Montreal Escorts

How will Bill C-36 affect your hobbying?

How will Bill C-36 affect your hobbying?

  • No change for me. The chances of getting caught are pretty slim.

    Votes: 20 22.7%
  • I will continue, but will make adjustments to reduce my risks of getting caught.

    Votes: 26 29.5%
  • I will lie low for a while to see if and how the law will be applied here.

    Votes: 31 35.2%
  • That's it for me. I'm out of here. I was thinking of quitting any way.

    Votes: 9 10.2%
  • Other. Please post your answer, unless you prefer to remain anonymous.

    Votes: 2 2.3%

  • Total voters
    88
  • Poll closed .
Is C-36 active right now does does it become law at some point in the next 30 days?
Parts of C-36 are now law and other parts come into effect on Dec.6th.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/LegisInfo/Bill...6635303&View=6
Coming into force

"49. The provisions of this Act, other than sections 46 to 48, come into force 30 days after the day on which this Act receives royal assent."

For a summary of the law:
http://openparliament.ca/bills/41-2/C-36/
"This bill has received Royal Assent and is now law."
 

Rusty Staub

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Jul 10, 2008
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TY Gabriella

You've obviously been following this more closely than I. Two questions:

1) If you were to come to my hotel room on December 7th and we were to be interrupted by 2/3 rd's of the Montreal SWAT Team and 6 horses from the Royal Canadian Mounties.....

If I were simply to say that you came to my room because I am a sexy beast, that no money was exchanged, and you confirmed, they would have to be on their merry way, no?

2) Do hotels have any accountability? For instance if they suspect sex for money is occurring on their property (picture the minivan of SP's rolling up to the front door at 2AM) could they be accused of running a bawdy house (brothel)? Or is it business as usual for Mtl properties?
 
TY Gabriella

You've obviously been following this more closely than I. Two questions:

1) If you were to come to my hotel room on December 7th and we were to be interrupted by 2/3 rd's of the Montreal SWAT Team and 6 horses from the Royal Canadian Mounties.....

If I were simply to say that you came to my room because I am a sexy beast, that no money was exchanged, and you confirmed, they would have to be on their merry way, no?

2) Do hotels have any accountability? For instance if they suspect sex for money is occurring on their property (picture the minivan of SP's rolling up to the front door at 2AM) could they be accused of running a bawdy house (brothel)? Or is it business as usual for Mtl properties?

1. If they were to come into your room, I would first ask them to leave their horses at the door and then come in for a drink. We could easily invite them to watch or if a few of them are nice looking, perhaps we could invite them to join? ;) What do you think, you sexy beast?

But seriously, this is what I have on my site:
"Money exchanged for legal adult personal services is simply for time and companionship only. Anything else that may or may not happen is a matter of personal choice and personal preference between two or more consenting adults of a legal age, and is not contracted for, nor is requested to be contacted for, or compensated for in any manner."
This would be your answer too but in different words... You paid me for my time and companionship only! Everything else is free!

2. As far as hotels being accountable, I highly doubt it... Wouldn't make any sense if they were.
 

Birds

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Dec 19, 2012
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It doesn't affect me at all. Why it should? First, the main goal of this law, like many other laws, is to scare people. Actually applying a law like this take a lot of police resources and budget. The world's oldest profession between consenting adults is low on police priority. I don't think much will change. Especially if people are not scared. Second, there are so many laws right now that it is virtually impossible to be a legit law abiding citizen. Being caught for a "crime" is a matter of bad luck or not being liked by certain people who will rat you out about something. So my advice to people on this board is to not panic, and just do your business as usual.
 

Merlot

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Nov 13, 2008
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Hello all,

...a arrest has a tendency to brake friendships .Knowing other hobbyist might backfire ?
When someone has never been arrested it is very hard to predict how he will react and feel about his arrest and what he will be willing to do ,to have the charges dropped or reduced .
Police investigators are specialist in stirring shit amongst people ,to gather infos they will intimidate and pretend heavy sentences or penalties ,It is predictable already that hobbyist escort operators drivers etc ..that where never arrested will crack under pressure and provide names and situations and valid leads.

Booker

To say that whatever goes on behind closed doors is private in regards to seeing sex workers and feel secure with that view once C-36 is in effect is not dealing with the real risk.

I can't see how anyone can feel there's no need to make adjustments to their hobbying habits just out of sensible caution. I'm sure many if not all of us are somewhat concerned about a simple thing as the fact that phone numbers are being kept, and that is probably true for those with the lowest profile such as foreigners who don't hobby a lot. What more for locals who have built up a huge record.

