BUT and this is the huge BUT.... did i ever really know it was her in every single text and email? Nope and neither do any others. I found out once someone who i thought was answering my emails (a super hot lady) was a booker friend and a guy and it ruined the mood so now i dont ask lol. All that matters is the date, the time spent together with the lady you are with, nothing else in my very humble opinion.
Hey listen, i had a much anticipated date with the now retired Karyna Klein, 6 weeks in advance and was communicating with her via texts and emails weekly and it really built up the anticipation (and not once did i ask for a discount, hell i even gave her a big tip after she stayed 6 hours instead of the four paid and she refused it saying i already paid her published rate and she stayed over on her own time) of the date so i 100% "get that" part of it, BUT and this is the huge BUT.... did i ever really know it was her in every single text and email? Nope and neither do any others. I found out once someone who i thought was answering my emails (a super hot lady) was a booker friend and a guy and it ruined the mood so now i dont ask lol. All that matters is the date, the time spent together with the lady you are with, nothing else in my very humble opinion.
really its about who works for who, I've hired a friend as a booker before when I was super busy with a class last summer, and I hire drivers when I need to, I'm still the one running the show.
Also good point about guys often thinking they can manipulate you better by talking in person... little do they know, we are pretty bad ass ladies
Exactly. This is all how a client percieve things...
Many indies out of merb are using a booker and don't tell.
Because it does not sell well. It is not perceived well especially out of merb
The first communication with an Indy does not always tell us we are talking directly to the lady, especially with out of merb indies (Ann123).
Out of merb indies are my speciality. And now I can tell right from the first couple of SMS if a booker is involed.
Eventually I meet the lady, and often, I find out there is she has a booker or not because of discrepencies of what was discussed earlier by sms.
Ok but wait no I dont see a point with anyone lying about this.
When i had a booker, her name was Lucille, and she openly introduced herself as such, and when a specific booking required communication directly between me and the client, Lucille would make it happen.
Phil here openly books for the ladies who employ him.
But I don't think it's ok for someone else to answer a text or email pretending to be the SP.
When i had a booker, her name was Lucille, and she openly introduced herself as such, and when a specific booking required communication directly between me and the client, Lucille would make it happen.
Phil here openly books for the ladies who employ him.
But I don't think it's ok for someone else to answer a text or email pretending to be the SP.
Indy = she's running the show. Agency give directions to their booker just as Indy can do. The idea is that she's responsible for everything that goes well or wrong from the booking to the service. If she receive you and she's tired ot not into it, well she's the only one to blame.
The title of the thread is: What is your definition of "Indy"?
So MY definition of an Indy in this hobby is not simply "An indy is an indy"... It needs a little development.
Merbwise, An Agency advertise in the Escort Agency section, An Indy advertise in the Independant Escorts Section.
A booker from an agency that was booking couple of girls advertised in the agency section now books the same girls advertised in the independant section.
Yes these girls now have their OWN individual ad threads, they are certainly making decisions and ask for more $$ so we can say their "status" changed indeed.
But for ME, this is not a significant change in this particular case (Booker still involved).
And that is because of this thin line that people, like in the 411 thread mentionnened by Phil, get confused.
This is all a matter of perception.
I srongly believe that BY definifition of "Independant", people (Johns) believe that a girl that makes a jump from Agency to Indy has no booker by default.
Otherwise there is not much difference on our end...
Ok, you can call her Independant if you want and you are probably right because they have truly a new status on merb.
For me this is just a little change of section of merb.
But I agree that for the girls this might mean a lot more.
That is why if we have to call the SP an Independant, there are level of Independancies...
And in my OWN book, I call a True Independant (Sorry I use that term in my book) a SP that have no booker and does it all and offers a personalised and intimate moment from SMS/EMail to the actual session.
The other Indy SPs that have a booker, well, they are certainly not False independant, nor are they Agency...
But in my book, I will flag them with the Independant Status without the check in the "True" box
So MY definition of an Indy in this hobby is not simply "An indy is an indy"... It needs a little development.
Merbwise, An Agency advertise in the Escort Agency section, An Indy advertise in the Independant Escorts Section.
A booker from an agency that was booking couple of girls advertised in the agency section now books the same girls advertised in the independant section.
Yes these girls now have their OWN individual ad threads, they are certainly making decisions and ask for more $$ so we can say their "status" changed indeed.
But for ME, this is not a significant change in this particular case (Booker still involved).
And that is because of this thin line that people, like in the 411 thread mentionnened by Phil, get confused.
This is all a matter of perception.
I srongly believe that BY definifition of "Independant", people (Johns) believe that a girl that makes a jump from Agency to Indy has no booker by default.
Otherwise there is not much difference on our end...
Ok, you can call her Independant if you want and you are probably right because they have truly a new status on merb.
For me this is just a little change of section of merb.
But I agree that for the girls this might mean a lot more.
That is why if we have to call the SP an Independant, there are level of Independancies...
And in my OWN book, I call a True Independant (Sorry I use that term in my book) a SP that have no booker and does it all and offers a personalised and intimate moment from SMS/EMail to the actual session.
The other Indy SPs that have a booker, well, they are certainly not False independant, nor are they Agency...
But in my book, I will flag them with the Independant Status without the check in the "True" box
"On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog."
