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Winter Blues: 2012 Official Offseason Baseball Thread

rumpleforeskiin

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Jan 20, 2007
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You know, Doc, there is the real possibility that this deal could blow up on the Jays.

Jose Reyes is a great player, but one with a long injury history. 2012 was his first full season since 2008.

One NL executive has said that he wonders about Buehrle or Johnson succeeding in the AL East. Buehrle's career ERA vs the Sox is 4.64; vs the Yankees 6.38. Johnson seems less of a question mark, though he did miss almost all of 2011 with injury.

However, the great likelihood is that this makes the Jays a much stronger team and makes the aging decrepit Yankees fall from grace that much harder.
 

rumpleforeskiin

It's a whole new ballgame
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The joke is on us: Jeffrey Loria has his stadium and dumps his star players

By DAVID J. NEAL
[email protected]

Shooting down the Dolphin Expressway a couple of weeks ago, I glanced over at Marlins Park. It seemed to be laughing.
I couldn’t exactly determine the type of mirth in those brief few seconds.

Now, as the Marlins deal pitchers Josh Johnson, Mark Buerhle and their best position player, Jose Reyes, to finish a roster cutdown that began at midseason, I can identify it as the sinister belly laugh of a sentient Death Star-like construct.

“My master, Lord Loria, merely dangled a few promises before you to fool you into helping to create me! Now, the mighty tractor beam of my debt will suck the money from your present and future pockets as you slave while I make Lord Loria ever richer and more powerful! BWAAAA-HA-HA-HA!”

Whichever, the joke stays on us.

Marlins fans still pouting over 1997 now have something else to spend 15 years (or, however long it’s going to take to pay off that stadium debt) grumbling about.

Hey, at least Wayne Huizenga bought a World Series title team before breaking it up when he saw the Marlins couldn’t win on the bottom line.

You got a World Series championship after five seasons and spent at least twice that long pouting about the breakup.

That’s just being a bitter ex-spouse.

Pulling plug

The art collector, through his player buyer Larry Beinfest, bought a 69-win team that began disintegrating shortly after Memorial Day and finished 29 games out of first.

Management pulled out the electric carving knife on this turkey in July, trading Anibal Sanchez and Omar Infante to eventual American League champion Detroit (where former Marlin Miguel Cabrera was winning the first Triple Crown since the Summer of Love) and Hanley Ramirez to the Dodgers.

Now, be bitter, fans. That is someone who married you for your money.

Johnson, once seen as a longtime franchise ace, never fully recovered from the shoulder and back problems that ended his 2011 season early.

Buerhle wound up the Marlins best pitcher this season, going 13-13 with a 3.74 ERA, best among Marlins starters.

Reyes, the 2011 National League MVP with the Mets, hit .287, had a .347 on-base percentage and stole 40 bases.

Worse fiasco

This is the biggest fiasco season in the Marlins 20 seasons.

Worse than 1994 when all of baseball, management and players, blew up the World Series.

Worse than 1998, the year after the selloff.

At least that year had the memory of a World Series, the weirdness of Mike Piazza as a Marlin for five games as a rest stop between the Dodgers and Mets; and the video of a woman performing the most athletic feat at a Marlins game that season on her guy.

Many issues

This year lacked such entertainment despite the follies that The Franchise never fully mined. The Marlins brass bought Ozzie Guillen’s mind and personality, and were shocked they also bought Guillen’s PR-plummeting potpourri of a mouth. Who knew? Then, after Guillen’s Fidel Castro comments, the Marlins forced Guillen into an apology news conference that embarrassingly echoed similar government-run media sessions in fascist countries.

They bought, then traded, Heath Bell, a closer who couldn’t close a drawer. Their once solid minor-league system got revealed as suffering from a dearth of talent.

With that money, Marlins general manager Larry Bienfest spent poorly.

Bad moves

Earlier Tuesday, I envisioned Bienfest as Charlie Brown in a Peanuts strip from the 1970s. Charlie Brown says to Lucy, “This is the time of year when teams improve themselves with a few shrewd trades.” Lucy says, “Good idea. Why don’t you trade yourself?”

Charlie Brown winds up trading Snoopy to Peppermint Patty’s team for five players. Snoopy guilt trips Charlie Brown into tearing up the deal just as Peppermint Patty shows up to say the five players said they’d quit baseball before playing for Charlie Brown’s team.

Wonder if those Blue Jays would feel that way about the Marlins without the money.

