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Doc Holliday

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Sep 27, 2003
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Impressive road wins last night by Montreal, over Washington, and Boston, over Toronto. Both the Habs and Bruins are looking good, especially on offense. Meanwhile Toronto does not look so good. Their development as a team seems to have stagnated. To me they have been more disappointing than TB so far. Toronto is only ahead of TB in the standings because they have 5 games in hand. TB has only played 16 games and their record is deceptively good. But right now Boston and Montreal rule the division and one can envision a Habs-Bruins Eastern Conference fnal, bringing back memories of the good old days.

It's still early into the season. Just a year ago in January the worse team in the league were the St Louis Blues and they ended up squeaking into the playoffs and then winning the Stanley Cup.

However, the Leafs have indeed struggled although they're still 2nd in the league in scoring. Injuries have hurt them throughout the season and now one of their best players (Mitch Marner) is out for at least a month. Another player got hurt last night (shoulder) and tonight their new backup goalie will make his NHL debut in Pittsburgh.

The Leafs have also had a very tough schedule to deal with. They've had many back-to-back games and their former backup goalie would play all the back-to-back games and couldn't stop a beach ball if his life depended on it! In Chicago last Sunday they had 56 shots on net yet the Hawks scored 6 goals against Hutchison. Enough was enough and he was put on waivers the following day.

Leafs Nation wants Babcock fired but i can't see this happening yet since he still has 3 years left to go on a contract which pays him $5 million per season. I doubt the team's shareholders and board of directors will agree to having someone stay at home for the next three years while getting paid $15 million!

In my opinion Babcock's not the problem. He's stuck coaching players given to him by GM Kyle Dubas. Dubas is the one who bungled the backup goalie situation last season by letting Curtis Mclhinney & Calvin Pikard go in favor of Garrett Sparks, who ended up going to Vegas following last season. Dubas is the one who made the trade which sent Nazem Kadri to Colorado for Tyson Barrie & Alex Kerfoot. Kerfoot's been good but Barrie's been absolutely awful. Dubas is also the one who traded Connor Brown & Nikita Zaitsev to Ottawa for Cody Cecci. Cecci's been okay but he's overused and used improperly mostly because of Travis Dermott's injury. But Connor Brown, like Kadri was a premiere penalty killer and a dependable player. Dubas also chose not to re-sign dependable veteran defenceman Ron Hainsey. And veteran player & leader Patrick Marleau was shipped off to Carolina but Dubas needed to make the move in order to clear up cap space in order to re-sign Mitch Marner. And he chose not to re-sign the skilled Jake Gardiner, who wanted to stay in Toronto but the organization felt he had to leave...mostly for cap reasons.

I believe the Leafs were a better team last season. They had Kadri, Marleau, Hainsey, Zaitsev, Brown and Gardiner. Garrett Sparks was a decent backup as compared to what they have now. The big difference this season is that their special teams suck!! When you consider that the players they lost in trades or chose not to re-sign were key elements on their special teams well you don't have to go very far to figure out where the problem lies.
 

EagerBeaver

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Jul 11, 2003
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Doc,

You are right that it's still early and things could change. For example, I do not really believe that after winning the Vezina Trophy last year, and getting an 8 year, $76 million contract extension as a reward over the summer, Vasilevskiiy is as bad as his 38th position among 50 qualifying goalies. I would like to think by season's end, he will at least be in the top 15. For the money TB is paying him and for that team's sake, I hope so, anyway.

Regarding Hutchison, everyone in this thread knew it was only a matter of time before the Leafs were forced to waive him. What I do not understand was why they had to rely on him as a backup in the first place and why they could not afford a better cheap backup goalie in the first place. It seems like the going rate for a solid backup is $2-2.5 Million a year, so with Hutchison ($700,000) I don't think they were saving all that much money. Dubas basically decided, this is where we are going to save money, but for a measly $1.3 million savings, you got the performance you got while guys making $2.5 million a year are in the top 15 as backup goalies.
 

jalimon

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Dec 28, 2015
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Aren't saving percentage a bit overated for goalie? The team with the worst defense will have their goalie receiving much more shot. Making the % higher for the goalie then another one from a good team who does not receive much shot. It must go into the equation?

Cheers,
 

EagerBeaver

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Jalimon,

Save % measures the percentage of shots saved, so whether a guy is facing more or less shots has nothing to do with his %. Your post makes no sense to me and I don’t understand your point.

Whether a goalie is saving 18 of 20 shots or 27 of 30, the percentage is the same- 90%. It doesn’t measure the number of goals allowed. You are thinking of GAA- that’s the stat penalizes goalies facing more shots. That’s why I used save % and not goals against average.
 

Sol Tee Nutz

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Apr 29, 2012
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Look behind you.
^^^^^^ UP 2 Actually save percentage is the best way to tell a goalie quality. You could be mistaken with GAA.

