Basing a choice of action on race is racism. It doesn't matter what the action is. There's no way to rationalize around it. If an escort finds a certain type of person objectionable that's different. If it's wholesale banning of a race it's racism regardless of the reason. I agree it's the escorts rightful choice regardless of any reason to refuse anyone service but saying it's not racism to refuse based on color because it's too intimate is a very thin rationalized excuse.
Race/Ethinicity Question
- Thread starter rbrown1000
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Sorry Passionné but I do not agree. The SP that do not see black guy are not being hostile to them. And that is what racism is all about, being hostile to a group of people based on their race.
Cheers,
Thank you for taking the time to post this, and to Maria and others who responded with thoughtful answers. I was getting frustrated by the posts avoiding the question by saying "SPs can see whom they want to see" or "SPs don't have to explain." Both statements are obviously true but beside the point; they don't explain why many SPs refuse to see men of color. There is no other comparable restriction (other than age, presumably). Clearly there are cultural reasons for the tag "no black men," and I appreciate the interesting answers.
Well, we will have to disagree. But I did not say it was a hostile act. Passive racism is still racism. There are some thin rationalizations that can be used. Higher rates of objectionable activities for instance. But a 100% ban by color for any reason is what it is.
All respects Jalimon
100% correct. There was no hostility here. In fact, according to his story, race was not even given as a reason for the "refusal", he simply implied from what she said to him or assumed she was motivated by racism, as opposed to some other concern. Also, he said he walked out before the girl technically refused him, which in his mind she did by asking him questions about where he was from. Asking a question is not hostility. Although the reported behavior of the girl was strange and suggested a refusal, we should remember no technical refusal occurred here. No racist statement was made. Instead he just walked out, and then did not call the agency to discuss what had happened, but instead started a thread implying XO was condoning racist behavior. Those are the reported facts that we know so far pending results of Sam's investigation of the matter.
Doesn't it depend on their reason for not seeing black men? It seems to me that we can't conclude whether it's hostile (racist) or not unless we have a better sense of why (some) SPs advertise "no black men." I mean that individually and collectively. On an individual basis, obviously it's very possible that some SPs are racist--or that they have their own personal reasons that may not be racist. Collectively, it seems much harder to determine whether the restriction is racist or not, hence my questions about the cultural implications of that troubling tag.
I understand your point. You may be right indeed but I do not what to adhere to passive racism being racism because then we are all racist. Let's face it frankly, we all made decision at some point in our life based on the race of the other person/group. It would be a lie to say otherwise.
Cheer,
The focus in most posts has been on is whether refusal based on color is racism. It's a legit question.
However, some things have been questionable since the start of this. Why walk out before being rejected? Why not call XO to discuss what happened before posting? Was there a clear moment when race was the issue? As someone said much earlier was there a mutual misunderstanding? Was it attitude on the part of either or both that got in the way? Why no more detailed explanation of what happened beyond the client assuming race was the problem?
Then there's this below.
These kinds of reports need to be based on a clear understanding of who is involved and what really happened. There are a number of important misses and shortcomings in this case.
It could be a lot of reasons. Time, opportunity, arrogance, more. However I totally agree there should always be mutual agreement and hopefully some attraction to make the most of a meeting. But there are those who have a thing about aggression.
There are human elements that unfairly make connections to limited information and perceptions that we tend to attach to races and ethnicity.
However, some things have been questionable since the start of this. Why walk out before being rejected? Why not call XO to discuss what happened before posting? Was there a clear moment when race was the issue? As someone said much earlier was there a mutual misunderstanding? Was it attitude on the part of either or both that got in the way? Why no more detailed explanation of what happened beyond the client assuming race was the problem?
Then there's this below.
These kinds of reports need to be based on a clear understanding of who is involved and what really happened. There are a number of important misses and shortcomings in this case.
It could be a lot of reasons. Time, opportunity, arrogance, more. However I totally agree there should always be mutual agreement and hopefully some attraction to make the most of a meeting. But there are those who have a thing about aggression.
There are human elements that unfairly make connections to limited information and perceptions that we tend to attach to races and ethnicity.
