Elections: MERB poll results and before/after elections discussions.

[gugu]

Matière à réflexion pour mes amis de Québec qui votent conservateurs.

En 1999, par exemple, M. Harper avait affirmé que la loi sur la langue française au Québec avait été adoptée par le Parti québécois dans le but de «supprimer les libertés fondamentales des Québécois anglophones et d'assurer la ghettoïsation de la majorité francophone dans un État ethnique».

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualite...B13b_elections-federales_1470245_accueil_POS1

 

[RedRocks]

Many people left the province due to the enforcement of the French language on people.

You are right about that. But it was by far mostly English speaking Canadians, according to Statistic Canada (definitely my preferred reading lol).
In the same time, many French speaking Canadians came to Québec (dixit Statistic Canada).
All in all, the net flow was about neutral.
(I should enroll into MythBuster ).

The First Nations people are not enforcing their language and culture on everyone living in this province. They are not forcing businesses to operate in their language.

And how would they do that ?
Both French and English colonizer made sure that they could never do that.
Now, in the case of Quebecers, we do have the means and the will.
And this comes from historical facts, where the English power did not have any choice to grant French Canadians some rights and power to protect its language, religion and culture.
All that, while having definite plans to assimilate the French culture (if you recall).

Federalists are not promoting enforcing on their language on other people nor are they trying to assimilate other cultures into their own.

That’s a load of crap and is very hypocritical.
English language and culture is imposed on everyone, elsewhere in Canada, by default.

People should have the right to choose the language for their school to attend to.

I don’t see much Chinese, Italian, Arab and Polish (the list goes on), nor even French schools or government services in any parts of the country.
Can Chinese or any of the above mentioned minorities work in their own language in Canada ?
Can Polish get medical treatments in their own language ?
Can Arabs have many wives in Canada ?
Isn’t this last case imposed by law…and by the dominant religion ?

They used the Notwithstanding Clause to create Bill 101. They are making a huge exception for Quebec to ensure the dominance of the French language even though it goes against democracy and freedom of speech.
…
Just the fact that they are enforcing the French language is enough to prove that. They used the "Notwithstanding Clause" to setup Bill 101 even though it override freedom of expression and freedom of equality. This goes against the Human Charter of rights and democracy.

Of course we are and we did not have any choice.
The English language is the de facto language in Canada and it does not need protection.
Giving a right in the Charter is fine, but this right is a general rule.
The main problem is the implementation of that right, which is very complex and mostly unfair mechanism.
How do you respect a right for a portion of a society, if doing so goes against some rights of another portion of that same society ?
Whatever you do will be unfair to some…but that is democracy…the tyranny of the majority.
In the case of Québec, it was the Notwithstanding Clause and Bill 101.
Yes, it may be seen as unfair…but it is much less hypocritical, don’t you think ?

 

[Joe Kerr]

I'm voting for the NDP this time because I would like to throw a scare into the Liberals. The Liberals have been taking federalist votes for granted since forever. Maybe some lost seats in Quebec will teach them a lesson.

 

[sapman99]

Who's afraid of the Big Bad Jack? The Bloc, that's who

The election is looming closer and the rhetoric is reaching new heights: in a last-ditch effort to stem the NDP fever raging in the province, the Bloc Québécois is trotting out some of the most vociferous nationalists they can find to come to their aid: Jacques Parizeau and Gérald Larose.

Parizeau had to step down as Premier of Quebec and PQ leader as a result of his drunken "ethnics and anglos" speech following the "No" result of the 1995 referendum. He has long been a partisan of winning sovereignty by "any and all means" and even soft nationalists shy away from any association with him.

Gérald Larose used names like "scoundrel", "impostor", and "double-crosser" to describe Layton to his audience. Note that the French term he used "crosseur", has a sexual connotation: "he who wanks others"... Not bad for an ex-priest :amen:.

I am all for a strong Quebec, but within a united Canada. The Bloc has long been an obstacle to this, and I am glad people are finally seeing the harm they are doing. If this election chastises the neo-Cons in the rest of Canada and the Bloc here, it will have been well worth it.