----------


Fans, players react to another Miami Marlins dismantling

By MANNY NAVARRO
[email protected]
Although it still is awaiting approval by Major League Baseball before it can be made official, a 12-player, blockbuster trade agreed to by the Marlins and Blue Jays didn’t take long to create shock waves throughout the country via Twitter on Tuesday night.
“Huh?” a puzzled Ricky Nolasco posted on his official Twitter account shortly after the news broke around 6:15 p.m. that former teammates Josh Johnson, Mark Buehrle, Jose Reyes, John Buck and Emilio Bonifacio were being shipped off to Toronto in what essentially is another Marlins fire sale.

“I’m not gonna do whatever [everybody] thinks I’m gonna do and freak out!” Logan Morrison posted on his Twitter account. “Ugh, I need a bath.”

The Marlins, who had an Opening Day salary of $112 million in 2012 unloaded $163.75million in guaranteed contracts to Buck, Buehrle, Johnson and Reyes and avoided having to deal in arbitration with Bonifacio, who earned $2.2 million in 2012, by making Tuesday’s trade with Toronto. Right now, the Marlins could spend less than $20 million to field a big-league team in 2013.

What Miami got in return Tuesday is hardly a recognizable crew of names. Acquired in the deal with Toronto: Cuban-born shortstop Yunel Escobar, 30, who hit just .253 with nine homers and 51 RBI in 145 games in 2012; 22-year-old right-handed pitcher Henderson Alvarez (9-14, 4.85 ERA, 79 Ks, 54 BBs in 31 starts in 2012); backup catcher Jeff Mathis, who hit .218 with eight homers and 27 RBI in 71 games in 2012; and four minor-league prospects (three of the top seven in Toronto’s farm system, according to MLB.com).

“From a pure baseball standpoint, the Marlins did well with this deal. But this trade has a lot more ripples beyond the makeup of the roster,” ESPN’s Buster Olney said of the trade on his Twitter account.

Those ripples figure to be created by fans at the ticket office. The Marlins, who finished 69-93 and in last-place for the second year in a row in the National League East, drew 2,219,444 fans to their new $515 million park this season. That ranked 12th out of 16 teams in the National League. But once the team began shipping away the bulk of its infield just before the trade deadline, numbers began to dwindle.

Angry Marlins fans took to Twitter and local radio airwaves to express their disgust with the trade. It’s hard to blame them.

The 25-man roster hardly resembles the one the team had for Opening Day back in April. The only players still under club control in 2013 who were there for Opening Day in 2012 are Nolasco (set to make $11.5 million), Morrison ($480,000), All-Star right-fielder Giancarlo Stanton ($480,000), pinch-hitter Greg Dobbs ($1.5 million) and relief pitchers Mike Dunn ($480,000), Ryan Webb (arbitration eligible) and Steve Cishek ($480,000).

Stanton, the team’s cornerstone who is under club control through the 2016 season, hardly seemed thrilled by the deal, taking to Twitter to express his anger.

“I’m pissed off!!!” Stanton wrote. “Plain & Simple.”

Owner Jeffrey Loria, who turns 72 next week, wasn’t around when the Marlins introduced Mike Redmond as the club’s new manager at the beginning of the month. But Larry Beinfest, the club’s president of baseball operations, made it pretty clear the day Redmond was hired that the Marlins were looking to get back to their frugal ways.

“We talk about getting back to our ways, we’ve got get back to what we used to do like when we got Cody Ross for a dollar,” Beinfest said. “We got Dan Uggla for $50,000. Miguel Olivo. Wes Helms. We found ways to get it done. I’ll take some of the blame on that.

“We need to find value. We need to rely on our scouts and our people to help us overcome some of these challenges.”

Aside from Stanton in right field, Morrison at first base or left field, catcher Rob Brantly, outfielder Justin Ruggiano and the newly acquired Escobar it’s anyone’s guess how the Marlins plan to fill out the rest of the roster at this point. The starting rotation figures to have some form to it with Nolasco, Nathan Eovaldi, Jacob Turner and the newly acquired Alvarez.

But like everything else with the Marlins, nothing is set in stone.

“Well I’m gonna miss you guys…,” Cishek wrote on his Twitter account Tuesday night.

“Hopefully, our new teammates are as awesome on and off the field as buehrle jj buck boni and Reyes.”
 

rumpleforeskiin

It's a whole new ballgame
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I wonder if this is the biggest trade ever in MLB?
November 17, 1954: Baltimore Orioles send Don Larsen, Billy Hunter and Bob Turley, Mike Blyzka, Darrel Johnson, JimFridley and Dick Kryhoski to the New York Yankees for Bill Miller, Kal Segrist, Don Leppert, Ted Delguercio, Harry Byrd, Jim McDonald, Willy Miranda, Hal Smith, Gus Triandos and Gene Woodling.