The #1 answer to this question is Ego, and who knows if that isn't at work here. A rejected guy may think, "hey, I am good looking, well dressed, well-mannered, fit, have money, who the hell is she to reject me?" The OP in this thread never thought to mention his race when booking as jonathankeeves reports that he does regularly when booking. This also could be due to ego- jonathan a realist who realizes that all women might not like him and he seeks to avoid rejection and wastes of his time in advance, whereas the OP may have believed that he was an unlikely candidate for rejection given his physical profile, but he was shocked to find out otherwise. jonathankeeves has an MO that shields him from the pain of rejection in advance, whereas the OP did not.
I agree with EB, EGO.
+ when the genius' brain falls into his balls + he thinks he's God on earth because he's "paying" = the EGO skyrockets out of control, just like the John.
As stated, it should always be seen as: my body, my choice
Dou Man is 100% dead on with this, I have even observed this in my own friends. I recall a Seeking Arrangement girl walking out of a dinner date with a good friend of mine and him telling me about it, as if it was an outrage to humanity. I have seen this guy in action with women and how he talks to women he has just met because I have taken him on trips to Montreal. He tends to be far more aggressive in his tone and in trying to move things along and it spooks some women, understandably. But in his head his rap was amazing and the SA girl is a "fucking head case". As an objective observer of his behavior I don't think that is how women see it. He is good looking, well dressed and has money, but some girls want a guy to go slow and when he doesn't, they are unnerved, in this case to the point of walking out on a dinner date.
Although he is my friend, I have never mentioned this to him because he is 43 years old and a grown man and I do not believe one should critque one's own friend's MOs, even though he has criticized me for not being aggressive enough.
J
jonathankeeves
I am new to this hobby compared to many of you and might even be one of the youngest member on the board, I don't know.
I would say recently almost all of my experience have been 10/10 or even more. It has all about chemistry and being respectful and clean. If racism was a factor, my experience would have never been 10/10.
The important thing is, I know that my experience has been good and I have the confidence that an sp won't reject me for my race, but still if it is someone new that I am going to see, I always tell them about my race and age and make sure that they feel comfortable about it or they at least know. I don't want them to have any bad surprise. Some Sp's might have had a bad experience with someone from my race or may feel uncomfortable for any reason, in my mind I know that the SP will comfortable with me, but if because of some reason or some bad experience she had, she doesn't want to see anyone from my race, it is her choice. On the other hand, I know I am still getting amazing experience with other amazing SP's and my race is not a concern for them but I still respect all. Personally I have my choice to see the sp i want, so there is nothing wrong for the sp in rejecting someone
My experience with XO girls till now has been stellar. So I highly doubt it can be an XO girl.
I would say recently almost all of my experience have been 10/10 or even more. It has all about chemistry and being respectful and clean. If racism was a factor, my experience would have never been 10/10.
The important thing is, I know that my experience has been good and I have the confidence that an sp won't reject me for my race, but still if it is someone new that I am going to see, I always tell them about my race and age and make sure that they feel comfortable about it or they at least know. I don't want them to have any bad surprise. Some Sp's might have had a bad experience with someone from my race or may feel uncomfortable for any reason, in my mind I know that the SP will comfortable with me, but if because of some reason or some bad experience she had, she doesn't want to see anyone from my race, it is her choice. On the other hand, I know I am still getting amazing experience with other amazing SP's and my race is not a concern for them but I still respect all. Personally I have my choice to see the sp i want, so there is nothing wrong for the sp in rejecting someone
My experience with XO girls till now has been stellar. So I highly doubt it can be an XO girl.
You know in my regular day to day business over the past 17 years, and still to this day, I have avoided doing business with a few race/group (and no, blacks are not one of them!). Experience taught me that each projects done with client from these origin have lead to problems, delays, bad or wrong data that leads to impossible task,objectives of delivery that changes, not being paid, being paid half, ... So now no I say fuck it, I refuse all offer from them. I am being a racist? Maybe. For me I don't think so. I am not being hostile in any way. Just protecting who I do business with to keep my business profitable while maintaining my sanity
There is a similarity here. SP can simply say no to a specific race while not being viewed as racist.
