CBC News article: "Montreal residents fight prostitution online"

[RobinX]

The following article appears on the CBC News website:

Montreal residents fight prostitution online
Last Updated: Tuesday, December 8, 2009 | 1:30 PM ET
CBC News
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2009/12/08/montreal-prostitutes-hochelaga-maisonneuve.html

Residents in Montreal's Hochelaga-Maisonneuve district have launched an online group to fight street prostitution.
Residents are taking pictures of sex workers in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve and posting them on Facebook.Residents are taking pictures of sex workers in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve and posting them on Facebook. (Facebook)

As of Tuesday, some 377 people, mostly residents in the southeast borough, had joined a group on the social networking site Facebook, where people discuss drug use and public sex they've witnessed in the area.

The Facebook group, called "Prostitution en plein jour" also features photos of prostitutes who work in the neighbourhood south of the Olympic Stadium.

Sex-trade workers have walked the streets in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve for years, says resident Frédéric Leroux, but the situation has worsened in recent months. "On the same corner, I saw a kid, waiting for a school bus, and I saw a prostitute, waiting for a client," said Leroux, who has three children.

Police are doing little to solve the problem, and that's why fed-up residents turned to the internet to take action, Leroux contends.

He said he doesn't blame the prostitutes, but rather clients, or johns, who drive the demand.

Advocates who work with prostitutes say the Facebook page is the wrong approach to solving an age-old problem.

"I think it's insane," said Émilie Laliberté, a former sex-trade worker who now does outreach for STELLA, a Montreal organization that supports people who sell sex on the streets. "It's totally [disrespectful.]"

Sex-trade workers are driven to the streets because current laws don't allow them to work anywhere else, and they "don't have the right of protection and security as any other citizen," Laliberté said.

"The fact that our work is being criminalized puts us at risk to suffer violence any time, anywhere."

Decriminalizing prostitution would allow sex trade workers to practise their trade in clean, safe areas behind closed doors, Laliberté added.

She suggested residents talk to local prostitutes about their concerns.

"If you bring your kid to the school, and the sex worker is there during the morning, you can just ask her maybe she can go to a corner more far away," she suggested. "The key is communication. It's not by bashing sex workers online that they're gonna get what they want."

 

[RobinX]

Same story - different angle - in "24 Heures"

The same story appeared in "24 Heures" but from a different angle, focusing on a statement by the burough mayor to call in the police if the citizens actions do not have the desired impact:

The mayor may take action against prostitution
http://fr.canoe.ca/infos/quebeccanada/archives/2009/12/20091207-162233.html

What is interesting is that in the morning printed edition of 24 Heures, the first paragraph of the story states (the English translation is mine):

Given the growing concern of the people of his district in regards to the presence of prostitutes, the new mayor of Mercier-Hochelaga-Maisonneuve, Réal Ménard, promises to use police repression, if the mediation by community agencies does not work.

When I checked the story online tonight, the mention of police repression had been removed, and the line had been changed to:

The new mayor of Mercier-Hochelaga-Maisonneuve, Réal Ménard, promises to call in the police if ever mediation with community agencies do not work.

Also, if one reads the rest of the story, apparently the mayor's idea of "mediation by community agencies" includes posting pictures of prostitutes online.

 

[YouVantOption]

Police are doing little to solve the problem, and that's why fed-up residents turned to the internet to take action, Leroux contends.

He said he doesn't blame the prostitutes, but rather clients, or johns, who drive the demand.

I wonder why aren't they taking pictures of the Tricks and putting them online?

Advocates who work with prostitutes say the Facebook page is the wrong approach to solving an age-old problem.

"I think it's insane," said Émilie Laliberté, a former sex-trade worker who now does outreach for STELLA, a Montreal organization that supports people who sell sex on the streets. "It's totally [disrespectful.]"

Sex-trade workers are driven to the streets because current laws don't allow them to work anywhere else, and they "don't have the right of protection and security as any other citizen," Laliberté said.

"The fact that our work is being criminalized puts us at risk to suffer violence any time, anywhere."

Ms. Laliberté does not understand the law. it is procuring in public that is illegal. This means prostitutes are driven to agencies, not the streets.