There is also a new political formation on the provincial scene: "Coalition pour l'avenir du Québec", and I would not be surprised that this disenchantment with the BQ later on becomes one for the PQ at Assemblée Nationale.

Stay tuned .

 

[Doc Holliday]

I am all for a strong Quebec, but within a united Canada. The Bloc has long been an obstacle to this, and I am glad people are finally seeing the harm they are doing. If this election chastises the neo-Cons in the rest of Canada and the Bloc here, it will have been well worth it.

There is also a new political formation on the provincial scene: "Coalition pour l'avenir du Québec", and I would not be surprised that this disenchantment with the BQ later on becomes one for the PQ at Assemblée Nationale.

Very well said, Sap. I totally agree with you.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I just read an article in "Rue Frontenac" where it mentions Bloc leader Gilles Duceppe is barely ahead in his own riding & risks losing it. Polls today showed that he's currently ahead 38.3% to 35.1% for the NDP candidate, unknown Helene Laverdiere, a former diplomat.

If Duceppe loses in his own riding, it might mean the end of Gilles Duceppe's political career. It might also mean the Bloc Quebecois' influence on the Canadian political landscape has come to an end. Could the party survive? It's very doubtful.

Good riddance if you ask me.

 

[eastender]

Elsewhere in Canada and in Quebec

And how would they do that ?



That’s a load of crap and is very hypocritical.
English language and culture is imposed on everyone, elsewhere in Canada, by default.


I don’t see much Chinese, Italian, Arab and Polish (the list goes on), nor even French schools or government services in any parts of the country.
Can Chinese or any of the above mentioned minorities work in their own language in Canada ?
Can Polish get medical treatments in their own language ?
Can Arabs have many wives in Canada ?
Isn’t this last case imposed by law…and by the dominant religion ?


Of course we are and we did not have any choice.
The English language is the de facto language in Canada and it does not need protection.
Giving a right in the Charter is fine, but this right is a general rule.
The main problem is the implementation of that right, which is very complex and mostly unfair mechanism.
How do you respect a right for a portion of a society, if doing so goes against some rights of another portion of that same society ?
Whatever you do will be unfair to some…but that is democracy…the tyranny of the majority.
In the case of Québec, it was the Notwithstanding Clause and Bill 101.
Yes, it may be seen as unfair…but it is much less hypocritical, don’t you think ?

Actually other minorities do have access to education and services in their own language:

The Jewish community has a large educational system in place throughout Canada including Quebec while smaller communities also have integrated into the educational system. One example:

http://www.edu.gov.mb.ca/k12/cur/languages/ukrainian/index.html

Economically, a significant number of ethnic communities have their own credit unions across Canada including Quebec.Just google "Name of ethnic group" credit union. Legislation precluded banks so they went the credit union or caisse pop route. A number of the ethnic caisse pops here in Quebec are amongst the leaders when it comes to assets and performance.

Services. Access to professional services is usually available to any ethnic group with a large enough population base within two generations of their arrival in Canada or Quebec. The youth are more than happy to fill the need.
In the east end of Montreal there are ethnic retirement, extended care facilities, community centers, financial and professional services, educational opportunities in a variety of languages beyond French and English.

 

[eastender]

Election Humour

Some election humour:

STEPHEN HARPER was visiting an Ontario primary school and the class was in the middle of a discussion related to words and their meanings. The teacher asked Mr. Harper if he would like to lead the discussion on the word 'Tragedy'.



So our illustrious leader asked the class for an example of a 'Tragedy'.

A little boy stood up and offered:

If my best friend, who lives on a farm, is playin' in the field and a tractor runs over him and kills him, that would be a tragedy.

Incorrect, said Harper. That would be an accident.

A little girl raised her hand:

If a school bus carrying fifty children drove over a cliff, killing everybody inside, that would be a tragedy.

