I am not getting into this argument, but I am really amused by your consistent use of the word "donation". It means a voluntary gift or contribution for a specific cause. I am afraid it totally invalidates all your eloquent points. Could it perhaps make sense to switch to "payment"?
Ladies and gentlemen, what are your pet peeves?
- Thread starter AdeleBeaumont
- Start date
I am not getting into this argument, but I am really amused by your consistent use of the word "donation". It means a voluntary gift or contribution for a specific cause. I am afraid it totally invalidates all your eloquent points. Could it perhaps make sense to switch to "payment"?
This is exactly it.
I don’t have a problem putting the envelope on the table/counter at the beginning, It just makes it easier and that way I know I won’t forget it.
I don’t think my ATF would ask even if I forgot or most of the ladies I have repeated with, they know I would return and pay them.
For me this really is a non issue, I only see ladies with a solid reputation, and if by chance it does happen that I will not be happy with the session, I just won’t see them again, not the end of the world, not as if I have suddenly lost my life’s savings.
I have spent money on much stupider things than a bad session with an SP.
Especially when seeing someone like Julia who you know has anxiety, why put her through that.
Pet peeve. While getting a blowjob and you announce you are about to cum and they just stop.... WTF.
If you are not having CIM at least finish with a handjob, rub the head or something.
If you are not having CIM at least finish with a handjob, rub the head or something.
When I book an hour with my massage therapists, acupuncturists, pysiotherapists, osteptherapists, or any other professional where service is based on time, payment is never requested upfront even though it is based on buying their time. Payment is always expected at the end of the session. This is standard practice in Montreal anyways. The only reason I pay SP's in advance is to put them at ease due to the more dangerous nature of this business. I'm well aware that there are alot more incidents involving payment in this industry than the ones I mentioned above and want to show them not to worry.
AdeleBeaumont,
I disagree. No one can ever be 100% comfortable/sure. A first meeting always carries some risk. I say it best to meet halfway. The client leaves the donation in an envelope on the table and the escort takes donation after the service is rendered. It is a show of good faith from both sides. In my experiences a girl who asked to be paid upfront then puts the money in her pockets or worse gives it to some guy is because she is planning something bad.
I disagree. No one can ever be 100% comfortable/sure. A first meeting always carries some risk. I say it best to meet halfway. The client leaves the donation in an envelope on the table and the escort takes donation after the service is rendered. It is a show of good faith from both sides. In my experiences a girl who asked to be paid upfront then puts the money in her pockets or worse gives it to some guy is because she is planning something bad.
I don't fully agree with this statement. The type of service that I'm looking for are not offered by any girls on this board or any reputable agencies and I totally understand why most providers don't typically offer quickies. For this reason I often have to venture out in the jungle and TOFTT. Sometimes it's a hit and sometimes it's a miss. In time I have learned to take certain precautions and often act on gut feelings as soon as the door opens.
The whole point of TOFTT is because we're not entirely sure what to expect but we're taking the plunge anyways and reporting back later. If we only saw providers without taking risks we wouldn't have found all these gems from humpchies, annonceintime, ann123, etc. Risk is necessary to find them.
Until the very moment the client leaves your incall or your leave the client's place you can never be sure if it's a first time visit. There is only so much screening you can do to ensure your safety. You can take as many precautions as possible but it's very hard to ensure a 100% success rate.
You can never be totally sure when you meet a client for the first time... that's the whole point of our discussion.
If it were true then you would never have been robbed and Julia would never have been robbed 3 times either (I'm using the term robbed to refer to you not getting paid for your service). You can try your best but for 1st time encounters no one can be totally sure on either side.
I think that we are mixing apples with oranges also. We need to avoid mixing the dark world of ad sites with reputable escorts such as yourself. We cannot put them both in the same basked and have the same etiquette. It's a whole different ball game. Point is: Paying in advance or depositing the envelope when booking with reputable ladies such as yourself is a no brainer but when booking in the unsafe world of humpchies there is a whole different way of doing things and I hope you can empathize a little.
I don't think we can compare seeing an sp with going to the dentist. Simply because you will not be fully naked with the dentist and sharing intimacy.