It might be logical that having built up a network of trusted friends and close business connections you can trust that you might feel safe. Meeting people at GTs and becoming closer should reinforce that comfort and feeling of security. But one forgets this all developed in a basically no-threatening atmosphere where everyone tended to feel very safe, secure, and could felt free enough to relate to other people with confidence that they expected nothing would change or become a serious risk to their privacy, their identity, or intrusions into their activities. But with C-36, regardless of the level of enforcement, all of that built up confidence and aura of security has changed, and when people, escorts, owners, hobbyists don't feel so comfortable any more self-preservation means the security bubble of trust is going to shrink and connections that looked so good and positive before are going to be questioned more. The more connected you are to more people the greater the risk to the entire bubble you thought was your security. One key arrest and anyone in that bubble could be affected because of the same strong connections they thought brought security.

Overall, I don't think kit's going to be as risky as it seems. But if the LE decides to make a splash in this area I'm going to be very grateful I'm distant and not so deeply connected as some, and I don;t think the LE will just ignore the law no matter how we here or the people of Quebec feel about it being misguided or wrong.

This whole law make no sense in the first place... i don't understand why people don't realize that. The simple fact of dating is paying for sex more often than not, you end up paying for drinks, going out, gifting her stuff. Basically by the new law standard you can't give your girlfriend a jewel cause if she has sex with you later on its prostitution?

To say we pay those people to run our country is unbelievable.

Despite all the wry comments about how going to a sex worker is cheaper and more efficient than going through all the work it takes to have a girlfriend and the high risk disappointment versus a guarantee, society has still not accepted that direct payment for sex is the same, whether it's about ethics, morality, or just the ish factor, and that's without how the media and others constantly portray the trade in tv, movies, and print. Otherwise there wouldn't be any C-36.

Bonne chance,

Merlot
 

gugu

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Feb 11, 2009
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Merlot, LE and prosecutors (provincial) are just not interested in consensual paid sex. It will not change because of the law. Of course the market will shrink for a while but it will come back in a couple of years with the same confidence level you see now. The splash you re talking about is what people in category 3 of the pole are waiting to see if it happens. But it will not, at least in Québec. The SPVM is sending a strong and clear message: they need to build up confidence with sex workers in order to fight abuses. A splash would ruin such attempt, both for street and indoor prostitution.
 

rollingstone

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Sep 4, 2006
658
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What Merlot is talking about is not direct enforcement, but enforcement of opportunity. One person can get busted for something completely unrelated to C-36, say tax evasion or embezzlement. That person might offer up information on a number of suspects violating C-36 to local or federal authorities in hopes of striking a deal.
 

gugu

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Feb 11, 2009
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rs, LE does not need any of this fancy stuff to arrest clients. They can get them by the dozens on the streets, at the entrance/exit of massage parlors and incall locations. They can make sting operations as much as they want. Before or after C-36.
 

rafterman02

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rs, LE does not need any of this fancy stuff to arrest clients. They can get them by the dozens on the streets, at the entrance/exit of massage parlors and incall locations. They can make sting operations as much as they want. Before or after C-36.

And the take away once the media reports one bust is that this whole sector of the business will grind to a halt and the effect will ripple through the outcall segment too.
 

BookerL

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Apr 29, 2014
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rs, LE does not need any of this fancy stuff to arrest clients. They can get them by the dozens on the streets, at the entrance/exit of massage parlors and incall locations. They can make sting operations as much as they want. Before or after C-36.

To arrest people they don't ,but in many cases they do need witnesses ,in your scenario where do they get them ?
Getting people to testify if they have nothing against them ,they have no incentive .
And incentive that is what make people talk over friendship
If 0 arrest is the count no one needs to worry .
But its highly unlikely that it will stay at 0 even if LE doesn't really care about consenting adult sex.
Many arrest where made under the old law that was much more hobbyist friendly and now with a more aggressive law nothing will happen ?


Cheers



Booker
 

EagerBeaver

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What the prosecutor traditionally does is overcharge the crap out of it so that they can leverage cooperation. And people think charges are being dropped when in reality the charges could never be proven in the first place and any competent defense attorney with half a brain and reasonable aggression would get them dismissed. But the so called easy targets get intimidated and think they need to cooperate when all they really need to do is lawyer up.

I have dealt with overcharging prosecutors and I call their bluff by going in and telling them what they have to prove under the statutory offense alleged. I lay it out there and once the bullshit is exposed and out on the table, usually they will talk man to man in a reasonable fashion.

Most of these charges do require testimony to prove and convict as booker has mentioned. It's usually hard for LE to get testimony unless witnesses are threatened and coerced. Those witnesses will either man up and attorney up or not. In my experience it's all a game and when bluffs get called cases tend to go away or get negotiated down. I have played these games in a few criminal matters it all depends on how far the client wants to push the defense. But overcharging is the norm not the exception for reasons already mentioned. At least that has been my experience in the USA but I really think these prosecution strategies don't differ all that much in Canada.
 

BookerL

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What the prosecutor traditionally does is overcharge the crap out of it so that they can leverage cooperation. And people think charges are being dropped when in reality the charges could never be proven in the first place and any competent defense attorney with half a brain and reasonable aggression would get them dismissed. But the so called easy targets get intimidated and think they need to cooperate when all they really need to do is lawyer up..
Hi EB

Intimidation is the name of the game here too !
LE identifies the weakest link in the chain and scare the crap out of them after .

