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COVID's vaccine, by whom, when, effective? all around the vaccine

No_Church_InThe_Wild

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May 31, 2014
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@Like_It_Hot ... I’m not in a rush so I’m waiting to see ... they keep flip flopping on data and studies and next week or month we might hear different things about the effectiveness and benefits of the vaccines
Don’t know quite what to tell you but at the moment I’m going by STN’s credible post #162 on this same thread ...
 

Like_It_Hot

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If you are under 70 with no preconditions (heart stroke, diabetis, arterial hypertension, etc...) you can surely hold the line, specially if you follow CDC recommandation. Anyway, in this case, you would be in the last ones that the vaccine would be offered. But if you are 90, even in a relative good health, chances are that you better take the vaccine. The case to vaccinate prisoners is that they live in promiscuity and if they get the disease all people working there are at high risk to be contaminated and spread the virus in their families and their community. It's easy to make joke about prisoners being vaccinated first but thinking 2 seconds about the consequences of not doing it shows it is plenty of sens. Too much peoples on this forum have a bizarre attitude defying common sense. As for the credibility of STN, I let it to your judgement.
 

Zaeballo

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Jun 1, 2020
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The case to vaccinate prisoners is that they live in promiscuity and if they get the disease all people working there are at high risk to be contaminated and spread the virus in their families and their community. It's easy to make joke about prisoners being vaccinated first but thinking 2 seconds about the consequences of not doing it shows it is plenty of sens. Too much peoples on this forum have a bizarre attitude defying common sense.
Could not agree with you more, especially with the part I highlighted. And the rest is spot on too. Prisoners, whether or not they live in promiscuity, are crème de la crème of our society, and their vaccination should be a topmost priority. It is immoral and downright obscene to argue otherwise.
 
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hungry101

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Oct 29, 2007
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If you are under 70 with no preconditions (heart stroke, diabetis, arterial hypertension, etc...) you can surely hold the line, specially if you follow CDC recommandation. Anyway, in this case, you would be in the last ones that the vaccine would be offered. But if you are 90, even in a relative good health, chances are that you better take the vaccine. The case to vaccinate prisoners is that they live in promiscuity and if they get the disease all people working there are at high risk to be contaminated and spread the virus in their families and their community. It's easy to make joke about prisoners being vaccinated first but thinking 2 seconds about the consequences of not doing it shows it is plenty of sens. Too much peoples on this forum have a bizarre attitude defying common sense. As for the credibility of STN, I let it to your judgement.
The murders first, the rapists 2nd, and the thieves third.
 

Fradi

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Apr 9, 2019
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Too much peoples on this forum have a bizarre attitude defying common sense. As for the credibility of STN, I let it to your judgement.
I totally agree with you, as for STN credibility I have always found his posts to be interesting and never sheepish.
Besides that he happens to have an amazing sense of humour too bad it goes over some people’s heads.
 

CaptRenault

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Jun 29, 2003
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When in the months ahead you are vaccinated, to whom should you be most thankful for making this possible?

The answer:
  1. Private, profit-seeking corporations including Pfizer, BioNTech, Moderna, AstraZeneca, Novavax and their counterparts?
  2. President Trump’s Operation Warp Speed

Who Made the Vaccine Possible? Not WHO. Pharmaceutical companies and Trump’s Operation Warp Speed deserve the vast bulk of the credit.​

By Graham T. Allison
Dec. 23, 2020
Wall Street Journal.com

im-276501

Doses of the Pfizer BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine are ready to be administered in Redlands, Calif., Dec. 18.​


With the rollout of Covid-19 vaccines, a light has appeared in the darkness. A hard winter lies ahead, but this pandemic will soon be over.
How can this be happening only 10 months after the first Covid death in the U.S., rather than the 10 years it took to develop a vaccine for measles? Nine months ago, Anthony Fauci stated unambiguously: “It will take at least a year and a half to have a vaccine we can use.” The public-health community dismissed that as a fantasy. A co-inventor of the rotavirus vaccine, Paul Offit, noted: “When Dr. Fauci said 12 to 18 months, I thought that was ridiculously optimistic.” A New York Times vaccine timeline went further, declaring: “The grim truth behind this rosy forecast is that a vaccine probably won’t arrive any time soon.”

Those naysayers have been proved wrong and it’s worth considering why. Let me invite the reader to answer a short quiz. When in the months ahead you are vaccinated, to whom should you be most thankful for making this possible?

