Elections: MERB poll results and before/after elections discussions.

[CLOUD 500]

Take a history course Cloud500... you'll understand a lot more on what's going on really !
When english only speaking (and others who speaks only one language) will have to face the freigh train which is Chinese culture you'll be the first one to scream for help in order to potect your culture.

Culture isn't only about a language it's about how you think, how you see things.
Anyone who feel 'forced' to learn another language is the comon racist who can't see the need for people to open themselves to other cultures.

If everyone on earth was like all of those who only speaks english because its 'easier' we wouldn't have any trade going.

English is far more powerful than French is at this moment in time. It was the opposite in Europe 2 centuries ago but since mid 19th English has been the language of choice to trade. Any fool french speaking only or any other immigrants should know this. But that's why we didn't have to protect english.

Protecting languages is protecting cultures and by definition protecting minorities which in turn makes this world something else than the same sh*t A Mari Usque Ad Mare !

We in Quebec have done what we could to protect French despite not English Canada but really Americans who are far more better in business, far more powerful and far more in numbers.

And we have done very good despite all the opposition and the cheap shots.
Thus if electing Bloc has worked to finally make Ottawa admit that Quebec isn't just a fr*akin province then it worked !

If we go for NDP now and dump the Bloc, it's because we feel it is a better way to 'Bloc' conservatives who clearly never gave a sh*t about Canada being bilingual !

As for Quebec having a lot of xenophobe, English only speaking you should take a good look in the mirror. Anyone living in Canada that boast overseas being a bilingual country but ain't ready to make it so 'd'un Ocean a l'autre' is a pure hypocrite.

Cuze if i weren't for Quebec all the other french minorities would have disappeared by now.

There was a deal in 1867 broken time and time again on Quebec's back and Canada should start clearing' it's sh*t before telling other countries how to manage their own instead of hoping that immigration will overcome french by stating that it's now a Multi-lingual country.

Anyway have fun again with this election... oh ! did I hear that the changes in Quebec for NDP could now change everything for Canada ?
Funny isn't it ? looks like it's gonna take Quebec to change this situation of going nowhere in a federal point of view once again in Canada... what a f*cking joke !

I understand better then you think. But consider this? If French Quebecors have to enforce their language and culture to protect it because they will loose that is entirely their problem. Do you think Chinese people will ever stop speaking their native language or if Indian people will? You are implying that if we do not protect it the French will disappear? That is the problem of French Quebecors. Enforcing language is not the way and is clearly xenophobic. The separatists are all about intolerance and assimilation of other cultures. I think you should take a look at the mirror. Lol!

But the real issue is not about protecting the French it is about making it the dominant language and culture. Again as I have said the separatists are about intolerance. They want to assimilate every other culture and make everyone speak French and adopt Quebecor culture. If you know anything about history read up again about the FLQ and their actions. Need I say more?

Oh yea, you guys can try to separate from Canada and break the confederation. It has been tried many times and each time it failed. Accept it that the majority do not support this idea and it never will be. So give up the lost cause because it is just that a LOST CAUSE.

P.S.: I am very happy that the NDP is gaining popularity. But I will never vote conservative and NEVER Bloc Quebecois.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I totally agree with everything Techman wrote in this thread.

 

[protagoras]

Flying to Brazil, Tuesday. It means that I won't be home for election day.

As I consider myself a good citizen, I cast my vote yesterday. I think that's important to vote because it's the only way that we can express ourselves (even if something it doesn't really make a difference). But this year I was very determined to vote because I just want to get rid of Harper and the red neck mentaly that he represents. I cannot stand the Conservative Party anymore: they have done too much harm to this country.

I travel a lot abroad and now when I tell people aborad that I am Canadian I only hear rcomplaints about Canada. When the Liberals were in charge, we were welcomed all around the planet. This era seems bygone...

This year I voted for NDP because I think that only Layton can offer a solid opposition to Harper. Too bad, but we're living in a very sad country. It will be my first trip to Brazil since Dilma's election (in November 2010). I'm eager to see what is the feeling down there since Lula is gone.

 

[RedRocks]

It appears that your implication is that Francophones make more of an effort.

