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Another mass shooting in the USA

hungry101

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2007
5,834
546
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I agree that Obama inherited something that he did not like. Though, I am sure that you are smart enough to realize that the terrorist attacks made by isis have nothing to do with Islam. Muslims are the first victims of isis attacks as some guy said above. Ironically, Russia looks like the only country who is fighting the terrorists of isis right now. For the rest, just follow the money. How did a group of terrorists manage to thrive in such a short time lapse? Qatar and Saudi Arabia come to my stupid mind, but I am stupid.

No Penguin I'm not very smart. I went to an engineering school and I spent most of the time studying something useful and marketable. I didn't spend a lot of time studying the social sciences such as underwater basket weaving, white guilt, and other liberal gobbledygook that these academics pass off as intellectualism...then grads are saddled with 100K debt and they are mad that no one wants to give them a six figured job right off the bat and as Patron their not gonna take it. Someone owes them a living...but I digress.

However, uou make an excellent point. ISIS has killed more Muslims than Christians. But ISIS has done a good job of eradicating the Middle East of all remaining Christians and I'm sure they would kill more if they could get their hands on them. It is just hard to say that ISIS has nothing to do with Islam when their goals are to restore the Islamic caliphate.
 

tiannas

Relocated
May 24, 2013
740
16
18
46
Las Vegas, NV
I have many friends and relatives in Canada, and none of them are talking about moving to the US.

They are out there. A Canadian adult child of a US Citizen will wait approximately 6+ years to obtain US permanent residency; due to the large number of immigration applications from Canadians.
 

talkinghead

Active Member
Aug 15, 2007
363
202
43
Gun control in the U.S. is almost non-existent and, in my opinion, that is because of the constitution.

The second ammendment, the right to bear arms, was written in an era where it was almost a necessity. Let's not forget...they were committing genocide by stealing land from the natives and wiping them out...so guns were needed by almost everyone.

It is in the constitution and will always be there...so strap in.

Tightening up the gun laws may help a bit...but there is more to it than that. Drugs and prostitution are perfect examples.

Since I work on these ideas professionally, I do want to tweak this just a bit. I know this will be pedantic, but we might as well get our constitutional law right. In a sense, nothing is "in" the constitution until it is established by the Supreme Court; is it the court that decides what's in the constitution. The second amendment is enormously complicated, and the so-called "right to bear arms" is widely contested. In fact, both federal and most state laws long held that governments could limit gun ownership in many ways. It was in 2008, the landmark District of Columbia vs Heller, that the Supreme Court expanded gun-ownership rights dramatically, essentially siding with the opponents of gun control, arguing that the second amendment protects an individual's right to own firearms regardless of whether he/she is connected to a militia. Because the Supreme Court can't be "wrong," that is now federal law and is the current reading of the Constitution; in that sense it is "in" the constitution. But it was not "in" the constitution before this case, and the Supreme Court was divided in this case. There were four justices who dissented, essentially saying it's not in the constitution, and many legal scholars feel that the decision is a misreading. (Again, it's the now the law, so for now it is the "correct" reading of the document.) But there are still many ways to enact gun control that are consistent even with this ruling; it would likely not be considered unconstitutional to enact more rigorous background checks, to limit the "loopholes" of unregulated purchases at gun shows, to limit access to purchasers on the no-fly list, etc. And it is also not the case that "it will always be" in the constitution. The constitution is a living document; its meaning changes (as it did in the Heller case), and of course the constitution can be changed. In fact, the wording about the right to bear arms is in an amendment, not in the constitution itself.

Also, I remain baffled by people saying that laws don't do much. All the evidence from other countries suggests exactly the opposite. When gun violence spiked in Norway, Scotland, Australia, etc, new and stricter laws had measurable effects on gun violence. The pro-gun lobby does not dispute this, they simply prioritize the rights of gun owners. That seems like a real argument to me, though I don't agree with it. (They also argue that in the US we're safer with more guns, an argument with little evidence since we've seen a dramatic rise in gun ownership over the last decade and, obviously, no decrease in gun violence.)

