COVID's vaccine, by whom, when, effective? all around the vaccine

[wetnose]

If you're so afraid of "long-term" effects, go to google.com and look up documented long term, widespread and persistent effects from ANY vaccine EVER made.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

Spoiler: there's none. There weren't huge swaths of people who died or had medical problems from the vaccines created for yellow fever, mumps, chicken pox, shingles, TB...you name it.

By design, vaccines are designed to deliver their little bit of information for the immune system and disappear. That's it. That's why the C19 vaccines were approved so quickly (compared to typical medicines), since any side effects would have shown up during the trial period. Here's an expert on the subject:

Three things to know about the long-term side effects of COVID vaccines

Many Americans say they want to “make sure the shot is safe” before getting vaccinated. That data is already in, and it is overwhelming.

www.uab.edu

 

[Like_It_Hot]

Now you are doing the exact same thing, There is not enough evidence yet to support this claim.
It would be great news if the new variant would be similar to nothing more than a mild to bad cold, that would be better than even the vaccines, but it is way too early to make that claim.

Fradi you are almost "right on the dot" on this one. But there are caveats
.
What we know now:
1- The main concern is still the Delta-Variant and vaccination should be our main goal for now
2- The Omicron seems to be more contagious than delta
3- The Omicron might be less effective in causing severe disease or death (no sufficient datas yet)
But those datas are from the epidemiology in Southern Africa which we know is different from the one in Northern America (Canada and USA)
4- IF 2 and 3 are true (we might know in 3-4 weeks, for America) than, it way with time replace the delta. Caveat: how long will it take, months, years?
5- IF 2 and 3 are false, our present hope is that the vaccines will keep their great efficiency or a good one. The near future hope would be that we can get a tweaked vaccine to improved efficiency if or when needed. But it would take 6-12 months to develop, test, approve and administer those vaccines. The problem remains with unvaccinated people.
6- In USA there are still 900 daily deaths, on Covid, almost all from delta-variant
7- It is not clear this omicron will replace delta in America. If effects are milder it's a "sort of a good news". Vaccination remains the best thing now.

As you concluded: "but it is way too early to make that claim". The next month should bring a lot of new knowledge for those who care for the true information. Not for those posting debunked propaganda from Malone and similar and not having any consideration for truth.

 

[Fradi]

I agree, for now Delta is our main worry and vaccines still seem to work quite well to prevent hospitalization and death.
Omicron may be a blessing or the devil in disguise and it is way to early to tell.

I don’t exactly put all my trust on news from South Africa either as they have a vested interest in maintaining trave, trade and tourist dollars.
I am not saying they are lying just nothing concrete or enough information from the rest of the world to prove anything yet one way or the other.
Until, then continuing vaccinations as rapidly as possible, wearing masks and maintaining distances are proven ways to slow the spread.

 

[Like_It_Hot]

On this malone. He is a frustrated scientist his career is crahing in flame. Similar story to didier raoult, and scott atlas, one of the last trump advisor on COVID

Malone claims to be the inventor of mRNA vaccines, although credit for the distinction is more often given to later advancements by Katalin Karikó or Derrick Rossi,[8][6][9][10] and was ultimately the result of the contributions of hundreds of researchers, of whom Malone was but one.[11]

In early 2020, during the COVID-19 pandemic, Malone was involved in research into the heartburn medicine famotidine (Pepcid) as a potential COVID-19 treatment following anecdotal evidence suggesting that it may have been associated with higher COVID-19 survival. Malone, then with Alchem Laboratories, suspected famotidine may target an enzyme that the virus (SARS-CoV-2) uses to reproduce, and recruited a computational chemist to help design a 3D-model of the enzyme based on the viral sequence and comparisons to the 2003 SARS virus.[19][20] After encouraging preliminary results, Alchem Laboratories, in conjunction with New York's Northwell Health, initiated a clinical trial on famotidine and hydroxychloroquine.[19] Malone resigned from Alchem shortly after the trial began and Northwell paused the trial due to a shortage of hospitalized patients.[18][21]

Malone received criticism for propagating COVID-19 misinformation, including making unsupported claims about the alleged toxicity of spike proteins generated by some COVID-19 vaccines;[2][10][4][22] using interviews on mass media to popularize self-medication with ivermectin;[23] and tweeting a study by others questioning vaccine safety that was later retracted.[2] He said LinkedIn suspended his account over what he claimed were posts he had made questioning the efficacy of some COVID-19 vaccines.[24] Malone has also claimed that the Pfizer–BioNTech and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines could worsen COVID-19 infections.[1]

With another researcher, Malone successfully proposed to the publishers of Frontiers in Pharmacology a special issue featuring early observational studies on existing medication used in the treatment of COVID-19, for which they recruited other guest editors, contributors, and reviewers. The journal rejected two of the papers selected: one on famotidine co-authored by Malone and another submitted by physician Pierre Kory on the use of ivermectin.[21] The publisher rejected the ivermectin paper due to what it stated were "a series of strong, unsupported claims" which they determined did "not offer an objective nor balanced scientific contribution."[21] Malone and most other guest editors resigned in protest in April 2021, and the special issue has been pulled from the journal's website.[21]

Malone has also been criticized for falsely claiming that the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) had not granted full approval to the Pfizer vaccine in August 2021.[25]

 

[Like_It_Hot]

even if 2% or 5% of people who took these injections suffer long-term issues, it will be devastating and become a far larger problem than covid ever was.

