Bbfs

[z/m(Ret)]

Are you referring to a certain respected advertising agency on Merb who advertises some of their new ladies as "Debutantes" is in fact insinuating for the secret underage club, that these girls he's hired are minors?

At least that's how I read your post. If not, please do clarify.

You mean Eleganza? First of all, I wrote that "débutantes" generally refers to young women, not necessarily minors. I also wrote that, in some specific cases, "débutantes" literally means "minors" (see Traveller_76's post: this is the kind of agencies I'm thinking about).

Debutante of course isn't always code for minor, but in agencies that do have underaged girls, usually the cheaper agencies that make their revenue off quantity not quality (what I call the JDM style agencies), that's often what it means. That's how I was described and that's how a few others I know were described too. The 'barely 18' description should ring a bell as well. There was always a fear that the calls would be tapped, so maybe it was a way to tell the clients what was on tap without explicitely saying it. This was over a decade ago. Things could have changed, but I really doubt it.

I don't know if Eleganza hires minors or not, probably not given the high visibility this agency enjoys. Regardless, Eleganza clearly targets a specific market by emphasizing that their girls are "young" or, as pornographers would say, "barely legal". Check Eleganza's website, the word "débutante" is emphasized in red letters, why?

If you advertise your business, would you accentuate you employees' lack of experience? "Let our inexperienced staff help you...", etc.. You wouldn't unless the word "inexperienced" is coded in a way that only initiated members of a specific audience would understand. The same reasoning applies to escort agencies who are stating high and loud that their girls are "débutantes".

Now why not just state the girls' age? "19 y/o" says clearly that the girl is young. Why then the need for agencies to mention that she's new to the business? Back in the early 90's, some agencies advertising in the Journal de Montréal used to proceed that way so to identify exclusive subculture members. In this view, "débutante" meant that the girl who is featured as a 18-year old is actually a minor.

Why agencies, like Eleganza, use this exact same marketing ploy? If it's not to showcase minors, as their predecessors did, then it's reasonable to think that it's to sell, to clients with a preference for youngsters, the illusion that the girls they are with might be minors.

 

[UNDFTD]

Check Eleganza's website, the word "débutante" is emphasized in red letters, why?

Now why not just state the girls' age? "19 y/o" says clearly that the girl is young. Why then the need for agencies to mention that she's new to the business?

Perhaps the agency is catering to the discerning hobbyist who is looking for a session with a less-experienced SP. Some would even say that such SPs are less jaded, less mechanical, less indifferent, and less impersonal, which are definitely positives...some would even argue that these positives are characteristically found in debutantes, naturally. For this discerning hobbyist, a debutante or "new to the business" SP would be highly marketable, regardless of age.

Also, Eleganza is a weak example to support your point (though I'm sure, there are agencies that do) as 1) age does not seem to correlate to John's use of the term and 2) it is common knowledge Eleganza favours "new to the business" recruits. For example, Leah at 20yrs is excluded while debutante Stella is listed at 27yrs. In this case 'debutante' does not necessarily imply 'young', I would think John is only sharing as much information as he can in his marketing, particularly because he has been successful in this niche.

Why agencies, like Eleganza, use this exact same marketing ploy? If it's not to showcase minors, as their predecessors did, then it's reasonable to think that it's to sell, to clients with a preference for youngsters, the illusion that the girls they are with might be minors.

Am I the only one that thinks you're reaching here...ploys and illusions? Eleganza uses the term "debutante/new to the business" AND lists the ages. Am I supposed to draw an illusion that debutante Stella at 27 years old can be a minor? If I wanted a minor or wanted the illusion of being with a minor...I'd likely pass on Stella.

Lastly, I've always found it interesting that on Eleganza's website and member board, John always refers to his SP staff as "lady/ladies" never "girl/girls". Again, if the business model were to market minors or the illusion of minors...I doubt this would be the case.

Move on to another example, this one is a little shady.

 

[z/m(Ret)]

I really don't think most 'debutantes' are minors. I think most of the time it means 'never was an escort before' or 'very young' and isn't code for 'minor', unless you're calling those agencies I mentionned before.

Interestingly, "inexperienced", "very young" and, in the specific cases that were mentioned, "minors", are all showcased with the same word, "débutantes" and with the same emphasis (bold or capitalized, sometimes coloured, letters). The same thing with porn, 18 and 19 y/o with or without prior experience of the business as well as minors are labelled "débutantes". The semantic confusion provides ill-intentioned pornographers and agency operators with a convenient screen.