If you bring your kid to the school, and the sex worker is there during the morning, you can just ask her maybe she can go to a corner more far away

Yeah that would be a great approach, I'm certain it would be met with a friendly smile and immediate compliance with the request. How about Stella do their job and help communicate some sensitivity to these hookers that they stay away from school kids? It amazes me that anyone would even have to ask.

 

[eastender]

Background

The following article appears on the CBC News website:

Montreal residents fight prostitution online
Last Updated: Tuesday, December 8, 2009 | 1:30 PM ET
CBC News
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2009/12/08/montreal-prostitutes-hochelaga-maisonneuve.html

Residents in Montreal's Hochelaga-Maisonneuve district have launched an online group to fight street prostitution.
Residents are taking pictures of sex workers in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve and posting them on Facebook.Residents are taking pictures of sex workers in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve and posting them on Facebook. (Facebook)

As of Tuesday, some 377 people, mostly residents in the southeast borough, had joined a group on the social networking site Facebook, where people discuss drug use and public sex they've witnessed in the area.

The Facebook group, called "Prostitution en plein jour" also features photos of prostitutes who work in the neighbourhood south of the Olympic Stadium.

Sex-trade workers have walked the streets in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve for years, says resident Frédéric Leroux, but the situation has worsened in recent months. "On the same corner, I saw a kid, waiting for a school bus, and I saw a prostitute, waiting for a client," said Leroux, who has three children.

Police are doing little to solve the problem, and that's why fed-up residents turned to the internet to take action, Leroux contends.

He said he doesn't blame the prostitutes, but rather clients, or johns, who drive the demand.

Advocates who work with prostitutes say the Facebook page is the wrong approach to solving an age-old problem.

"I think it's insane," said Émilie Laliberté, a former sex-trade worker who now does outreach for STELLA, a Montreal organization that supports people who sell sex on the streets. "It's totally [disrespectful.]"

Sex-trade workers are driven to the streets because current laws don't allow them to work anywhere else, and they "don't have the right of protection and security as any other citizen," Laliberté said.

"The fact that our work is being criminalized puts us at risk to suffer violence any time, anywhere."

Decriminalizing prostitution would allow sex trade workers to practise their trade in clean, safe areas behind closed doors, Laliberté added.

She suggested residents talk to local prostitutes about their concerns.

"If you bring your kid to the school, and the sex worker is there during the morning, you can just ask her maybe she can go to a corner more far away," she suggested. "The key is communication. It's not by bashing sex workers online that they're gonna get what they want."

The seminal story appeared in the JDM a day previous to 24 Heures.

From the mid eighties well into the mid nineties I worked security for a variety of community organizations in Hochelaga / Maisonneuve / Ville Marie. The street prostitution fueled by drugs was an issue at the time. Previously the "bar girls" were the issues going back into the sixties when I was playing football at Champetre Park and the history of prostitution in the area dates back more than a century - the area is just off the docks.

Presently the main problem stems from the growth of massage parlours on Ste Catherine,
north side between Moreau(just after the tracks) and Viau, mainly Davidson and Pie IX.
Idea being that sex workers could work inside in a controlled, safe environment with a mainstream business structure. This works well in theory but creates a new problem of the drug fueled SWs sniping for customers in the proximity of the massage parlours. This problem is then compounded by the fact that massage parlour patrons tend to visit the establishments on the way to and from work or during the lunch hour, coinciding with grade school kids going to and from school plus their lunch hour.

The same situation was addressed by previous administrations when it arose in other parts of the Hochelaga / Maisonneuve / Ville Marie districts. Usually it involves cleaning up some of the notorious drug dens - one present one is referred to in the JDM article and gentrification.

 

[eastender]

Actually

I wonder why aren't they taking pictures of the Tricks and putting them online?



Ms. Laliberté does not understand the law. it is procuring in public that is illegal. This means prostitutes are driven to agencies, not the streets.



Yeah that would be a great approach, I'm certain it would be met with a friendly smile and immediate compliance with the request. How about Stella do their job and help communicate some sensitivity to these hookers that they stay away from school kids? It amazes me that anyone would even have to ask.

