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It's Official Canada has adopted Nordic Model Prostitution Law

EagerBeaver

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Jul 11, 2003
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Patron is right, internet votes are meaningless bullshit that are ignored by those in power.

What those in power cannot ignore are demonstrations and lawsuits/court challenges by good attorneys. That can turn public opinion. This is why the sex workers organizing and getting legal assistance is of paramount importance.
 

anon_vlad

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Apr 29, 2004
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There was a time when the government had severe penalties for homosexuality and prevented businesses from opening on Sunday. You are all at fault, you who approve of language laws, legislating against the publication of election results on the night of an election, speed limits for cars on certain streets which are so low than bicyclists can exceed them etc. If you support the Nanny state, don't complain now.

Governments should build infrastructure, offer education, handle immigration, law enforcement of crimes with indisputable victims, remove garbage, clean streets, provide water, protect us against tainted products etc.

Governments should only provide service we absolutely need and which cannot reasonably be provided by industry. We should not tolerate them telling us what to do with our personal lives.

There is no relief in sight in the next election. That entitled stupid brat Justin Trudeau (whose greatest qualification is his birth certificate) apparently also approves of this legislation. He should have listened to his much wiser father who famously stated that the state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation.
 

prophetofdoom

Banned
Nov 19, 2006
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Indictable (Felony) or Summary (Misdemeanour) ?

I am a little confused as it refers to Indictable and Summary - which is when - anyone ?
I guess it is the "(ii) in any other case" under Indictable which throws me off as the clause appears to cover all cases under Indictable.
Then what is it that is merely Summary ?

20. The Act is amended by adding the following
after section 286:
COMMODIFICATION OF SEXUAL ACTIVITY MARCHANDISATION DES ACTIVITÉS SEXUELLES
Obtaining sexual
services for
consideration
286.1 (1) Everyone who, in any place, obtains
obtains
for consideration, or communicates with
anyone for the purpose of obtaining for consideration,
the sexual services of a person is guilty
of
(a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment
for a term of not more than five
years and a minimum punishment of,
(i) in the case where the offence is committed
in a public place, or in any place
open to public view, that is or is next to a
park or the grounds of a school or religious
institution or that is or is next to any
other place where persons under the age of
18 can reasonably be expected to be
present,
(A) for a first offence, a fine of $2,000,
and
(B) for each subsequent offence, a fine
of $4,000, or
(ii) in any other case,
(A) for a first offence, a fine of $1,000,
and
(B) for each subsequent offence, a fine
of $2,000; or
(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction
and liable to imprisonment for a term
of not more than 18 months and a minimum
punishment of,
(i) in the case referred to in subparagraph
(a)(i),
(A) for a first offence, a fine of $1,000,
and
(B) for each subsequent offence, a fine
of $2,000, or
(ii) in any other case,
(A) for a first offence, a fine of $500,
and
(B) for each subsequent offence, a fine
of $1,000.
 

Siocnarf

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Jul 30, 2011
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Charlotte, I am not surprised. I read comments on many different news website and most citizen seem to think this new bill is stupid, even people who don't like prostitution.

Even in Sweden the government is the only one who magically shows favorable poll results. Other national polls show that people are angry with the law.
 

anon_vlad

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Apr 29, 2004
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Can one imagine being refused entry to the US or finding one's name listed in a registry of sex offenders for being convicted under this law?
 

EastRL0000

Member
Dec 15, 2013
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this is bill is pretty nuts.... I can profit from selling my own fat ass but its illegal for THE paper to punish it :p but for me its ok.....

But for my customer its illegal.... thank god all these years i been only paying for "company" and not any sexual services
 

prophetofdoom

Banned
Nov 19, 2006
177
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I think registry as a sex offender is required only in cases of aggravated procurement or in offenses related to underaged persons or in cases a John uses trickery, force or stupefying the provider with substances.
The regular consensual exchange will be illegal for the John but not a sex offense.
 

prophetofdoom

Banned
Nov 19, 2006
177
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0
Can one imagine being refused entry to the US or finding one's name listed in a registry of sex offenders for being convicted under this law?

I think registry as a sex offender is required only in cases of aggravated procurement or in offenses related to underaged persons or in cases a John uses trickery, force or stupefying the provider with substances.
The regular consensual exchange will be illegal for the John but not a sex offense.
 

man77777

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2011
1,683
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I suppose that this law means a death sentence to merb and all the ways we have to exchange information about the hobbying ?

Hobby will continue, but in poor condition for us : less girls, hard to find reliable informations about them, and the risk to be arrested like a rapist...

Too bad Quebec is intoxicated by this stupid Canada's habit to copy his prudish neighbour.
 

Siocnarf

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Jul 30, 2011
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Ah, but Ernst Zündel was not talking about sex. Sex is different. Because it's magic.

It's legal to sell a book that advocates slavery, genocide and wife beating (it's called the Bible and I hear it's actually quite popular) so long as it says that sex is bad.
 

S.S neo

Active Member
Apr 28, 2007
215
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14 months before next elections ... i hope ROC will boot this governement out. Enough is enough, and the only competent person in this cabinet is now dead (Flaherty) ... so no reasons to vote for them now.
 

hungry101

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Oct 29, 2007
5,838
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A comment I first made on the sister board, TERB:

Even in the worst case scenario in which LE would decide to act based on the provisions of the bill related to advertising, anybody who believes that this will ultimately prevent online advertising is seriously delusional, or has a poor understanding of how the Internet works.