When I see a gentleman, I allow him into my space, I am at my most vulnerable state. This is why I don't feel comfortable seeing a gentleman who refuses to "pay" upfront. There is no guarantee that he will give me an enveloppe when our time together is done. Thats exactly why I mention it in my ads, to avoid creating an awkward moment where I would have to ask him for the enveloppe or where he would have to ask me if I want it now or later.
I also agree, it's totally different when seeing an sp from LL, Humpch*es etc but then again, if you don't feel comfortable maybe stick to agencies or reputable independents.
When I see a gentleman, I allow him into my space, I am at my most vulnerable state. This is why I don't feel comfortable seeing a gentleman who refuses to "pay" upfront. There is no guarantee that he will give me an enveloppe when our time together is done. Thats exactly why I mention it in my ads, to avoid creating an awkward moment where I would have to ask him for the enveloppe or where he would have to ask me if I want it now or later.
I also agree, it's totally different when seeing an sp from LL, Humpch*es etc but then again, if you don't feel comfortable maybe stick to agencies or reputable independents.
A rather silly straw man argument. Consenting to sex and then later regretting that choice is not rape. It never has met the legal or moral definition of rape. It has never been and is not currently "standard on any college campus" these days (whatever that means).
The specific topic was the situation where an escort consents to a sexual act on the condition that she receives payment for that sexual act, and the customer skips out without paying after the sexual act. The consent was conditional. The condition was not met. Therefore the consent was not valid. There are jurisdictions that do recognize rape by fraud or deception as a crime. Regardless of whether it is recognized as a sex crime in a court of law, it is the scummiest thing a customer can do and any normal provider would feel sexually violated if it happened to her. If you cant see the violation in that, you are being intentionally obtuse.
It is a scummy thing to do and it is probably the scummiest thing a client can do and it is a criminal act but rape is a stretch for me. I think intentionally removing a condom is worse.
If jurisdictions consider this rape than the law is an ass. However, if a client runs out without paying I have no sympathy at all for him. Throw the book at him.
If jurisdictions consider this rape than the law is an ass. However, if a client runs out without paying I have no sympathy at all for him. Throw the book at him.
Ok but let’s end this discussion about rape lol, you do not get to tell people that calling it rape is a stretch - luv explained quite clearly the whole issue with consent, if you don’t understand his post that’s a you problem. Conditional consent > condition not met > rape. It’s really that simple and you need to stop invalidating the experience of rape victims. People are being raped and you have the audacity of being like "well she’s a hooker, I think calling it rape in this case is a stretch. Prostitutes can’t be raped." Full stop.
Imagine if I Said "well you’re a client, you’re not being scammed. By definition you’re a John who likes giving money to hot girls. She didn’t suck your dick? She spent an hour looking at the wall? Tough, but it’s not a scam : you’re a dude who gives money to women. Stop calling it "scam""
Flyingby : OMG yes, this is SO annoying! Or taxi drivers who think the road belongs to them only, who drive like shit and cut everyone lol
Imagine if I Said "well you’re a client, you’re not being scammed. By definition you’re a John who likes giving money to hot girls. She didn’t suck your dick? She spent an hour looking at the wall? Tough, but it’s not a scam : you’re a dude who gives money to women. Stop calling it "scam""
Flyingby : OMG yes, this is SO annoying! Or taxi drivers who think the road belongs to them only, who drive like shit and cut everyone lol
Also. And to add to this
Solo drivers in carpool or electric lane
People parking in spots reserved for families or pregnant women when clearly should not be
Maybe i am in my car too often but anything with automobiles and not respecting rules is a huge pet peeve
@Julia Sky, I realize the topic has probably snowballed more than you expected. I’ll agree that there’s legal standing to call not paying an sp rape by fraud or deception but I’ll never agree that this is the same as a woman being forced to have sex against their will or child molestation. Conditional consent & no consent are completely different.
This is a two way street though, so if an sp agrees to certain acts & declines to perform them when you’re having sex, then the same definition of rape by fraud or deception applies, since the clients conditions for consent weren’t met. You can’t call it rape for an sp but only a scam for a client. Unless you think clients can’t be raped.