'I'm afraid not', explained Harper, that's what we would refer to as a great loss''

The room went silent. No other children volunteered.

Harper searched the room.

Isn't there someone here who can give me an example of a tragedy?

Finally, at the back of the room, little Johnny raised his hand and said:

If a plane carrying you and Mr. Ignatieff and Mr. Layton and Mr. Duceppe were struck by a 'friendly fire' missile & blown to smithereens, that would be a tragedy.

Fantastic, exclaimed Harper, and can you tell me why that would be a tragedy ?

Well, said Johnny, it has to be a tragedy, because it certainly wouldn't be a great loss, and it probably wouldn't be a f****** accident either!

 

[ROCKY RACCOON]

Election predictions.

Harper minority with Layton in opposition. You heard it here first.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Harper minority with Layton in opposition. You heard it here first.

I absolutely agree.

 

[wasisname]

Why reinvent the wheel

http://www.threehundredeight.blogspot.com/

His projections have serious lag, but there are real reasons for it.

 

[wasisname]

Finally, at the back of the room, little Johnny raised his hand and said:

If a plane carrying you and Mr. Ignatieff and Mr. Layton and Mr. Duceppe were struck by a 'friendly fire' missile & blown to smithereens, that would be a tragedy.

Fantastic, exclaimed Harper, and can you tell me why that would be a tragedy ?

Well, said Johnny, it has to be a tragedy, because it certainly wouldn't be a great loss, and it probably wouldn't be a f****** accident either!

No, it would be a tragedy because Elizabeth May isn't on the plane also.

I just can't take her seriously.

 

[Mod 11]

True, let's not reinvent the wheel... Considering MERB isn't a political board, I think 1 thread about elections is plenty.

2 threads merged.

 

[Monsieur-Du-Q]

Coalition government of course, but now Jack challenging Michael as prime minister...quite interesting.
Less interesting: some very stupid statements made here by people who just seem to make ''Les deux solitudes'' theory going on forever.
Some basic realities about this country:
-The english minority in Québec is far more respected and get much better services than any french minority in any other province (except New Brunswick of course, because this is the only officially bilingual province).
-The PQ has proven to be a very efficient party in power in the past, at least not worst than the present liberals.
-Jacques Parizeau statement after 1995 referundum was fucken right but politically not acceptable...
-BQ is a unique party in the sense that it wants to win but don't expect to be in power. Most BQ candidates probably unsconciously wish not to be elected, Duceppe more than any other.
Try to understand: ils se sont fait prendre à leur propre jeu...et le jeu a trop duré!
Le meilleur service que l'on peut rendre aux bloquistes, c'est de ne pas voter pour eux. Le meilleur service que l'on peut rendre au mouvement indépendantiste c'est de pas voter pour le Bloc, pour ramener la cause là ou elle doit être débattue, au Québec, pas à Ottawa. Pour enlever aux québécois mous cette illusion qu'il y a quelqu'un à Ottawa pour défendre leurs intérêts et pour rester à jamais les couilles molles et pas capable d'écrire ''Oui'' le jour du prochain référendum...Comme dirait Gilles Vigneault: un peuple si fort si combatif, un peuple capable d'affronter les pires hivers et ..pas capable de signer un ''oui''...Think about all this my friends...

 

[JH Fan]

Here's a good article for those who still thinks Quebec is just another province like any other in Canada.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/federal-vote-mean-long-term-change-ottawa-1896-090011100.html

At the national level there have been three major realignments in Canada's past: the elections of 1896, 1984 and 1993, according to political historian John Duffy. Those elections not only marked changes in government but also the rise and fall, over a longer period, of major political parties.

Each of those shifts — the dawn of Liberal dominance under Wilfrid Laurier, the Mulroney landslide that ended a century of Liberal hegemony in French Canada, and the emergence of a balkanized Parliament fractured along regional lines — shared one common epicentre: Quebec.

"The realignments of this country tend to happen when Quebec picks a new lane. That appears to be what's happening here."

He cites past examples of how Quebec flexed its political power and exerted influence throughout Confederation.