Hey, anon_vlad, you mistaken my point.
I was only answering to the lame comment of Techman saying : You're right about Québec being the most bilingual province. What you fail to note is that most of those bilingual citizens do not have French as a mother tongue.
And actually, strictly percentage wise, non-Francophone in Québec do make more effort to be bilingual.
We got to give them that and it is all to their honor.
On the other hand, Francophone in Québec do make more of an effort to be bilingual than any other in the rest of Canada.
All in all, my point is served...Québec is the most bilingual province by far in shear numbers, and even more so if we look at government services provided in both official languages.
Hence, we have no lessons to receive in how we treat our minorities.
We do respect their language and culture far better than anywhere else in North America.

Hey, JH Fan, I totally agree with you and I do appreciate a keen mind.
Unfortunately, the cultural aspect has been at the center of most clash between Québec and Canada.
For instant, Canada favors a more centralized government, while Québec would prefer a more decentralized government.
This tendency comes from two aspects, actually.
Of course, Québec needs to protect it's culture and thus needs more control over it's future.
But also, it is a more profound tendency from our latin background.
France did have a revolution and done away with nobility, while England (and Canada) are still very much attached to it.
Maybe this example is a little far fetched, it's the one that came to mind.
But I'm sure that I could find many others.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I think that only Layton can offer a solid opposition to Harper.

I totally agree. I wouldn't be surprised if the NDP gathered more votes than the Liberals in the next election. What the Liberals need is solid, respected leadership. Stephane Dion wasn't teh answer, neither is Michael Ignatief. Justin Trudeau isn't the answer either. By the way, i'm not saying that Stephen Harper is any better than the people i mentionned. A cow on my uncle's farm has more charisma than Harper.....

Too bad, but we're living in a very sad country.

You'd rather be living in a place like Libya?

 

[protagoras]

Of course not. All things considered Canada is still a good place to live. Unfortunately what is missing here is a national project that could attract everybody. This is maybe one of the main problem of multiculturalism there is not anymore a common bound between all Canadians (Québécois) ncluded. The society is too much fragmented and this hinders the possibility to have a feeling of identity that could be shared by every Canadians.

I'm in my 50's and I remember with sadness how was our country 40 or even 30 years ago.There were a lot of projects going on, everybody was thriving to acheive a modern and free society. I have the feeling that today we are going backwards. Aren't we? Isn't it time to put our country on it's track and work together to build a better society for everybody, not only for the CEO's and the money hunger shareholders.

This is supposed to be the country of freedom and opportunity. With Harper it is not anymore. Give back to the people some hope in order to dissipate this atmosphere of political cynism.

 

[CLOUD 500]

my opinion
The liberal party has too many bad memories for me.Of all the politicians I have hated number 1 has to be Brian Mulroney with a close secound Michael Ignatieff.
Conservative Party with recent skeletins in their closet ,Harper at the controls.Harper to me is a pathalogical lair.

Was Brian Mulroney not part of the Progressive Conservative party now merged as the Conservative party? I always said that the conservatives mess up the economy.

BLoc some old song and danse separation,usa is going down the toilet economically wise and we are not so bad, imagine separation and where would all the money come from and how much would we have to suffer and probably for our lifetime.

I do not see the point of the Bloc. Wasted tax dollars to keep this party which will never gain a majority. It is also absurd to have a federal party that clearly has its own provincial interests.

Leaves the ndp and actually I like jack layton better than the rest of the clowns<face it they all are corrupot liars you have to find the better of the worst.

I like the NDP they are more left wing then the rest of the parties. I hate the conservatives and they will never get my vote. They only support the rich CEOs and shareholders. Their policies favor the wealthy few and would rather spend money on the military then more important things like education, etc... I always said to vote for the politician who makes the least promises as the one who makes the most will be the one to disappoint the most.

 

[JH Fan]

Sure why not. If that is the case I am sure Montreal can separate from Quebec and join Canada. But it will never happen. The majority no longer support this it has been tried many times. The majority want to be part of Canada.

Then you come back to my argument which is : the only way Quebec got to be recognized as a Nation and not as a single province (only defined by boundaries) as been to put pressure on the federal gov. in Ottawa. Now the hole world knows and understand this. Y jousent pas a l'autruche when they come in Quebec by thinking the only difference is we speak french because of a stupid 101 bill.

