Need a legal advice, i know some of you are lawyers and/or know more than me.

Halloween Mike · Aug 6, 2018

So i came into the desjardins "caisse" dispensers area (its like a bank in Quebec) with something and like an idiot i forgot it as i left. When i got back there it was gone. Now this is a small town and on a sunday there is probably not a lot of peoples going there. Do you think i have a chance to make a complain to the police as they could see the person taking the object on the cameras.

Does it count as theft or since i left without it, even tough i forgot it, it does not?

No its not my wallet or a card or something with my name on it...

Morris · Aug 6, 2018

You claim illegal deed or theft, so I suspect it is finders keepers. Unless the finder returns it, you are out of luck.

EagerBeaver · Aug 6, 2018

This reminds me of a larceny 7th degree charge I was involved with around 15 years ago. Client was a high school student who found a cellphone left behind in class. Rather than do the right thing and bring it to the attention of the teacher or the school administration “lost and found”, he kept the phone. Worse yet, he scratched off the initials of the owner of the phone. A classmate of the phone’s rightful owner then spotted him using the phone. When it was reported to the school authorities, they notified the police and the client was charged with Larceny 7th degree.

Some of you may ask why charge a juvenile with such a petty thing, and the reason why he got charged is (a) he had previously been suspended from the school for prior disciplinary issues, and (b) the client’s mother was apparently a thorn in the side of the school’s administrators and had really pissed them off. I am pretty sure the police were made aware of (a).

The charge ended up getting nolled, conditionally. The conditions were return of the phone and purchase of a new case because the old case had been damaged.

My question to Mike is whether there is anything in the lost or stolen merchandise that identifies Mike as the rightful owner. If yes, the matter should be reported to police. If no, it’s likely gone and not worth doing anything.

Flyingby · Aug 6, 2018

I would check with the caisse the if someone brought it back.

Halloween Mike · Aug 6, 2018

EagerBeaver said:
My question to Mike is whether there is anything in the lost or stolen merchandise that identifies Mike as the rightful owner. If yes, the matter should be reported to police. If no, it’s likely gone and not worth doing anything.

Sadly no my name is not on it or anything, but you can surely see me entering with the item in hand on camera. I can also describe the item in question.

I found this on wikipedia but do not know if it can apply

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_by_finding

And yes i did go to the caisse today and give my name and number in case the person would bring it back... but i doubt it.

EagerBeaver · Aug 6, 2018

Theft by finding is exactly what led my client to be charged with Larceny 7th degree. But those kinds of charges are discretionary by the prosecutor and I have given the reasons why my client got charged. I don’t believe he should have been charged after he returned the phone. The damage to the phone case was not a criminal matter. It was a small claims matter.

However unless there is also video evidence of the “finding” of the item I think it’s gone. It would depend on how conclusive any video evidence is of your ownership. The most you can do is report it to the cops but I doubt it will be pursued, because absent video evidence of someone taking it, it’s seems like a needle in a haystack and cops don’t go off on Wild Goose chases, with no leads or solid evidence. In terms of civil remedies there is an action called conversion. I one time brought a lawsuit on behalf of a client whose dog (Labrador Retriever) was given away by a friend while my client was in a 30 day drug rehab. There was a miscommunication and the client told the friend to find the dog a good home while she was checked into rehab, not to give it away. We sued the new owners for the dog back alleging replevin and conversion. I lost at trial mainly because my client was a drug addict and the new owners appeared to be solid stand up citizens. So even if you identify new owner and sue him or her you must establish your own ownership and that you did not abandon the property. The abandonment defense killed me in that dog case. That case was when I just started practicing - would never take such a fucking dogshit case now LOL.

Like_It_Hot · Aug 7, 2018

Halloween Mike

There is a problem helping you. We know what it is not but we have no clue what it might be. If it's something illegal, forget it. If it's have no real value, forget it. Otherwise go to the police (you will have of course to tell them what it is all about) they will look at the video band, if they are still available, and tell you what they will or will not do. Strange question????

luvdozer · Aug 7, 2018

You are going about this ass-backwards. You lost an item. It is not up to you to figure out whether anyone who may have taken the item has committed a crime. All you should care about is getting the item back. Go back to the establishment and see if someone turned it in. If no one turned it in, ask them to check the security footage to see if anyone can be seen picking up the item. If they refuse then go to the police and file a report. The cops will tell you what they can and cannot do. You dont need legal advice, you need to get off your butt and take action.

freedom3 · Aug 8, 2018

Yes, it would count as theft. I even saw a clip about this on tv recently. Someone left some suitcases in a pick up area of a condo building and some people grabbed them. The people were spotted on security tapes and the police charged them. They tried to claim that the suitcases had been abandoned.