Many of these players never had much impact. Larsen had a long career, mostly as a quality reliever, after pitching his perfect game in the 1956 WS. Bill Hunter and Willy Miranda were both utility infielders who had medium long careers. Bob Turley was a key figure in the Yankee rotation for a number of years. Gene Woodling was at the end of a long productive career.

Hal Smith was a mediocre catcher who had a long career; his claim to fame was a 3 run homer he hit in the bottom of the 8th inning of the 1960 World Series. One inning later, Bill Mazeroski ended the series with the only walk off seventh game home run in WS history. He is still loved in Pittsburgh and his name still brings tears to the eyes of Yankee fans. Gus Triandos was the Orioles starting catcher for a long time. Darrel Johnson had a short career as a player, but later managed for 8 years, taking the Red Sox to the 1975 pennant.

Considering the accomplishments of Larsen and Turley, this was a big win for the Yankees.

Any chance Selig will nix the deal?
From what I'm reading, it seems highly unlikely.
 

lgna69xxx

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Then you have little to root for the last yr and a half. But then again your team is also in the upper echelon in payroll year after year so, come again? For the record, i dont feel sorry for fans of your team. Karma is more the word that comes to mind.

Personally, I root for my team in wins and losses, not dollars on the bottom line. I'd also have a hard time feeling my team accomplished something, knowing that they'd bought their victories rather than earned them. In that sense, I feel sorry for Yankee fans.
 

lgna69xxx

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Thems the risks you take in business. The trade from the sox to the Yanks for Babe Ruth could of "blew up" but then again.... worked out quite well dont ya think?

Besides it's only money and Rogers has a few dollars left after this deal. Great trade for the Jays, simply GREAT! 4 teams fighting for first all season long next year, that we know for sure, well, besides knowing the sox will have a nice furnished home in the basement again.

Truth be told, as of now, unless they get some starting pitching, i do not think the Orioles will be as good, but still better than the red sox.

You know, Doc, there is the real possibility that this deal could blow up on the Jays.
 

Doc Holliday

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I agree with both Rumples & Iggy. Sure, the young players they gave up in the trade could become superstars one day, but the players the Jays obtained make a sudden impact on the organization & turns them into an instant contender in the AL East (and wildcard). My hope is that the re-sign Johnson, who'll be a free agent after this season.

Escobar is a good player, but the Jays wanted to dump him after last season's fiasco. Hechavaria has a great love, but can he hit major league pitching? Mathis was basically a throw-in in order to take on Buck's salary, and the 3 prospects the Jays gave back are a huge question mark.

AA won't have to throw a cash-load of money to obtain starting pitching (Greinke & Sanchez) anymore. With the money he's saved (as compared to signing the two free agents mentionned), maybe he can use it to extend Josh Johnson's contract. He finally got the lead-off hitter he's always wanted in Reyes, and the other kid he picked up is a speedster who'll possibly take over 2nd base. The trade was a no-brainer, but i agree it could come back & haunt the Jays one of these days. However, AA had to do something radical in order to revitalize the fan base after last season's injury fiasco which killed the season for them, losing John Farrell to the Red Sox (even though i personally didn't mind seeing him leave), and the constant promises of ownership (Rogers Communications) of not being afraid to spend if the proper situation presented itself. J.P. Arencibia might still be shipped out in order to get more pitching, but who knows. Right now, he's the team's #1 catcher with Travis D'Arnaud waiting in the wings.

The Jays starting rotation looks like: Morrow, Buerle, Johnson, Romero, Happ.

The batting lineup (in no particular order) looks like: Reyes, Laurie, Bautista, Encarnacion, Lind, Rasmus, Arencibia, Bonifacio, Gose.
 

Doc Holliday

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Don't forget Santos, I have read somewhere that he has the best slider in all of baseball, that says a lot.

I agree. After missing the entire season, i hope his shoulder problems are behind him (after surgery). But even if doesn't bounce back to his ol' form, the Jays have a more-than-adequate replacement in Casey Jansen.
 

rumpleforeskiin

It's a whole new ballgame
Jan 20, 2007
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Thems the risks you take in business. The trade from the sox to the Yanks for Babe Ruth could of "blew up" but then again.... worked out quite well dont ya think? .
Actually, it wasn't a trade, but a sale. So, no, it couldn't have blown up since the Yankees gave up nothing.