But lets not kid ourselves: JDM agencies aren't the only ones that have minors on staff. If the last girl in the world you'd like to meet as an escort is a minor, you should stay away from the 'debutante' description period, or the 'barely 18', or '18', or even '19', as no agency, aside from VIP-only juvenile prostitution rings, will ever tell you they have minors on staff and in any case, sometimes even they don't know. If on the other hand they do know, they'll tell you she's really young or a 'debutante' as that word CAN sometimes imply. I know for a fact it was code in my first agency. I don't know anything about Eleganza and won't speculate on their use of the word except to say you're more likely to get a minor by picking their 'debutante' girls than if you avoid them-- in all agencies.

Eleganza's website provides a definition of the word: "new to the business". People at Eleganza are certainly aware of the different meanings otherwise why would they bother to define it?

 

[z/m(Ret)]

Yes, debutantes are alot more easily convinced to provide certain services to the discerning gentlemen who know they won't get those services from the older, been-around, not-so-naïve, escorts

BBFS is one of them.

And "greek" is another one. Six of the eight Eleganza girls who "speak Greek", are "débutantes" as well and one is 19 y/o (Sofia). Only Angelic is advertised at 25 y/o.

 

[chowhound]

I don't believe much of what is being posted in this thread. Never seen bbfs being marketed. I know what goes on in my room. I'm not too worried about what consenting adults are working out among themselves.

I also feel that the accusations regarding jdm are not credible. I don't recall jdm ever advertising "debutantes" (not even a website for that agency). JDM is likely to tell someone they are sending a 21 year old, when the girl looks to be closer to 30. I'm not completely sure what is going on with this thread, but I'm not buying it.

 

[Big Daddy Cool]

Speaking of Eleganza, I'm really atracted to the following ladies from there:
1- Vanessa, 19yrs, black hair
2- Nadya, 30yrs, dark brown hair
3- April, 19yrs, black hair
4- Alyssa, 18yrs, black hair
5- Stella, 27yrs, black hair
6- Lilly, 20yrs, black hair

My point is that there is almost double the amount of dark hair woman than light hair woman which begs the question id clints like my self have influenced the landscape here a bit since I'm sure there are others like me who love dark hair women.

And yes I also noticed that "extreamly open minded" is a common theme, but since we don't know what that nessarly intails, i can't say.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I believe there is some truth in what ZM has posted (and believes), but looking at what T76 has posted above, the fact some agencies use or have used 'code words' possibly has quite a bit of truth involved also, but in my opinion only with a few agencies known to peddle underaged prostitutes to pedophiles. Anyone remember "Tom", the guy who used to run an operation named First Time about 4-5 years ago? He was also known under other names such as "Simon" and "Daniel" at agencies (if you want to call them that) prior to First Time. His expertise back in those days was to find underaged girls & get them to prostitute themselves to the pedophiliac community he used to cater to. He even had underaged girls working for him at FT, and some later became somewhat popular. This is why he was busted for juvenile prostitution a couple of years ago & went to jail for it (along with a couple of other scumbags). Most of the girls who worked for him at one point had to testify in court against him. One girl who used to work for him (she was 18-19 at the time) once told me a story about him sending this girl to a young man who still lived with his mother. The young guy had refused his offer since he mother was still at home when the creep called. The creep still showed up unnannounced at the young man's residence (with his mother nearby) with the underaged girl standing next to him. I was told that this particular girl was around 15 or 16 at the time & looked even younger! Of course, the young guy told the creep to leave him the fuck alone.

What i'm saying is that people who called this creep back then had a fairly good idea what kind of 'merchandise' he could provide them. Of course, i'm referring to the pre-First Time days. As far as i know, most of the young women he employed back in the FT days were of age (but barely!).

 

[Doc Holliday]

BBFS is a reality, as well as , CIM, and all that other stuff you can get on the menu. Its not everybody whos doing it, and I dont think that if one girl out of then does it in an agency, she will tell others or brag about it. As long as girls are going to provide that kind of extra, there will be people asking for it. As long as clients are going to offer extra money for BBFS, there will be SPs doing it.

What your basically saying is that ``Money Talks``. Last night, i decided to do some personal research on the matter & called up a few of my contacts. These contacts are sps that have been in the business for a certain number of years (at least 5+) & others have since retired. I told them about this very interesting thread that was going on & i asked them bluntly: ``Have you ever been proposed for BBFS during your career?`` To my surprise, all of them said yes. Some of them mentionned that they amounts of money offered to them was astronomical ($1000 and up) at times. None of them ever accepted the offers, and i have no reason to doubt their honesty. One girl even told one of the persons who had propositionned her that she wouldn`t even say yes to it even if he offered $100 000. She told him that her life & personal health is a lot more important to her than a large amount of money. And again, i was once again surprised at how common this has been over the years. I mean, ALL OF THEM had been propositionned for BBFS at least once in their careers!

One other thing: I`ve been involved with this business for 7+ years & as far as i know, the use of condoms have always been the norm. Was there ever a time where it was up to the client/sp on whether or not condoms had to be used? How about in the 70`s & 80`s prior to the AIDS epidemic....did condoms always have to be used?