And it's not with either Conservatives or Liberals that this has been achieved. They had so many years, decades to fix this and instead they pushed for division among nations.

They are the real separatists who wans to rule by division. Specilly conservatives who keep going back in deficits over and over again, creating more taxes while Liberals gets elected promising they will take it out, bluntly lying to the Nation. And I should pay for their golden Ottawa pension ? Big f*kin' joke !

Now if time has come to move on to NDP then so be it but anyone would be a fool to think Quebec and First Nations will suddenly embrace Canada (the way Ottawa's Federalists see it - as endless pockets to cash in) without fighting for their rights as First Nations.

Here's one who isn't going for their big fr*kin' pension plan like Conservatives and Liberals !
http://romeosaganash.ndp.ca/

 

[teh]

Canada was meant to be a confederation, not a country with a centralized gov. that always grow bigger at the expense of the provinces.

con·fed·er·a·tion

An organization that consists of a number of parties or groups united in an alliance or league
- a confederation of trade unions

A more or less permanent union of countries with some or most political power vested in a central authority
- Canada became a confederation in 1867

 

[teh]

Canada's still going in deficit despite having the Tarsands, despite all the ressources that we have all over the place.)

The tar sands exist in the province of Alberta. Both the federal government and the Alberta government get direct revenue as a result of that resource.

Prior to the election of the present Conservative Party as the leading minority government in power in Ottawa, the GST was at 7% and the Government of Canada ran consecutive surpluses for many years. But in their wish to get elected they offered & delivered to the population of Canada a 2% reduction on the GST rate to the present 5%.

I don't know how much you earn per year, so you do the arithmetic as to how much that 2% amounts for you and who is in reality representing you.

 

[Royal]

What, conservatives wanna raise taxes? Last I heard, they're the party who's always proposed less taxes...

I'm not sure why people bash against the PCC so much (it's not like their politics are unattractive from a realists perspective) and I'm not sure why some of you don't like/vote for Harper based on his charisma? That's not a good reason to vote against the conservatives, if you vote against them then it has to be cause you don't like the politics of the party. Cause everyone can play the "looks" game: Jack has tons of charisma but he doesn't look very prime-ministerial, he's like a beer buddy, could you see a guy like that ruling a country?

The conservatives only have rightist politics going for them, which is legistimate. If you're a leftist, good for u, and most right wings in Canada will respect your leftist view; but somehow, a majority of leftists demonize the right; it's kinda irrespectful... Its the same as those loonies on the street putting Fuhrer mustachios on Obama's face, it shows a total lack of rationality and understanding. It's a leap towards easy labeling. Who here read the electoral platform for each party and took time to inform themselves. The Majority of people won't do that, they won't make their own opinion, they'll just read or listen to a prebiased journalistic source and go on with it... That is what is trully sad in today's society. Let's not kid ourselves, the right is a vision of the world which is more and more popular everywhere... Most people like a smaller bureaucracy, lessr taxes, etc.. It's appealing

As for Quebec: language laws are fine, there's nothing wrong with that. Also, multi-culturalism does not work (so says France, Germany, and Australia). The right path is interculturalism now.. And so more and more nations agree. The west should be dominated by western culture, and although we should allow for everyone to retain their roots, we ought try to westernize everyone who want to live in our civilization. And everyone here will agree!!! Right?

 

[teh]

Furthermore, it is true that Québec receives a little more than it give (about 2.1 billon – dixit Statistic Canada).

Quebec and Manitoba will receive the most from equalization payments in the 2010-2011 year.[3]
However, per capita, PEI benefits the most. In the 2010-2011 year, the following provinces will receive equalization payments:[3]

Quebec ($8.552 billion)
Manitoba ($1.826 billion)
New Brunswick ($1.581 billion)
Nova Scotia ($1.11 billion)
Ontario ($972 million)
Prince Edward Island ($330 million)

The following provinces will not qualify for equalization payments in 2010-2011:

Alberta
Saskatchewan
Newfoundland and Labrador
British Columbia

NB: Perhaps you are referring to the present ongoing discussions between Ottawa & Quebec governments regarding the never before agreement on the harmonization of the sales taxes ? Which by the way the Province of Quebec is reportedly requesting a 2 billion payment.

