What should the NFL do to Michael Vick if he's found guilty?

[breadman]

In case some haven't heard about the federal charges brought against Michael Vick...here's an interesting article about what the Falcon's owner should do even before the outcome has been decided.

If Vick is found guilty...what should the NFL do in response?

 

[EagerBeaver]

Breadman,

The charges against Vick carry with them a maximum possible 6 years imprisonment if he's convicted, although I think it unlikely he would get such a sentence. But if he is imprisoned obviously he won't be able to play football irrespective of what the NFL does.

The NFL will not take any action against Vick pending allowing of the case to run its course through the legal system. We have already seen what happens when you don't allow a case to be tried in the Courts with the Duke lacrosse players. Duke University suspended the players, and were later sued by the players when they not only had charges against them dropped, but were also declared innocent by the North Carolina AG. Duke was then forced to pay out a big settlement to these kids.

I have read the indictment against Vick. Most of it alleges that his co-conspirators carried out executions of the dogs except one incident that Vick was allegedly involved in. It sounds like some of the government's witnesses were guys who participated in the dogfights themselves. It was a gambling venture more than anything else so I suspect some of the witnesses may have axes to grind. These guys were likely threatened with prosecution if they did not cooperate, and were likely pressed for info on Vick in particular. I am a bit skeptical about the government's case against Vick pending the credibility of these witnesses being established in Court. It's very easy to get a bunch of unchallenged statements from witnesses, and it is quite another thing for those statements to hold up at trial under the duress of a withering cross examination.

 

[breadman]

EB, think the first two paragraph's of the article I linked tells it all. It took place on his property, while he attended. If he should luck out and escape serious jail time, he should be banned for life from any professional sports.

So let me get this straight. People who think Michael Vick is "innocent'' of any involvement with dogfighting believe that Vick could have visited the Smithfield, Va., house he owned at any time over the past six-plus years and never noticed anything slightly suspicious about the activities going on there.

They believe Vick could have overlooked the dog-breeding "rape stand'' that federal authorities discovered on the property, or the blood stains that dotted the walls of those five black-painted buildings in the backyard? They contend that Vick was oblivious to what his friends and cousin were doing with those car axles buried in the ground, and those treadmills and syringes, and that piece of bloodstained carpet?

 

[EagerBeaver]

Breadman,

I am not ready to prejudge this case, as it sounds like there have been some issues with the prosecution including from what I read one prosecutor on the team refusing to seek renewal of a search warrant. That tells me something may be amiss with this case. There is a tendency for people to decide cases based on what they read in the media and as we saw in the Duke lacrosse player prosecution, it's sometimes a mistake to do that.

If Vick is convicted, he probably will be suspended for a long period of time and possibly life, and he may also go to prison. If he is acquitted, the NFL will be hard pressed to do anything in my estimation. The NFL has already said publicly they are waiting to see what happens in Court, so what is the point of that statement if they want to do something else?

 

[EagerBeaver]

Daringly,

See my post above. I already gave my opinion on what will happen if there is a conviction. What we have right now is an indictment by a grand jury which alleges a bunch of things against 4 different guys. An indictment is basically allegations. A trial will determine what should be done with these defendants. Some of them may plead guilty, if the government's case is as strong as they have led us to believe. We'll have to wait and see what happens.

Please note that the Duke lacrosse players were also indicted. The case never went to trial, charges were dropped and the AG declared the defendants innocent. Duke was sued for suspending two of the players, and was forced to pay out money for wrongfully suspending them. Moral of the story: don't let cases get tried in the media - try them in Court.

 

[chowhound]

I question the need for the nfl to get involved with what should be a matter between Vick and the criminal justice system. If he goes to jail and can't show up for work, then don't pay him.

 

[Joe.t]

People like Vick are a disgrace to the human race, it takes a sick person to watch dogs try and kill each other, i find it disgusting that a millionaire with a college degree decides to spend his money by bank rolling a dog fighting ring, that to me is a very sick person.

