Hamas & Israel

[Francoquart]

The last time was in 2009 when Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu implemented a 10-month freeze on settlement construction in the West Bank in an attempt to jumpstart peace talks with the Palestinians. The moratorium on settlements has been also implemented several times in the 90's to promote peace negotiations.

With all respect man, but you have the habit of stating things in slices. He made that moratorium as a gesture for negotiation to resume. The real question is why were the settlements still going on in the West Bank in the first place? His declaration of a “pause” is void and is manipulative tactics. The Palestinian authority has always refused armed resistance and was always, even to this day, in favor of negotiations. All that this man and his government has done is undermine them by humiliating them in every way possible. One of the reason Hamas and the others in favor of armed resistance grew in popularity. So, in summary, Netanyahu seizes land, when he is exposed, he plays the nice guy or the victim, then after some round of negotiations, where he gives up nothing, settlements resume, along with demolition of houses, confiscation of others, or the land, etc....

But who would be the peace figure on the Palestinian side? . Who would change the islamo destructive hatred ideology ?
It’s not about land my friend. The world wants the Palestinians to have a land but their leaders have other plans. History is there to prove it

It is problematic when the real cause of the conflict is camouflaged or dismissed just like that. It was always about Land, and it still is. The world wants to see a Palestinian state, but not Netanyahu. Like I said before, he is saying it, on multiple occasions, so it is not even a guess or an analysis at this stage.

What is the Islamo destructive hatred ideology? The ones Isis uses, and is supported by Israel in Syria?

I am in no position to defend Islam, since I know so little about it. However, every religion can easily be twisted to become aggressive and intolerant, as much as it can be tweaked to become all love and peace. When in a war of EXISTENCE, which the Palestinian are waging, against an enemy that has no limitation in its terrorism against them, you expect them to say what exactly, Long Live Israel?

 

[poupsy]

Eager ?

I would say that if 2 miliions Muslims live and enjoy democratic rights in Israel why jew would not be able to live also in a future muslim Palestinian state?

 

[minutemenX]

The Palestinian authority has always refused armed resistance ...

So, blowing up buses and youth clubs was just a gentle reminder? They still pay special pensions to families of jailed and deceased terrorists and promote such "martyrdom" in schools and everywhere. Est Jerusalem has been plastered with posters celebrating deceased terrorists when I visited Israel short after the last intifada.

 

[silkandvelvet]

It's been going on for a long time, and it's disgusting.

Sorry .... Natanyahu does not know Golda Meir

 

[silkandvelvet]

Israeli soldiers don’t put gun to the baby head and pull the trigger. Hamas terrorists did exactly that and there are videos of these horrible acts. If Israeli soldiers came under fire from say some building, they may respond by firing tank shell back or by dropping a bomb on a mortar position placed inside a mosque or a school and killing some civilians inside. The civilian casualties during battles in urban arias are inevitable including innocent babies if they are not evacuated. You must however have a very narrow tunnel vision by not seeing the difference. As Golda Meir ones said, we may one day forgive you for killing our people, but we will never forgive you for forcing us killing yours.

MinutemenX: You have a one side view of the war. Benjamin Natanyahu is always right . The others ( Arabs, Muslims, European, ONU etc) are always wrongs. My last comment to you : Benjamin Natanyahu will past to history along side Adolf Hitler. I will not comment yours posts anymore . It is a waste of time.

 

[minutemenX]

MinutemenX: You have a one side view of the war. Benjamin Natanyahu is always right . The others ( Arabs, Muslims, European, ONU etc) are always wrongs. My last comment to you : Benjamin Natanyahu will past to history along side Adolf Hitler. I will not comment yours posts anymore . It is a waste of time.

you run out of rational arguments and put the label. That's it.

 

[Francoquart]

So, blowing up buses and youth clubs was just a gentle reminder?

You making up news now? When did Abou Mazen, the head of Palestinian authority do that? Plus how can this be a case or an argument when the IDF does so much more then that? In terms of killings the innocents and blowing up civilians structures, Israel has no right whatsoever to give lessons or complaints. The terrorism they use against the Palestinians on all level (social, political, military, economic) has never been witnessed in history. The level of Cruelty and Barbarism is simply astonishing.