P.S. You might want to tone down the over dramatic, over-reactionary rhetoric and try to stay or stick with the facts as they are and not as some wish them to be.

 

[Techman]

: the only way Quebec got to be recognized as a Nation and not as a single province (only defined by boundaries) as been to put pressure on the federal gov. in Ottawa. Now the hole world knows and understand this...

Once again, you're wrong. No one has, or ever will, recognize Quebec as a Nation. What happened was that the Quebecois people were recognized as a nation. there is one hell of a big difference, and legally what was recognized carries no more weight than the Red Sox Nation. And yes, the whole world knows this, other than yourself it seems. And please stop grouping the First Nations people with Quebec separatists. That does them a huge disservice as they have no love for Separatists and have said on many an occasion that in the case of Quebec separation, their territories will remain allied with Canada.

And you spoke earlier of centralized power and how Quebec is against that. They are against it only as far as belonging to Canada. If they separate, they will have no ties at all to Canada and will also have a centralized power base in their capital city of Quebec. I am quite sure that they would also have no problem with it if the capital of Canada were Quebec City instead of Ottawa.

JH, you are a perfect example of the Quebecois lobster that Parizeau was waiting to throw into the pot. You believe whatever your leaders tell you and look no farther for the truth. Much of your argument comes straight out of the PQ propaganda handbook. You speak of investment in R&D, well where will the money come from? Quebec as a separate country will be teetering on bankruptcy for a generation. They will have to earn their world credit rating, no longer able to piggy back on Canada. There will be no money to invest and few companies to invest it in. There will be no money to offer companies to remain here. No money for grants or other incentives. It will be a long hard road.

 

[Royal]

True, if Qc separates, it'll become the 3rd most indebted country in the world with a debt worth 110% of it's PIB if I remember correctly

Oohlala, cela voudra dire que certains mangerons d'la misère noire pour souper

 

[teh]

Has for the debt, of course we would pay our fair share, we are not savages has you seem to think.

The Canadian national debt will reach $562,881,000,000, (that reads like the following, 562 billion and 881 million dollars) according to the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. That's more than $16,000 owed by every man, woman and child in the country.

The population of Quebec will reach 7,987,191 by July 1st, 2011 which calculates it's ownership of the national debt to

$127,795,056,000.00 (that reads like the following, 127 billion and 795 million plus various small change) for Quebec's share. Although the generally accepted rule is that Quebec's fair share of the national debt amounts to 25% of the total which would then make it $140,720,250,000.00 but let's not quibble over a paltry $12,925,194,000.00

 

[Royal]

Why would anyone hate the PM who was elected with the greatest majority known in Canadian history (Mulroney) and who had the brilliant Meech accord idea!! He was the best. If your pro Quebec, you should love Mulroney!!

 

[teh]

I write bad, obviously.
1st statement was I Hate the liberal party.
2nd was, most hated politician, was mulroney( and yes he was conservative).
3rd statement ,I hate politician in 2nd place Michael Ignatieff( who happens to be liberal).

Hate ? Sounds like an angry statement or expression. !

Do you even know anything about Ignatieff ? I'm not suggesting you should like him or any of his proposals.
Do you know what he proposes or stands for ?

 

[CLOUD 500]

Then you come back to my argument which is : the only way Quebec got to be recognized as a Nation and not as a single province (only defined by boundaries) as been to put pressure on the federal gov. in Ottawa. Now the hole world knows and understand this. Y jousent pas a l'autruche when they come in Quebec by thinking the only difference is we speak french because of a stupid 101 bill.

And it's not with either Conservatives or Liberals that this has been achieved. They had so many years, decades to fix this and instead they pushed for division among nations.

They are the real separatists who wans to rule by division. Specilly conservatives who keep going back in deficits over and over again, creating more taxes while Liberals gets elected promising they will take it out, bluntly lying to the Nation. And I should pay for their golden Ottawa pension ? Big f*kin' joke !

Now if time has come to move on to NDP then so be it but anyone would be a fool to think Quebec and First Nations will suddenly embrace Canada (the way Ottawa's Federalists see it - as endless pockets to cash in) without fighting for their rights as First Nations.