Your numbers come from nowhere. One thing is sure. 1,6% of Americans who tested positive are dead NOW.
AND 900 are dying daily. And those dying now are mostly unvaccinated ones. This you can't contest.

 

[Tweetie]

^^^^
Thanks I always do well with stocks that is because I have great advisors.
Making a claim that Omicron is nothing but a bad cold after 1 week of the alarms going off is called due diligence to you , wow.
These vaccines have now been in millions of arms for over 2 years not 1 week.

Omicrom has been around for many months but they only noticed it now because nobody ever felt any symptoms from it. But surely you knew this because you keep up on science so closely.

 

[Tweetie]

Your numbers come from nowhere. One thing is sure. 1,6% of Americans who tested positive are dead NOW.
AND 900 are dying daily. And those dying now are mostly unvaccinated ones. This you can't contest.

View attachment 19072

Average age of people dying of covid is 85. Average comorbidities is 5. These are people who would be dying of something else anyway. Indeed the impact of human-years loss is less than zero because the average life expectancy is less than 85. Covid has done very little damage to public health. Can the same be said of the injections? We shall only know in time.

 

[Tweetie]

If you're so afraid of "long-term" effects, go to google.com and look up documented long term, widespread and persistent effects from ANY vaccine EVER made.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

Spoiler: there's none. There weren't huge swaths of people who died or had medical problems from the vaccines created for yellow fever, mumps, chicken pox, shingles, TB...you name it.

By design, vaccines are designed to deliver their little bit of information for the immune system and disappear. That's it. Here's an expert on the subject:

Three things to know about the long-term side effects of COVID vaccines

Many Americans say they want to “make sure the shot is safe” before getting vaccinated. That data is already in, and it is overwhelming.

www.uab.edu

This post is so misleading that it borders on fraudulent. These injections are nothing like the previous vaccinations. It is an entirely different technology. This new treatment is not a vaccine in anything but name. Indeed it can't even eradicate the disease. But you knew that surely, since you are so well-informed about covid.

 

[Fradi]

Omicrom has been around for many months but they only noticed it now because nobody ever felt any symptoms from it. But surely you knew this because you keep up on science so closely.

Yes It is quite normal that it was around a couple of months before it was officially named and called a variant of concern.
It had to first spread in South Africa to be called that no.
Again you believe one or two months worth of unpublished data from a government that is desperate to keep its, trade, ability to travel, and tourist dollars but 2 years of data from all over the world with close to two billion doses of Covid vaccine floating around and untold millions in arms. means nothing to you.
You really want people to laugh at you keep it up.
Hopefully it really ends up as being a variant that doesn’t cause severe illness and might in effect have the possibility to end this pandemic, but for now there is nothing conclusive to say that whatsoever.

 

[gallantca]

Also I personally know 3 women who had a hard time with the injection. The 30 year old I know was in the hospital for a week. She was highly irritated that the hospital refused to admit it was caused by the shot. The 50 year old I know was in a coma and had her last rites read but has recovered. The 70-year-old died hours after telling me that she was having a bad reaction to the thing.

Let me show you a little trick I learned from the Covid deniers that claimed Covid didn't kill anyone :

Just because you go into a coma and you are vaccinated does not mean the vaccine caused the coma.

Curious, is reading last rites to a 50y/o still a thing ?

 

[gaby]

QUÉBEC.....5 ans et plus.....1 dose 86%......2 doses 81 %....nous sommes en route pour atteindre potentiellement/éventuellement 90% ....ce qui serait excellent pour une solide immunité collective..

 

[Tweetie]

Let me show you a little trick I learned from the Covid deniers that claimed Covid didn't kill anyone :

Just because you go into a coma and you are vaccinated does not mean the vaccine caused the coma.

Curious, is reading last rites to a 50y/o still a thing ?

I stated facts. Average age of those killed by is 85. Average number of comorbidities is 5, (hypertension, diabetes, obesity, etc). You need to base your arguments on factual evidence rather than derisive name calling. I personally don't care if you want to take those injections or not. Just don't come back in five years claiming that you didn't know that these might harm you in the long-term. I don't know if this will happen or not but I hope that it doesn't.

 

[Tweetie]

QUÉBEC.....5 ans et plus.....1 dose 86%......2 doses 81 %....nous sommes en route pour atteindre potentiellement/éventuellement 90% ....ce qui serait excellent pour une solide immunité collective..

Immunity to a variant that is on its way out. No immunity to the new variant, which is harmless anyway. Fauci wants people getting injected every six months now. You can clink your champagne glasses together in celebration, seeing as you love these injections so much.