This would just lead to advertising being done online in far more covert ways.

As it is, LE around the country has barely the resources to go after online child porn and underage prostitution. Forcing the whole industry to find ways to hide itself online would just make things far more difficult to investigate, and more complicated when comes the time of identifying cases of coercive and/or underage prostitution

And considering that the proposed law comes with barely any money ($20 million for exit strategies? they cannot seriously expect that this will achieve anything), the resources just won't be there to properly investigate and prosecute this.

Yes, but the government will have to show it is doing something to root out trafficking (whatever this is). There will be stings set up to take down traffickers and instead they will go after the low hanging fruit like agency owners and Johns. Rest assured that these Johns will not be "traffickers" but ordinary taxpaying and otherwise law abiding productive citizens who were just trying to pay for a little intimacy with a co consenting adult. I see this very similar to buzzed driving where they arrest you and charge you about 20$ grand to get out of trouble. You will be scarred for the rest of your life. The law makers will tell John Q. Public that "We are going to hit them in the pocketbook." The money they will extort from you in exchange for your freedom will be used to fund their organizations so they will have a cushy job for another month.

Yes, kick the Tory bums out. However, anyone who thinks that the liberals will want to throw out the Nordic model is sorely mistaken. This kind of irrational psycho-babbel tends to resonate with the left. I am afraid the Nordic Model is in vogue. This will be like the Emperor’s New Clothes. If you question this irrational group think by asking something logical like "How can it be legal to sell but illegal to buy?' You will be ostracized and outed like a perp.
 

Siocnarf

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Jul 30, 2011
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Here is Terri-Jean Bedford's comment on the bill from her blog. She doesn't seem too worried.
http://blog.terrijeanbedford.com/

''We may not even need a constitutional challenge to gut it. It spits in the face of the courts and judges will know this. It repeats the legal and safety shortcomings of the old laws. It does not even define what is and what is not a sex act.''

The Romans could not stamp out Christians even by crucifying all the ones they could find. Do the modern day Christians think they can stop us with this?
 

Nat_dn

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Jul 7, 2008
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I don't think outcall service will be seriously affected, even if they pass the law. A girl come to see me in my place (apartment or a 4 star hotel room), I let her in and then close the door. Now try to prove that I a) had sex with her AND b) paid for that sex. How do you do that? Break my door? Put a surveillance camera in the room?
Besides, smart agencies will advertise "companionship" only. Ok, I can even admit paid for that. Not for sex. If then we had sex, I wasn't paid for it. We were attracted to each other while talking, and then it happened. Spontaneously. It's hard to prove otherwise.
Well, I understand it can be done, if you really want to do that, but it is time consuming and expensive.
It's much easier to target street workers, incalls and MP, but even in the latters are not so easy to bust.
We live in a civilized society where they must prove I'm guilty. It is not easy, if barely possible in case of "companionship service". The USA has a special "anti-sex" police forces for decades, and in the same time thousands escort agencies: NY alone has more of them then probably entire Quebec, and how many of them were busted? They mostly target street action there.
I think this law is no more than a political bullshit that will not work. They are not interested in stopping prostitution, but show their voters their "high moral" and boost their image.
 

man77777

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2011
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Stupid question : could they use what we wrote or will write on merb or others hobbying forum, as a proof of our guilt ?
 

Siocnarf

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Jul 30, 2011
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I don't think outcall service will be seriously affected, even if they pass the law. A girl come to see me in my place (apartment or a 4 star hotel room), I let her in and then close the door. Now try to prove that I a) had sex with her AND b) paid for that sex. How do you do that? Break my door? Put a surveillance camera in the room?

The goal of the law is not really to arrest all of us, but to be a deterant. It's mostly to scare people. In your example, there is nothing they could do directly. BUT if they have something on the woman she could collaborate and sell you out to the police. Even if the chance of conviction are almost zero, just being arrested and detained by the police could be a big deal, especially for someone with a wife.

We can compare this with laws on drunk driving. Only a few people are arrested, but it has a good normative effect. In that case however, most people understand why drunk driving is bad and that's why they respect the law. For prostitution between consenting adults, there is no harm so people will not respect the law unless the chances of getting caught are very significant.

Man77777, I bet they could use it as some evidence, but not as solid proof in itself. I don't think they would use it to arrest someone, but when it goes to court they might use everything the guy wrote as evidence.
 

daydreamer41

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Feb 9, 2004
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I agree with siocnarf, the proposed law will allow SP`s to legally blackmail and extort customers. You will have to have a high level of trust with any SP you see.

Also, lone traveling males will face increased scrutiny at the border.

If the law passes the way it is written, current agencies would face prosecution if they engaged as they did previously. The government would want examples.

One part of the law mystifies me. Why outlaw advertising? This will drive prostitution further underground, making it more diffocult for LE. No one has ever said lawmakers are smart or have common sense.
 
L

Lily from Montreal

From what I read it is paying for advertising that will be illegal...So applied to me it means advertising on Merb will be a problem but it is my only paying venue, my site is free hosted and I do not advertises anywhere else that requires a fee...

It is sites like Merb that have to find a way to allow us to keep advertising or I guess I will just continue but keeping a,even more,lower profile...
 
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