I would say that if 2 miliions Muslims live and enjoy democratic rights in Israel why jew would not be able to live also in a future muslim Palestinian state

This made me smile. Honestly?! What you are saying is that the settlers are ready to become Palestinians Citizens, and give up all their weapons (they are all armed), and accept Palestinians laws to stop taking over lands and homes? I am certain the Palestinian authority will not object to that. You are stating unrealistic things. Moreover, the future Palestinian state is a secular one, not a Muslim one (they also are Christian Palestinians).

 

[minutemenX]

You making up news now? When did Abou Mazen, the head of Palestinian authority do that? Plus how can this be a case or an argument when the IDF does so much more then that? In terms of killings the innocents and blowing up civilians structures, Israel has no right whatsoever to give lessons or complaints. The terrorism they use against the Palestinians on all level (social, political, military, economic) has never been witnessed in history. The level of Cruelty and Barbarism is simply astonishing.

This made me smile. Honestly?! What you are saying is that the settlers are ready to become Palestinians Citizens, and give up all their weapons (they are all armed), and accept Palestinians laws to stop taking over lands and homes? I am certain the Palestinian authority will not object to that. You are stating unrealistic things. Moreover, the future Palestinian state is a secular one, not a Muslim one (they also are Christian Palestinians).

No point discussing with you guys. For you Jews are wrong by definition when defending themselves. This is an argument for which there is no answer for more than 2000 years.

 

[fin]

No point discussing with you guys. For you Jews are wrong by definition when defending themselves. This is an argument for which there is no answer for more than 2000 years.

"History is crowded with chapters in which Indigenous peoples, starved and immiserated by colonial oppressions, finally rebel, with those rebellions at times including atrocities. This, in turn, becomes the pretext for their colonial overlords to unleash unhinged “exterminate all the brutes” rampages, to the point of genocide. "

Jewish writer Naomi Klein in The Guardian about Israel

 

[minutemenX]

"History is crowded with chapters in which Indigenous peoples, starved and immiserated by colonial oppressions, finally rebel, with those rebellions at times including atrocities. This, in turn, becomes the pretext for their colonial overlords to unleash unhinged “exterminate all the brutes” rampages, to the point of genocide. "

Jewish writer Naomi Klein in The Guardian about Israel

 

[Francoquart]

No point discussing with you guys. For you Jews are wrong by definition when defending themselves. This is an argument for which there is no answer for more than 2000 years.

No, not Jews. I said it before, Jews are innocent of this bloodshed.

Zionism is not Judaism.

Historically, Jews have always lived in relative peace and prosperity in the Middle East. They were not persecuted, and the Jews were spread around all the countries and well-integrated.

As a reminder man, Jews were persecuted in Europe, especially in Nazi Germany, in Europe. The Palestinians are in the middle or near East and have nothing to do with those.

No one is wrong defending himself, but an aggressor cannot claim self-defense. Defending themselves against babies, kids, and innocent civilians, the press, the medical teams, the ambulances?

We look at history to draw lessons and not the repeat the same mistake. We evolve by creating laws and practices that will prevent horrific incidents from the past. One such development is the UN and the Conventions to protect the civilians and innocents. Referring to the incidents that were the reason of the creation of those is just looking for a pretext, and not a sound argument.

 

[minutemenX]

No, not Jews. I said it before, Jews are innocent of this bloodshed.

Zionism is not Judaism.

Historically, Jews have always lived in relative peace and prosperity in the Middle East. They were not persecuted, and the Jews were spread around all the countries and well-integrated.

As a reminder man, Jews were persecuted in Europe, especially in Nazi Germany, in Europe. The Palestinians are in the middle or near East and have nothing to do with those.

No one is wrong defending himself, but an aggressor cannot claim self-defense. Defending themselves against babies, kids, and innocent civilians, the press, the medical teams, the ambulances?

