Gilles Duceppe

[spin]

The Bloc was the best thing ever to happen to the Liberals

Without doubt, I think Duceppe put up an impressive perfomance in last night's debate. I can also fully understand his desire to punish the Liberals.
That said, isn't a vote for the Bloc indirectly a vote for Harper ? ( who in my opinion does not really care for Quebec as much as Martin does. )

Btw I am not a shill for the Liberal Party in case there is a misunderstanding

I will take this one somewhat bizarre step further, IMHO the creation of the Bloc was a Liberal victory guarantee

The Bloc will take approx. 50 seats in the province of Quebec with the Liberal's taking the remaining 20 or so - That leaves both the Conservatives and NDP almost without a chance of a Federal victory. The Bloc obviously can not win as they only run in one provence BUT by NO party can win without winning any seats in Quebec - one has to assume that if there were no Bloc the Liberals would not sweep Quebec, by the Bloc taking the ridings that may have simlply voted anti-liberal they then cause a defacto Liberal sweep of Quebec (Yes the Bloc will win 50 seats but those 50 don't really count as those will be their only wins) thus giving the Liberals approx. 20 more seats in Quebec more than the Conservatives before the election even starts.

All ridings in Quebec not voting Bloc will vote Liberal as a way to "Block the Bloc" - Keep in mind that the Conservatives don't help their cause with Harper as their leader - like it or not here in Quebec we vote for leaders from Quebec (see Trudeau, Mulroney, Chretien, Martin).

In conclusion, the existence of the Bloc = 0 seats for the Conservatives (without a leader from Quebec) in Quebec, making it next to impossible to win a federal election - Has any party ever won a Federal election without winning any seats in Quebec?

This may sound absurd but the Bloc was the best thing to ever happen to the Liberal Party of Canada.

 

[Techman]

Miko, if real separatists are not voting for the Bloc, who are they voting for? Not the Liberals. So if you remove the total number of Bloc votes and Liberal votes from the total count in Quebec, there must not be very many real separatists here.

spin, if the Bloc didn't exist the majority of their ridings would go to the liberals. The Conservatives still would not succeed here. This would give the Liberal party anywhere from 30 to 50 extra seats which would guarantee them a majority gov't. The existance of the Bloc is no help to the Liberal party.

 

[StripperLover]

spin,

one has to assume that if there were no Bloc the Liberals would not sweep Quebec, by the Bloc taking the ridings that may have simlply voted anti-liberal they then cause a defacto Liberal sweep of Quebec (Yes the Bloc will win 50 seats but those 50 don't really count as those will be their only wins) thus giving the Liberals approx. 20 more seats in Quebec more than the Conservatives before the election even starts.

If there was no Bloc, who do you think the Quebec voters would vote for, if not the Liberals ? The Conservatives ? You must be kidding me !

The Conservatives are idiots for not persuading Bernard Lord to go for the leadership of their party as he would have swept Quebec & demolished the Bloc. They don't seem to understand that bees (if you understand what I mean) are not electable in Quebec & the Greater Metro TO, where the majority of this country's seats are.

 

[StripperLover]

miko,

The members of the Bloc only exist to serve their pensions, period !

If any of them would stand up & state publicly in the Commons that they would not accept a single dime of pension from Canada, then & only then would I respect their bs asses.

The lies that are perpetrated against their own people by them, is worse than disgusting.

 

[spin]

If there was no Bloc, who do you think the Quebec voters would vote for, if not the Liberals ? The Conservatives ? You must be kidding me !

SL, I think Quebec voters may vote for the Conservatives IF you also take into accout what else I said:

Keep in mind that the Conservatives don't help their cause with Harper as their leader - like it or not here in Quebec we vote for leaders from Quebec (see Trudeau, Mulroney, Chretien, Martin).

So SL, with Harper as a leader, no I agree Quebecer's would not vote Conservative, BUT with a strong Quebecois leader (Anglo or Franco) and without the Bloc in the way - Yes I think they would get some seats here.

Remember Brians 2 terms...

They don't seem to understand that bees (if you understand what I mean) are not electable in Quebec & the Greater Metro TO, where the majority of this country's seats are.

I understand and agree.

The members of the Bloc only exist to serve their pensions, period !

If any of them would stand up & state publicly in the Commons that they would not accept a single dime of pension from Canada, then & only then would I respect their bs asses.

The lies that are perpetrated against their own people by them, is worse than disgusting.

Well said.

spin, if the Bloc didn't exist the majority of their ridings would go to the liberals. The Conservatives still would not succeed here. This would give the Liberal party anywhere from 30 to 50 extra seats which would guarantee them a majority gov't. The existance of the Bloc is no help to the Liberal party.

