Montreal Escorts

Race/Ethinicity Question

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ravenazrael

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Nov 3, 2013
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Racism is a very broad term. It is not limited to what you just said. Discriminating someone based on their racial background or ethnicity is racism.

Your store example actually works against you. If a store refuses to sell something to a guy because he is black, that's racism.
If a service provider refuses to provide service to a man because he is black. That is also racism. As you said, she is free to decide it is a free country after all but don't try to downplay or pass it off for something that it clearly is not.

An escort refusing a black client simply because he is black is the textbook definition of racism.

The store example was not referred to race, was just an example of not selling the item to a customer, meaning that the customer can go somewhere else. plus this is more complex than selling an item.
Regarding racism, I think you are going with the way of thinking that many Snowflakes have nowadays. Not wanting to have sex with a somebody because you are not attracted by some characteristics is not racism.
 

talkinghead

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Aug 15, 2007
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I've been visiting Montreal and southern Quebec for 45 years, and indulging with local companions (and following this board) for a decade. I am deeply interested in the hobby culture and interested as well in how people talk about their experiences and their values. I LIKE this kind of conversation, even though I know that my interests are not always shared. And I know that my politics are to the left of many out here, which is fine. But I also think that those of us who want to can have civil and intelligent discussions about issues related to our shared "hobby."

This thread has at least three components. First, as EB has pointed out, is the OP's original complaint/statement. I think it has been well established here that XO is a reliable and non-discriminatory agency. I am *more* inclined to use their services after reading this thread. Second, there are a large number of posts saying that this thread is useless or bullshit; since such posts only prolong the thread, my advice is that those merbites consider engaging in threads that they find worthwhile.

The third element of this thread is about race, Montreal, and the hobby. I'm quite interested in this part of the thread; again, I'm interested in Montreal, I'm interested in how subcultures work, and I'm interested in the lives/values of both escorts and clients. (I can only repeat: if you're not, that's fine with me, but let it go; that's what this thread is largely about.)

Because I've been thinking about it, and because it's an open forum, I'm going to try to explain (again) the basic problem or misunderstanding that keeps coming up in this conversation, and why I think it has proved frustrating for many. It comes down to this: a number of people out here are treating "no black men" as a *personal,* individual preference. To a degree, it is that. And to the degree that an escort makes choices about whom she sees, then YES it is an individual escort's right to deny service based on any criteria at all. So Tiffany from Agency X may have a black boyfriend (or, as someone said, pimp) and thus prefers not to see black men; or she may have had a number of bad experiences with non-white clients; or she may find black men physically undesirable; or she may think that black men are disproportionately disrespectful to escorts; or she may be a member of the KKK. I don't especially care because, as many, many people have said, it's her right to decide whom she sees. Please, if anyone wants to respond, listen to this: an escort does not have to explain or justify whom she sees, and it is absolutely her right to decline service to anyone based on anything. (The reasons that we need anti-discrimination laws in the US don't seem to apply here, not because it's an unregulated industry but because it would be hard to prove that clients are unfairly penalized because of their race; they are not denied access to power/sex; they have options.)

Now, with the understanding that individual escorts HAVE THE RIGHT to make decisions about their services and their bodies, we can move on to a more interesting discussion. In Montreal, enough escorts advertise "no black men" that it speaks in broader ways about how escorting works in Montreal. That is, it seems to me that we've moved beyond personal preference and individual choice; we've moved into a social or economic or cultural situation. While individual escorts may have individual reasons, when enough share the same approach, it becomes a pattern that implies something about the social, economic, and perhaps sexual practices in the business. The same is true for ANY set of cultural practices. Michael may go to see the Habs to escape his shrewish wife; Oscar is trying to overcome his fear of crowds; Ellen likes the uniforms; but at a certain point enough people are going that we can look at demographics, spending patterns, and social behaviors. And, in the end, we can identify some consistent patterns and underlying causes. (We have not only an entire media but also now academic departments committed to understanding sports behaviors.) And so we can ask: what are the underlying reasons that so many escorts advertise "no black men"?

