MASS SHOOTING/USA

[CaptRenault]

Here's my summary of the new Florida law: now the good guys can carry concealed guns too.

Florida has OKed permitless concealed carry. Can I pack a pistol in Publix?

Now that the Florida Legislature has removed the requirement for a concealed weapons license, , exactly? We've got answers.

www.tallahassee.com

What does Florida's concealed carry bill do?

The bills SB150/HB543 eliminate the need for a concealed weapons license, which required a mandatory background check and a firearms training course, before you can carry hidden weapons or firearms on your person or in a vehicle in Florida, provided you still meet other gun ownership requirements.

The bill also adds private schools to the list of educational facilities that can ask the local sheriff for help establishing a guardian program, requires law enforcement agencies to develop an active assailant response policy, requires the Office of Safe Schools to develop a behavioral threat management operational process and develop a threat management portal, authorizes the state Department of Education to adopt emergency rules, requires the Department of Education to establish the Florida Safe Schools Canine Program, and more.

Does the concealed weapons bill change who can buy a firearm?

No, the same rules apply. You must be a resident 21 or older unless you are a law enforcement or corrections officer or are in military service. There are restrictions on gun ownership for people convicted of a felony, dishonorably discharged, adjudicated mentally defective or involuntarily committed to treatment, convicted of a domestic violence misdemeanor or other conditions recognized by the state.

Can I conceal any weapon I want?

Any weapon you are allowed to own in Florida. Machine guns, or fully automatic weapons are still prohibited, as are short-barreled rifles and "destructive devices" such as bombs, grenades, or similar devices "containing an explosive, incendiary, or poison gas."

Is open carry, permitless carry or "constitutional carry" legal in Florida?

No.

Openly carrying a gun is illegal in Florida. It's a second-degree misdemeanor with a $500 fine or a maximum of 60 days in jail, with exemptions for law enforcement, corrections officers, game wardens, forest officials, military, guards, members of firearms clubs while at gatherings or traveling to and from them, people on firing ranges, people who manufacture firearms while they're on the job, and anyone "engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition," according to Florida Statute 790.25, which has led to some Second Amendment supporters organizing gatherings of armed fishermen in highly public places.

Apart from that, Florida is one of only five states that do not allow guns to be carried visibly, even for those holding licenses, according to U.S. Concealed Carry. (State law provides exceptions for legal hunters.)

A quick primer:

What does open carry mean?

"Open carry" means you can publicly carry a legally owned firearm that is kept in plain sight or partially concealed, usually holstered. Some states require a separate permit or license for this, most do not. Three states — California, Illinois and Florida — currently ban open carry.

What does concealed carry mean?

"Concealed carry" means you can publicly carry a legally owned firearm that is hidden from view. Concealed carry is currently legal in all 50 states but some states, including Florida before this bill, require special training and a license before it is allowed.

"Permitless carry" or "constitutional carry" allows both, without permits, licensing or training.


When does Florida permitless carry start?

The law goes into effect July 1.

Do I still need a license to carry a concealed weapon in Florida?

No. But you must carry valid identification at all times you are carrying a concealed weapon, which a law enforcement officer may ask to see at any time. Violation of this means a $25 fine.

Carrying a concealed firearm if you are prohibited from owning a firearm is a third-degree felony.

Will I need a concealed weapons license to conceal carry a gun outside of Florida?

If wherever you're going requires them, yes. Florida’s concealed weapons permitting, no longer required here under the bill, would continue for residents who may want permits to allow them to carry their concealed weapons to other states under reciprocity agreements.

Do I need a license to buy a gun in Florida?

Florida does not require a permit or license to buy a gun and does not require registration.

There is no limit on the number of firearms you can own or buy in a single transaction. Background checks are required and there is a three-day waiting period, although individual counties and cities may extend them up to five days.

Florida firearms:What you need to know about buying a gun in Florida

What happens if my concealed weapon is briefly exposed?

According to the bill it's OK to "briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense."

Showing it off quickly is OK, brandishing it or threatening someone with it when it's not necessary for self-defense is not and is also a third-degree felony.

Can I carry a concealed weapon anywhere in Florida?