Finally, the notion that laws don't work to curb prostitution misses the point, as I explained earlier. Those laws are weak, and amount to shaming. Most of us on this board who hire escorts, in the US and Canada, do so knowing the legal (and health) risks. In fact, one reason that Montreal is so popular is that the laws are generally weaker than in many of the US states. We know the laws, know that they're rarely enforced, and know how to work around them; for example, we don't ask explicit questions over email or in a public setting that suggest the exchange of money for sex. But if those laws were changed, behavior would change. If the law in Montreal made it clear that hiring an escort could result in a 15-year minimum jail sentence, being named on the sexual offenders list, and chemical castration, and if the city government made it clear that all emails and phone conversations were going to be monitored in support of this law, then this board would disappear overnight, as would virtually all the Montreal agencies, Backpages, etc. Would such a law completely eliminate prostitution? No. Would it dramatically alter behavior? Yes, it surely would.

Sorry to lecture. Again, I'm more interested in how we make arguments than in what positions we take. I'm making a case for clarity in argument here, not disagreeing with anyone.
 

ThePenguin

Banned
Dec 5, 2015
29
0
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Gotham
No Penguin I'm not very smart. I went to an engineering school and I spent most of the time studying something useful and marketable.

Good for you Mr Hungry101, I do not pretend being smart neither. I have just the grey cells it requires to carry Fish Mooney's umbrella and to massage her feet.

However, uou make an excellent point. ISIS has killed more Muslims than Christians. But ISIS has done a good job of eradicating the Middle East of all remaining Christians and I'm sure they would kill more if they could get their hands on them. It is just hard to say that ISIS has nothing to do with Islam when their goals are to restore the Islamic caliphate.

Unfortunately, they will keep killing Christians, Kurds and Chiites until somebody stops them. That's what their sponsors from Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey are looking for. By the way, words Muslim and Islamic have different meanings. Islamic usually refers to political Islam and to people with hidden agendas. In my book, people from isis are just criminals and a bunch of bastards.
 

RobinX

Member
Aug 30, 2009
452
0
16
Montreal
It appears that we may be seeing the first glimmer of hope and common sense in changing America's gun laws:

Connecticut to become the first U.S. state to ban the sale of guns to people on government watch lists : http://www.reuters.com/article/us-connecticut-guns-idUSKBN0TT2EM20151210#FoF4CWjGBfJwL6M1.97

Connecticut would become the first U.S. state to ban the sale of guns to people on government watch lists under an executive order that Governor Dannel Malloy, a Democrat, said on Thursday he will sign.

The measure, which Malloy said needs federal approval, would require state police to review whether a potential gun buyer was on the federal no-fly list or on a watchlist for people suspected of ties to terrorism.

It would also revoke existing gun permits issued to people whose names were found on such a list.

The move follows a call by President Barack Obama for Congress to prohibit people on the no-fly list from purchasing firearms in the wake of the last week's massacre in San Bernardino, California, of 14 people by a married couple inspired by Islamic State militants.

"I am taking this commonsense step with this executive order simply because it's the right thing to do," Malloy told reporters in Hartford. "If you can't fly without clearing government watchlists, you shouldn't be able to buy a gun."

State gun-rights groups were quick to criticize the move, which they said they believe runs afoul of the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which protects the right to bear arms.

"I think it is downright dangerous and above and beyond what is constitutionally acceptable," said Scott Wilson, president of the Connecticut Citizens Defense League.

Almost three years ago a gunman killed 26 people, including 20 young children, at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, one of the deadliest mass shootings in U.S. history.

Following that attack, Malloy pushed through one of the strictest gun laws in the United States, banning more than 100 types of military-style rifles and limiting ammunition magazines to 10 bullets.

White House spokesman Josh Earnest welcomed Connecticut's move but said that the Obama administration was determined to press ahead with federal action on guns, noting that people can travel across jurisdictions to circumvent local laws limiting firearm purchases.

"There are necessarily some shortcoming to that approach," Earnest told reporters at press briefing on Thursday. "That is why ... the president's commitment to keeping guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them continues to be a priority of his federal legislative strategy."

The ban would not have stopped the California attack as the shooters were not on any government terrorism watch list.
 
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