Again, look up the word "irony," iggy. Wilbur was not speaking for himself, but echoing the hysteria that's common among Red Sox fans. If you actually made the effort to read all they way to the end of the article, you'd have learned that Wilbur agrees with the course the Sox are taking.
Winter Blues: 2012 Official Offseason Baseball Thread
- Thread starter lgna69xxx
- Start date
I have seen more red sox fans that agree they paid him way too much than those who dont, ten fold. And all non sox fans i have talked to agree and lets face it, they overpaid by at least 2mil per year and nothing you can say will change my mind, or educated baseball fans either. Why does all this matter? in reality it does not, but it's funny because you always rip on other teams for over spending, mainly the Best team of all time, and when your team does it with this "tiny" deal, you still cant admit it.. just funny is all.... Gomes is a nice fit for the red sox, just overpaid, it happens all the time, Lackie ring a bell? Crawford? please save me the "Lackey is a top starter" crap, he is a #4 or 5 at best on a good team. Hmmmm maybe he is a top starter on the red sox this coming season afterall 
Meanwhile, it is being reported that both Pettitte and Rivera will be re signed by the Yanks as early as this week. Russell Martin has agreed to wait for this to happen before he talks about his future with the bombers or elsewhere. Ichiro also wants back with the Yanks, which makes losing Swisher a little easier to take. If all this happens as is expected (still not sure about Martin but hoping) then i see the AL east like this next season
1 and 2. Yanks/Blue Jays toss up, one wins the East and the other is a Wild Card team
3.Rays 5 gb
4.Orioles 7gb
5.red sox 30gb
Meanwhile, it is being reported that both Pettitte and Rivera will be re signed by the Yanks as early as this week. Russell Martin has agreed to wait for this to happen before he talks about his future with the bombers or elsewhere. Ichiro also wants back with the Yanks, which makes losing Swisher a little easier to take. If all this happens as is expected (still not sure about Martin but hoping) then i see the AL east like this next season
1 and 2. Yanks/Blue Jays toss up, one wins the East and the other is a Wild Card team
3.Rays 5 gb
4.Orioles 7gb
5.red sox 30gb
I'm not surprised, at all, that the Sox fans you know aren't particularly knowledgeable one.
Oh really? You know the opening day rosters?
Well, i guess I am expecting too much from you to admit Gomes was overpaid, even tho you know as well.
As much as Toronto has improved and the already strong O's and Rays, not to mention the Yanks are bringing most of the team back, especially the starting pitching, plus possibly Pineda by June1 and dont forget a healthy Gardner from day one and likely Ichiro full time in right, i just cant see the red sox doing enough with the weak free agent list and lack of talent from the farm. Whats left, a big trade? At what expense? Dont see it rumpie, maybe 4th if your really really lucky, even third wont get you a wild card and no way are you making up enuf ground to finish first or second in THAT division.
As much as Toronto has improved and the already strong O's and Rays, not to mention the Yanks are bringing most of the team back, especially the starting pitching, plus possibly Pineda by June1 and dont forget a healthy Gardner from day one and likely Ichiro full time in right, i just cant see the red sox doing enough with the weak free agent list and lack of talent from the farm. Whats left, a big trade? At what expense? Dont see it rumpie, maybe 4th if your really really lucky, even third wont get you a wild card and no way are you making up enuf ground to finish first or second in THAT division.
According to fangraphs, Gomes was worth $9.9 in 2012, $6.6 in 2011. Why don't you fill me in with your analysis along with the methodology you used to back your numbers up?
As for the rest of the league, the Yankees are old and getting older, have a gimpy shortstop likely to revert to the mean of the last few years, minus deterioration for age and injury. Swisher is gone, repeat seasons from Chavez and Ibanez are a wet dream. 85-86 wins at best.
Baltimore will, as do most teams that take a huge leap, revert toward the mean. They also had an unrepeatable record in close games. They're an 81-82 win team at best.
Tampa has lost Upton from an already weak offense. Right now, the Rays and Jays are the class of the division.