Your misrepresentation and ignorance of the Hochelaga / Maisonneuve / Ville Marie area is quite startling.

Using / dealing drugs is also illegal which is the root of the problem, compounded by the fact that at a certain point the drug dependent individual - the SW and the customer are beyond caring about the any laws or vapid debates about them.

Having worked security in the area(see previous post), outreach is the the best approach.
Granted you need street credentials and community support but it does produce results.
Talking to the SWs, providing solutions to their concerns, showing a sense of community has many benefits.

Stella has its pluses and minuses. They contribute a voice to the overall media focus on a problem but are not in a position to do the everyday community work that is required. Collectively the various community organizations in the area in questions have qualified, experienced staff but lack the funding.

 

[YouVantOption]

Originally Posted by YouVantOption
I wonder why aren't they taking pictures of the Tricks and putting them online?



Ms. Laliberté does not understand the law. it is procuring in public that is illegal. This means prostitutes are driven to agencies, not the streets.



Yeah that would be a great approach, I'm certain it would be met with a friendly smile and immediate compliance with the request. How about Stella do their job and help communicate some sensitivity to these hookers that they stay away from school kids? It amazes me that anyone would even have to ask.

Your misrepresentation and ignorance of the Hochelaga / Maisonneuve / Ville Marie area is quite startling.

And your inability to read, and truly epic ability to foist personal agenda bullshit onto what I wrote is astounding.

Using / dealing drugs is also illegal which is the root of the problem,

You are contending that all street prostitutes in HM are drug addicts?

Then how, pray tell, is it in any way sane for a parent to politely approach a strung out hooker and ask her to move her shit up the street away from the school-kids?

 

[eastender]

Reality

And your inability to read, and truly epic ability to foist personal agenda bullshit onto what I wrote is astounding.



You are contending that all street prostitutes in HM are drug addicts?

Then how, pray tell, is it in any way sane for a parent to politely approach a strung out hooker and ask her to move her shit up the street away from the school-kids?

Considering that some of the parents, community activists, etc have been down that road they are quite capable of assessing the situation. Evidenced by their activities to date. Also some of the parents, given their affiliations, are very effective in this regard.

Certainly they have a better grasp of it than someone living miles away with no knowledge of the area who relies on half-baked media accounts.

 

[YouVantOption]

Considering that some of the parents, community activists, etc have been down that road they are quite capable of assessing the situation. Evidenced by their activities to date. Also some of the parents, given their affiliations, are very effective in this regard.

Certainly they have a better grasp of it than someone living miles away with no knowledge of the area who relies on half-baked media accounts.

Actually, I took the time to read the Facebook group which is open to public scrutiny. Did you? Apparently not if you are saying 'everything is fine, these parents can tell the crackhead to move away from their kids, because they know someone 'affiliated'', presumably because they are one with the HAs. But hey, those people on Facebook are living it, or making up half-baked truths, right?

And you consider it a dig because I wouldn't live in a slum with Hell Angels running around? Thanks, I'll pass, even if it means a little less 'street cred', something about which I could not care less. If you want some real balls yourself, maybe you want to consider Montreal North for your next move. I understand they even try to shoot cops undertaking lawful arrest there.

 

[eastender]

Oh Well...............

Actually, I took the time to read the Facebook group which is open to public scrutiny. Did you? Apparently not if you are saying 'everything is fine, these parents can tell the crackhead to move away from their kids, because they know someone 'affiliated'', presumably because they are one with the HAs. But hey, those people on Facebook are living it, or making up half-baked truths, right?

And you consider it a dig because I wouldn't live in a slum with Hell Angels running around? Thanks, I'll pass, even if it means a little less 'street cred', something about which I could not care less. If you want some real balls yourself, maybe you want to consider Montreal North for your next move. I understand they even try to shoot cops undertaking lawful arrest there.

Read and knew about it before it made the media. No one is saying things are fine but the situation will be handled as it has always been - without your contribution.

You are talking about people who have the courage to live in a neighbourhood including a drug den. People who have a history of surviving dating back to a time before the HAMC.
They will manage very well.