Here's one who isn't going for their big fr*kin' pension plan like Conservatives and Liberals !
http://romeosaganash.ndp.ca/

There you go back again to the same argument. Quebec will never be recognized as a nation. The idea has been tried and it failed each time. Not to mention the popularity of this idea has decreased considerably. It is not going to happen ever. And you guys want to break the confederation just because of the language? You seperatists are very intolerant to different languages and cultures.

Furthermore I want to reiterate that this has nothing to do with protecting a culture. It is about the French language dominating all other languages and Quebec assimilating all other cultures to the Quebecor way of life. You believe in PQ propaganda. Lol!

As for First Nations there is a huge difference between them and the separatists. First Nations people are not forcing everyone to speak their language nor are they assimilating all other cultures to their own. Neither have they expressed any interest in separating from Canada. Major difference.

As for ruling by division. I believe all governments rule like that. I never heard of a decentralized government and I doubt such a system could really work. Do you really believe if Quebec separates that the government will not be centralized in Quebec City? It definitely will be. It will be ruled by division based on the cities in this province.

If Quebec does separate the country will go bankrupt. Quebec has the one of the highest taxes of the country. The provincial sales tax is three percentage points higher then the federal tax. Quebec is the one that raised their taxes for 2011 not Canada. No business would want to invest in this province. Why? A. Very high taxes B. No business wants to be forced to operate in another language. This country would turn into a ghosttown. What do you think happened in the late 70's? There was a major exodus of people to the various other provinces and many businesses moved their headquarters to Toronto. And for many years Quebec lost more people then people that came into this province. Still want a Nation? Stop listening to PQ propaganda. Do not be naive.

 

[gugu]

A lot of graduates move to Ontario or the US mainly because they paid a lot more then in Quebec and also because Quebec is very highly taxed. You know I lived in Toronto for over eight years and I meet a lot of Quebecors living there. But in the late 70's Quebec experienced a mass exodus of people moving to other provinces and a lot of businesses moved their head offices to Toronto. I do not blame them. Who wants to be forced to speak French?

The exodus of the late 70’s had nothing to do with taxation levels. It was the result of a fear campaign orchestrated by elements of the business and political community.

You are right about that but no one is being forced to speak First Nations language or being assimilated into their culture neither do they have the need to do so.

The ability of the Native people to protect their culture is not the result of any acceptance of multiculturalism or adherence to the society of rights promoted in the Trudeau year. Trudeau wanted to abolish the Indian status in Canada. Native people have regrouped and faugh for their rights, just like the Québécois did.

Sure Montreal is multi-cultural. But Quebec has a lot of xenophobic people (separatists) and there is a lot of intolerance to other cultures and languages especially English.

I always find it funny to see xenophobes and intolerants people associated exclusively to separatists. Of course, some separatists are xenophobes, intolerant and ignorant, just like some federalists are.

Why does Quebec have to impose their language and their culture to protect it?

Do you oppose the obligation imposed on immigrants to send their kids to French schools?

Do you think the immigrants who come to this country stop speaking their language and forget their culture.

Does any political party suggest that it should be the case?

But consider this? If French Quebecors have to enforce their language and culture to protect it because they will loose that is entirely their problem.

True, it is entirely their problem. And it is why they decided to legislate instead of having the federal governement impose multiculturalism. If you vote for any major political party next week, you will be voting for a party that accepts the right of Québec to legislate on these matters and accepts the fact that Québec imposes that immigrants send their children to french schools.

Do you think Chinese people will ever stop speaking their native language or if Indian people will?

The fact is that through intercultural marriage (you don’t oppose that, do you ?) some immigrants sadly choose not to transmit their language to their kids. It happens here just like it happens in the rest of Canada. Now, are going to tell me that the Bloc is promoting that?

They want to assimilate every other culture and make everyone speak French and adopt Quebecor culture.

Show me only one article of the Bloc’s program promoting assimilation. Imposing the learning of French to immigrants’s kids is helping them to be part of our society, not at all negating their cultural heritage, even less asking them to forget it. That’s called integration, not assimilation.

 

[EagerBeaver]

which of these political parties is most beholden to a policy of strong ties to the USA as opposed to isolationism?