 

[perfectsilence]

What your basically saying is that "Money Talks". Last night, i decided to do some personal research on the matter & called up a few of my contacts. These contacts are sps that have been in the business for a certain number of years (at least 5+) & others have since retired. I told them about this very interesting thread that was going on & i asked them bluntly: "Have you ever been proposed for BBFS during your career?"


why would any of them admit ever doing bbfs? It's not something people would talk about. how many guys would turn down bbfs if it's initiated by the sp?

 

[Big Daddy Cool]

perfectsilence:
You asked the perfect question. Another question would be how many clients have ever had a nymphomanic SP get on top, start kissing and caressing your body and then without even asking decides to put it in bareback? I doubt this happens to more experinced hobbiests, but how many had it happened when they were still fresh to the hobby and still nieve enough to beleive that an incall escort wouldn't behave this way because they all must be university students making money for tuition?

Beleive it or not, some SPs are worse than the clients when it comes to careless behavior.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Why would any of them admit ever doing bbfs? It's not something people would talk about. how many guys would turn down bbfs if it's initiated by the sp?

I agree with your first sentence.....most of them likely wouldn't admit to bbfs & its probably something they want to forget. In regards to your question of how many guys would turn down bbfs if its initiated by the sp? Sadly, not enough.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Beleive it or not, some SPs are worse than the clients when it comes to careless behavior.

I believe it! I've once met someone who would see sps (both on the job & in private) and i was astonished at how many of them he's had bbfs with. "How do you do it?", i asked. He'd reply that believe it or not, most of the time it was initiated by them & they simply slipped it in during & after foreplay, no questions asked. "Aren't you afraid of catching anything? Don't you realize that if they've done it with you, they've likely done it with other guys they've trusted?", i'd ask. "Of course i do. However, when i'm in the heat-of-the-moment, sometimes my little head does the talking & i only start realizing once the deed is done that maybe this wasn't a good idea", he'd reply.

Little anecdote: Back in the days when i'd see some LFMJ girls (2002-2003) among many other agencies, there was one particular girl i had been told to avoid, even though it seemed she was quite popular at the time & was getting rave reviews. One of my buddies had told me that one of the other girls from the agency had warned him not to see this particular girl if he didn't want to catch anything. This girl had a reputation to often being ill & not being able to work during that time since (as the girl told him) she didn't always use protection during FS. "Thank God for backchanneling!"

 

[Big Daddy Cool]

Doc:
That's exactly my point. It's not always the client, but the SP who puts it in without warning or questions. I can't speak for all hobbiests, but i find this to happen most often with new hobbiests as they are simply not aware of the little tricks like getting the condom out ahead of time, keeping close tabs of where her body is moving and etc.

Another thing that happens is that once it's in the idea of "this is not what I wanted but it's too late now so I might as well enjoy it" takes over in the heat of the moment especially if you are really attacted to the woman.

This is why it's best to scan the room and lok for places to put a condom so that it's constantly there not just as a reminder to you, but to her as well.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I can say this and i make no if's and's or buts about it. Not only would i turn it down if it was initiated by the sp but i would not allow it if she paid me. As a matter of fact if she slipped it in it wouldn't be in for long as i would in a very nice way be showing her the door. Anybody who does this is a fool, plain and simple.

I'm in agreement with this on this issue, but i believe that folks like me & you are in the minority. I hope i'm proven wrong.

 

[Ben Dover]

I have never and will never go there with an SP -- but as mentioned by others, I have felt that it was on the table on multiple occaisions when an SP was caught up in "the heat of the moment"... I have never been offered bbfs, but there have been a few times where I felt like it was just going to happen if I didn't take the initiative to put on a jimmy-hat... Having the condom out ahead of time is definitely the way to go and it makes it clear to her that you are planning to use it.

In non-SP situations (ie: real-life, normal situations), I have found this much much more difficult. In my school days there were many late-night occaisions when making out with a beautiful girl would get very intense, very fast. Things would progrees to a BJ or 69 and before I knew it, she was lowering herself down on me, manipulating my penis to rub against her (uncovered), or just begging to be fucked "right now".... Now, when you are trying to put the moves on a "regular" girl, having a condom out on the bedstand or in your hand when you walk in the door is not a very sauve move... Most times I got the condom out in time, but there were a few occaisions when (blame it on drinks, or drugs, or just passion or whatever) that didn't happen. It was never my intention -- always the doing of the horny girl! In fact one such girl (from Norway if I remember correctly -- and I do practically raped me while I was sleeping -- more like passed out-- and I woke up with my uncovered member inside her as she rode me with a huge smile on her face... I always felt really bad and scared after those occaisions, but I was lucky and never caught anything (as confirmed by tests).

I guess my point is that we need to be vigilant about protecting ourselves. Girls are human beings too and sometime they are not too smart, or they give into their desires the same as anyone else...

