With C-36 looming, can we put SPs and/or MPs out of business if we are not discrete?

[daydreamer41]

From what I have been told concerning tuition in Canada, tuition is cheap compared to the United States.

The young women I have met who were actually in college in Montreal while doing SP work, needed the money more for living expenses, e.g. dorm room or apartment, food, utilities, etc. in addition to the modest tuition.

The one item the article you posted sort of mentions, but does not spell out is the role of the agencies for the women. The agencies are the real protectors of these women.

The agencies know where the women are, who they are with, and how long they will be with the women. Making the transaction illegal from the agency point of view in no certain terms, in the customer's private location, actually puts the women at risk. She may try to conduct her business by herself, although in this model she is still not acting illegally unless she is near a school, etc., where there are juveniles. Anyone who interacts with her transaction wise is acting illegal. She will do all she can to protect the transaction, the client, and any protector IF she uses one. So the danger for her is not the law. It is protecting her business partners and customers from the law. In that way, I agree with the article. Whether it is tuition or the provider is a single mother, or the bread winner for an unemployed household (I have met these women in this business), the government doesn't understand the sex providing business. Their myopic view of the reality is startling.

 

[Siocnarf]

Sweden is an example of this nonsensical strategy, already.

It is my understanding that Swedes are very law abiding and see social order above individual liberties. They seem to have a long history of social engineering. In their context they decided ideology was above the safety of sex workers. It's quite shocking to see our government do that in our context, right after something like the Bedford decision.

 

[BookerL]

Hi all


In witch Court in Quebec it is more likely that the new law will be used to prosecute ?
Court of Quebec criminal chamber !
Whatever the new law says the Judge knows that the Charter of Rights super seeds the criminal code he cannot simply disregard it .http://www.tribunaux.qc.ca/mjq_en/c-quebec/Communiques/depliant_etre_juge.htm#makedecision
How does a judge make a decision?

Rendering a decision in judicial matters is a structured, analytical process that is based on:

Proof of the facts established, for instance, by way of sworn statements, documents, tangible evidence or testimonies;

The laws and regulations adopted by the legislator;

Jurisprudence and legal doctrine:
jurisprudence consists of all the decisions rendered by the courts on the same or similar issues;
doctrine refers to legal articles, periodicals and texts that relate to the issues at trial;

A greater degree of required evidence in criminal matters (beyond a reasonable doubt)

Can a judge act independently?

Yes. That is fundamental.

It is the judge's duty to enforce the law, without fear or favouritism, free from any pressure and without concern as to how the decision will be received.

Moreover, the judge's attitude and remarks must reflect impartiality. The judge must therefore be neutral, without bias. The judge must stay out of politics and avoid any activity or association that might compromise that impartiality.

In addition, the judge's independence is guaranteed, having been appointed during good behaviour, which means that only very serious reasons can remov:lol:e the judge from office. Moreover, the judge is a member of a court, which is a separate institution from the government or any of its departments.

By insuring that the judge enjoys these three characteristics, society is assured that the judge will have nothing to gain or lose, regardless of the outcome of the case.

The judge's independence consequently ensures fair and equitable trials which, by the same token, is an essential guarantee bent on maintaining the public's confidence in our judicial system.


The judge does not have to please the Police ! Luckily



Cheers


Booker

 

[Siocnarf]

Yes, and this article does a good job (IMHO) of discussing the Kvinnofrid law as a failed attempt at social engineering:

THE SWEDISH LAW TO CRIMINALIZE CLIENTS: A FAILED EXPERIMENT IN SOCIAL ENGINEERING

Yes, and here's another interesting read
http://myweb.dal.ca/mgoodyea/Documents/Sweden/400,000%20Swedish%20perverts%20Kulick%20GLQ%2011%282%29%202005%20205-35.pdf
FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND SWEDISH PERVERTS
Don Kulick

 

[gugu]

Despite women still facing some resistance in upper echelon jobs there are a lot more opportunities and choices overall in so-called regular jobs. But I wonder about how more openness about the sex industry has affected choices at the escort level and thus affected numbers of women in the industry even with drawbacks like C36?

