Death in Laval

[Esco!]

Esco-
This happened in August of 2005. It was the middle of summer.

You're just offering the most obvious explanation, what you dont provide is a alternative theory.

Maybe there were alternate possible outcomes, perhaps they were being followed by less then desirable people and they decided to bail on the taxi??!!

 

[Esco!]

Maybe the car that was following the Taxi was part of the KGB

 

[Lawless]

EB,
As far as I know, no lawsuit by parents!
Retained lawyer in Montreal has its own problems with your equivalent of the IRS!!!

 

[hornyanglo66]

So they see a signpost in the dark and wonder 'what the fuck is that saying?'... jump the fence... and as they are plummeting downwards are thinking 'oh, that's what the fuck it said'.

Bottom line, they ran, they trespassed, they fell, they died. No way any lawsuit should be taken seriously IF ever laid.

2nd bottom line, we can speculate until the horsemen of the apocalypse come along.... we'll probably never really know why.

 

[Esco!]

Maybe the car that was following the Taxi was part of the KGB

And maybe they had a beef with the

CCCCCCC IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Fucking AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[joelcairo]

Something must be clear, let's not mix language issues in here. If I go to Germany, I don't expect French signs. There's no way anybody can expect English signs in Quebec, sorry.

I agree with the philosophy in the unquoted part of your post moiaussiquatre although it's not true that you can't protect people from their own stupidity: often you can. That being said, it seems the 2 strippers acted stupidly and caused their own deaths by jumping the fence, etc.

However to say there's no way anybody can expect English signs in Quebec is also pretty damn stupid. There are lots of English signs and English people in Quebec and their rights haven't yet been completely trampled. Also, maybe..just maybe...it would make good business sense to have English signs...but then again I guess Quebec's economy is so freakin great that it doesn't need the dollars that come from American tourists.

 

[John_Cage]

Well, I thought English was one of the offical languages in this city... We can choose to have all legal documents in English/French, and I believe we could also choose to speak English/French in a court of law (confirm, anyone?).

Sure, they "might not" have read the sign even if it's written in English; but the fact that it wasn't there DENIED them of the chance to read it in English. Thus, it's a very real problem for Red Light (depending on the Quebec civil laws on warning signs). Keep in mind, this ISN'T "Come to St. Hubert's for some nice chicken wings", this is "WARNING: You may fall to your death !". Qutie a serious warning sign that warrants an English subtitle at the very least.

As for the taxi driver, I don't know why he commited suicide. If it was as EB said, then he's not in that much trouble. He had NO REAL REASON to foresee the outcome of "chasing" the two Americans. He can't have knowingly endangered their lives, or even recklessly endangered them, if he didn't know how stupidly the men would've acted. Even with a tough jury, the worst he will get is invol. manslaughter. Plus he could've played up the fact that the sign WASNT in English thus, actually causing the men's death (because if it was, they might not have died). I just don't see him as culpable of this.

 

[EagerBeaver]

JC,

Your analysis is a fair one, regarding the taxi driver. However, it could very well be that he was guilty in his own mind, which is why he committed suicide. We'll never know.

I believe the families retained an attorney not to sue the taxi driver or the taxi company civilly - although they probably could have if he had been identified prior to his death - but rather to sue the companies responsible for maintaining the fence and the quarry. An article I had read suggested that one theory of negligence could be the failure to post the sign in English. Just because they were not REQUIRED by the language law to post the warning sign in English doesn't mean they should not have done so, if they knew or should have known that English-speaking customers of the Red Light might encounter the fence. When this topic was originally posted, nobody seemed to understand the basic concept that liability for negligence in most jurisdictions is not premised upon what the codified law requires one to do (doctrine of negligence per se), but what the reasonable person would have done under the circumstances then and there existing (application of the common law). The attorney hired by the families of the deceased youths or one of them had indicated that this was his potential theory. It appears as though it was never pursued. Only he can say why it was not pursued.

 

[Lawless]

I am unaware of any case law upholding negligence for failure to post a warning sign in English in the Province of Quebec.

 

[EagerBeaver]

I am unaware of any case law upholding negligence for failure to post a warning sign in English in the Province of Quebec.

That may be, but get me admitted pro hac vice and give me a jury of 6 English speaking persons - I don't even care if some of them are native Francophones as long as they are fluent in English - and maybe I could create some new common law. I have done it before (created new common law in the jurisdiction where I practice).

 

[Lawless]

Trial by jury in civil matter doesn't exist in the Province of Quebec!
If you like to read, next time you are in Mtl., pay a visit to Wilson & Lafleur on Notre-Dame, just opposite the Court House and you could get a Civil Code....nice reading at night!!!! Not that far away from common law as a whole!!

 

[EagerBeaver]

JHG,

We have the same thing in Connecticut, but it applies to all plaintiffs, residents and nonresidents alike. It is called a "recognizance" and the person taking the recognizance (usually the attorney's secretary) guarantees costs up to $250. It must be completed on the summons form accompanying the complaint.

That is a real bummer that there is no right to a jury trial in civil matters in Quebec. In Connecticut, it is a statutory right.

 

[Gorsky]

To my knowledge, DANGER is spelled the same way in french or english. Stop the nonsense about french/english... anyway even if the signs were in all languages talked on earth, I am sure they wouldn't have read them anyway... Remember they are running away in the dark!!