Look, let’s be clear: no one stat can explain everything about any player. That being said, save percentage is the best widely available indicator currently in existence for measuring the quality of a goalie’s play

EB posted while I was posting
 

jalimon

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Hum indeed mixed up the 2 stats. GAA is always the stats used by commentator and each time I roll my eyes...

As a soccer coach, which may be different in hockey I dont' know, what I look at is the number of times my goal keeper will allow a weak goal. Either by wrong positioning or mistake. If they do too much of those, no improvement, I know I either remove/replace him (but not during a game like in hockey). I call it my "give the team a chance" ratio ;) But in soccer a goal keeper will not get and stop many shots.

Cheers,
 

gaby

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Jul 31, 2011
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Making his debut tonight and coming directly from the Marlies-- with a pct of 0,928 this year--KASIMIR KASKISUO will b in the net tonight for the Leafs........i really wish him well for his first start.....
 

Sol Tee Nutz

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Look behind you.
^^^^^ I always like to see new players do well but a good friend of mine is a Leafs fan, he is not very pleasant towards other teams when the Leafs are winning, it is nice that he is quite now.
 

EagerBeaver

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Making his debut tonight and coming directly from the Marlies-- with a pct of 0,928 this year--KASIMIR KASKISUO will b in the net tonight for the Leafs........i really wish him well for his first start.....

More on Kaskisuo in this Toronto Star article. He seems to have earned his promotion with his play with the Marlies, but the NHL is a big step up and the shots will come faster and harder:

https://www.thestar.com/sports/leaf...wer-behind-andersen-hell-get-a-full-shot.html
 

gaby

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PIT 6 TOR 1......one word...HORRIBLE....that's all,

EICHEL 4 OTT 2....wow....4 goals for the kid.:yo:......another great performance by CONNOR and LEON and great win

SHARKS.....sixth straight win....they are playing better and better..
 

Sol Tee Nutz

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Look behind you.
^^^^^ The Oilers did not win, went from 4-2 to an OT loss. The 2 did get points though.
 

jalimon

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If the Leafs fires Babcock they need to make sure to a have a fucking great replacement...

He is not able to find solutions to make his team win right now but he is not the problem. And Toronto is panicking way too early.
 

EagerBeaver

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Jalimon,

In pro sports, when a team underachieves, and it’s the GM’s fault more than the coach’s, the coach always gets fired first, because (1) shit flows downhill and those at the lower end of the totem pole have to go first; (2) firing the coach buys the GM extra time (usually at least a year or two under the successor coach) before he too is fired. This is the way it works in all pro sports, always has and always will. If the Toronto underachievement continues, Babcock will be fired and Dubas, if he plays his cards right, and I believe he will, will paint Babcock as “not my guy” (and he wasn’t Dubas guy- Lamoriello hired him), and then bring in a coach perceived to be “Dubas guy who can coach up Dubas players”. That is what you and the Leafs fans will be sold, whether you want to buy it or not is up to you. That “play” buys Dubas another two years, and if there is still no improvement, then both Dubas and “his coach” will be fired at once and a new leadership regime will be installed.

This is the world of pro sports and when you have a team languishing in 10th place which is really 12th place with the games in hand over #11 and #12, and your team is viewed as top 2 in talent, it’s not going to be accepted by fans, media, management, or Doc Holliday.
 

Sol Tee Nutz

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Apr 29, 2012
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Look behind you.
The Leafs now appear to be like the Oilers in the past, good players but not a team. The players do not respect management or coaches and it shows. Look at how many coaches and managers the Oilers fired, good it did.... zero. Lack of defence and goalies seems to be the problem mostly plus too many high paid stars. I mentioned in the past that Draisaitl's contract at the time probably pissed off a lot of players since he sucked first year after the huge deal went through, same could be with Nylander and his contract.
Do not think Babcock would care as he would still get paid a lot for 3 years. Call Kevin Lowe, he would be interested :)
There are still 60 games left, I would be concerned but would not panic yet.
 

No_Church_InThe_Wild

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EB is right it almost always starts from the top , the good and the bad . I’ve been following the Leafs a bit more than before the last 4,5 years . And even though my hockey knowledge is very limited I was never sold on their new general manager. I think Shanahsn should have never hired the rookie and as for Babcock he is not a bad coach, just not the right coach for Toronto . You need someone that can deal with the pressure and expectations of coaching in Toronto . Lots of talent on that team but he has been largely ineffective. And like STN said it seems the players do not really respect Dubas and management. I never thought of them highly and I think I podted a comment about that when they lost in the playoffs. It’s not about just making the playoffs because they could turn things around get in . It’s about winning it all and with their current GM and coach I don’t see it happening . They need better leadership at the top and when I see it I recognize it
 

Sol Tee Nutz

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Look behind you.
Oilers did good again, 5 - 2 over the Sharks.
 

gaby

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Jul 31, 2011
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NYI 5 PIT 4...another big win for the Isles in OT....they are on fire....with no superstar BUT a great coach.
 
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