Election 2012: Will History repeat itself? Union National splits vote, PQ wins power.

[Gentle]

Hey, Gentle! I'm a nationalist too.

Ha ha ha ! I luv it when a fed gets his bubble busted !
You guys are so predictable that you're taking the fun out if it !

Maybe you still didn't understand that Quebec isn't gonna kiss anyone's ass as ROC did !
We will leave it to them, they have had plenty of practice to many others including the US and now Israel ! :lol:

 

[Gentle]

...Her planned 75% tax on capitol gains should bring in lots more PQ people. LMFAO. Wake up to reality, Quebec just stepped backwards.

The real fun part is that you guys actually believe Marois.
didn't you get it yet ?

You really think the PQ will provoke the feds to give them a reason to oppose the budget and go back into election ?
you have to be really gullible to think that PQ will hand over power back to the Libs this way !

Ha ha ha ! you should have listened back in spring when I told ya it wasn't really about some stupid tuition fees !

Like I said before : all of those who thought Nationalism was dead in Quebec got "Owned" big time !
And that includes pappy Charest ! :lol:

 

[sapman99]

Things are a-changing

Two articles in today's La Presse clearly show that in Quebec right now the population is not at all supporting "separation" nor is it allergic to anglophone politicians.

The first article deals with the aftermath of Mayor Tremblay's resignation. His party is coming apart at the seams, and it is quite likely that a coalition will emerge, lead by Michael Applebaum and supported by Louise Harel who is from PQ origins.

The second article deals with a recent opinion poll that clearly shows the PQ was elected for the sake of change and not to pursue a separatist agenda. The results on all the different questions that were asked of the respondents are crystal clear.

 

[RobinX]

re: Things are a-changing

To follow up on the previous post, here is an opinion piece that appeared in the Gazette this week urging anglophones to chill out and not get so worked up about the language issue:

Opinion: English safe, anglos not oppressed

Here are some relevant extracts from the article:

The enforcement of language laws is a substantial part of the PQ’s platform and that the ideas behind such policies have been around for decades. What is surprising is some anglophones’ recent passion on this issue. Wherefore this anger, this indignation, this — dare we say it? — paranoia?

The root of it seems to be nostalgia for the way things used to be, before many of today’s anglophones were born, when their parents and grandparents had advantages that in retrospect can only be deemed unfair. It is time to abandon this nostalgia.

What’s more, the constant anglophone appeal for bilingualism in Quebec comes off as specious; it seems to be a one-way exchange. The Quebec anglophone would do well to remember that the Manitoban whose native language is French is actually losing that native language due to the failed implementation of Pierre Trudeau’s dream of bilingualism.

The provincial government is entirely within its constitutional rights to do what it can to protect the French language in Quebec, and anglophones can and should understand this. If for English-speakers language is how one expresses herself, for many francophones language is part of who they are. Just as a man from Alabama whose father had to drink from a separate water fountain would never be expected to forget the colour of his skin, so a French-speaking Quebecer whose ancestors lived as a colonized majority cannot really be expected to forget the characteristic — language — that was used for centuries to differentiate her.

Since anglophones’ own linguistic fears are without any real foundation, ... the anglophone community would do well to remember a surprisingly helpful bit of psychobabble: “It’s not about you.”

I think that the author of the opinion piece makes some very valid points.

 

[Techman]

Yup, an opinion piece from an American who lived here for 8 years really means a lot.

 

[sapman99]

Yup, an opinion piece from an American who lived here for 8 years really means a lot.

Well, I am not saying that quote of your is without merit. But for the sake of consistency, there have been a lot of people "opining" in this thread and other language and Québec politic related threads here whose sole experience with our province and city is having sex for a fee with our girls . Then they leave.

I guess that by this token it makes their "contributions" even less credible than the guy in the Gazette piece.

 

[Techman]

You won't see me disagreeing with your post, sap.

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

Be thankful that the PQ has a minority. If they had their way everything they said about raising taxes and royalties would be happening.

 

[Gentle]

THINGS ARE CHANGING to use some quotes earlier...:smile:

Funny this post I just read back... about ROC being tired of kissing Quebec's ass ?
I wonder why ?

Can't say I blame them...even the Gazette is all confused at how we live in Quebec.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/health/Opinion+Quebec+attitude+changing+better/7754161/story.html

 

[RobinX]

Montreal Gazette articles on Quebec society

The Gazette article cited above is not confusing at all. It clearly explains some of the reasons why the level of life satisfaction is now higher in Quebec than in any other province in Canada:

In the last 25 years, Quebec has taken its place as:

• a socially supportive democracy
• with high gender equity;
• strong support for children, families and culture;
• a shorter work week than in other provinces;
• and excellent access to higher education.

Quebec also stands out with:

• its secular society
• and distinct mixture of earlier Catholic and Protestant traditions.