 

[Joe.t]

Warning these videos are disturbing, it is a CBS in depth look at pitbull dog fighting and as a proud owner of a pitbull myself who i love to death i hope that Vick rots in hell because he really is a scumbag, i hope he suffers a career ending injury that causes him a lot of pain just like the pain that these dogs suffer.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/18/eveningnews/main3072425.shtml?source=mostpop_story

 

[joelcairo]

Warning these videos are disturbing, it is a CBS in depth look at pitbull dog fighting and as a proud owner of a pitbull myself who i love to death i hope that Vick rots in hell because he really is a scumbag, i hope he suffers a career ending injury that causes him a lot of pain just like the pain that these dogs suffer.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/18/eveningnews/main3072425.shtml?source=mostpop_story

For once I agree with you Joe T. Vick is such scum that he even makes Jeff Reardon (!) look okay in comparison!

 

[KRO]

What should the NFL do ? Put him in a ring with hungry Pitbulls at the superbowl halftime show.

 

[korbel]

Agreed

People like Vick are a disgrace to the human race, it takes a sick person to watch dogs try and kill each other, i find it disgusting that a millionaire with a college degree decides to spend his money by bank rolling a dog fighting ring, that to me is a very sick person.

Hello all,

I totally agree...however. In my view there is a basic jurisdiction problem here. As reprehensible as Vicks involvement in the dog fighting atrocity is, it is not an NFL issue...as far as I know yet. Despite the fact that Vick now carries a highly tarnished image, unless he has some sort of morals clause in his contract, Vick has not done anything to make his game performance or integrity directly questionable as a player. Vicks crimes are a civil legal matter for which he will probably be amply punished. That forthcoming resolution will definitely impact on him as a player, but the NFL should not presume it can act on any offense by a player that has not directly impacted on his game or is not covered by provisions in his contract. There are ample avenues for legal redress of Vicks actions without NFL involvement. Unless NFL jurisdiction is legally spelled out in this case it should let the civil authorities do their job without trying to overlord themselves into the morality of a player due to actions that did not involve his duties and responsibilities solely as a player. Martha Stewart supposedly payed for her crime without her show or corporate sponsors prosecuting her. The same should go for Vick.

Let it play out in civil court,

Korbel

 

[Joe.t]

Lets just all hope that Vick rots in hell, he even sounds and looks stupid, ever hear him in a interview?, 2 bits says he flunked the wonderlic test because he is too stupid to pass, it's too bad that this guy can run a 4.4 forty and throw a football 70 yards because if it wasn't for these talents he would either be in jail or dead by now which is where he deserves to be.

 

[Cosmo]

Warning these videos are disturbing, it is a CBS in depth look at pitbull dog fighting and as a proud owner of a pitbull myself who i love to death i hope that Vick rots in hell because he really is a scumbag, i hope he suffers a career ending injury that causes him a lot of pain just like the pain that these dogs suffer.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/18/eveningnews/main3072425.shtml?source=mostpop_story

The best way to sentence this cruel asshole would be to put him in a cage with a few hungry(not starving,no cruelty)pit bulls.Bare hads,no weapons and nowhere to run.

Those who know me know I'm no bleeding heart,but cruelty against animals makes me puke.In some countries what they do to dogs is even worse than that vermin Vick does,they skin a dog alive!China especially is very cruel against animals,they have these ''boxing'' matches betwee cubs and also tie up a bear against a tree and then have people punch the poor defenseless animal.
I wouls feel no remorse doing the same to those who organise and torture those animals.

 

[nacho]

Hang the guilty bastard!

 

[korbel]

I disagree, the nfl has a code of conduct policy. All players and coaches are aware of it. If he did what is alleged then this clearly violates it.

Hello Daringly,

I covered this in my post where I said the NFL should act if their policies are clearly spelled out to cover this episode. I do not know if it does and I did not research it. However, in principal I still don't think the NFL should go after someone who has not done anything to directly interfere with the game or his performance except to generate enormous anger about a separate part of his life. He will obviously get what he deserves through the general legal systems and whether he talks like an idiot or not does not make him more guilty. The crime itself is what matters. Otherwise the lynch mob forming here could go after most of the players in sports.