Also I am glad that we don't have a system like in the US because the "american't" have all sort of stupid procedures... You get sued because of something isn't right in your fence and they died because they walked to their own death. For sure, you lose the case. But as an "american't", you sue the family back because they tresspassed on your property... all that is nonsense and a big waste of time and money except for the lawyers...

 

[EagerBeaver]

On the other hand, when speaking to my American friends and acquaintences, everyone has stories and tricks for getting out of jury duty, such that my guess is that the jury one ends up with will be composed of people with nothing better to do.

This is not really true. I have picked many juries and the pools vary immensely from one judicial district to the next, but generally there are a fair number of people very interested in serving on juries, in some cases because of a sense of civic duty, and in some cases because our culture has been bred through legal TV shows to be intrigued by courtroom dramas. There are also a lot of senior citizens and others who get picked who don't have anything better to do.

Since 1990 I have been called for jury duty 8 times, and was excused immediately every time, in most cases because everyone knows me and there is no way I can be fair. I would love to serve on a civil jury. But the attorneys know that I would make that jury of 6 a jury of one (me) so I will never get picked, ever. Which is a bummer.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Since then, he felt himself responsible for what happened that night, according to the messages left by his friend in the voice mailbox of Claude Poirier. He was angry at himself for having chased the young men and he felt a lot of pressure.

Captain,

Thanks for the translation. It seems as though one tragedy has now become two. It's very, very sad because all the evidence went with this man to his grave.

 

[EagerBeaver]

JHG,

In Connecticut there is no statutory excusing of attorneys from jury duty. We receive summonses like everyone else, and if we fail to appear get the same punishment as everyone else.

However, in CT attorneys rarely get picked on juries. In civil cases, a civil trial attorney would never get picked, although it is possible to see a civil trial attorney get picked in a criminal case and vice versa. The closest I came to getting picked was in a rape case I was called on in the 1990s. The defense wanted me (not sure why) and the prosecutor didn't. The judge asked me if there was any reason I could not serve and I told him (truthfully) that I had vacation plans in the Carribean that coincided with the beginning of evidence. The Judge then excused me sua sponte over the objections of defense counsel. I actually think defense counsel should have been relieved I was excused.

 

[metoo4]

So, next I go to Florida, I'll get in trouble of some sort, let's say trespassing, and I'll ensure to hurt myself. Then, I'll sue the owner of the place I broke into because his signs weren't in French! There's a large french community in Florida so I expect the signs to be in french as well.

That's nonsense, right? Same as expecting English signs in Quebec, period.

Quebec is probably the place in North America where minorities get the best treatment so, leave me alone with any tought of "should be expected". NOTHING is to be expected by English minorities in Quebec. In Quebec, we protect French but we do respect English. English-speaking peoples get services in English because WE AGREE to give them services in English. Somebody speaking only English will survive and find work easy in Montreal but, somebody who only speak french will have quite a rough time in Toronto. When this change, you can come back to me and tell me I'm wrong but until then, nobody can honestly say we mistreat English-speaking peoples here.

And as other agreed, no matter the language, if you're running away in the dark, you don't stop, grab a flashlight and read signs.

Why didn't they get physical with the driver? Not all thieves are bullies, that's why. Some take what they want and prefer to run and avoid confrontation. That's what they did. Nothing point to the cabbie having a gun or weapon. This is Canada, not USA. ANd the guy might not have went to police because of where he came from: in some countries, cops are less than citizen's best friends so, he might have been scared to come forward.

 

[eastender]

Getting real for a minute.

So, next I go to Florida, I'll get in trouble of some sort, let's say trespassing, and I'll ensure to hurt myself. Then, I'll sue the owner of the place I broke into because his signs weren't in French! There's a large french community in Florida so I expect the signs to be in french as well.

Trespassing in Florida would not be a good idea. It is permitted to carry and use guns so chances are that if you trespass you may not have to worry about suing rather your estate would have to worry about getting you back to Canada ,notice Canada - no Quebec embassy to help your estate.

Before posting about protecting the rights of other ethnic minorities think about the rights of the French Quebecers.I believe you will grant me that like every other individual a French Quebecer has the right to live a full and long life and enjoy good health to the fullest.I think every rational individual would agree that this right should be extended to all peoples.

In Quebec road signs are in French only. A lone individual who is not French speaking/reading makes a mistake because they cannot read French that results in a horrific accident that kills or alters the life of many French Quebecers. How are the various rights of French Quebecers protected in such circumstances? What benefits are derived from such an incident?

 

[EagerBeaver]

In Quebec road signs are in French only. A lone individual who is not French speaking/reading makes a mistake because they cannot read French that results in a horrific accident that kills or alters the life of many French Quebecers. How are the various rights of French Quebecers protected in such circumstances? What benefits are derived from such an incident?

Eastender,

If jury trials were allowed in civil cases in Quebec, these are EXACTLY the kinds of arguments one would be making to a jury in closing arguments in the case of Estate of Kraynak vs. John Doe Quarry Company and John Doe Fence Company.

 

[voyageur11]

Why is it so hard to understand this is Quebec and not Ct we have our own law not perfect but it works for us