That's what I meant when I said the market is drawing from a more diversified class of women, many doing this part time btw. The drawback of C36 will depend on what happens to price levels. The legislator is mainly concerned with the recruitment. He hopes the demand will fall, hitting the prices. That would make sex work less attractive for young women. It will happen in the short term but it will not persist.

 

[Siocnarf]

He hopes the demand will fall, hitting the prices. That would make sex work less attractive for young women. It will happen in the short term but it will not persist.

But if prices go down, guess what? Demand starts to go up! Also the fact that SPs are not criminalized may encourage more casual workers to try it. Supply also create demand. Given the not-so tangible decrease they got in Sweden with all their enforcement budget, I expect we will see even less of an effect here.

 

[BookerL]

But if prices go down, guess what? Demand starts to go up! I expect we will see even less of an effect here.

Lets hope you are right in this assumption!Here being Montreal or Quebec or Canada?

Regards


Booker

 

[wilbur]

Yes, and here's another interesting read
http://myweb.dal.ca/mgoodyea/Documents/Sweden/400,000%20Swedish%20perverts%20Kulick%20GLQ%2011%282%29%202005%20205-35.pdf
FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND SWEDISH PERVERTS
Don Kulick

The more I read about this stuff, the wackier Sweden sounds as a society. Men totally subservient to female radical feminists. What I gathered from this paper is that, in Sweden, the buying of sex has been made pathological, a mental illness or deviancy. There is Good sex in Sweden and bad sex. Good sex is with love and tenderness whereas bad sex does not have that. So men going after bad sex (prostitution) are sexual deviants because 'normal' men don't do that. Those who resort of bad sex have to go see therapists so that their childhoods have to be straightened out and have to learn how to be real men and join men's discussion groups in order to develop their their feminine side, such as tenderness. Men who buy sex are deemed inherently violent.

 

[mar.anton]

Just thought of something: if anything the prices might go down and not just because of supply and demand.

If you make buying illegal but selling is still legal, the seller has a strong reason to create incentives for the buyer. If I understand correctly, right now it's pretty fair. But, once the proposition comes into effect there will be an unbalanced playing field. The buyer will be discouraged and to lure them back the seller must start trying to compensate for that discouragement. This is ofc in very broad terms but even if supply and demand don't play a major role, this might

 

[Gabriella Laurence]

Just thought of something: if anything the prices might go down and not just because of supply and demand.

If you make buying illegal but selling is still legal, the seller has a strong reason to create incentives for the buyer. If I understand correctly, right now it's pretty fair. But, once the proposition comes into effect there will be an unbalanced playing field. The buyer will be discouraged and to lure them back the seller must start trying to compensate for that discouragement. This is ofc in very broad terms but even if supply and demand don't play a major role, this might

I will not speculate on, when Bill C-36 becomes law, how it will affect supply and demand. I would only like to comment and add a different perspective on how the new law could potentially affect prices in the independent spectrum of the industry.

I agree with your statement above but with influential and distinct nuances:
I believe a new sex worker without a reputation (for a lack of better words), one that isn't established, one that is not recognized as being legit (and not LE or a B&S), etc. would most likely benefit from offering inviting incentives such as a lower rate in order to draw in a clientele. After all, seeing her will be a total gamble so a low price might entice a more adventurous type of client.

On the other hand, established ladies will bring added value to the table, invisible value that has not always been recognized by some people (who believe "worth" is only about the perfect body and average market rates/low rates), and will indeed be able to offer the client(s) what they are looking for: mind-appeasing safety and discretion. To the gentlemen I spend time with, safety and discretion is worth much more than what they give me in an envelop so once Bill C-36 comes around, those aspects of an encounter, along with trust and confidentiality, will still be highly sought after.

IMO, for those ladies, rates will not go down and may even go up.

I know I am speculating here but the results might be that we will have two extremes in prices in the industry.