The data show that non-francophones in Quebec have probably experienced as much of a rise in life satisfaction as francophones

Admittedly, the Gazette often get it wrong, mostly because of it's narrow focus on serving the interests of anglo Montrealers, and especially West Island anglos, which acts as blinder to a proper understanding of the realities of Quebec society. However, there are some occasions where the Gazette does get it right, such as in the aforementioned article.

Another example where the Gazette gets it right is this Gazette analysis of the performance of the PQ minority Government's first 100 days in office:
Pauline Marois's first 100 days: ambitious plans mostly met

Here are some relevant extracts from the article:

the Parti Québécois leader has lived up to most of her commitments — though tweaking some and softening others, given that her minority government would be unable to work without opposition collaboration.

Marois promised to roll back the proposed university tuition hike that transformed downtown Montreal into a nightly battleground for much of the spring and to abrogate Bill 78, a special law adopted by the National Assembly that carried heavy fines and restricted freedom of assembly.

She made good on that commitment at her first cabinet meeting, during which another PQ promise, to shut down Gentilly-2, Hydro-Québec’s only nuclear reactor, was ratified.

 

[wasisname]

I heard during the last snow fall, they cleared the west end of the island first because it was Anglo snow and it just had to go. True story. This guy I know, he knows a guy.

For the love of Jebus, if anyone takes this seriously, just find a mirror and face palm yourself.

 

[James Mason]

Marois days are numbered, how long can she keep up this charade of Maitre chez nous? How long can she play house and have pretend tea parties with her cronies. It is a matter of time before there is a non confidence vote and she will be out. If she sells her chateau where will she go?

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

Pauline must have teeth marks all over her tongue from biting it so much lately. She has done nothing yet to help the Quebec economy.

 

[RobinX]

It is a matter of time before there is a non confidence vote and she will be out.

This is just wishful thinking on your part. The PQ governement will NOT be defeated by a confidence vote any time soon. There are a multitude of reasons for this. Here are some of them:

1. Confidence motions can only arise on certain votes, such as those related to the budget, which is usually presented annually, in February of each year. Reference: National Assembly of Québec: New Rules for a More Effective Parliament

In all other situations, Members are therefore free to vote without the risk of bringing down the Government.

2. The Quebec Liberals are currently without a leader, with their leadership convention scheduled for March 17. This means that they will probably again decide to strategically prevent the PQ government from falling during the vote on the budget in February, as they did for the last budget. Reference: PQ minority budget passes

The two main opposition parties could have toppled the minority government had their combined 69 members rejected the budget, but the Liberals had previously stated they didn't want another election and that some of their members wouldn't turn up for the vote. As a result, only 27 Liberals voted.

3. The Charbonneau Commission will continue it's work in 2013 and the Liberals run the risk of being further tainted by fresh revelations of corruption ocurring while they were in power. It is probably for this reason, among others, that François Legault of the CAQ has indicated that he would like to have an election only AFTER the Charbonneau Commission has completed it's work. Add to this is the fact that there have been calls from within the CAQ for an extension of the mandate of the Charbonneau Commission into the future.

4. The PQ minority government has largely kept it's promises, which is exactly what a government wants to do to ensure it's popularity and the duration of it's mandate. Reference: Pauline Marois's first 100 days: ambitious plans mostly met

the Parti Québécois leader has lived up to most of her commitments

5. The latest polls, taken in December, give the PQ a lead in popular vote, with the seat projection in both polls being in majority territory for the PQ. Reference: Liberals, CAQ tied as PQ maintains lead

the CROP poll would deliver a big majority to the PQ with 82 seats to 23 for the Liberals, 17 for the CAQ, two for QS, and one for Option Nationale.

Léger's numbers would deliver the smallest of majorities to the PQ with only 63 seats. The Liberals would win 35, the CAQ 23, and Québec Solidaire four. Presumably, the PQ's majority could be made somewhat more comfortable with the support of QS.

6. Pauline Marois is now more popular than ever, with her approval rating even higher than that of the PQ. Reference: Pauline Marois

La popularité de Pauline Marois a grimpé en flèche en un an. En décembre 2011, c’étaient 34 % des répondants qui avaient une image favorable d’elle. Aujourd’hui, ce taux d’appréciation se situe à 44 %.

For these reasons and others, you should not expect the PQ government to be defeated by a confidence vote any time in the near future.

 

[Gentle]

It's the on-going ever saga of people living in fantasy land while never getting to really understand how we live in Quebec.

Take the Bloc Quebecois in Ottawa for instance.
People assumed that it was over because people in Quebec decided in one shot to vote for (NDP) Jack.

And I bet the ROC still can get it as to how and when it (the Bloc) will rise once again in Ottawa.
Or we might want to go back for Liberals despite Trudeau's "name" and get them in power over Cons once again in Ottawa to vote in the next one after for Bloc to kicked Trudeau out.

People just don't get it on how we in Quebec can speak as one voice even when it looks like we are divided.