The Sox are too incomplete to analyze in any meaningful way. They're probably a .500 team right now. How they spend (or don't spend) the $70 million they have at their disposal will tell the tale. The farm system is also loaded. Will they deal some of it off?
As for the rest of the league, the Yankees are old and getting older, have a gimpy shortstop likely to revert to the mean of the last few years, minus deterioration for age and injury. Swisher is gone, repeat seasons from Chavez and Ibanez are a wet dream. 85-86 wins at best.
Baltimore will, as do most teams that take a huge leap, revert toward the mean. They also had an unrepeatable record in close games. They're an 81-82 win team at best.
Tampa has lost Upton from an already weak offense. Right now, the Rays and Jays are the class of the division.
The Sox are too incomplete to analyze in any meaningful way. They're probably a .500 team right now. How they spend (or don't spend) the $70 million they have at their disposal will tell the tale. The farm system is also loaded. Will they deal some of it off?
Only in rumpie-land do the red sox go from 24 games under .500 to suddenly a .500 team because of David Ross and the overpaid jonny gomes! :lol: What, did you clone Roger Clemens and Pedro Martinez from 10 years ago and sign them up this offseason
Um, first off, the Sox were 12 wins under .500 last year. How do they go to .500; easy.Only in rumpie-land do the red sox go from 24 games under .500 to suddenly a .500 team because of David Ross and the overpaid jonny gomes! :lol: What, did you clone Roger Clemens and Pedro Martinez from 10 years ago and sign them up this offseason
They lost 2 wins to Ortiz' injury, 1 to Middlebrooks', Ellsbury went from a WAR of 8 to 1, split the difference and give him 3 more wins this year. Jon Lester had an off season going from an average WAR over the previous 4 years of 5 to less than .5. There's 4 more wins. Buchholz went from a 3.5 average to 1. Add another 2. That's 12 wins added, without considering Gomes, who is probably worth 1.5, not bad for a part time player. When you also consider that they'll be replacing the -2.8 WAR for Matsuzaka and Aaron Cook with John Lackey, even if Lackey pitches to a 0, there's another 3 wins.
I realize you hate statistical analysis and anything else that has to do with reality, but here you go.
Here's another little bit for you: the Sox' Pythagorean record was 74-88 last year, a difference of five games and the highest differential in all of MLB. It's highly unlikely they'll be that unlucky next year. (No, I'm not going to explain this for you. Look it up. Learn something.)
Looks like a lot of excuses in your post there rumpie, as usual. Lots of if this happened or if that happens, also's and buts....Face it, what it comes down to is management and also needing better players. I will take reality and a well run team and you can take your poorly run team with all your graphs and metrics and when they dont favor your theory you can lay blame on the injury bug again next season.
I dont hate advanced stats, they can be fun to play around with, but they have flaws, case in point, the 2012 red sox. (save the injury excuses, it is old)
I dont hate advanced stats, they can be fun to play around with, but they have flaws, case in point, the 2012 red sox. (save the injury excuses, it is old)
Only in rumpie-land do the red sox go from 24 games under .500 to suddenly a .500 team because of David Ross and the overpaid jonny gomes! :lol: What, did you clone Roger Clemens and Pedro Martinez from 10 years ago and sign them up this offseason
Iggy does make a good point. The Red Sox did end up being 24 games under .500.
On another note, many in Red Sox Nation are wondering what the hell Cherington is waiting for to sign players considering all the $$ he saved with the trade to the Dodgers last season. However, as reported several days ago, owner John Henry is rumoured to be having severe financial problems & might be forced to sell the baseball team. So it's entirely possible that the Red Sox might not be big spenders until the team is sold.
I think they should give Hamilton 50 mil a yr, Swisher 40 mil per, Greinke 40 mil per and void the Jonny F'in Gomes and David Ross contracts and do over to the tune of 30 mil per each, bankrupt the sox completely and move them to triple a and bring the paw sox up to be the red sox. Cant be any worse can they :noidea:
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Yes, but add 12 wins, take away 12 losses and you're at .500. I pointed out above how they make up those 12 with the current roster. And I also noted how their run differential shows how bad luck cost them 5 games.