Techman, this is only true with the Conservative's current leader, and maybe Harper is their leader because they have given up on Quebec due to the Bloc presence (dumb idea but maybe true). If you eliminate the Bloc and reform the Conservatives, we would have a race again.

By the way, Dear Preston Manning, you sir have caused as much damage to this country as the Bloc has - What in the world were you thinking when you thought that Canada could support 2 right wing parties??? The only thing you succeeded in doing was to split the right wing vote! I know I'm opening myself up to some pretty heavy hate mail here but, I am an Anlgophone from Quebec and even I won't vote for a Prime Minister from Western Canada!

 

[StripperLover]

spin,

I contend that Brian Mulroney was a blip on the political map of this country & a bs one at that.

The Conservatives consistently err in that they don't realize the bees aren't electable in Quebec & Ontario.

The west can stomp & scream as much as they want to but the fact of the matter is that the bulk of this country exists in Quebec & Ontario, as do the seats in parliament.

 

[Techman]

Miko, when the Bloc was first formed they publicly stated that they would refuse any pension from the federal gov't. When they realized that separation was not in the immediate future they went back on that decision. That was lie number 1 As far as Belinda Stronach is concerned, or any other candidate for that matter, I am much less concerned with the languages they speak than I am with their ability to make Canada a prosperous country. We really have to get past this idea that someone has to be perfectly bilingual to be an effective PM. It is only in Quebec that this becomes a problem. Like it or not, English is the major language of business in the world. And running a country is very much a business. If Quebec ever does, by some miracle, achieve separation, you can be damn sure that it's first PM, President or Exhalted Poobah will speak English when dealing with the US.

For anyone who caught the English debate, did you notice that when same sex marriage was brought up, Duceppe said that Canadians had already decided and we can't have a vote on the subject every 6 months. Amazing that no one called him on the fact that in Quebec you can have referendums until you get the result you desire.

 

[spin]

For anyone who caught the English debate, did you notice that when same sex marriage was brought up, Duceppe said that Canadians had already decided and we can't have a vote on the subject every 6 months. Amazing that no one called him on the fact that in Quebec you can have referendums until you get the result you desire.

HA! Well said Techman - I yelled the same thing at my television during the debate, I couldn't believe he said it.

 

[moliere]

C'est certain que Gilles Duceppe est un politicien propre et qu'il le sera toujours puisqu'il ne prendra jamais le pouvoir. J'ai déjà voté pour le Bloc mais plus maintenant, c'est devenu une gang de ''chiâleux'' professionnels.

 

[StripperLover]

femaleluver,

Money talks & bs walks

Political parties pay prospective candidates to become leaders of their parties with more than healthy retirement payment packages aside from the government salaries that they receive.

 

[StripperLover]

femaleluver,

What does the quote of mine that you chose to submit in your post above have to do with what you wrote ?

My statement was in response to yours regarding the failure of the Conservatives to get Bernard Lord to enter into their leadership race.

 

[StripperLover]

JacknJill,

Who cares about Duceppe & what's the point about this man in Quebec or outside.

The only reason why he won the French debate is that it's his mother tongue & not Martin's. He talks in vague generalities & his bottom line is nothing because that's what someone who has no knowledge or real power does.

 

[SIMPEL]

a propos de Duceppe et du bloc...

Et oui les québécois sont parfois stupide... on n'est pas satisfait de notre sort, mais on vote pour un parti qui ne prendra jamais le pouvoir.(en effet c'est la meilleur façon de laisser le pouvoir aux autres provinces) Et de ce fait le bloc ne sera jamais confronté au problèmes que l'on a vus surgir lorsque les libéraux ou les conservateurs étaient au pouvoir.

Je ne veux pas défendre leurs mauvaises actions, mais qui n'as pas vus un collègue de travail abuser de son pouvoir ou gonfler artificiellement une note de dépense. Plus on as de pouvoir, plus les abus sont énormes.

On crie au scandale a cause des commandites, mais personne ne parle des dépenses énormes qui sont reliées aux actions des gouvernements séparatistes. N'est-ce pas aussi l'argent des contribuables.

Le parti PQ encourage les fusions des villes, mais veut être maitre de son destin. Moi aussi je veux être maitre de ma destinée. Je suis pour le droit de rouler a 300 km/h sur l'autoroute, l'eutanasie,la pendaison, le droit de fumer dans un lieu public, de prendre le volant avec les facultées affaiblies par l'alcool ou la drogue, etc...

Mais non, nous vivons avec d'autres personnes dans une société cilivisée. Ce qui implique que l'on doit tenir compte de L'opinion des autres.

D'un autre coté soyons réaliste l"idée de l'indépendance est parfois tentante, mais est-ce que je ferais confiance au bloquistes ou au péquistes pour réaliser l'indépendance du Québec? Non, en aucun cas. Si je ne me trompe pas est-ce que les bloquistes n'ont pas déja déclaré: On veut réaliser seulement un mandat pour promouvoir nos attentes vis a vis des autres canadiens, et oui le pouvoir corromp.