No. The bill spells out a lengthy list of places where open and concealed weapons are restricted:

• Any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05 (sort of an open term that includes places that endanger the health of the community, become "manifestly injurious to the morals or manners" of the community, or "annoy the community" such as prostitution dens, illegal gambling halls, specified massage parlors and anywhere criminal gang activity happens
• Any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station
• Any detention facility, prison, or jail
• Any courthouse
• Any courtroom (although judges can carry concealed weapons or determine if someone else can)
• Any polling place
• Any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district
• Any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof
• Any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms
• Any elementary or secondary school facility or administration building
• Any career center
• Anywhere in an establishment primarily devoted to dispensing alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises
• Any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member there and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and doesn't fire a dart or projectile
• The inside of the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, unless it's encased for shipment to be checked as baggage
• Any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law

What if I don't live in Florida and want to conceal carry? Does Florida have reciprocity?

Yes. Non-residents may carry concealed weapons or firearms provided they are 21 or older and not prevented by Florida law to possess them for any other reason. The age requirement doesn't apply to servicemembers or veterans.

 

[Jazzman1218]

The majority of American citizens, including Floridians, want gun safety measures like universal background checks, closing the gun show loophole, a ban on assault weapons and large capacity magazines, red flag laws, and eliminating the sales of unassembled ghost guns. Florida's answer is to okay concealed carry with no license or training. That's ridiculous.

 

[Womaniser]

The majority of American citizens, including Floridians, want gun safety measures like universal background checks, closing the gun show loophole, a ban on assault weapons and large capacity magazines, red flag laws, and eliminating the sales of unassembled ghost guns. Florida's answer is to okay concealed carry with no license or training. That's ridiculous.

They will replace the deaths by prohibiting abortion !

 

[Carmine Falcone]

The majority of American citizens, including Floridians, want gun safety measures like universal background checks, closing the gun show loophole, a ban on assault weapons and large capacity magazines, red flag laws, and eliminating the sales of unassembled ghost guns. Florida's answer is to okay concealed carry with no license or training. That's ridiculous.

Texas is one of the most permissive states when it comes to gun laws. None of that stops their citizens from being subject to mass shootings. The mass shooter always has the element of surprise on his side. To be sure, your chance of defending yourself with a gun increases in a one-on-one confrontation, but all these gun owners thinking they'll magically turn into Bruce Willis in Die Hard in the event of a mass shooting have been watching too many movies.

(When the Aurora, Colorado movie theater shooting happened, the Trump supporter in my department said he could have taken down the shooter. Not only did that shooting happen in a darkened movie theater with people running around for their lives during the melee, the shooter also had on body armor. If my co-worker theoretically shot back, he would have been making the situation by hitting other innocent people. So Trump supporters are at least consistent in their delusions)

The way to make everyone safer isn't to let everyone have a gun. The way to make everyone safe is to severely limit the people allowed access to guns. That's the main difference between our country and every industrialized country that doesn't suffer gun tragedies on a daily basis. Other countries have impetuous and mentally unstable people too.

EDIT: it's pretty divorced from the facts to suggest good guys can now carry guns thanks to permitless carry. 'Good" guys have always had this access. It may surprise you to know I once had a concealed carry permit. I worked in a very rough area of town at the time. (Incidentally, my instincts about the area were proven correct because someone eventually pulled a gun on me. But I'm likely alive because I didn't try to pull my gun). By not requiring a permit, people that would likely be prohibited from carrying are going to exploit the law too.

 

[CaptRenault]

The way to make everyone safe is to severely limit the people allowed access to guns.

The way to make everyone safe is to crack down hard on thugs who use illegal guns to kill and wound innocent people. Arrest them, prosecute them and throw them in jail and keep them there for a long time. People who legally own a gun and do not use it to commit a crime should be left alone.

 

[Carmine Falcone]

The way to make everyone safe is to crack down hard on thugs who use illegal guns to kill and wound innocent people. Arrest them, prosecute them and throw them in jail and keep them there for a long time. People who legally own a gun and do not use it to commit a crime should be left alone.

What fantasy world are you living in? You do realize that nearly 100% of mass shooters legally bought their guns, right? That even in a country with so many guns that it is far easier to buy one above board at a store than buy one off some shady dude?

There is no way for the system or government to know what intent someone has when they buy a gun. I don't begrudge anyone who shoots gun for a hobby. I've partaken in target and clay shooting. Is it fun? Yeah. But when your hobby can also abet the death of random, innocent people then we need a change. If my hobby of music and women had the same collateral damage on society as guns do, I'd say the same thing.