 

[BookerL]

Hi all
Speculating on how it will be after C-36 is in full force is difficult because many pieces are missing in the equation , such has what will the instructions by Provincial Governments in charge of the application ,how will the interpreters of the laws ,the Judges will apply the new law ,there is no precedents at the moment no doctrine to follow .
Where does the market for escorts age stands many admits that they are in the hobby for 18-22 young ladies will they stop or shift .
Many unpredictability makes it hard to speculate with likely scenarios .

Good Luck


Booker

 

[escapefromstress]

Hi all
Speculating on how it will be after C-36 is in full force is difficult because many pieces are missing in the equation , such has what will the instructions by Provincial Governments in charge of the application ,how will the interpreters of the laws ,the Judges will apply the new law ,there is no precedents at the moment no doctrine to follow .
Where does the market for escorts age stands many admits that they are in the hobby for 18-22 young ladies will they stop or shift .
Many unpredictability makes it hard to speculate with likely scenarios .

Good Luck


Booker

I'm hoping that everyone will share as much information as possible as each province and municipality reveals their strategy for enforcing the new law, then we can share with all industry forums and hopefully keep people safe.

 

[BookerL]

I'm hoping that everyone will share as much information as possible as each province and municipality reveals their strategy for enforcing the new law, then we can share with all industry forums and hopefully keep people safe.

Yes definitely
The legal strategies from the crown and defense will be certainly be interesting to follow .
It will also be interesting to see the attitude of different Provincial Governments
towards the law and even in smaller populated ereas of Quebec where sentencing tends to be heavier then Montreal for same exact crime.
To be well informed permits us to make better decisions with better results

Cheers




Booker

 

[gugu]

I agree with your statement above but with influential and distinct nuances

Great comment Gabriella. Pye Jakobson gives a similar statement about what happened in Sweden.

 

[Gabriella Laurence]

Great comment Gabriella. Pye Jakobson gives a similar statement about what happened in Sweden.

Thanks for the reference, Gugu. I was unaware of Miss Jakobson (haven't done much research on the Swedish model yet) but I'll look her up when I have more time. I bet she has some interesting and relevant opinions to offer on the subject.

Gabby xox

 

[somebodymtl]

Can't agree more with BookerL. All we can do at this moment is speculation, and with so many variables missing from the equation, it's hard to predict what will happen exactly in the future. Right now let's just have our fingers crossed and hope for the best.

My greatest concerns are incalls. We have some very nice incall establishment around and I certainly hope they won't get affected too much. Outcall on the other hand, IMHO, will be impacted less compared to incalls. Again, it's only my speculation.

 

[Siocnarf]

To the gentlemen I spend time with, safety and discretion is worth much more than what they give me in an envelop so once Bill C-36 comes around, those aspects of an encounter, along with trust and confidentiality, will still be highly sought after.

Exactly, we pay for convenience and peace of mind. I assume well established ladies are also less likely to be bothered by the police. New ladies will have the double problem of gaining the confidence of clients and convincing police that they are not trafficked.

 

[BookerL]

Hi all
Subjects to a Police arrest ,most people think it happens to others but not to them,like a feeling of invisibility until the hammer drops.
I was subject of police surveillance, here's the anecdote .
Was traveling between Ottawa and Fredericton NB 3 times a week and Ottawa ,Montreal daily with my partner that I was picking up in Laval.
He met one day a guy in Fredericton at a bank where we did business ,he met the same guy the next in Ottawa in a bank .
We spoke about it and discarded the possibility of a Police tail ,I will never do that mistake again ,who can recognize a Police tail if you have never been caught the hand in the cookie jar ?
A police arrest does change your life even when you beat the charges !

Good luck to all

Warmest Regards


Booker

 

[snoodle]

I remember when pay TV first came out. They use to sell these decoders at the flea market to descramble the channel and get it for free.
It was legal to sell it but illegal to buy it.
I never saw the cops stop anyone for buying it so i dont see why the cops would waste their time stopping anyone for booking an escort.
They have better things to do.

 

[BookerL]

Might that be having a coffee and donuts !:lol:

Cheers


Booker