"Having Quebec more directly engaged will change everything."

...any orange tide tonight should not be over-interpreted as a clear win for Canadian federalism. Quebec, after all, will continue electing sovereigntist MPs; the NDP, for its part, is relying heavily on promises to nationalists that might prove controversial elsewhere in the country.


Thus the fame question over and over again "What does Quebec wants ?"

And for those who still argue...
"What does Québec Want?" was first quite simply wanting all powers provinces had in the early agreement of 1867 returned: "World War is over" they said and repeated in the early '20's. Astonishing perhaps, but "English Canada" only began to listen in the early '60's and then only after Jean Lesage, Premier of Québec, unequivocally affirmed during the election campaign "Maîtres chez nous". "What does Québec Want?" was now quite simply wanting a re-visiting of the first Constitution and its amendments in order to re-consider and re-align our hundred year old agreements. Unfortunately, that was not enough because "What does Québec Want" kept being repeated, all over the place, to the point where les Canadiens français du Québec framed Québecois, a distinctive self-assertion to replace Canadiens français; it was now obvious to a vast number of them that Canada was no longer their country. Incidentally the small minority in Saskatchewan immediately followed suit with fransaskois to replace franco-saskatchewanais...which is interesting indeed, because French-speaking Canadians had always referred to themselves as Canadiens français.

Have fun... yeah ! I said it !

 

[Techman]

And.....the Bloc is TOAST!!!!!

JH, I guess the question of what Quebec wants has been answered!

 

[wasisname]

A special message from the rest of Canada to Gilles Duceppe.


<img>http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/15/simpsons_nelson_haha2.jpg</img>

Damn disappearing insert photo icons.

At least the hot anglo barmaid won her seat. Too bad May got in, all the debates need is more discussion on how great rainbows and unicorns are.

 

[Monsieur-Du-Q]

Oh! Oh! pas de commentaires sur les élections!

Visiblement tout le monde est sur son cul face aux résultats des élections au Québec.
Jack is a huge winner but what a responsability. According to his Québec representation (69 deputies out of 104) he is going to speak more french than english in the house of commons. Will he do so, I doubt it.
Donc le Québec, les québécois sans se consulter et de manière spontanée ont démontré qu'ils étaient différents du reste des canadiens en votant pour un tiers parti et en le faisant l'opposition officielle.
Les québécois ont décidé d'utiliser le NPD pour se faire valoir et non pas pour en faire leur porte-parole. Les quatre prochaines années montreront que le mouvement indépendantiste sera le grand gagnant de ces élections car le NPD sera incapable de représenter l'unicité et les aspirations des québécois et renforcera l'option indépendantiste maintenant concentrée au Québec et à l'Assemblée Nationale. Tous les députés défaits du Bloc seront maintenant rapatriés dans les circonscriptions provinciales et renforceront l'idée de faire du Québec un pays.
I have to admit that I was wrong about my predictions and also I have to admit that I went to vote...But I vote for the NDP, so I feel tonight as a proud québecois who rejected that majority governement we do have now in Ottawa. As most québécois I feel very sorry, disturbed and worried to have that right wing red neck Prime Minister with a majority governement...God bless Canada for the next 4 years! I have never been so disappointed to be canadian...Je n'ai jamais été aussi fier d'être québécois...

 

[Doc Holliday]

What is sad for Quebec is that by voting mostly NDP, they have fewer representation in the federal government. Even less than before!

Stephen Harper now has the proof that he doesn't need Quebec to be elected to a majority government. Not good for Quebec!

Look out, i can hear whispers of an upcoming referendum in the coming years!

 

[Doc Holliday]

The Bloc BARELY got 4 seats. Barely!

Gilles Duceppe didn't even win his own riding! LOL!!!!!!!

Bye-bye Mr. Duceppe!!!!!! Bye-bye Bloc Quebecois!!!!!

Good f&$&# riddance if you ask me!!

"Vivre le Quebec!! Vivre le Canada!"