In terms of people who go looking for bbfs, or SPs who offer it for money, these are people that I would stay clear of at all costs. If any SP ever offers you bbfs for $$ you should post it here so that those of us who care can steer away...

BD

 

[Big Daddy Cool]

If you go bare back all the way, then this might happen to you:

http://www.drippingcreampies.com/nats/?nats=MTk3NTM1OjY6Mw,0,0,0,0

Please keep this in mind.

 

[Love big tits]

I can't believe how long this thread has been going on about this.

To the BBFS people are you fricking nuts

They shoot people in some country for that, don't they?

Just an other example of stupidity to its utmost level

 

[hotbabe]

speaking of murder!

This is a pm I received here on merb, now if you want to be dishonest, sneaky ,and cheat on you wife or significant other Im no one to judge your reasons why and Im sure you all may have many , for those who have someone in their life .
but this takes the cake and again rears its ugly head as to how members on this board and many others feel they are correct in their assumptions as to the fact that someone out there is actually willing to give service without protection ,
furthurmore I m sure there are a few others out their as well as sp s who tolerate this as well as allow such activities, im appauled and disgusted!

hence the whole "you want gfe," and yet you dont want to pay for this exclusive service of discrepancy and security .

yet when an sp becomes sick you bash her , not realizing that some john probably made it very inticing for her .

if.... she is having trouble making ends meet , Which Thank god Im not , and there is no amount of money that would allow me to afford the luxury of putting myself and others in danger.

the said sp would be more likely to say yes, and he has done this before of course, and leaves her with luggage, which in turn she leaves to you ,because you want gfe, and at the rate you are willing to pay , she must see more men.

again not the case for me, as I do have several other things I do aside from sp ing , and do not rely on this as my sole income, hence I choose who and when and if, but some are not so privlaged and cannot say no when the bills need to be paid , I at least HAVE THE CHOICE.

well think twice about this scenario gents, and when push comes to shove you may want to add blame to members like below , as well as maybe someone you know who tries to lower rates on quality services and such.

his handle has been removed, as I will not devulge that info at this time but you know who you are and I SINCERLY hope you understand why this needed to be brought to the forfront.>>>>>>


EDIT:
Forbidden Activities:

viii) Disclosing private communications. PMs are to remain PRIVATE between the 2 parties, and not disclosed without the consent of the sender. PMs may be forwarded and disclosed to Moderators if they contain anything offensive or require the attention of Moderators.


***PM removed. Hotbabe, take this as a warning***M5

 

[hotbabe]

hotbabe
hotbabe


Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: montreal
Posts: 33
the question we need to ask now is how many other sp, s has he e mailed or pmd here and how many hobbyists are guilty of these practices of unsafe sex. this was my response to his pm below


Hotbabe
registered user.

no,no , no.!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if youre allergic to latex thats possible but the non latex cindons are not a problem , it it physically immpossible to be allergic to those. anyone who says yes to your request is a tranp and liar and should not be trusted as well as you will! catch something and will deserve everythiing you get , for the attempt. there is no price for my integrity and safety so stop the crap of the allergy excuse. if your going to cheat on your wife , at least have the decentcy to protect her and yourself. dont you have any respect , decentcy, and common sense. go shopping and invest the time ,and money in protection, it will be worth the few bucks ,instead of a lifetime , of misery. as well any sp who is a professional always comes fully eqiupped and prepared .so there is NO excuse , for this behavior unless you just dont give a damn!


sorry, but no !


hotbabe.

 

[hotbabe]

unfortunately I do

Unfortunately I do think SOME sps would cave in for the extra cash . I HOWEVER DONT AND NEVER WOULD! THAT IS NOT UP FOR NEGOTIATION AND IS A DROP DEAD DEAL BREAKER FOR ME , LITERALLY!

THE SAD FACT IS MANY WOMAN IN THIS PROFESSION ONLY HAVE THIS FOR INCOME .
They are put in a position where they cant say no to the extra 100$ because they havent had a call all week and they need to pay the rent or so on.
they isolate themselves and have no external data on which they can rely and here comes JOHN to save the day !

ITS SAD AND I SEE IT ALL THE TIME , I ve been asked before and declined always! many were willing to pay me double and still . no!
why would I when I can dance and make just as much money if not more ,for doing less and no risk.

I also have business on the side , but I have set myself up in such a way where I dont need to rely on this , and be a victim of the cicumstances, many have not.

as hobbyist who I m sure have been out there you know the sp service is a valuable one . to say the least enjoyable. so why would you not want to pay for you enjoyment , yes granted misery is FREE! as is loneliness isolation and stress.
I WOULD PAY FOR MY HAPPINESS ANY DAY , BEFORE I SWALLOW MISERY FOR FREE, but thats me !