Last provincial election was clear and simple and so easy to predict.
Get Charest out, put the PQ in but not enough to give them too much power and make sure a third party could play the balance of power to make sure we don't get screwed by either the PQ or the Liberals.

It's as simple as that.

PQ is now a minority gov. which can only do the same sh!t Charest was doing at the begining which hardcore feds don't have the guts to admit which was : one step up and two steps back.

It's the reason of his 'two hands on the wheel' in the next election.

To think at this moment that the PQ isn't going to last or that the Liberals will get back strong in the next election is living in fantasy land.

The only constant since hundred of years now in Quebec is : We think differently than ROC. We live differently, we do politics in the same manner, our social issues are different and this is what makes Quebec different and get us totally apart from ROC.

Hardcore feds who only focus on language, geographics, titles at the UN or economics can't and will never get it !
Nor the hardcore sovereignists.

I mean why would we be stupid enough not to profit from the Tar sands since ROC told us in 1995 that they love Quebec so much they were willing to kiss our a** for us to stay in Canada ?

And why should we bow to Ottawa when we know our way of life is different and we can get their politics all screwed up enough that Canada's prime minister can't gov. without having to bow in learning french since the beginning of the Confederation ?

Poor Feds... they don't have a choice but trying to make everyone believe that Quebec is only a province... they still haven't figure out that Canada isn't a federation.
No matter... we know better and the world knows better.

That's why the best is always to push for independance but never making it.
It pisses ROC off yet they can't do without us unless they become simply just another state from the US.

And no hardcore sovereignist can suddenly think he will become the next Che Guevara without being himself kicked in the a**.

That's what I call the perfect combination which makes us more happy :lol:
For no matter if ROC could be richer... being only rich doesn't bring you happiness !

True happiness comes from being proud of what you have and not wanting to have more which only makes you the more frustrated !

We in Quebec have a nation without a title at the UN but without having to get killed like the Palestinians to get one.
We live alongside other nations which includes the first nations as well and we don't have to kill ourselves over some land.

We aren't producing any oil (yet) while we still benefit from it since ROC was having it easy when they were picking their nose at growing wheat and raising cattles while Quebec's population was big and working hard at getting them their welfare cheques !

Isn't it nice ?

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

True happiness comes from being proud of what you have and not wanting to have more which only makes you the more frustrated !

That part I do not get. Being a have not province since 1957 and needing money ( in the range of 8 billion a year ) from the ROC to survive. It would be nice for a proud province to make themselves better. For myself I would not feel right getting special perks ( $7 a day daycare and very cheap education ) when someone else pays for it and they themselves do not have the special treats because of the high cost.

 

[Gentle]

Quebec doesn't need ROC to survive.
It is simply going by the same rules all the other provinces have been benefiting since the creation of the confederation which made them welfare provinces for so long.

There's all kinds of different exemple of this even with Ontario lately in 2008 when it got a lot of money to keep it's auto industry.
That was welfare money, yet all the hypocrites in Ottawa didn't have the guts to say so.

Nowadays people are proud to say they got more while paying less for.
People are even proud in getting away with free stuff without having to pay for it.
Everyday I hear this from people I work with, from customers to bankers and politicians that if you can get more than what you worked for it means you are smarter !
It's the western democratic way of life ! It's all based on money !

Basicaly it's the ... why pay for others ? If they are stupid enough to pay for you ?
Translated into the actual frustration of today it means that Feds were crying baby about Quebec in 1995 but since the oil price soared and Tar sands became THE way for Ottawa to cash in without paying back what it took from rich provinces like Ontario and Quebec, the same system they put in to rob Quebec to build Canada back in the early days of the Confederation is pissing them off.

Get back in 1995. Do you really think the Feds would have cheated in Quebec's referendum if they knew they could keep all the $$$ from the Tar Sands without having to pay anything back to Quebec ? Nop ! never in a million years !

It means when you spit in the air...

So now, they just have to STFU and suck it up !

I was able to learn english mainly for my love of the culture coming from the US (back then).

I enjoyed getting access to loads of money and their market since.

I enjoy living in Montreal since we have an open culture with so much nice stuff to indulge in.

And I see how some are so pissed off at having to fight for their rights and cry baby on something all my ancestors and mostly my own family had to go thru to struggle living in Canada and I smile ! What goes around, comes around !

I'm living every day on the same beat of this nation (no matter where I am in the world); feeling every quirks and fun parts including the hobby.

Getting back to election 2012 ? it's simple. Study Quebec's politics since day one and you'll see. This Big nation called Canada was built starting from here in Quebec.
despite everything ROC and hardcore Feds wants to believe. But Quebec's different and unless you realy live here using both language or french only, you ain't gonna know how we think.

Have fun !

Cheers !:smile:

 

[simonpaul]

GENTLE you description of the politic past in CANADA can not be more accurate than that.Congradulations