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Will the Economy bubble explode soon?

jalimon

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Dec 28, 2015
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Fradi this is what I do not want. I do not want a investment manager to tell me to be there for the long run and not to worry about those fluctuation... That would lead me to never work with him at this point.

I am ready to re-enter the market now. But the market is high as shit. Seems to me the real opportunity is too wait until it tank and then buy in at low price.

Reading today's news and I am sure top investors are cashing out or already did while "passive investment managers" as Shark call's them are preparing email template to tell their client to remain calm and think positive... And of course not to forget to pay them their fee's... ;)

Cheers,
 

sharkman

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Apr 10, 2018
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the kings are the "active investment managers"...although there are different other designations they can be referred as...including going solo!

i.e.: those that stick out their necks every trading day and that have balls of steel!...those that have the real passion!
 

Fradi

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Apr 9, 2019
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Jali,

I don’t really worry all that much about it.
Most of my family is involved in finance, I started tapering off from being aggressive to being much more conservative 10 years ago in fact I complained about being way too conservative last year and they insisted that I should move even more away from equities.
I pay very little in fees, compared to most people.


Seems they were right we rearranged it all 3 months ago. At this age I don’t need to take too many risks like before.
I am not complaining, I have done well with investments and properties over the years, sure I took some painful hits like most but always bounced back.

I guess I may have been a bit more like you guys 20 years ago, now I don’t panic anymore or get over exited about the stock market.
 

donbusch

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Mar 16, 2003
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Not to be overly fussy about terminology but passive portfolio management typically involve index funds and exchange traded funds (ETF) that try to mimic an index or group of indices. For example, the SPDR S&P 500 ETF (SPY) or Vanguard S&P 500 ETF (VOO). There’s no real decision making by these funds, they just track the market hence the super low fees of 0.04-0.09% which is like an admin charge. Essentially an index fund is like a small piece of the market.

This is a a great way to invest for the long term. In fact, very very few active fund managers including famous hedge funds have outperformed the market over an extended period of time.

Some mutual funds try to brand themselves as passive fund managers but that’s not really true. They are conservative but still have managers that actively allocate the money so u see much higher fees yet poorer performance.

Then there’s the hedge funds which I personally run away from.

In 2008, Warren Buffett took a $1 million wager for charity that stashing money in an index fund over 10 years, would make you richer than if you entrusted it with hedge fund managers. Guess who won?

https://money.cnn.com/2018/02/24/investing/warren-buffett-annual-letter-hedge-fund-bet/index.html
 

jalimon

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Dec 28, 2015
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Thanks for posting this Donbusch. Quite interesting...

"Stick with big, 'easy' decisions and eschew activity," Buffett said.

Hehe wise wise

Still passive or active investing does not resolve my problem. When is best time to dive in??? I suspect hell will beak loose shortly. And the Trumpet is convincing me each time he tweets an insane comment like the US does not need China! Hum What!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers,
 

Albacor

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Nov 30, 2016
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Not to worry as long as Trump is in power, he's a business man, we will not let the market crush ! trust me !
 

jalimon

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Dec 28, 2015
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Not to worry as long as Trump is in power, he's a business man, we will not let the market crush ! trust me !

Haha now I am real worried!

The economy is doing well for 10 years now. Trump just ballooned the debt to make it a little better. He cannot prevent a crush if you believe that by god take out all your saving from it!

Cheers,
 

C.B. Brown

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Nov 29, 2019
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H He cannot prevent a crush if you believe that by god take out all your saving from it!

Cheers,
For once i agree with you.Although Trump cant stop a crash,i don't think he will be responsable for one either.
Apparently the market auto corrects every 10 yrs can be 10% or i belive whats termed a bear adjustment 20% down or more
which can take years to recover from and we are apparently due.
bull market started march 2009 so its been 10 yrs upwards and normally its a max 4.5
 

C.B. Brown

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Nov 29, 2019
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Best guess:

Historically, we know such a downturn is going to come.

The problem is that there have been so many doomsday scenarios in the past ten years that jumping off the market would have meant missing out on great returns--especially in the last six months.