We look at history to draw lessons and not the repeat the same mistake. We evolve by creating laws and practices that will prevent horrific incidents from the past. One such development is the UN and the Conventions to protect the civilians and innocents. Referring to the incidents that were the reason of the creation of those is just looking for a pretext, and not a sound argument.

Man, ignorance is not a virtue. All through Middle Ages Jews were persecuted everywhere across Europe, were treated as noncitizens and has been expelled numerous times from different countries and were specifically harassed by the Inquisition. Antisemitism was rampant across Eastern Europe especially Russia where Jews were forbidden to live beyond the Pail of Settlement, big cities and occupy most of common professions. It is a myth that Germans single-handedly killed 6M Jews. Authorities in all occupied and affiliated with Germany countries and local population were eager to assist. France is no exception with tens of thousand Jews shipped to concentration camps by the Vichy government. As In Arab countries, just before WWII and throughout Ottaman empire, there was special tax that Jews must pay. Also, many occupations were forbidden to Jews. All large Jewish communities were expelled from most Arab countries and their properties were confiscated in pretext that they have sympathy toward Israel. Right here in North America in many hotels in 30th (Florida in particular) the sign ”No Blacks and Jews” was common. Antisemitism was rampant especially in Quebec where it was fueled by the Catholic Church. Remembering own history every Jew understands that when the shit hits the fan he can’t rely on protection from institutions and good neighbours and has nowhere to go but to his own country. Recent events confirmed this. Thus, practically every Jew to a large degree is a Zionist. Zionism is simply the movement stated that Jews need to maintain and defend their own country. So good luck separating antizionism from antisemitism as this is practically the same thing.

 

[Francoquart]

Man, ignorance is not a virtue.

Regarding what exactly? You repeated what I said about Jews persecution in Europe but jus added details (thanks for the info i guess?).

All large Jewish communities were expelled from most Arab countries and their properties were confiscated in pretext that they have sympathy toward Israel

That is not entirely correct, but lets assume it is, then the cause is clear, the Arabs considers that Land to be Arab, whether Jews, Christians or Muslims. Ben Gurion was Polish. That overreaction would have been because of this and not the fact they are Jewish.
Now, the Reality (ignorance is not a virtue indeed). The massive Immigration of the Arab Jews was sponsored, encouraged, and facilitated by many Zionist institutions.
However, all of this, that History, or how or why Israel came to be does not excuse any of what is happening today. This constant going back is simply to try to gather sympathy and remind people that Jewish have suffered indeed, and that they were Victims. True as it may be, it does not mean that they can wipe out others, especially the ones that have nothing to do with their sufferings.

 

[suspected_file_swapper]

Additional history lesson for those who don't understand historical FACTS:

What people are too dumb to realize is "Palestine" was from the name given by the Romans as "Syria Palaestina" in the early 2nd Century CE (AD) when they renamed Judea. Prior to that for much longer it was known as Judea and Samaria. The name Judea is why they are called Jews. Ju, Jew, Judea, Jewish since it is an ethno religion so not all Jews are practicing Judaism/religious. Prior they were known as the Hebrews or Ancient Israelites in the united Kingdom of Israel which existed until 722 BCE when it was conquered by the Neo-Assyrian Empire.

Modern day/current narrative "Palestinians" are nothing but Arabs trying to steal more land like they always do. Arabs came from the Arabian Peninsula and have colonized the vast majority of the Middle East. The Arabs are the colonizers, the Muslims are the ethnic cleansers. Mizrahi Jews (and Christians) lived all across the Middle East and now are only really living in Israel now because of the Muslims.

Palestine in it's current narrative and it's so-called "Palestinian people" is the biggest lie in human history. If they want to become a legitimate people, they had numerous chances that they all turned down. 1948 Partition Plan turned down by the Arabs. Arabs waged war against Israel 1 day after declaring independance, so to those who claim the "nakba" was Israel ethnically cleansing "Palestine", no because it was a result of Israel defending itself from Arab nations on every border trying to destroy Israel.