 

[Womaniser]

What fantasy world are you living in? You do realize that nearly 100% of mass shooters legally bought their guns, right? That even in a country with so many guns that it is far easier to buy one above board at a store than buy one off some shady dude?

There is no way for the system or government to know what intent someone has when they buy a gun. I don't begrudge anyone who shoots gun for a hobby. I've partaken in target and clay shooting. Is it fun? Yeah. But when your hobby can also abet the death of random, innocent people then we need a change. If my hobby of music and women had the same collateral damage on society as guns do, I'd say the same thing.

Mass shooting isn't done with clay shooting shotguns, bolt or pump action hunting rifles.
Mass shooting is done with war (assault) weapons.
In Canada, the last mass shooting in Nova Scotia in 2020, with assault type rifles (Ruger mini 14 and AR15 rifle).

 

[Carmine Falcone]

Mass shooting isn't done with clay shooting shotguns, bolt or pump action hunting rifles.
Mass shooting is done with war (assault) weapons.
In Canada, the last mass shooting in Nova Scotia in 2020, with assault type rifles (Ruger mini 14 and AR15 rifle).

There is no doubt that AR-style rifles are more accurate and are the gun of choice for most recent mass shooters. But here is the thing most people miss: any semiautomatic, including a pistol, can kill several people within a matter of seconds.

To that point, we've had a number of mass shootings committed with handguns that had higher death tolls than mass shootings where an AR-15 type weapon was used. The most obvious example is the 2007 VA Tech shooting where 32 people were killed with two handguns. The shooter had 17 magazines that were a mix of 15-round and 10-round in capacity. Not only are those are a lot of magazines with high capacity (especially the 15 round ones), but he also used hollow point rounds which are far deadlier inside the body than full metal jacket rounds. So even if all you had was a handgun, you can get into double digit death tolls fairly quickly with a good shooter with a lot of magazines.

Keep in mind too at the time the VA shooting happened, there was a limit on how many handguns you can buy per month (one). There are several gun-friendly states where no such purchase limit exists, to say nothing of limits on magazine and ammunition purchases. (In an 11-month period, the 2017 Las Vegas shooter bought 33 guns, of which most were rifles).

The US government clearly recognizes the potential public danger of certain types of guns. That's why fully automatic weapons require full registration with the government since at least 1934. Private ownership of fully automatic guns has been further curtailed since 1986. This isn't to say there aren't loopholes by which you can own an automatic gun (an 8 to 10 month background check, for starters), but it's far harder to access. But it's also a distinction without a difference when semiautomatics can kill just as many, if not more, than automatics (semiautomatics are considered more accurate because the recoil is less).

Banning AR-15s will definitely help, but it won't stop mass shootings. The main thing that will curtail the random violence is severely limited civilian ownership of guns, an intractable proposition given that over 300 million guns and counting are already in circulation--and there is no political appetite for that even among the marginally pro gun control Democrats. In other words, we're fucked.

 

[Jazzman1218]

There is no doubt that AR-style rifles are more accurate and are the gun of choice for most recent mass shooters. But here is the thing most people miss: any semiautomatic, including a pistol, can kill several people within a matter of seconds.

To that point, we've had a number of mass shootings committed with handguns that had higher death tolls than mass shootings where an AR-15 type weapon was used. The most obvious example is the 2007 VA Tech shooting where 32 people were killed with two handguns. The shooter had 17 magazines that were a mix of 15-round and 10-round in capacity. Not only are those are a lot of magazines with high capacity (especially the 15 round ones), but he also used hollow point rounds which are far deadlier inside the body than full metal jacket rounds. So even if all you had was a handgun, you can get into double digit death tolls fairly quickly with a good shooter with a lot of magazines.

Keep in mind too at the time the VA shooting happened, there was a limit on how many handguns you can buy per month (one). There are several gun-friendly states where no such purchase limit exists, to say nothing of limits on magazine and ammunition purchases. (In an 11-month period, the 2017 Las Vegas shooter bought 33 guns, of which most were rifles).

The US government clearly recognizes the potential public danger of certain types of guns. That's why fully automatic weapons require full registration with the government since at least 1934. Private ownership of fully automatic guns has been further curtailed since 1986. This isn't to say there aren't loopholes by which you can own an automatic gun (an 8 to 10 month background check, for starters), but it's far harder to access. But it's also a distinction without a difference when semiautomatics can kill just as many, if not more, than automatics (semiautomatics are considered more accurate because the recoil is less).