If buying & selling sex were completely legal & prosecutors were willing to file charges of rape by fraud or deception, more charges would be filed against sp’s under this law for not performing what they advertised than clients for not paying. It would actually make the hobby safer for clients.
This is a two way street though, so if an sp agrees to certain acts & declines to perform them when you’re having sex, then the same definition of rape by fraud or deception applies, since the clients conditions for consent weren’t met. You can’t call it rape for an sp but only a scam for a client. Unless you think clients can’t be raped.
If buying & selling sex were completely legal & prosecutors were willing to file charges of rape by fraud or deception, more charges would be filed against sp’s under this law for not performing what they advertised than clients for not paying. It would actually make the hobby safer for clients.
Again, I was raped as a child and I was raped as a sex worker. Both felt the same to me. You don’t get to be like "HI I AM A MAN AND LOUD AND MY OPINION IS THAT YOUR FEELINGS ARE NOT VALID". Nobody gets to tell rape victims that they haven’t been raped. The fact people who aren’t even part of the equation "don’t think it’s the same" is irrelevant when people who have gone through both assure you that it is the same. At the end of the day rape is rape and you LOUD OPINIONATED MEN need to stop invalidating victims feelings just because you think you’re some kind of guru.
Also - a condition for consent cannot force another person to perform certain acts, and consent can be revoked at any time during sex. Your comparison makes no sense. No, you not getting the sexual act you thought you were gonna get is not rape, because that’s not how consent works. You can’t force someone to consent to a certain sexual act just because you want it. You can’t say "I only consent to sex if you do anal", but you can say "We can have anal sex if you consent to it", and even then, the person can consent and then change their mind and revoke their consent for anal and you still haven’t been raped because consent cannot depend on you forcing someone to do something. You can’t claim "well she didn’t let me rape her so that means she raped me".
Youre comparing apples and oranges.
EDIT : I can’t believe we still have to teach consent to grown people in 2019 but here, I compiled screenshots from different places in the world including Canada since you seem to understand better when te law says it instead of a hooker on a review board :
http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2019/41/1/1570471225-f9e462fe-50e6-4e39-bbb8-4f9bc2c221c7.jpeg and http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2019/41/1/1570471228-6e4a1836-e51e-4c69-b5f1-01e8c1e6f728.jpeg
Also - a condition for consent cannot force another person to perform certain acts, and consent can be revoked at any time during sex. Your comparison makes no sense. No, you not getting the sexual act you thought you were gonna get is not rape, because that’s not how consent works. You can’t force someone to consent to a certain sexual act just because you want it. You can’t say "I only consent to sex if you do anal", but you can say "We can have anal sex if you consent to it", and even then, the person can consent and then change their mind and revoke their consent for anal and you still haven’t been raped because consent cannot depend on you forcing someone to do something. You can’t claim "well she didn’t let me rape her so that means she raped me".
Youre comparing apples and oranges.
EDIT : I can’t believe we still have to teach consent to grown people in 2019 but here, I compiled screenshots from different places in the world including Canada since you seem to understand better when te law says it instead of a hooker on a review board :
http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2019/41/1/1570471225-f9e462fe-50e6-4e39-bbb8-4f9bc2c221c7.jpeg and http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2019/41/1/1570471228-6e4a1836-e51e-4c69-b5f1-01e8c1e6f728.jpeg
Was wondering does anyone have any pet peeves for when threads stray a bit off topic?? ... well anyways
On the subject of the donation I prefer to give it in the end. But it has nothing to do with being wary and mistrustful of the provider or being on a power trip and withholding payment until services have been rendered sort of thing . For me it’s just more convenient . If I give the donation in the beginning how will I know it is the correct amount since I won’t know if I’ll go over the allotted time , or if there is going to be any additional upcharge ( extras ) , or how much of a tip I’ll leave . I always tip regardless , but I tip a lot more my Favs and the providers that give great service which of course is impossible to know beforehand. Exchanging money is not my favourite part of the encounter so I try to avoid doing it multiple times . Therefore I give the proper donation all at once , and that is at the end of the session.
