Long term arrangements

[EagerBeaver]

Rumples I was in Portland Old Port District this summer. I loved it. I stayed at the Portland Harbor Hotel which is the hotel to stay at in Portland- location wise and it’s also an excellent hotel. I noticed that there are lot of brick buildings there, in fact pretty much all of them in that Old Port area. I ate lobster and fresh oysters and clams all week. Portland is now pretty much without question the premiere restaurant city per capita in New England (if not the USA) and the beer capital of New England.

If Collins gets something it might be her name on a lobster roll at Eventide Oyster House. Eventide is making the premier lobster roll in Portland and I dined on one of these delicious little things as well as their house Cole Slaw which is the best I ever had in my life. They might also name a drink after Collins, perhaps the Maine Martini which is blueberry vodka with Maine Blueberries can be mixed with Brett Kavanaugh beer for the “Susan Collins special.”

Maine lobster rolls differs from their Connecticut cousins. Maine features a little mayo dressing whereas Connecticut version is a lemon butter sauce. Maine Clam chowder differs from New England clam chowder - uses roughly half the milk and cream. Only us salt of the earth New Englanders know the subtle differences in cuisine within the region.

The lobster food truck now serving Southern Connecticut has on its menu both State’s lobster rolls:

https://www.cousinsmainelobster.com/menu/?location=southern_connecticut&type=truck

 

[CaptRenault]

....These young women that I know are waaaaay more in touch with modern feminism than you could ever hope to be. Of course, thing are certainly quite different in the deep South. The fact that some old guy thinks he has a better handle on what feminism is than do these articulate, urbane young women is quite telling...and sad...and hilarious. I'm sure they'd be quite amused to have you educate them.

Rumples to CR: "You're an old, privileged white male!" :rant:


Your logical fallacy is ad hominen

ad hominem

You attacked your opponent's character or personal traits in an attempt to undermine their argument.

Ad hominem attacks can take the form of overtly attacking somebody, or more subtly casting doubt on their character or personal attributes as a way to discredit their argument. The result of an ad hom attack can be to undermine someone's case without actually having to engage with it.

 

[sambuca]

Stop with the Kavanaugh and Collins nonsense. The crazy Left gave it the ol' college try. It's over!

Blasey Ford's story was only minimally defensible because of the new pop credo that you have to believe a woman's allegation. Everything about her story fell apart including things that just happened this summer. You can hardly say the trauma from thirty-six years ago led her to forget that she wasn't afraid of flying, not claustrophobic and not sure what therapist's notes were turned over to the Washington Post. And none of this is being reported by 80% of the media.

It's a sad day for America that we are believing either a professional liar or a greatly disturbed woman all in the name of politics.

 

[sambuca]

A very prominent one was John Rowland, who was both a Congressmen from CT and later a long time Governor of Connecticut. He is in jail now. Joe Lieberman was a Democrat who ran as VP with Gore but later converted to Republicanism

I'm asking you which Republicans today are benefiting from the defense spending in CT and RI. Rowland hasn't been in office since 2004. Lieberman is not a Republican. He is defeated moderate Democrat.

We all go back to Tip O'Neill and Dan Rostenkowski (jailed) who were the kings of pork barrel. It's a bit of a self-indulgent political fantasy to call out the Republicans for pork barrel spending. The party that controls Congress is going to approve questionable spending.

I would have named Romney Secretary of Defense with a mandate of restructuring the military. Rumsfeld was an intellectually lazy dolt. He thought like a 1980s/90s CEO that you can just starve an organization. I think Trump wants to actually shrink the military's footprint, but the Generals and Admirals will resist. We will greatly reduce our presence next year in Afghanistan. The Generals don't have a clue. Similar to Vietnam, but the Generals learned their lesson trying to send soldiers out to control territory for fleeting moments. The Generals do like their wartime slush spending though.

PS- The US military failed to meet it's quota goal for recruiting. That's fine with me. Although the military does some great things for young and underprivileged men, I wouldn't be the first one to say that much of military recruitment is a youth jobs program.