Cheap LE tricks do work unless like you say ,they lawyer up and keep the shut up !


Cheers


Booker
 

rumpleforeskiin

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Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Incall has been illegal for years. Can someone tell me the last time an incall was busted for anything other than suspected trafficking or offering underage girls? Is there anyone here old enough to remember?

If you guys all hold your breath waiting for the first arrest in Quebec, there are going to be an awful lot of dead hobbyists.
 

BookerL

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Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Incall has been illegal for years. Can someone tell me the last time an incall was busted for anything other than suspected trafficking or offering underage girls? Is there anyone here old enough to remember?
Hi rumpleforeskiin
Sadly yes
And not all incall bust makes it to the media !

Cheers



Booker
 

EagerBeaver

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I tend to agree with Rumpleforeskin's analysis as to the likely enforcement but my analysis would apply to any selective enforcement against easy targets.
 

BookerL

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I tend to agree with Rumpleforeskin's analysis as to the likely enforcement but my analysis would apply to any selective enforcement against easy targets.

Easy targets obviously !
Plus the ones they have many complaints about .
Even if consensual sex between adult occurs ,to much traffic of gentlemen in certain places will bring up the heat and force the hand of LE to intervene


Cheers


Booker .
 

EagerBeaver

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Look at the LE patterns they go after people they think are easy targets but sometimes the easy target has a brother or a brother in law or maybe even the sister of an ex girlfriend who is a savvy criminal defense attorney and that is when they end up finding out they bit off more than they could chew.

In my business one of the things I am required to do is evaluate opposing attorneys. There are some who are very good triers and I have myself done battle with them or worked with them. And when I read that attorney has been retained by a defendant in a criminal matter I know that case is going to get pled out because the State's Attorneys are chickenshit afraid to get their asses handed to them on a shaky case. They are political animals and what happens is that if you rattle their cage they run into the corner and hide because they don't want a loss in a case that hits the media. And if it's one of a few defense attorneys I know that is how it's going down.
 

BookerL

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Look at the LE patterns they go after people they think are easy targets but sometimes the easy target has a brother or a brother in law or maybe even the sister of an ex girlfriend who is a savvy criminal defense attorney and that is when they end up finding out they bit off more than they could chew.
Hi EB
Or sometimes they have a friend that was involve in many court cases !Lol
But you are right they do not want to loose faces in ridiculous charges that no one really cares about and that will not bring them glory even if they win .
But complaints of high traffic is always dangerous ,I was rotating my incalls locations to avoid being on radar !
The problem always is when you are doing a tolerated activity which is criminal by law but far in the priority list by LE, what is the safety precautions you took that avoided your arrest ?
You have no proof other then you where not arrested

Cheers


Booker
 

HornyForEver

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If 0 arrest is the count no one needs to worry .
But its highly unlikely that it will stay at 0 even if LE doesn't really care about consenting adult sex.
Many arrest where made under the old law that was much more hobbyist friendly and now with a more aggressive law nothing will happen ?

I agree with you Booker and to a great extent with Merlot.

IMHO, saying that C-36 will have absolutely no effect is a form of wishful thinking or being in denial, call it whatever pleases you. If bill C-36 will be having no effect, then what all the fuss that we have been witnessing here on MERB for a about a year from some members. Excerpts from articles, links to videos, polls and so on?

I doubt that there will be massive arrests of Johns and Mikes on December 7th (unless, Coderre thinks that such a campaign would increase his popularity and the gentelman is starving for popularity). Whatever SPVM PR people say in media remains PR stuff, reality does not need to reflect it. As far as I know, policemen have quotas and performance indicators. If they have to arrest some clients in order to meet their goals, then do you think that they will ever hesitate doing so? Going after easy targets is called the Law of minimum effort, choosing the path that allows you to spend the least amount of energy while maximizing the outcome. Mother nature knows about this law and I am pretty sure that SPVM employees do as well.

The fallacy here is that many people tend to confuse a low probability of getting arrested with a zero probability of getting arrested (as Booker mentioned in the quoted post). The consequences of getting arrested will be catasrophic for most of us: having a criminal record, treated as being a criminal, destroyed marriages/relationships, professional consequences...This is called a Black Swan phenomenon (term coined by Nassim Taleb): an event with a very low probability, but with drastic consequences. I don't want to be there when the black swan pops in.
 

rumpleforeskiin

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...what all the fuss that we have been witnessing here on MERB for a about a year from some members. Excerpts from articles, links to videos, polls and so on?
I'd call it utter foolishness myself.

The fallacy here is that many people tend to confuse a low probability of getting arrested with a zero probability of getting arrested
Quite true. Low probability of getting popped hasn't stopped me from jaywalking where the probability of getting charged is much, much greater.
 
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