 

[Womaniser]

That's illogical, irrational.
Decades of data demonstrates that traditional vaccines have no long-term significant deleterious effects.
No evidence demonstrates that the new-technique covid injection has no significant deleterious effects in the long term.
So you are basing your viewpoint on faith. That's not science, that's irrational. No scientific data supports your viewpoint.

Should we wait decades to get new vaccines ?

 

[Womaniser]

Immunity to a variant that is on its way out. No immunity to the new variant, which is harmless anyway. Fauci wants people getting injected every six months now. You can clink your champagne glasses together in celebration, seeing as you love these injections so much.

Perhaps the Trump suggestion of injecting Lysol should be used instead of Vaccines LOLL

 

[gallantca]

I stated facts. Average age of those killed by is 85. Average number of comorbidities is 5, (hypertension, diabetes, obesity, etc). You need to base your arguments on factual evidence rather than derisive name calling. I personally don't care if you want to take those injections or not. Just don't come back in five years claiming that you didn't know that these might harm you in the long-term. I don't know if this will happen or not but I hope that it doesn't.

Old wive's tales of people going into comas due to vaccine are not facts. They do nothing but try to stoke fear when there are no other facts to make a point

If you want to debate the risk of the vaccine, bring forward verifiable facts on the risk of the vaccine. There are verifiable facts on the benefit of vaccines.

Average age of death is metric, but one of many and mostly irrelevant to the decision to vaccinate or not. How overwhelmed our hospitals are has nothing to do with it. When beds are full, beds are full, no matter what age of the people in those beds is. And there are plenty of under 60 people in those beds and there are plenty of under 60 people having their surgeries postponed because those resources are used.

Vaccines have saved hundreds of thousands of lives and have allowed us to get closer to normal living. Those are facts.

Anyone that wants to debate the merits of vaccination and sanitary measures just needs to look at what happens when you don't follow science. You end up like Alberta with a healthcare system on the brink and the need to call in the military before making apologies of how bad you screwed up. Learn from others mistakes

 

[Carmine Falcone]

Immunity to a variant that is on its way out. No immunity to the new variant, which is harmless anyway. Fauci wants people getting injected every six months now. You can clink your champagne glasses together in celebration, seeing as you love these injections so much.

The data is still forthcoming, but the fact that the reinfected vaccinated people and vaccinated with booster are only experiencing mild symptoms is a sign that the vaccine is still working. Immunity isn't a dual state of yes or no, but degrees. So if a variant truly evades the vaccine, what we'll see is not just vaccinated people getting infected but getting sick enough to be hospitalized and die. That hasn't happened so far for people who have still "robust" immune systems. That robustness, btw, explains why it's the elderly who have mostly died from COVID, even fully vaccinated elderly. Declining vaccine efficacy may also be a contributing factor. Your immune system just isn't as strong in your mid 60s and older compared to younger (taking into consideration other factors like congenital immunodeficiencies, deliberate suppression from organ transplantation or acquired immunodeficiency like HIV infection).

Finally, the continued focus on older people dying from COVID misses so much. I'm fine with not spending weeks in a hospital bed just to stay alive when prevention is easier. Plus, there are previously healthy people in their 40s and younger (so not 85) that can't go back to work because of long COVID. I also came across something this week that people who fought a bout of COVID severe enough for hospitalization have a higher risk of dying within the next year.

People Who Survive Severe COVID at Higher Risk of Death in 1 Year

New research finds that people with long COVID have twice the chance of dying in the next year than those who never developed COVID-19.

www.healthline.com

So to focus on death and age of the people dying is a very incomplete picture.

(Btw, I really appreciate that this thread is mostly full of sensible people).

 

[sene5hos]

Marcus Lamb, an anti-vaccine Christian broadcaster who has supported the use of Ivermectin and Hycroxychloroquine to treat COVID, has died of COVID.

I feel bad when people die, and it's a shame he died from his own ignorance.
But he also may be responsible for others dying, so I am glad his lies and misinformation has been stopped dead in it's tracks.
Ignorance kills, stupidity kills much more.

They enabled the stupidity. They helped spread the lies and deceit. It’s a fitting end. The people I feel sorry for are those that were influenced and ultimately died believing his crap.

 

[Tweetie]

Should we wait decades to get new vaccines ?

In this case it would have been wise to limit this new injection on the vulnerable people most likely to get hurt by covid, specifically elderly people with comorbidities.

 

[Tweetie]

Marcus Lamb, an anti-vaccine Christian broadcaster who has supported the use of Ivermectin and Hycroxychloroquine to treat COVID, has died of COVID.

I feel bad when people die, and it's a shame he died from his own ignorance.
But he also may be responsible for others dying, so I am glad his lies and misinformation has been stopped dead in it's tracks.
Ignorance kills, stupidity kills much more.

They enabled the stupidity. They helped spread the lies and deceit. It’s a fitting end. The people I feel sorry for are those that were influenced and ultimately died believing his crap.

You sat down and wrote all that for what purpose? We don't know the long-term effects of this injection therapy, do you acknowledge this? It's a fact. It might be benign, it might not be. We have to weigh the threat of covid against this unknown.