Your understanding of Montreal North seems to be equally deficient. Two police officers assigned to an area inappropriate for their background and make-up produced tragic results. Eventually all sides will under go a healing process and things will move forward, continuing on the path that ensued.

 

[EagerBeaver]

What if one of the "sex workers" who was photographed was actually just a student from Concordia who happened to be high and happened to be in the neighborhood, buying some weed?

What about the privacy rights of the sex workers? Don't they have a right to restrict the use and reproduction of their photographic images?

It sounds like Montreal lawyers might have a field day with this one.

 

[eastender]

Quaint..................

What if one of the "sex workers" who was photographed was actually just a student from Concordia who happened to be high and happened to be in the neighborhood, buying some weed?

What about the privacy rights of the sex workers? Don't they have a right to restrict the use and reproduction of their photographic images?

It sounds like Montreal lawyers might have a field day with this one.

EB,

Perhaps you are being clever or you know more than you are letting on.

The area is slowly gentrifying and it does draw student tenants from UQAM, McGill and Concordia because of the relatively inexpensive rents but they are found somewhat north of the area in question closer to the subway stations.

The privacy issue should not be downplayed and is an vital consideration. Key point may be that the SWs make the choice to work the public streets as opposed to the massage parlours where they would not be photographed.

 

[naughtylady]

I wonder why aren't they taking pictures of the Tricks and putting them online?



Ms. Laliberté does not understand the law. it is procuring in public that is illegal. This means prostitutes are driven to agencies, not the streets.



Yeah that would be a great approach, I'm certain it would be met with a friendly smile and immediate compliance with the request. How about Stella do their job and help communicate some sensitivity to these hookers that they stay away from school kids? It amazes me that anyone would even have to ask.

Agencies are not a viable option for many women.

Emily Laliberté understands the law better than either you or I do.

Street work is last resort prostitution. It is for when you need cash NOW. Working for an agency does not guarantee income every shift you work. I remember when I worked for agencies sometimes there would be 3-4 girls in the car and 12 or 2 calls on an 8 hour shift!

Most SW are addicts who are working to get money for their drugs so that they wont get sick. They cannot afford to go a day without pay. Many are addicted to drugs where they need to be institutionalized and detoxed in order to stop. Depending on the drug, or drugs, withdrawal symptoms can be severe and can cause heart-attacks and/or convulsions, vomiting with diarrhea and fever, extreme pain, and more.

Waiting lists to get into rehab can be weeks or even months long. So telling them to just quit is not a viable option. ... and remember nobody ever planned on becoming and alcoholic or drug addict. Nobody ever takes their first drink and says to themselves,"I am going to become an alcoholic."

Stella does have outreach workers that go into the streets to talk directly with street girls and they do indeed suggest to the girls that they change corners when they are in an inappropriate area. However they do not have workers on the streets 24/7. They usually have do outreach at night when there are more girls in the streets working than in the morning before school. Stella in a non-profit community organization that is dependent upon donations. If they had a bigger budget they would would be open longer hours as it is they only open their office at 11 AM. With a bigger budget they would be able to do a lot more.

Street prostitution is a complicated problem and there are no simple solutions.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[YouVantOption]

Emily Laliberté understands the law better than either you or I do.

Then why is every statement quoted about the law incorrect?

 

[YouVantOption]

What if one of the "sex workers" who was photographed was actually just a student from Concordia who happened to be high and happened to be in the neighborhood, buying some weed?

What about the privacy rights of the sex workers? Don't they have a right to restrict the use and reproduction of their photographic images?

It sounds like Montreal lawyers might have a field day with this one.

The law would say different, or may, since this is for journalistic purposes, and is also of someone engaged in an illegal act.

On the other hand, the recent changes (like yesterday) were prompted by Canadian law, and this would seem to violate the spirit of that agreement. People don't need lawyers to file under PIPEDA here, although crackheads are not likely to be filing on their own.

 

[YouVantOption]

Most SW are addicts who are working to get money for their drugs so that they wont get sick. They cannot afford to go a day without pay. Many are addicted to drugs where they need to be institutionalized and detoxed in order to stop. Depending on the drug, or drugs, withdrawal symptoms can be severe and can cause heart-attacks and/or convulsions, vomiting with diarrhea and fever, extreme pain, and more.