Happy executions,

Korbel

 

[korbel]

Best post i seen in a long time

Hello Daringly,

No that could be sweet justice...lol.

Grrrrrrr,

Korbel

 

[EagerBeaver]

I disagree, the nfl has a code of conduct policy. All players and coaches are aware of it. If he did what is alleged then this clearly violates it.

This is a classic question-begging position. "If he did it." That is why we have trials - to have an impartial trier of fact determine "if he did it." So basically I don't understand the point of your post.

I will say that what PETA is doing in applying pressure on the Commissioner to suspend Vick is very clever. PETA is jumping up and down pointing out that Adam "Pacman" Jones was suspended for a year despite not having been convicted of anything. PETA is essentially arguing that based on precedent, the NFL is saying that one need not be convicted in order to have a suspension imposed under its personal conduct policy. The NFL must apply that policy in an even handed manner.

However, there are 2 differences between the Pacman Jones case and the Vick case. One is that Pacman had a number of brushes with the law - I believe over 10 arrests - and a Vegas bouncer ended up being paralyzed after being shot by one of Pacman's entourage. Vick, on the other hand, while not exactly a model citizen, has not had the arrest resume of Pacman. In fact I don't believe Vick had any prior arrests.

Second, reading between the lines, I believe that the NFL perceives that the Court case against Vick is weaker than the Court case against Pacman. Of course, it's very dangerous to make such evaluations and end up being wrong, as we saw in the Duke lacrosse case.

For these reasons, I am beginning to think that the PETA pressure will have the NFL seriously consider suspending Vick if he is not forced to take paid administrative leave. It's going to be one or the other. There is no way I see Vick playing in the NFL in 2007.

Basically the NFL must weigh the damage of wrongfully suspending Vick vs. the damage if they don't suspend him. If they do suspend him I am wondering if they can do it with pay, so as to minimize their potential exposure to a wrongful suspension claim if Vick is acquitted. I am pretty sure Pacman Jones was suspended without pay.

If Vick is suspended, will the Toronto Argos pick him up like they did Ricky Williams when the NFL gave ole Ricky the boot? The CFL is being perceived as a refuge for the NFL's bad boys.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Daringly,

I choose to live in reality unlike some of the posters here. I am not going to answer anyone's questions that are not based on the reality of the world in which we live. You want answers to such questions, ask them to the people who live in your hypothetical bogeyland. Plus, I already said what my opinion was in this thread. If you do not accept it, there is nothing I can do about it. My opinion makes no difference anyway, as far as the outcome of this controversy.

Presumably in your hypothetical there would also be a guilty plea. Although do you expect me to not believe that either? Vick is not going to be pleading guilty based on everything I have seen, read and heard. May be a different story as to his co-defendants, and if I was Vick I would be worried about that. So your hypothetical is meaningless and so is my opinion on it.

 

[picasso]

The best way to sentence this cruel asshole would be to put him in a cage with a few hungry(not starving,no cruelty)pit bulls.Bare hads,no weapons and nowhere to run.

Those who know me know I'm no bleeding heart,but cruelty against animals makes me puke.In some countries what they do to dogs is even worse than that vermin Vick does,they skin a dog alive!China especially is very cruel against animals,they have these ''boxing'' matches betwee cubs and also tie up a bear against a tree and then have people punch the poor defenseless animal.
I wouls feel no remorse doing the same to those who organise and torture those animals.

My thoughts exactly, Cosmo. Couldn't have said it better myself. Vick is a fucking scumbag.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Or it could be that you think cruelty to animals is just a joke. Now forget M. Vick do you approve or disapprove of dog fighting, yes or no.

Daringly,

Why do you keep asking silly questions? If a client acts me about engaging in any activity that is against the law, what do you think the answer is going to be? Personally, I am not an animal lover, but I don't believe anyone should be cruel to animals - with certain exceptions like hunting animals where certain animal populations need to be reduced (e.g. spring bear hunt issue in Ontario). But this personal opinion has absolutely nothing to do with anything. If I allowed my personal opinions to interfere with how I do my job or how I analyze any legal issue, I would not be able to function in a professional manner.