The American economy is pretty sound. So unless you have something better to do with your cash, keep investing it, and ride-out any "correction," which--if it comes this year--will probably be a soft one.

All bets are off come election time ....
if your young absolutely ,if your retired why take the risk
a bad bear down could take many years to recover from and who knows how long i will live
what i got saved is better than 90% so why gamble
 

Dave in Phoenix

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Mar 21, 2003
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For once i agree with you.Although Trump cant stop a crash,i don't think he will be responsable for one either.
Apparently the market auto corrects every 10 yrs can be 10% or i belive whats termed a bear adjustment 20% down or more
which can take years to recover from and we are apparently due.
bull market started march 2009 so its been 10 yrs upwards and normally its a max 4.5

No, the US market doesn't just magically correct every ten years, or so, there has to be an economic reason like the tech bubble in 2000 or the liquidity crisis of mortgage debt in 2008.

While the US economy is slowing under the Trump mess (Obama had faster GDP growth in his last 3 years compared to Trump) even at just below 2% projected for 2020, it is still one of the best in the world. Europe is at or closer to a recession, Japan a mess, massive risk from the no-deal Brexit in the UK, now with less than a year to do a deal with the EU, etc.

In the US, the consumer is strong, offsetting declines in the manufacturing sector. Trump won Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin in 2016, promising working-class voters he would revive US manufacturing. But all four states have lost more than 16,000 factory jobs in the past year alone.

And many new production jobs are non-union with lower pay, according to Pew Research. That translates to the loss of good wages for Americans without a college degree, the majority of which voted Trump into office.

In 2019, production workers earned 20% below the national average, a UC Berkeley study found. A third of manufacturing employees rely on food stamps or other federal assistance programs to make ends meet.

During Trump's first 35 months in office, the US economy has gained 6.69 million jobs. But during a comparable 35-month period at the end of Obama's tenure, employers added 7.96 million jobs, or 19%, more than what has been added since Trump took office. The average monthly gain so far under Trump is 191,000 jobs. During the last 35 months under Obama, employers were adding an average of 227,000 jobs a month.

The GDP spiked to a high of 3.1% due to the short term effects of Trump's $trillion tax cut for the wealthy. He made up his fantasy of a 4-6% growth rate due to the cuts, which of course, no serious investor believed. We now have the most massive federal debt since WWII, with no end in sight.

Interest rates are kept low since even at 1.6% on the 10-year treasury; it is about the best return of major nations sovereign debt globally We have about $14 trillion of NEGATIVE interest rates globally on government debt! It is a bit hard to wrap your brain around negative interest rates.

The trade war is hurting, and the latest China deal for a goal of $250b of purchases never was believed to be realistic. Now with the virus in China, it even more unlikely. In the meantime, we have record high since the Depression farmer bankruptcies even after the massive payments by Trump about ten times greater than the auto bailout the Republicans complained so much about - and all not paid for except for more debt.

S&P500 earnings were almost flat last year and the P/E ratios are very high. It looks like maybe 5% earnings growth currently projected for 2020.

The US economy is crawling along and someday the deficit will have to be addressed but so far all is well. For investors, I recommend a "participate yet protect" investment portfolio using equity hedges. However, bonds may be riskier than equities since rates are at near all-time lows and bonds lose value once rates climb to more normalized long-term levels. So I do not recommend bonds as protection.
 

Dave in Phoenix

Active Member
Mar 21, 2003
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First time since 2008 the fed lowered interest rate. America Inc. is in more debt then 2008

Not sure if OP by "America Inc." is referring to the US or North America - since as I often remind our Canadian friends Canada is in America :)

I think this thread is all about the U.S. although looking for any discussion about the Canadian economy which I am interested in but have no knowledge.
 

jalimon

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Dec 28, 2015
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Yes this thread is about the US. We in Canada are pretty much living of your economy ;) Although we have much better quality of living then in the US.
 

sharkman

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jalimon

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Dec 28, 2015
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I imagine the face of my broker when I ask him to buy 500 shares of bbbj ;)
 
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