• The initiative forwarded by the United Nations, Group of 20, World Health Organization and COVAX—an affiliate of WHO and the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations—that called for “a ‘people’s vaccine’ available and affordable for everyone, everywhere,” in the words of U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres ?

• Foundations and donors, including the consortium led by the Gates Foundation that established the CEPI (the “alliance to finance and coordinate the development of new vaccines”) at Davos, Switzerland, in 2017?
• Leaders of federal agencies, including the directors of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Food and Drug Administration, and National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, the health and human services secretary and the assistant secretary for health?
• The hundreds of medical and public health schools, their associated research labs and hospitals, and the tens of thousands of epidemiologists, virologists and other experts who have been talking endlessly about this plague?
• President Trump’s Operation Warp Speed, led by Moncef Slaoui —a controversial former head of vaccine development at the pharmaceutical company GlaxoSmithKline, which has delivered more vaccines than any other company in the world—which gave billions of taxpayer dollars to biotech and pharmaceutical companies to speed vaccine development and manufacture doses in advance in case a vaccine proved effective?
• Private, profit-seeking corporations including Pfizer, BioNTech, Moderna, AstraZeneca, Novavax and their counterparts?

Failure is an orphan; victory has a hundred fathers. In this case, success is certain to have thousands of paternity claimants. Many of those listed above will credibly claim to have contributed. But if this were a court of law allocating liability for damage done by a medicine, rather than a grateful public offering thanks, which of the actors would be held most responsible? Assuming all other claimants had done precisely what they did in this case—except for one—what is the likelihood that vaccines would be available today?

The answer is as clear as it will be uncomfortable to some readers. Had the WHO and Gates Foundation not existed, there would have been little difference in the availability of the vaccine. Had all of the departments and agencies in the U.S. government been on autopilot, this miraculous development would never have happened. This bureaucracy—including the CDC, FDA and HHS—was unable to provide a coronavirus test for several months after South Korea, Singapore and others were conducting extensive testing under their public-health responses.

Universities are rightly claiming to have built the foundations of knowledge without which other researchers couldn’t have sequenced the virus’s genome or developed mRNA delivery systems necessary to Pfizer and Moderna’s vaccines. But holding the pre-Covid base of knowledge constant, these scholarly researchers could have slept through the pandemic and it would have made little difference.

There are clearly only two primary causes behind the Covid-19 vaccine. The first was the capitalist system, which facilitated competition between private, profit-seeking biotech and pharmaceutical companies to produce a lifesaving product.

Like charities, universities, government agencies and pretty much everyone else, these organizations want to do good. But companies like Germany-based BioNTech, its Boston-based competitor Moderna, and the pharmaceutical giant Pfizer have also been racing for a pot of gold at the end of this rainbow. There would be no Covid-19 vaccine today had there been no venture capitalists prepared to invest before a product or profit was visible, no corporate leadership willing to double down with the companies’ own money in the spring to fund a crash effort to produce a vaccine by year-end, and no researchers pursuing a dream about mRNA as an unprecedented route for vaccines.

Second is Operation Warp Speed. Had Mr. Trump not created the initiative, appointed as its leader a man who knows the vaccine development world, and given him license to spend $10 billion outside normal contracting procedures, Covid-19 vaccines would still be only works in progress. Even after they were finally approved, the vaccines’ distribution could have been long delayed. Imagine a world in which Mr. Trump had not appointed as deputy head of the operation a general who knows logistics and had the authority to write contracts with FedEx and UPS to book space on their airplanes and in their network of distribution centers.

So as Americans now look forward to getting vaccinated and resuming our normal lives, we should pause to give thanks to a remarkable group of scientists and entrepreneurs whose capitalism-fed competitive drive pushed them to venture into the unknown—for fortune and fame. And to a deeply flawed, often dysfunctional disrupter in chief who in this case certainly did a good thing.

Mr. Allison, a professor of government at Harvard, is author of “Destined for War: Can America and China Escape Thucydides’s Trap?” (2017).
 
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EagerBeaver

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A relative of mine who works as a hospital administrator, but not a frontline health care worker, told me she will go to the front of line and get her vaccine during the first week of January. I guess everyone in health care goes to the front of the line whether they actually work on the frontlines with Covid patients, or in a secure office building where no patients are ever seen.