Ok, so some are addicted to smack, or pills. But where is Mr. East-ender rushing to tell us all about this ignorant, dishonourable typification of east-end prostitutes? Because, as you so rightly note ... 'many'. but not all. let's see if he pipes up with a correct answer for the balance of the women in this equation.

... and remember nobody ever planned on becoming and alcoholic or drug addict. Nobody ever takes their first drink and says to themselves,"I am going to become an alcoholic."

Or a prostitute.

 

[eastender]

Exceptions

Ok, so some are addicted to smack, or pills. But where is Mr. East-ender rushing to tell us all about this ignorant, dishonourable typification of east-end prostitutes? Because, as you so rightly note ... 'many'. but not all. let's see if he pipes up with a correct answer for the balance of the women in this equation.



Or a prostitute.

The seminal JDM story was centered around a drug den, photo of the building was included. Ergo the drug connection. You have the end of month part time SW who work a few days to make ends meet and for the most part are not substance abusers however they stay away from the drug den areas, working the area well east of Pie IX, 3-4 blocks before Viau. These SWs are not transient.

BTW, YVO in his typical imploding fashion wishes to divert west end problems to other parts of Montreal - H/M/VM and Montreal North to name a few, conveniently omitting that similar problems exist in the proximity of his back yard. The Montreal North tragedy is very similar to the shooting of Anthony Griffin in NDG(Walkley) by a Montreal police officer, Alan Gossett app twenty years ago. Walkley twenty years ago was worse than the present situation in other parts of Montreal. Also ignoring other similar tragedies on Blvd St.Laurent above Ontario and near the financial district.

You also have/had street prostitution in various parts of lower NDG and near the Cote St. Luc border. Perhaps YVO can enlighten us on the charms of the west end instead of trying to sweep them under the first convenient rug by pointing fingers and raising issues about other parts of Montreal.

 

[Mod 11]

Guys, let's not turn this into another cock fight, would ya? Attacks on anybody by anybody will result in suspension.

 

[Ariane Valmont]

Then why is every statement quoted about the law incorrect?

Probably because you misinterpret what she says.

I have spoken with Émilie on several occasions and she is very well informed.

 

[Porter]

On the other hand, the recent changes (like yesterday) were prompted by Canadian law, and this would seem to violate the spirit of that agreement. People don't need lawyers to file under PIPEDA here, although crackheads are not likely to be filing on their own.

Before throwing stones, I would suggest to take your weapon offline and give it a rest, because its not working right for you.


Here is a brief description of PIPEDA!!

The Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act (abbreviated PIPEDA or PIPED Act) is a Canadian law relating to data privacy. It governs how private-sector organizations collect, use and disclose personal information in the course of commercial business. In addition, the Act contains various provisions to facilitate the use of electronic documents. PIPEDA was passed in the late 1990s to promote consumer trust in electronic commerce. The act was also intended to reassure the European Union that the Canadian privacy law was adequate to protect the personal information of European citizens.

 

[Merlot]

What if one of the "sex workers" who was photographed was actually just a student from Concordia who happened to be high and happened to be in the neighborhood, buying some weed?

What about the privacy rights of the sex workers? Don't they have a right to restrict the use and reproduction of their photographic images?

It sounds like Montreal lawyers might have a field day with this one.

Hello all,

This tactic does not seem quite legal...to say the least? Aren't the privacy rights of alleged sex workers equal to that of anyone else? Doesn't someone have to be convicted of a crime in Canada/Quebec before their photo can be published under a criminal or "shady" heading. And what of the damage to reputation that could be done to innocents by righteous photo-happy zealots who could target anyone they think is suspicious? Imagine another group of photo-happy zealots going after pedophiles or sexual perverts and seeing your picture on Facebook under one of those labels by mistake. I don't know Canadian law on this subject, but I get the feeling this tactic has the making of a mighty fine lawsuit when images of those who have been convicted of nothing are published under such terms.

ish,

Merlot