" Conditioning " a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth. This is not about " Palestine " .......Israel , a liberal democracy is currently under attack by 7 Iranian sponsored militias who want to violently destroy it and replace it with a theocratic dictatorship .

I wonder what happened to the thriving jewish and christian communities in Iraq, Syria , Lebanon ? We may never know .

 

[poupsy]

You making up news now? When did Abou Mazen, the head of Palestinian authority do that? Plus how can this be a case or an argument when the IDF does so much more then that? In terms of killings the innocents and blowing up civilians structures, Israel has no right whatsoever to give lessons or complaints. The terrorism they use against the Palestinians on all level (social, political, military, economic) has never been witnessed in history. The level of Cruelty and Barbarism is simply astonishing.

This made me smile. Honestly?! What you are saying is that the settlers are ready to become Palestinians Citizens, and give up all their weapons (they are all armed), and accept Palestinians laws to stop taking over lands and homes? I am certain the Palestinian authority will not object to that. You are stating unrealistic things. Moreover, the future Palestinian state is a secular one, not a Muslim one (they also are Christian Palestinians).

Stating that a future pàlestinian state would be a secular state is the best joke i ever heard.
after all maybe you don’t know much about the region and the conflict

 

[Zabei Bolt]

Palestine in it's current narrative and it's so-called "Palestinian people" is the biggest lie in human history.

Absolutely true. There is in fact a strong case to be made that the so-called "Palestinian people" is a propaganda device invented by the Russian KGB. See a very good write-up linked below.

I am a Palestinian - opinion

Russia pushed the name on reluctant local Arabs.

www.jpost.com

 

[silkandvelvet]

Man, ignorance is not a virtue. All through Middle Ages Jews were persecuted everywhere across Europe, were treated as noncitizens and has been expelled numerous times from different countries and were specifically harassed by the Inquisition. Antisemitism was rampant across Eastern Europe especially Russia where Jews were forbidden to live beyond the Pail of Settlement, big cities and occupy most of common professions. It is a myth that Germans single-handedly killed 6M Jews. Authorities in all occupied and affiliated with Germany countries and local population were eager to assist. France is no exception with tens of thousand Jews shipped to concentration camps by the Vichy government. As In Arab countries, just before WWII and throughout Ottaman empire, there was special tax that Jews must pay. Also, many occupations were forbidden to Jews. All large Jewish communities were expelled from most Arab countries and their properties were confiscated in pretext that they have sympathy toward Israel. Right here in North America in many hotels in 30th (Florida in particular) the sign ”No Blacks and Jews” was common. Antisemitism was rampant especially in Quebec where it was fueled by the Catholic Church. Remembering own history every Jew understands that when the shit hits the fan he can’t rely on protection from institutions and good neighbours and has nowhere to go but to his own country. Recent events confirmed this. Thus, practically every Jew to a large degree is a Zionist. Zionism is simply the movement stated that Jews need to maintain and defend their own country. So good luck separating antizionism from antisemitism as this is practically the same thing.

To me the actual barbarism of Israel provide some rational of the past antisemitism.

 

[minutemenX]

To me the actual barbarism of Israel provide some rational of the past antisemitism.

Thank you for coming out of the closet Mr. Antisemite. By your “logic” present acts of Israel's self-defence justify all past persecution of the Jews. Antisemites among other “virtues” supposedly always had all knowledge of the future.

 

[silkandvelvet]

Thank you for coming out of the closet Mr. Antisemite. By your “logic” present acts of Israel's self-defence justify all past persecution of the Jews. Antisemites among other “virtues” supposedly always had all knowledge of the future.

When you have orchestrated a genocide , this takes away your right to complain having been victims of a genocide. In other words: Benjamin Natanyahu = Adolf Hitler

 

[poupsy]

When you have orchestrated a genocide , this takes away your right to complain having been victims of a genocide. In other words: Benjamin Natanyahu = Adolf Hitler

When you comit a oct 7 atrocity and holding hostages it takes away your right to complain about anything and mostly to claim a country