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"Remember when, on the Internet, nobody knew who you were?"
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"Remember when, on the Internet, nobody knew who you were?"
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I'm sorry but I do not see both sides other than the issues I already stated.
What is a lawyer?
A partner in a big firm?
A lawyer working as an employee in a law firm?
A lawyer working out of his basement office and answering the phone?
They are ALL LAWYERS. Which one would you prefer dealing with? That's where personal preference comes in.
Yes, an Indy is an Indy because she is her own boss. Do you prefer to deal with an Indy over annonce 123, on Merb, by phone, by email, through a booker? Same thing: a matter of personal preference.
Regards, Phil.
What is a lawyer?
A partner in a big firm?
A lawyer working as an employee in a law firm?
A lawyer working out of his basement office and answering the phone?
They are ALL LAWYERS. Which one would you prefer dealing with? That's where personal preference comes in.
Yes, an Indy is an Indy because she is her own boss. Do you prefer to deal with an Indy over annonce 123, on Merb, by phone, by email, through a booker? Same thing: a matter of personal preference.
Regards, Phil.
Phil, Thanks for the guidelines you stated I don't think anyone will argue about these
Though the real question as Amelie Gray stated is who works for who?
I think it quite normal that some questions might be raised on the status if the girls we assist when we work with these now prensented as independant
When we personally worked with them in the past in an agency context.
I'm sorry Phil it's all about the "how" .... the fact to hire an assistant will never be an obstacle to the indy status.
It's just the fact that you used to be in an agency and now you assist two girl of that agency. To me it's look kind of odd
Personally I call it dancing with the thin line between being agency or indy for these ladies which are wonderful by the way!
On which side of the you guys are? I don't know ...
The answer is probably the same as who<s working for who as amelie stated
really its about who works for who, I've hired a friend as a booker before when I was super busy with a class last summer, and I hire drivers when I need to, I'm still the one running the show.
Also good point about guys often thinking they can manipulate you better by talking in person... little do they know, we are pretty bad ass ladies
Though the real question as Amelie Gray stated is who works for who?
I think it quite normal that some questions might be raised on the status if the girls we assist when we work with these now prensented as independant
When we personally worked with them in the past in an agency context.
I'm sorry Phil it's all about the "how" .... the fact to hire an assistant will never be an obstacle to the indy status.
It's just the fact that you used to be in an agency and now you assist two girl of that agency. To me it's look kind of odd
Personally I call it dancing with the thin line between being agency or indy for these ladies which are wonderful by the way!
On which side of the you guys are? I don't know ...
The answer is probably the same as who<s working for who as amelie stated
Hello Ezekiel,
I have said it several times and I fail to see why you would see a thin line anywhere.
The two ladies got to know me and thought I would make an excellent Personal Assistant for them. So they offered to hire me and retain my services. And I gladly accepted their offer.
To suggest otherwise would be the equivalent of saying I am lying. Is that what you are suggesting?
Regards, Phil.
Lets stay in the INDEPENDANT Definition.
Where does the use of the Indy term come from for the SP scene?
This is to differentiate from Agency right?. But differentiate in what aspect exactly?
Independant means (from dictionary) "not depending on another for livelihood or subsistence".
Indy SP compared to Agency I believe could mean that she is not depending on others for livelihood...
Who's the others???
In short, she is working alone and have FULL control. Hiring helpers for web design and pro photoshoot does not count as it is poncutal.
But the booking is a very important part of their job as it is directly related to the approach with the clients. The booking is an extent of the service they provide as an indy.
So I strongly believe that the Booker is the "Others" we all expect not to be there for an Independant by default.
But I understand that an "Indy" that employs a booker has the Independant status. I'm fine with that but in my opinion, she's much less Independant that an indy without a booker (Booker really makes it look like she would be with an angency).
When you used Gabrielle account to express your opions Phil at the beginning of this thread, I'm sorry, but it just look like an agency that takes care of the interest of their girls but it is worst cause you used some obe else account... (I'm glad you now use you own account)
Now when I see a comment from gabrielle on merb using the account with her name, I will always have doubt about if this is really her writing her own opinions...
Where does the use of the Indy term come from for the SP scene?
This is to differentiate from Agency right?. But differentiate in what aspect exactly?
Independant means (from dictionary) "not depending on another for livelihood or subsistence".
Indy SP compared to Agency I believe could mean that she is not depending on others for livelihood...
Who's the others???
In short, she is working alone and have FULL control. Hiring helpers for web design and pro photoshoot does not count as it is poncutal.
But the booking is a very important part of their job as it is directly related to the approach with the clients. The booking is an extent of the service they provide as an indy.
So I strongly believe that the Booker is the "Others" we all expect not to be there for an Independant by default.
But I understand that an "Indy" that employs a booker has the Independant status. I'm fine with that but in my opinion, she's much less Independant that an indy without a booker (Booker really makes it look like she would be with an angency).
When you used Gabrielle account to express your opions Phil at the beginning of this thread, I'm sorry, but it just look like an agency that takes care of the interest of their girls but it is worst cause you used some obe else account... (I'm glad you now use you own account)
Now when I see a comment from gabrielle on merb using the account with her name, I will always have doubt about if this is really her writing her own opinions...
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