 

[hungry101]

Blasey Ford's story was only minimally defensible because of the new pop credo that you have to believe a woman's allegation. Everything about her story fell apart including things that just happened this summer. You can hardly say the trauma from thirty-six years ago led her to forget that he wasn't afraid of flying, not claustrophobic and not sure what therapist's notes were turned over to the Washington Post. And none of this is being reported by 80% of the media.

But what about the double doors???? Ohhhhhh???? If you were felt up wouldn't you put on more doors? A storm door maybe? What a bunch of nonsense.

Back to SB. It seems to me that with all the pressure from LE and with what happened to to TER and BP, that SB is becoming more and more a way to legitimize prostitution. Look at the escorts on Eros that the Captain linked in this thread. I think the lowest cost one was 400$/hour and I wouldn't fuck half of them for free.
We have lost a lot of hobbyists from this forum with SB.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

You attacked your opponent's character or personal traits in an attempt to undermine their argument.

Actually, Louis, I wasn't attacking your character or personal traits. I just find it amusing to find a middle aged man telling a bunch of feminists that they aren't really feminists.

Tellya what. Next time you're in town, how about we get together with a few of my feminist friends and you can mansplain to them how they're not really feminists, how you really have a better handle than they do on what feminism really is and how their women's studies profs had it all wrong and you have it all right. Let's see how that plays out.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Portland is now pretty much without question the premiere restaurant city per capita in New England (if not the USA) and the beer capital of New England.

Beav, you may very well be right about the restaurant part of this, but not the beer. The beer capital of New England, if not the entire US, is Vermont, the entire state from Waterbury (home of The Alchemist and Heady Topper) to Greensboro (home of Hill Farmstead) to Waitsfield (home of Lawson's Finest Liquids.)

These three brewers account for six of the top fifty beers on this worldwide list. For a long time, Heady Topper topped this list.
https://www.beeradvocate.com/lists/top/

 

[sambuca]

Rumple, I don't believe you are the gatekeeper to feminists or defining feminism. It's such a broad term anyone can usurp it and claim they are a feminist or they hang-out with feminists.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Rumples I have spoken to a few beer aficionado friends and I can assure you Portland is the craft beer King of New England. A friend of mine who operates a beer blog debriefed me on it and it’s also been written up in Fodor’s and other travel guides.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Rumple, I don't believe you are the gatekeeper to feminists or defining feminism. It's such a broad term anyone can usurp it and claim they are a feminist or they hang-out with feminists.

Nor would I claim to be. There certainly is a strain of feminists who believe that all sex work is exploitative. And there's a strain that believes it to be liberating. And then there's Andrea Dworkin who believed that all sex was violence against women. But, again, I dare some middle aged man to tell a bunch of young feminists that they aren't what they claim to be.

And, laughably, there's an anti-choice fundamental Christian bunch who call themselves "Feminists for Life."

 

[sambuca]

But what about the double doors???? Ohhhhhh???? If you were felt up wouldn't you put on more doors? A storm door maybe? What a bunch of nonsense.

I wouldn't be surprised if you could get her therapist to speak candidly they would say "Christine? Oh yeah, she's delusional. She makes shit up." If this impeach Kavanaugh thing gets traction, the Republicans might have to do what they tried to avoid and show Blasey Ford for the big fraud that she is.

What else can they do if the House Dems try to make this a Senate trial? Oh yeah, we're impeaching him because he said he drank a lot, but he didn't tell the Judiciary committee that he was out of control drunk all the time with a propensity to black out. He transformed from No. 1 in his Ivy League class to gang rapist by way of the evil nectar........beer.

 

[Mod30]

Please get back to the subject of this thread, "Long term arrangements", or it will be closed.