Banning AR-15s will definitely help, but it won't stop mass shootings. The main thing that will curtail the random violence is severely limited civilian ownership of guns, an intractable proposition given that over 300 million guns and counting are already in circulation--and there is no political appetite for that even among the marginally pro gun control Democrats. In other words, we're fucked.

Clearly we are already fucked, but we still need to take action and do something. Anything because thoughts and prayers isn't working. Banning new sales of assault weapons and high capacity magazines is a start. I would also favor an assault weapon buy-back program.

 

[CaptRenault]

...we still need to take action and do something...

What if we arrested, prosecuted and jailed for a very long time the thugs that use illegal guns to commit violent crimes?

Maybe that would work better than taking all guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. Just a thought.

 

[CaptRenault]

In a column this week about the firing of CNN head Chris Licht, Ann Coulter lists some recent mass shootings that leftists want to put in the memory hole as soon as possible.

CNN: If It Bores, It Scores! - Ann Coulter

Anticipating this brutal column, CNN has just fired Chris Licht. If the next chairman plans to last any longer, he’d better implement these changes right away! At the risk of raising a topic even more…

anncoulter.com

...Here’s some “follow the facts” reporting CNN absolutely refuses to do. The network provides breathless bulletins whenever there’s a mass shooting, but as soon as the suspect turns out NOT to be a straight white male, it’s back to Ukraine.

Somewhere in the media right now (probably MSNBC), someone is talking about Dylann Roof, the monster who murdered nine people at a black church in South Carolina. That happened eight years and three presidents ago. But mass shootings this year keep mysteriously disappearing from the news.

January: two mass shootings of Asians in California just days apart, including the deadliest shooting in Los Angeles history. Eighteen killed in all. Gunmen in both cases Chinese immigrants, Huu Can Tran and Chunli Zhao.

The end!

February: Active shooter at Michigan State University kills three students, sends five to hospital. Gunman: Anthony Dwayne McRae, a 43-year-old black man.

The end!

March: mass shooting at a Christian school in Nashville, killing three 9-year-olds and three adults. Gunman: Audrey Elizabeth Hale, a transgender.

The end!

But she left a manifesto!

Media: Go away. We’re not interested.

April: horrific shooting at a 16-year-old’s birthday party in Dadeville, Alabama, leaving four dead — three of them teenagers — and wounding 32 others. Arrested: Johnny Letron Brown, Willie George Brown Jr., Wilson LaMar Hill, Travis McCullough and Tyreese McCullough.

The end!

Last day of April: slaughter of five family members, including a 9-year-old boy, all shot execution-style, in Texas. Arrested: an illegal from Mexico.

The end!

 

[Carmine Falcone]

What if we arrested, prosecuted and jailed for a very long time the thugs that use illegal guns to commit violent crimes?

Maybe that would work better than taking all guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. Just a thought.

At this point, you either don't understand the entire scope of how liberal firearm policies fuel everyday violence--or you're being willfully obtuse.

 

[Womaniser]

At this point, you either don't understand the entire scope of how liberal firearm policies fuel everyday violence--or you're being willfully obtuse.

Exactly, can we arrest and put in jail thugs before they first commit violent crimes ?
I can't see how.

 

[Carmine Falcone]

Exactly, can we arrest and put in jail thugs before they first commit violent crimes ?
I can't see how.

In Captain Renault's fantasy world, we already have the precognition device from the movie Minority Report that lets the police know who is about to commit a crime before they commit it.

 

[CaptRenault]

At this point, you either don't understand the entire scope of how liberal firearm policies fuel everyday violence--or you're being willfully obtuse.

At this point, you either don't understand how progressive policies on crime, police and guns fuel everyday violence-or you're being willfully obtuse.

 

[CaptRenault]

In Captain Renault's fantasy world, we already have the precognition device from the movie Minority Report that lets the police know who is about to commit a crime before they commit it.

In Carmine's progressive fantasy world, career criminals can commit one violent felony after another and get out on bail or parole time after time to commit more violent crimes.

 

[CaptRenault]

Last night in downtown Denver a mass shooting happened near the end of the celebration of the Nuggets' winning the NBA title. The shooting is in the news today, but like many other mass shootings that fail to delight progressives, this one will be quickly memory-holed. Why? See my post above and Ann Coulter's explanation:

The network [CNN] provides breathless bulletins whenever there’s a mass shooting, but as soon as the suspect turns out NOT to be a straight white male, it’s back to Ukraine.