Cheers,
It is the psychology of wanting what you cannot have. Check if someone has a diamond then you really want it. Once you have it you could not care less anymore. It is more pleasurable to want then to have it. It is the same psychology of some women always trying to go after taken men. When these men are single they are not interested anymore.
Personally i said all i had to say in this thread, it keep going in circle since a while and some people are entitled to there opinion. So thats it for me.
You know in my regular day to day business over the past 17 years, and still to this day, I have avoided doing business with a few race/group (and no, blacks are not one of them!). Experience taught me that each projects done with client from these origin have lead to problems, delays, bad or wrong data that leads to impossible task,objectives of delivery that changes, not being paid, being paid half, ... So now no I say fuck it, I refuse all offer from them. I am being a racist? Maybe. For me I don't think so. I am not being hostile in any way. Just protecting who I do business with to keep my business profitable while maintaining my sanity
There is a similarity here. SP can simply say no to a specific race while not being viewed as racist.
Cheers,
jalimon, just to be clear, I'm not at all suggesting you're racist. You have a reason for your decisions based on experience, and I'm not challenging that.
And after reading this thread I think you're right that an SP "can simply say no to a specific race while not being viewed as a racist." At the same time, an SP might also say "no" for racist reasons. It depends on the reasons.
It's totally unfair to XO to close the thread until Sam's investigation is completed and he has a chance to respond to the accusation of racism by one of his escorts. I have no idea why HM said he is done and there has been a suggestion to close the thread. An accusation has been lobbed at XO and they have a right to respond after they conduct their investigation. I have already noted that inappropriate behavior by the OP in not contacting the Booker when the alleged incident occurred has probably hampered the ability of XO to investigate and respond in a timely fashion. Let them respond and then close the thread. I agree with you guys that the thread actually serves no purpose at all but any agency that has had an accusation made against it on MERB has the right to respond.
This is a fact and I see it often. The Whites will always deny its existence since it is not them being discriminated. One example comes to mind is how a lot of Montreal stripclubs artiticially control the racial mix to ensure it is over 95% French Canadian and this is based on the personal preference of the booker. 10/35 has a lot of Black strippers as the owner likes Black girls... The club is working fine... Always lots of customers and many are dancing the Black girls. At Doric same deal. However the manager is sick and was away for some time unable to manage and they had a pro White DJ who took it upon himself to book only White strippers. This guy used to work at Le Scandale as doorman then moved to Kingdom as the DJ and Kingdom is another pro White club. He used to ask the audience if they liked hip hop and then proceeded to say that we do not. They only played rock music. This is a statement that they were sending that they are against Black culture. Now Doric is back to normal the manager is back and they booted out that DJ. While the manager was gone they had a bunch of unattractive out of shape or chubby White girls instead of gorgeous slim Black girls. Weird that race is more important then beauty. I always say that every race has beauty.
A long time ago Oh Caresses in 2004 was discriminating against Black clients... They would ask them to pay $10 cover. To make a long story short someone went to the press about it and it was all over the news. Then from that day they started accepting many Black strippers. The club was very busy. Although it was short lived in 2005 they kicked out all the Black girls. The club went dead and it never picked up again. A few years ago O'Gascon refused entry to four Black gentlemen... These were Black men in their 40's and were dressed properly... Not the ghetto yo yo thugs... Two of them were cops and filed a complaint and O'Gascon had to pay them damages. O'Gascon is another pro White club and plays only techno music... No hip hop allowed. Le Gentlemen refuses Black clients... and so does 10/35. So yes this is not something that will affect White folks.
But rbrown1000 I am a firm believer in that there are always two sides to a story. I like to hear UncleSam's final conclusions. I think people nowadays are too quick to call out racism when it may not be.
From my understanding there is a cancellation fee? No. There should be. The client saw the pictures and booked her. Unless she is not as she is in her pictures... Like being 20Lbs over weight. But this is different I would call this bait and switch. Totally different scenario.
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