If I new for a fact that the ladies where worried and stressed about the donation then I wouldn’t hesitate for a second to give it upfront. But in my defence most of my sessions are repeats with agencies that most probably inform the girls beforehand about regular clients such as myself and therefore put them more at ease.
Again I realize that’s not the case with most indies , as they are more exposed and way more vulnerable than agency girls , so I most certainly understand their reasoning. I empathize with the ladies and their concerns in regards to receiving the donation upfront ,,, I just hope that they would do the same for us .
If each and every one of us put ourselves in the other persons shoes we wouldn’t be so quick to judge each other’s motives for doing things.
On the subject of the donation I prefer to give it in the end. But it has nothing to do with being wary and mistrustful of the provider or being on a power trip and withholding payment until services have been rendered sort of thing . For me it’s just more convenient . If I give the donation in the beginning how will I know it is the correct amount since I won’t know if I’ll go over the allotted time , or if there is going to be any additional upcharge ( extras ) , or how much of a tip I’ll leave . I always tip regardless , but I tip a lot more my Favs and the providers that give great service which of course is impossible to know beforehand. Exchanging money is not my favourite part of the encounter so I try to avoid doing it multiple times . Therefore I give the proper donation all at once , and that is at the end of the session.
If I new for a fact that the ladies where worried and stressed about the donation then I wouldn’t hesitate for a second to give it upfront. But in my defence most of my sessions are repeats with agencies that most probably inform the girls beforehand about regular clients such as myself and therefore put them more at ease.
Again I realize that’s not the case with most indies , as they are more exposed and way more vulnerable than agency girls , so I most certainly understand their reasoning. I empathize with the ladies and their concerns in regards to receiving the donation upfront ,,, I just hope that they would do the same for us .
If each and every one of us put ourselves in the other persons shoes we wouldn’t be so quick to judge each other’s motives for doing things.
I never said your feelings are invalid. On the contrary, I took the time to see your point of view while you’re the one saying any opinions other than yours are invalid. If anything, you’re the one acting like a loud opinionated guru on the topic. I’m just following the legal doctrine you made me aware of. You don’t get to decide how everyone else feels on the topic.
I have no idea why forcing an sp to do anything is part of your argument. If an sp agrees to certain acts & says no during sex, it’s the client being forced to accept new terms. Yet you’re switching the topic & saying it’s the client forcing himself on the sp? There’s no show of force by the client in this scenario. Yes, you can revoke your rite to consent at any time but so can the client. I’m sorry if you don’t like it but under that legal terminology, it’s the same consent by deception as your argument about not paying.
I have no idea why forcing an sp to do anything is part of your argument. If an sp agrees to certain acts & says no during sex, it’s the client being forced to accept new terms. Yet you’re switching the topic & saying it’s the client forcing himself on the sp? There’s no show of force by the client in this scenario. Yes, you can revoke your rite to consent at any time but so can the client. I’m sorry if you don’t like it but under that legal terminology, it’s the same consent by deception as your argument about not paying.
Whoever is reading this thread and just texted me that "I should get raped everyday stupid c**t" : thanks for the laugh, immature people can’t hurt me with their words. Lol
Ian, my point was just that you can’t base your consent on specific acts. You can’t claim "rape" just because someone revoked their consent. It is their right. On the other hand, you can 100% base your consent on terms that DO NOT include sexual acts. In example payment. Payment isn’t a sexual act, therefore it can be a condition of consent. BBBJ or anal cannot be conditions of consent therefore you’re not being raped if someone agrees to bbbj then changes their mind. I don’t make the rules I just follow them lol. You’re being scammed at most, but not raped
Ian, my point was just that you can’t base your consent on specific acts. You can’t claim "rape" just because someone revoked their consent. It is their right. On the other hand, you can 100% base your consent on terms that DO NOT include sexual acts. In example payment. Payment isn’t a sexual act, therefore it can be a condition of consent. BBBJ or anal cannot be conditions of consent therefore you’re not being raped if someone agrees to bbbj then changes their mind. I don’t make the rules I just follow them lol. You’re being scammed at most, but not raped
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