EagerBeaver · Aug 8, 2018

From personal experience for an abandonment defense to succeed there has to be some evidence of an intention to abandon the item instead of simply forgetting about it. If there is some doubt the finder of the merchandise has a duty to take reasonable steps to determine whether there is some claim of ownership. In the case mentioned by freedom3 the finder could have done this by alerting condo security which would have viewed the security tapes and determined the rightful owner.

Regarding the posts admonishing HM to take self help measures I assumed he took those steps and they failed to locate the merchandise. Otherwise why would he be posting?

luvdozer · Aug 8, 2018

Sorry if my comment came across as admonishment - i am just saying that he doesnt need legal advice. It is not up to the crime victim to figure out whether someone else has a valid defense. Just go to the cops and file a report. They will tell you what can and cannot happen.

EagerBeaver · Aug 8, 2018

Luvdozer,

I agree it’s not up to the crime victim to determine if defenses may apply but I think it’s helpful for Mike to know how a prosecutor or civil court will look at such a case. Mike can report it to the police and they are not required to do anything necessarily. Self help within the extent of the law is always a nice first step. The legal system does not provide a remedy for every legal wrong.

Flyingby · Aug 8, 2018

Don’t waste your time. The bank won’t view the video without a police or judges request. The cops won’t look into this. I’s a waste of time. Unfortunately you are shit out of luck unless a good samaritan brought it back

Halloween Mike · Aug 10, 2018

Thanks to everybody that contributed.

I did go to the place and the "clerk" or whatever they call the bank worker at the counter almost looked annoyed... I told her i lost it and she seem to not care, i even had to ask her to take my name and phone number in case someone would return it.

I didn't call the cops in the end, mostly because of the small value of the item. Still piss me off to loose money, especially since i don't role on it right now. I had lots of debts to repay due to last month comiccon (borrowed money to have one hell of a trip) and i just finished paying them up and that one little thing i bough for myself was like the only thing i could afford that week :/

You guys will laugh but ill tell you what it is. An Xbox Live subscription card... My xbox live just finished and i needed a new one so i got to the video store down the steet, bough the card, and for some unknown stupid reason instead of putting it in my pocket, i kept it in my hand. When i arrived at the bank i just put it on the side thingy, and i forgot to grab it back as i got out. For the ones wondering i was taking money out of the atm to pay the debts ...

Thanksfully i didn't loose any additional money and the item lost is not something of sentimental/convenience value like sunglasses or a hat i love, as in it can be replace, its just a loss of its monetary value. Obviously ANYBODY could take it and if they don't own an xbox, they can always resell it anywhere like facebook video game groups for 90/80% of value and make a buck... I even left the video store "movies of the month" paper thing wich they also took and the invoice was thumb tack on the card... so not even the invoice to try to have it canceled or whatever.

It could be worst sure, as i did "lost" 2 times my favorite caps when i was younger, one time it was an ecko (when it was THE popular brand) that i had just paid 50$ and i was 16 so it hurted, the second time it was a Halo 3 cap i got as a pre-order bonus when the game came out. The halo one had a bit of wear and was brown instead of black due to sun so i guess it was a little less annoying but still. I even lost a Gold ring once again when i was 16. I never wear rings(at least not of value), but i was meeting my girlfriend of the time wich was in a different city and i wanted to look "cool" so i put it on. Was my grand father's ring. Its monetary value was low as the jewels on it where gone but it was the sentimental value... I removed it to wash my hands and forgot it on the counter of the bathroom at my girlfriend's school...

Obviously my girlfriend check with the secretery for the lost and found items but it never turn in... Still mad at me to this day for that one specifically.

I hate loosing money and even more my stuff. I was very piss when i realized my xbox card was gone. I spent the week without being able to play on the internet because of it as i had no money to buy another one. But i guess if i can see the positive of a negative situation, since today xbox live is free to play for everybody (i guess for the weekend) so even if now i could get a new card i can wait to enter the code and enjoy the free days... "lol"

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Need a legal advice, i know some of you are lawyers and/or know more than me.

Halloween Mike

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Morris

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EagerBeaver

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Flyingby

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Halloween Mike

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EagerBeaver

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Like_It_Hot

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luvdozer

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freedom3

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EagerBeaver

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luvdozer

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EagerBeaver

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Flyingby

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Halloween Mike

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