 

[Raw1]

To all the guys who are paying through their noses, I have been intimate with over 30 girls from SA and the allowance I give is between 100 to max 300. I used to give 300 when I was new to the site but not anymore. It’s easy to get someone agree for 150 to 200 per meet. You just need to know how. It’s the same thing as in real life. A girl wants to be treated with respect and wants to meet a gentleman. As long as you treat her well, you can have a great time. Talking about being intimate on first dates, I have done that 27 out of 30 times as far as I remember. One girl just did not like me and left with an excuse. With the other 2 I had to wait for a second date. None of these meetings were per hour. If anyone asks to be paid by the hour or asks more than 300 or advance, I just delete the message. This means she is an escort. I absolutely love SA.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Raw1,

That may work in Montreal, but $150-$200 is not going to cut it in most venues in the USA.

 

[CaptRenault]

...That may work in Montreal, but $150-$200 is not going to cut it in most venues in the USA.

I agree with Eager. My experience is the same. If you are seeking a pay-per-meet arrangement in the U.S with a woman who meets a reasonably high standard of attractiveness and desirability, then you should expect to pay $250-500 per encounter. A typical encounter would last 2-3 hours.

You should not discuss specific details of the arrangement until you meet in person or at least until you take the communication off the SA message system to texting or email.

If you insist on using SA like an escort ad site, then there’s a good chance you will get banned, as Jalimon found out.

 

[MattMiller]

New York Stories: A ‘Sugar Date’ Gone Sour. New York Times, Oct. 15, 2018
In the fuzzy space between jobs and relationships, there’s a lot that can go wrong.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/style/sugar-dating-seeking-arrangement.html

 

[EagerBeaver]

MattMiller

That's the ole reverse scamaroo. However there are a lot of scammers on the other side as well. Most of them are running online scams involving pics. There is a level of trust that needs to be established. The woman in that article should not have agreed to payment by Paypal from someone she was meeting in person. There was no excuse to fall for that story, she should have simply said it's cash or there will be no sex, buster.

Also, payment confirmations are sent by PayPal, and she should have gotten one.

 

[CaptRenault]

New York Stories: A ‘Sugar Date’ Gone Sour. New York Times, Oct. 15, 2018
l

This is a typical New York Times article. It is written to show disdain for a sexual practice that doesn't fit the approved norms of the left (or the right) while at the same time providing a degree of titillation for the typical uptight NYT reader.

It's also very misleading. Based on my experience and the experience of others that I have read about here and elsewhere, this type of scam is not common. It can happen but it is not typical.

Here are some excerpts from the article with my comments:

In the fuzzy space between jobs and relationships, there’s a lot that can go wrong.

True, and this girl did a lot wrong.

When you are 24 years old, jobless, boyfriend-less and in a fight with your mom, moving to one of the most glamorous, ballyhooed cities in the world can seem like a good idea. Never mind the expense.

I don't agree that moving to NYC was a good idea for this girl.

The cost of living (and partying) was more than she could manage, along with her $25,000 in college student loan debt.

Too bad, but the world doesn't owe her a living.

Accelerated by the anonymity of the internet, sugar-dating is a variation on “escorting,” that practice formerly advertised at the back of New York magazine and the now-defunct Village Voice newspaper.

The writer's tone is dripping with scorn for women who make money by selling sex. Typical elitist, upper middle class view of women they consider beneath them.

Ms. Fowles hesitated at first, but she convinced herself that sugar-dating would result in her having something of a regular relationship with an older man who would pamper her with an allowance.

I don't buy the "But I didn't think I would have to provide sex!" argument.

It includes a section on “hypergamy,” or what used to be known as marrying up.

Feminists hate the word hypergamy, because it describes the practice of women marrying up (or at least across) in socioeconomic status, which is almost universal in all civilized societies.

Sugar Baby students receive an average of $3,000 in monthly allowances...

This is an unsupported, self-serving myth propagated by Seeking Arrangement to recruit women to the site. Some women might make that much or more but there's no way that $3K/month is the average.