No word on when regular schmucks like me will get their vaccine.
 

Like_It_Hot

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Jun 27, 2010
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A relative of mine who works as a hospital administrator, but not a frontline health care worker, told me she will go to the front of line and get her vaccine during the first week of January. I guess everyone in health care goes to the front of the line whether they actually work on the frontlines with Covid patients, or in a secure office building where no patients are ever seen.

No word on when regular schmucks like me will get their vaccine.
So important those anecdotic stories.
 

hungry101

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2007
5,838
546
113
When in the months ahead you are vaccinated, to whom should you be most thankful for making this possible?

The answer:
  1. Private, profit-seeking corporations including Pfizer, BioNTech, Moderna, AstraZeneca, Novavax and their counterparts?
  2. President Trump’s Operation Warp Speed

Who Made the Vaccine Possible? Not WHO. Pharmaceutical companies and Trump’s Operation Warp Speed deserve the vast bulk of the credit.​

By Graham T. Allison
Dec. 23, 2020
Wall Street Journal.com

im-276501

Doses of the Pfizer BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine are ready to be administered in Redlands, Calif., Dec. 18.​


With the rollout of Covid-19 vaccines, a light has appeared in the darkness. A hard winter lies ahead, but this pandemic will soon be over.
How can this be happening only 10 months after the first Covid death in the U.S., rather than the 10 years it took to develop a vaccine for measles? Nine months ago, Anthony Fauci stated unambiguously: “It will take at least a year and a half to have a vaccine we can use.” The public-health community dismissed that as a fantasy. A co-inventor of the rotavirus vaccine, Paul Offit, noted: “When Dr. Fauci said 12 to 18 months, I thought that was ridiculously optimistic.” A New York Times vaccine timeline went further, declaring: “The grim truth behind this rosy forecast is that a vaccine probably won’t arrive any time soon.”

Those naysayers have been proved wrong and it’s worth considering why. Let me invite the reader to answer a short quiz. When in the months ahead you are vaccinated, to whom should you be most thankful for making this possible?

• The initiative forwarded by the United Nations, Group of 20, World Health Organization and COVAX—an affiliate of WHO and the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations—that called for “a ‘people’s vaccine’ available and affordable for everyone, everywhere,” in the words of U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres ?

• Foundations and donors, including the consortium led by the Gates Foundation that established the CEPI (the “alliance to finance and coordinate the development of new vaccines”) at Davos, Switzerland, in 2017?
• Leaders of federal agencies, including the directors of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Food and Drug Administration, and National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, the health and human services secretary and the assistant secretary for health?
• The hundreds of medical and public health schools, their associated research labs and hospitals, and the tens of thousands of epidemiologists, virologists and other experts who have been talking endlessly about this plague?
• President Trump’s Operation Warp Speed, led by Moncef Slaoui —a controversial former head of vaccine development at the pharmaceutical company GlaxoSmithKline, which has delivered more vaccines than any other company in the world—which gave billions of taxpayer dollars to biotech and pharmaceutical companies to speed vaccine development and manufacture doses in advance in case a vaccine proved effective?
• Private, profit-seeking corporations including Pfizer, BioNTech, Moderna, AstraZeneca, Novavax and their counterparts?

Failure is an orphan; victory has a hundred fathers. In this case, success is certain to have thousands of paternity claimants. Many of those listed above will credibly claim to have contributed. But if this were a court of law allocating liability for damage done by a medicine, rather than a grateful public offering thanks, which of the actors would be held most responsible? Assuming all other claimants had done precisely what they did in this case—except for one—what is the likelihood that vaccines would be available today?

The answer is as clear as it will be uncomfortable to some readers. Had the WHO and Gates Foundation not existed, there would have been little difference in the availability of the vaccine. Had all of the departments and agencies in the U.S. government been on autopilot, this miraculous development would never have happened. This bureaucracy—including the CDC, FDA and HHS—was unable to provide a coronavirus test for several months after South Korea, Singapore and others were conducting extensive testing under their public-health responses.

Universities are rightly claiming to have built the foundations of knowledge without which other researchers couldn’t have sequenced the virus’s genome or developed mRNA delivery systems necessary to Pfizer and Moderna’s vaccines. But holding the pre-Covid base of knowledge constant, these scholarly researchers could have slept through the pandemic and it would have made little difference.