Truth be told, as of now, unless they get some starting pitching
True enough. Unless the Yankees get some starting pitching and some younger players and a few more guys who don't hit .240, it's going to be a long year.
 

lgna69xxx

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Josh Hamilton

Just heard from the winter meetings a rumor that the red sox are looking to sign him.
 

lgna69xxx

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Correct, it came from the GM meetings not winter. So what do you think, 200 million X years? (personally, as fragile as Josh is with his past and drug use, i'd hate to see him go to a media mad city like that)
 

rumpleforeskiin

It's a whole new ballgame
Jan 20, 2007
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Correct, it came from the GM meetings not winter.
Actually, the GM meetings were last week. Can't you get anything right?

I'm gonna guess that the Sox won't be as stoooopid as the Yankees were with Sabathia, Teixeira, and Rodriguez and won't sign a deal with Hamilton that's going to cripple them the way the Yankees are going to be hamstrung the next few years. My best guess is that they'll drop out at 4 years/$92 M. I'm also going to guess that he's going to have a hard time getting more than that.
 

lgna69xxx

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If you'd learn how to read you would of noticed i said "it came from the gm meetings" never once did i say they were this week, just the info was leaked from those meetings today... your too easy lol..... Hamilton will likely get a 6-7 yr deal from someone, no doubt.
Actually, the GM meetings were last week. Can't you get anything right?

I'm gonna guess that the Sox won't be as stoooopid as the Yankees were with Sabathia, Teixeira, and Rodriguez and won't sign a deal with Hamilton that's going to cripple them the way the Yankees are going to be hamstrung the next few years. My best guess is that they'll drop out at 4 years/$92 M. I'm also going to guess that he's going to have a hard time getting more than that.
 

lgna69xxx

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Yankees heading to Broadway

Harry H. Frazee, the Broadway producer and Boston Red Sox owner who sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees in 1919, might have appreciated this: a play about the Yankees is headed to Broadway, perhaps by late next year.

It would not have been possible without Frazee, for whom selling Ruth was a fate worse than a flop: it epitomized bad karma.

The Red Sox would not win a World Series until 2004, while the Yankees ascended to sports mythology. The empire that began with the acquisition of Ruth would win 27 World Series championships and yield a Broadway musical, “Damn Yankees,” which ran for 1,019 performances from 1955 to ’57 and 533 more in a revival in the mid-1990s, with Jerry Lewis as its star at the end.

Based on a novel by Douglass Wallop, “Damn Yankees” told the story of a devoted Washington Senators fan so sick of his team’s losing ways that he made a deal with the devil to turn into a Mickey Mantle-like superstar: Joe Hardy, or, as the song went, “Shoeless Joe from Hannibal, Mo.” The lyrics encapsulated the frustration of a doormat team in need of intervention: “Strike three, ball four / Walk a run will tie the score / Fly ball, double play / Yankees win again today / Those damn Yankees / Why can’t we beat ’em?”

Major league rivals may still be asking that question about the Yankees, but perhaps less frequently these days: the Detroit Tigers swept the punchless Yankees in the American League Championship Series in October.

The new, unnamed Yankees play will not evoke pinstriped connections to the land of fire and brimstone — unless, perhaps, it dramatizes the Billy Martin-Reggie Jackson relationship. And it is not likely to feature a seductress like Lola, from “Damn Yankees,” wooing a naïve rookie — or Alex Rodriguez. Instead, it will be based on the dynamics of a franchise that has been admired, envied and loathed.

“It will look at the tradition of the Yankees from the 1930s to the present day,” said Fran Kirmser, a co-producer. So, she said, theatergoers will see the stage filled with actors playing Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, Mantle and Derek Jeter.

But maybe not Jerry Kenney or Ross Moschitto. The play is, after all, about Yankees glory (or so it seems).

Kirmser and Tony Ponturo, her producing partner, would not describe the plot, or how characters whose real-life athletic careers span nine decades would be deployed or integrated onstage.

So will Ruth teach Jeter some bad late-night habits? Will tensions between Mantle and DiMaggio explode? Will Gehrig deliver his “luckiest man” speech onstage, as Gary Cooper did in “The Pride of the Yankees”? And who, if anyone, will play George Steinbrenner — and will Larry David supply his voice, but not his body, as he did on “Seinfeld”?