Autrement dit le bloc n'as plus de place comme parti d'opposition au fédéral, par contre on devrait reporter le débat sur l'indépendance a sa vraie place soit sur la scène politique du Québec. Et on devrait peut-être scinder le parti québécois en deux soit un parti d'opposition (ou de pouvoir) et un vrai parti séparatiste. A ce moment on pourrait mieux défénir combiens de gens votent pour la séparation du Québec et combiens contre le pouvoir au libéraux.

Pour reprendre une phrase célèbre : tout le monde a droit a mon opinion. Ce qui ne veut pas dire que vous devez la partager.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Stephen Harper

Being American I am not as well versed in Canadian politics as some others in this thread, but tonight on C span I watched both Paul Martin and Stephen Harper interviewed by Paul va Dusen (this was taped on 12/22/05). Martin mentioned that there are some important debates upcoming in Montreal in the next few weeks.

Harper, who is a younger guy than what I had imagined, said that the reason for the rise in separatism in Quebec is the corruption of the liberal party in Quebec. I am curious to know exactly what the corruption is that he was talking about. I should note that Harper had high praise for the Quebec premiere whose name I believe is Cheray. He said that Cheray is the greatest federalist Quebec has ever had in the position.

Can anyone expound on the corruption that Harper was talking about?

 

[StripperLover]

EB,

Read this first & the accompanying Gomery Report's link on that page.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/groupaction/

After this ask any questions & you'll received 32 million opinions.

 

[eastender]

Gomery Inquiry

Being American I am not as well versed in Canadian politics as some others in this thread, but tonight on C span I watched both Paul Martin and Stephen Harper interviewed by Paul va Dusen (this was taped on 12/22/05). Martin mentioned that there are some important debates upcoming in Montreal in the next few weeks.

Harper, who is a younger guy than what I had imagined, said that the reason for the rise in separatism in Quebec is the corruption of the liberal party in Quebec. I am curious to know exactly what the corruption is that he was talking about. I should note that Harper had high praise for the Quebec premiere whose name I believe is Cheray. He said that Cheray is the greatest federalist Quebec has ever had in the position.

Can anyone expound on the corruption that Harper was talking about?

Go to:
www.gomery.ca


By the way it is Jean Charest - elected as a Federal mp in the first Mulroney
government.Almost immediately got into trouble for calling a sentencing judge to help a client.

Bounced around federal politics then joined the provincial Liberal party,elected leader then premier in the last election.Hard pressed to think of any contribution made by the man - mishandled the various hospital projects by trying to steer them in the direction favoured by cronies.

 

[StripperLover]

EB,

What Daringly has omitted to mention, was that ALL parties Federally & Provincially in power in the last 10 years (Federal Liberals, Provincial Parti Quebecois & Liberals) were involved in kickbacks. It's plain ignorance to think they they weren't.

I have personally seen the open corruption at work in a local Montreal eatery, one dirty set of politicians after another & even those who are still on the wishing edge of power being received by a multitude of companies & consultants who weren't dolling out domino chips.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Okay, I had heard about the Gomery Commission but I didn't know if Harper was referring to this or something else. It seems ironic that these taxpayer monies that were supposed to be getting used to promote Canadian unity ended up lining the pockets of liberal party supporters, thereby creating an even greater rise in separatist feelings.

Harper sounded like he wanted to throw some bones to Charest in such a way as to appease the separatists, that's basically what I was hearing from him. When Van Husen pressed Harper as to whether he was changing his tune from past policies he had enunciated, Harper said that his position on Quebec had "evolved" over time. He struck me as a very smart man who can think on his feet.

 

[eastender]

Dubya

Harper sounded like he wanted to throw some bones to Charest in such a way as to appease the separatists, that's basically what I was hearing from him. When Van Husen pressed Harper as to whether he was changing his tune from past policies he had enunciated, Harper said that his position on Quebec had "evolved" over time. He struck me as a very smart man who can think on his feet.

Smart as in Dubya or Bertrand Russell?

 

[StripperLover]

Daringly,

Your statement said that the firms that had connections to the Liberal party & you mentioned nothing of the monies that went to the other side of the proverbial bs debate in this country which by it's very omission suggests that the PQ weren't receiving money on their own.

Furthermore, you also stated

The liberal party give out a lot of tax payers money to companies for advertising and they just basically pocketed the money

which also suggests that the whole Liberal Party of Canada was on the take or the party itself rather than a few Liberal supporters, an appointed official & an elected member.

It's clear from your description or statement who or what truth you perscribe to & it's that very chosen avenue that I took issue with.