Their not a contender now, but a well spent $40-50 M puts them right up there with the Jays. For example, Josh Hamilton, Nick Swisher and Anibal Sanchez and they'll be very tough to beat.
I'd LOVE for the Sox to sign Hamilton & Swisher, but i doubt their bankrupt owner will want to spend that much $$ to sign them. However, if Henry does sell the team (as i expect him to), the new owner might want to go full out & overspend everybody.
Russell Martin update:
I just heard that he might be leaning on signing with the Pittsburgh Pirates. I heard he might get a longer deal with them & he likes the team's potential (and youth).
I just heard that he might be leaning on signing with the Pittsburgh Pirates. I heard he might get a longer deal with them & he likes the team's potential (and youth).
Where do you get the idea that Henry and Werner are bankrupt? They seem to be loaded and making a pretty good profit with the Sox. Right now, the Sox project to be into the 2013 team for about $95 M when all the players under control are signed. I doubt that they're going to go back to $175 M for next year, but they can certainly compete with the Jays and Rays if they get to $140-$150.
Considering the amount of money they generate through NESN and ticket sales, they really need to compete to keep the revenue stream flowing.
He'd be a pretty big loss considering that they have no one to replace him. Another case of the Yankees holding back on contracts taking them beyond the 2013 season. It could also be that they only want players who are getting senior citizens discounts on their road trips and Martin could be too young for them.
They would be nice fits, but it would take more than just them for the red sox to be up there with the Yanks and Jays and contend for a wild card. Add in Anibal Sanchez like rumps wants and they could possibly leap frog Baltimore however. They need 2 good starters on top of the 2 outfielders to contend, possibly, dont forget the east got alot better with the Jays doing what they have done so far and that alone makes it tougher for the red sox to compete as they have the most work to do in the east as the Yankees are the Yankees and both the O's and Rays are better on this date and both could also add pieces before April.
Lets look at what the red sox have now.... Lester is clearly not the same lester and has lost something, buckholz is good for 20 starts per season with his lingering back problems, lackey sucked before he was injured so surgery is not gonna help "sucking" when he was healthy to all the sudden be alot better to the tune of what they need out of him. Doubront is a nice 4 or 5 starter. Basically as of now they have two #3's and two # 4's... it is not gonna be easy to find a #1 and a #2 this offseason.
Lets look at what the red sox have now.... Lester is clearly not the same lester and has lost something, buckholz is good for 20 starts per season with his lingering back problems, lackey sucked before he was injured so surgery is not gonna help "sucking" when he was healthy to all the sudden be alot better to the tune of what they need out of him. Doubront is a nice 4 or 5 starter. Basically as of now they have two #3's and two # 4's... it is not gonna be easy to find a #1 and a #2 this offseason.
Another one bites the dust: Upton signs with Atlanta
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-b...t-braves-changing-twitter-235651594--mlb.html
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-b...t-braves-changing-twitter-235651594--mlb.html
Surprised there hasn't been any mention of the absurd overpaying for the ancient (41) Andy Pettitte. Lol. $12M for 1 year for a guy who can't go more than 5 innings a game? Well done Brain, I mean Brian..Bwwwaaahh!!
As i mentionned the other day, Bob Ryan, formerly of The Boston Globe, was on PrimeTime Sports (FAN 590/Rogers Sportsnet) and they were discussing this. Among many items being discussed was that he had lost a lot of money due in his investment firms, and his investment in a british soccer team (I believe Liverpool) hadn't done well & the team was struggling financially.
It was alluded during the discussion that Henry might not have a choice but to sell the baseball team in order to avoid personal bankruptcy.
If i can find the link to the discussion i will post it later.
However, here is what i also found in relation to Mr. Henry's current financial problems:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...enrys-financial-problems-mean-for-the-red-sox
I was surprised also, considering that the Yankees knew that they were only team in the major leagues that Pettite wanted to play for.
Pettitte got what a capable 14+ win per season pitcher gets now a days, actually on the low side considering some. Plus he was underpaid last year so good for Andy. If he would have been open to going elsewhere he likely would have got at least the same but probably another mil or 2.
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