“This will be along the lines of what we’ve done before: we’ll deliver authenticity,” said Kirmser, who, with Ponturo, has produced two recent Broadway plays about sports: “Lombardi” and “Magic/Bird.” Marty Appel, the author of the recently published “Pinstripe Empire,” a history of the Yankees, said there was clearly enough material for a play.

“There are so many characters — Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Casey Stengel — who are all worthy of one-man shows,” he said. “It could be tough to stage, but if someone is clever enough to weave all the characters together, it could be terrific.”

Kirmser and Ponturo have had mixed results on Broadway. “Lombardi,” starring Dan Lauria as Green Bay Packers Coach Vince Lombardi, was a modest hit. But “Magic/Bird,” about the evolution of Magic Johnson and Larry Bird’s friendship, closed after only 37 performances.

Ponturo said Lombardi’s New York roots — he grew up in Brooklyn, attended Fordham University and was an assistant coach for the Giants — helped attract audiences, but the absence of those deep connections hindered “Magic/Bird.” “With the Yankees,” Ponturo said, “the passion in the tristate area is so real. A theater piece in New York City with those passionate fans will hit on that local emotion.”

Especially if Steinbrenner and Martin start shouting at each other onstage, channeling the rage of, say, George and Martha in “Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/16/sports/baseball/new-broadway-play-to-focus-on-yankees.html?_r=0

Whatta ya say rumps, front row on opening night? :thumb:
 

rumpleforeskiin

It's a whole new ballgame
Jan 20, 2007
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Where I belong.
If you'd learn how to read you would of noticed i said "it came from the gm meetings" never once did i say they were this week, just the info was leaked from those meetings today... your too easy lol..... Hamilton will likely get a 6-7 yr deal from someone, no doubt.
Actually, iggy, the GM meetings were two weeks ago. And the Hamilton talk didn't come out of the GM meetings. The talk was simply routine stuff that comes out all the time. And, oh, it wasn't "leaked." It came out in an interview Tuesday with the GM. But that's OK; not knowing what you're talking about never stopped you before; why should it now?

Oh, and that's "you're," not "your."
 

Doc Holliday

Staying hard
Sep 27, 2003
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Canada
I wouldn't be surprised if it's not Hamilton's agent who leaked out the stuff about a possible connection with the Red Sox. My guess is that there aren't too many teams out there who can afford him (or want him, for the matter) and the agent might be using the Sox rumour as leverage in his negotiations with the Rangers or some other team(s).

After last season's fire sale in order to rebuild, the Red Sox would be nutz to take on a headache like Hamilton. A very expensive one, by the way.
 

rumpleforeskiin

It's a whole new ballgame
Jan 20, 2007
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Where I belong.
Two pieces from the Lohud blog:

Speaking at Yankee Stadium today, manager Joe Girardi acknowledged that Derek Jeter’s rehab from a broken ankle might take too long for Jeter to be ready for Opening Day.

“He’s still basically non-weight-bearing, I believe,” Girardi said. “So, I really believe it might be a little push (for Jeter to be ready for the season opener). But I believe he’ll find a way to get ready for the season.”

It’s still premature to know anything one way or another. Jeter’s not all that far removed from surgery, and it’s still too early to know how quickly or how well his rehab will go.

“You have to get the full strength, and maybe you’re not able to start doing the things you normally would in January,” Girardi said. “So I think there’s a little bit of a question, but I think he’ll find a way, because he always has. That’s who he is.”

Considering Jeter's age, the severity of the injury, and Jeter's career long lack of lateral range, the Yankees might just have to find a new shortstop for next season. Jayson Nix?

Cone: “Yankees are “not in the game” for free agents

Earlier today, David Cone and Joe Girardi helped assemble USO packages at Yankee Stadium, and I’m guessing Cone spoke for many of you when he said this:

“Free agents do not need to apply (with the Yankees), as far as right now. … It’s shaking up the free-agent market, that’s for sure — not just this year, but a couple of years; probably since ’09 or ’08. A lot of agents are out there waiting for the Yankees to get back in the game, and they’re not in the game. It may take a couple of more years. I think most people realize this is probably a one-year thing with the Yankees so they can reset the tax rate. If they get under one year, then maybe the Yankees will be back in play again.”

When you consider the age of the Yankee roster, the holes in the lineup, the loading up done by the Jays, the re-loading the Sox are about to do, this could be the year the Yankees go from first to last; 1965 anyone? And...with the Yankees out of the picture, there could be some bargains to be had.
 
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