Somewhere in the media right now (probably MSNBC), someone is talking about Dylann Roof, the monster who murdered nine people at a black church in South Carolina. That happened eight years and three presidents ago. But mass shootings this year keep mysteriously disappearing from the news.

Here is an article about the shooting. Read it now before it gets memory-holed. As is often the case, thugs with illegal guns and criminal records were responsible for the mass shooting. The only way to stop this kind of tragedy is to put such people in jail and keep them there forever or until they are so old and infirm that they pose no threat to society.

It might also be helpful for Biden to get control of the southern border and stop encouraging mass illegal immigration and importation of fentanyl by Mexican drug cartels. But Biden is too busy celebrating mentally ill men who pretend to be women on the lawn of the White House.

Two gunfights, one drug-related, send 11 people to hospital after Nuggets' win

At least 11 people were hospitalized with gunshot wounds after two separate gunfights broke out in the heart of downtown Denver after the Nuggets' NBA championship win. The first shooting happened at around 11:30 at 1441 Court Place located behind the Wellington Webb Municipal Office building.

gazette.com

Two men have been arrested on weapons-related charges, police said.

Ricardo Vazquez, 22, is being held on suspicion of possession of a weapon by a previous offender and possession of a controlled substance. Raoul Jones, 33, is being held on a charge of possession of a weapon by a previous offender.

 

[Jazzman1218]

Last night in downtown Denver a mass shooting happened near the end of the celebration of the Nuggets' winning the NBA title. The shooting is in the news today, but like many other mass shootings that fail to delight progressives, this one will be quickly memory-holed. Why? See my post above and Ann Coulter's explanation:

The network [CNN] provides breathless bulletins whenever there’s a mass shooting, but as soon as the suspect turns out NOT to be a straight white male, it’s back to Ukraine.

Somewhere in the media right now (probably MSNBC), someone is talking about Dylann Roof, the monster who murdered nine people at a black church in South Carolina. That happened eight years and three presidents ago. But mass shootings this year keep mysteriously disappearing from the news.

Here is an article about the shooting. Read it now before it gets memory-holed. As is often the case, thugs with illegal guns and criminal records were responsible for the mass shooting. The only way to stop this kind of tragedy is to put such people in jail and keep them there forever or until they are so old and infirm that they pose no threat to society.

It might also be helpful for Biden to get control of the southern border and stop encouraging mass illegal immigration and importation of fentanyl by Mexican drug cartels. But Biden is too busy celebrating mentally ill men who pretend to be women on the lawn of the White House.

Two gunfights, one drug-related, send 11 people to hospital after Nuggets' win

At least 11 people were hospitalized with gunshot wounds after two separate gunfights broke out in the heart of downtown Denver after the Nuggets' NBA championship win. The first shooting happened at around 11:30 at 1441 Court Place located behind the Wellington Webb Municipal Office building.

gazette.com

Two men have been arrested on weapons-related charges, police said.

Ricardo Vazquez, 22, is being held on suspicion of possession of a weapon by a previous offender and possession of a controlled substance. Raoul Jones, 33, is being held on a charge of possession of a weapon by a previous offender.

View attachment 52576

There's a mass shooting every day in America. That reality is a national disgrace. This crime was reported in the news. It did not involve the slaughter of innocent children at school or innocent citizens in a church, supermarket, music festival, etc that are even more newsworthy events. And, in case you hadn't noticed, there's other news that needs to be reported right now like the indictment, arrest, and arrangement of the former POTUS on 37 counts of hoarding, lying, obstruction of justice, and refusing to return secret documents that impact our national security. Unlike mass shootings in America, prosecuting an ex-POTUS does not happen every day.

 

[CaptRenault]

And, in case you hadn't noticed, there's other news that needs to be reported right now like the indictment, arrest, and arrangement of the former POTUS...

As Ann Coulter explained, leftists immediately change the subject when confronted with news that they don't like. On MERB, the new subject is always Trump, Trump, Trump.

 

[Womaniser]

As Ann Coulter explained, leftists immediately change the subject when confronted with news that they don't like. On MERB, the new subject is always Trump, Trump, Trump.

And for excellent reasons !