There are clearly only two primary causes behind the Covid-19 vaccine. The first was the capitalist system, which facilitated competition between private, profit-seeking biotech and pharmaceutical companies to produce a lifesaving product.

Like charities, universities, government agencies and pretty much everyone else, these organizations want to do good. But companies like Germany-based BioNTech, its Boston-based competitor Moderna, and the pharmaceutical giant Pfizer have also been racing for a pot of gold at the end of this rainbow. There would be no Covid-19 vaccine today had there been no venture capitalists prepared to invest before a product or profit was visible, no corporate leadership willing to double down with the companies’ own money in the spring to fund a crash effort to produce a vaccine by year-end, and no researchers pursuing a dream about mRNA as an unprecedented route for vaccines.

Second is Operation Warp Speed. Had Mr. Trump not created the initiative, appointed as its leader a man who knows the vaccine development world, and given him license to spend $10 billion outside normal contracting procedures, Covid-19 vaccines would still be only works in progress. Even after they were finally approved, the vaccines’ distribution could have been long delayed. Imagine a world in which Mr. Trump had not appointed as deputy head of the operation a general who knows logistics and had the authority to write contracts with FedEx and UPS to book space on their airplanes and in their network of distribution centers.

So as Americans now look forward to getting vaccinated and resuming our normal lives, we should pause to give thanks to a remarkable group of scientists and entrepreneurs whose capitalism-fed competitive drive pushed them to venture into the unknown—for fortune and fame. And to a deeply flawed, often dysfunctional disrupter in chief who in this case certainly did a good thing.

Mr. Allison, a professor of government at Harvard, is author of “Destined for War: Can America and China Escape Thucydides’s Trap?” (2017).
Wow! Great article. Thank God for Trump and capitalism in developing this vaccine. Trump did a lot of good things when it come to deregulation. People on MERB have no idea the level of complexity and the cost to comply with the layers upon layers of regulations. Many are designed to stifle innovation because of chemophobia by politicals, NGOs, and the public.
 
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Fradi

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Apr 9, 2019
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Around the corner
I will be grateful to Biden for having the fabulous foresIght of challenging everybody to wear a mask for a 100 days as soon as he takes office.
We would be nowhere if we didn’t have such great thinkers amongst us.
Fuck Trump and his warp speed those vaccines are probably full of microchips from Bill Gates trying to run your life.
 

Like_It_Hot

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Jun 27, 2010
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Not sure how much bite this has, interesting though.

Cette histoire a au moins 15 ans. Le Viox a été retiré du marché depuis. Merck a fermé de nombreux centres de recherches et productions à travers le monde, dont celui de Pointe-Claire, près de Montréal.
 

Sol Tee Nutz

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2012
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Look behind you.
^^^^^^ Another article with bits about her saying if she died suddenly foul play should be expected.


Kind of matches the other article I posted about big pharma
 

Like_It_Hot

Well-Known Member
Jun 27, 2010
2,799
3,030
113

Sol Tee Nutz

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2012
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Look behind you.
Pay no attention to them, them have their own media and follow it to the letter, no questions asked.
 

Like_It_Hot

Well-Known Member
Jun 27, 2010
2,799
3,030
113
So as Americans now look forward to getting vaccinated and resuming our normal lives, we should pause to give thanks to a remarkable group of scientists and entrepreneurs whose capitalism-fed competitive drive pushed them to venture into the unknown—for fortune and fame. And to a deeply flawed, often dysfunctional disrupter in chief who in this case certainly did a good thing.

Mr. Allison, a professor of government at Harvard, is author of “Destined for War: Can America and China Escape Thucydides’s Trap?” (2017).
That is the important point! "And to a deeply flawed, often dysfunctional disrupter in chief who in this case certainly did a good thing."
Don't forget that Russia and China also developped vaccines. So capitalism work but it is not the only way or the Holy Graal. Also all the research done in the last 15-20 years on expressing proteins (in this case, COVID spike protein) within humans allowed this rapid response. The technology was there before "warp speed". The good thing is this technology is now proven working and if there are future mutations or even a completely new virus it will be possible to build up a new effective vaccine.
 

Fradi

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2019
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Around the corner
^^^^^^
Perhaps you would like to opt out of the current available vaccines and wait for the Chinese or Russian versions to be available here.
That way you will feel safe knowing warp speed had nothing to do with it.
 
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