“In New York, prostitution is sex for a fee. And in each instance, the questions are, ‘What constitutes sex, and what constitutes a fee?’” he said.

Yes, it would be hard to prove that seeking.com is a prostitution site. But don't think that the prostitution abolitionists won't try-they might.

Without any prior discussion, he would hand her $200 or $500. There was no sex.

That's believable.

“It was very natural and it felt like a normal hookup, except he gave me money after,” she said. Nine hundred bucks, to be precise.

Dude, you overpaid but it's New York so everything can cost a lot more than elsewhere. But even for NY, he overpaid....if her report is true and it might not be.

In March, Ms. Fowles decided she needed a regular allowance coming from a regular arrangement. She went back onto the site and soon received a message from a man who said his name was Jay and that he was an investment banker at Bain.

First big mistake, girl. It would have been easy to make him prove that. At least ask him ask for a business card! Young people with poor educations can be so dumb.

On the phone, “Jay” said that his name was really Ron...

A guy using a fake name is a huge red flag.

He asked her if she had a friend to bring along...

Another huge red flag.

Ms. Fowles felt an urgency to make it all happen.

Another big mistake.

He asked Ms. Fowles to book the room.

Yet another mistake.

He wanted them to wear thongs and high heels. Heavy makeup. He specifically requested “a smoky eye” and “a nude lip.”

She hasn't even met the guy and she is taking directions on how to dress up like a stereotypical hooker?

He was in grubby clothes and did not look like he had just come from a lunch meeting.

Red flag! Red flag! Red flag!

...he said he wanted to pay her and her friend via the PayPal app..

And she fell for it, hook, line and sinker.

Ms. Fowles and her friend then had sex with Ron. After his request for a massage (they said yes) and then a request for another go-round (they said no)...

At least they said "no" for once.

The women started Googling. They quickly found that the man had been an employee of City Hall and was now a student in a New York University program that is in Brooklyn, near the Jay Street-MetroTech subway stop. He’s married with children. He is not an investment banker (nor does he work at Bain, the management consultant firm).

The guy was an idiot too for thinking he could get away with his scam for long. I hope he got arrested or at least fired.

Ms. Fowles hopes to warn “sugar babies” of their vulnerability in finding “sugar parents” on websites like SeekingArrangement; if they are taken advantage of or abused in such relationships, they have little recourse.

That's true and that's why you take proper precautions before you commit to anything.

Mr. Agnifilo, the lawyer, said it is unlikely that Ms. Fowles committed solicitation or prostitution as outlined by New York state statutes.

Still, Ms. Fowles has washed her hands of sugar-dating, hoping to pursue a career in personal styling. And she makes no apologies for her experience.

I wish her good luck but that doesn't sound like a realistic way to solve her problems.

“Women are stigmatized and seen as repulsive and worthless when using their bodies to support themselves,” she said. “I was in a tough place financially, and I am O.K. with my decisions. Women have sex with vile men all the time so why shouldn’t we be paid for it if we choose? I don’t deserve to be shamed for it, or scammed because of it.”

I feel sorry for this girl. She would have been better off working as an actual escort and getting some help from an agency in how to do it right.. I agree that women are stigmatized by both conservative and feminist abolitionists for "using their bodies to support themselves." And that's an injustice. Unfortunately very few people are in a position to do anything about it.

 

[EagerBeaver]

I agree that it's very rare that a scammer can get as far as "Jay" did with Ms. Fowles. She failed to identify numerous red flags, the two biggest of which were him not getting the hotel room (which any real SD could have done even under an assumed name) and allowing payment via PayPal. which should have been declined in lieu of cash. These were inexcusable mistakes. She is portrayed as a victim but in truth, the vast majority of intelligent human beings would not have fallen for that scam.

 

[VictorGold]

Ms. Fowles' supposed "reverse scam" sounds incredulous. It seems to me a little common sense goes along way on Seeking and any other similar sites. But it's still a useful cautionary tale for SD ans SB. EB's strategies seem useful.