In other words, there are enough escorts that refuse to see black men that it speaks to something beyond individual choices-- and certainly creates an effect that goes beyond individuals. We know it's a cultural condition because, as has been repeatedly explained here, men of color are advised to declare their race when making an appointment; so at least clients see this as part of hobbying culture. We also know that, other than age, there are no other restrictions routinely put in place about clients' identities. There are expressed or implied restrictions about sobriety and cleanliness and manners, but those restrictions can be met by anyone; there may be implied restrictions about class ("only 4 or 5 star hotels") but this is a business and businesses are allowed to cater to wealthy clients. I can think of no other similar restriction that addresses the identity of clients as a demographic group. We don't see restrictions about disabilities, religion, height/weight, franco/anglophone, etc; and rarely do we see restrictions about gender or sexuality.

Some people have posted out here, including CaptRenault, Hungry101 and others, offering reasons that we see "no black men." It may have something to do with the sense that black men are statistically more likely, and perhaps considerably more likely, to be bad clients. If that is true, then perhaps the restriction is warranted. So, for example, we know that some immigrant communities (including some immigrants from Africa and the Middle East) have attitudes toward women that are far less "respectful" toward women than we are used to in the US--or at least conceive of "respect" in ways that most of us find objectionable. So it may be that a client from a specific immigrant culture is more likely to be disrespectful or worse to women in general and escorts as a group. And so on. In short, it may be that the restriction speaks widely to the experience of escorts on BP, and it may be that the restriction is put in place largely for reasons of safety. (Whether this is in fact warranted is a completely different discussion.)

To sum up this long post, I think that it can be not only interesting but beneficial for a forum like this to look at our own hobbying culture and to look at the mores and values in place. Honestly, when I started reading this thread, I thought that a blanket "no black men" policy (as a widespread condition, not an individual choice) was racist. After reading some of the posts, I am beginning to think that there may be a more complex dynamic going on in Montreal than I realized. But, to emphasize it, I don't see this discussion as useless; I think it's great to air stuff out. We're a forum; why not? If you don't want to talk about race, go to another thread. And, to repeat, it's NOT about whether an escort has the right to refuse service; she does.
 

Maria Divina

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Apr 10, 2007
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Around Montréal...
Just to reassure people who might read some opinions her of some clients that are saying that a girl in agency is having no choice at all to refuse someone under any other reasons that client might be violent or not clean or not sober.....

Happily those opinions so near of the rape culture don't reflect the reality in all agencies in Montreal. I have been in 2 agencies when I begin, and those 2 owners of agencies stated to me clearly that I have the right to refuse if I was simply feeling uncomfortable with someone. (that's it, that's all) And that's what's making common sense. Yes, there are probably very pushing agencies around too, the best is to enquire who are the best agencies that respect their girls if this is the route you want to take.

Another thing said that it is just indies who are having the "right" to do so, is then not totally true. Of course, an Indy will work to magnify her own experience, of course, she is putting the "best man" to take care of her security and well being, let's say herself. :nod: ;)

Good agencies are the ones who don't go further of the role they are supposed to care of, basically advertising, taking the appointments, driving and/or give access to a room. Sometimes, answer to some questions of the girls of course, all this in a spirit that everything will go well.

If they begin to push the girls to do some services or make an obligation to see someone, that's when they are entering the "bad pimp zone". I know, it used to have an agency many years ago who was strict schedule no matter what (even if the girl had a bad or hard encounter, she has to continue until the end) and was reported to even help providing some special drugs to keep the girls willing and awake to make their entire shifts. So yes, it existed this kind of agencies too. Because I don't know all agencies, I can't relate of the proportion who are "good agencies" VS "pimped style agencies". When I see few clients here promoting "girls are having no choice, they just have to shut up if she choose to work in agency" I just feel like :help: In fact, a woman whatever she is doing in life will still ALWAYS having the CHOICE. To not recognize herself as a valid human having some basic rights in life is mean, simply. I am not happy to have read today that this kind of mentality is alive in some client's minds.

Sorry for this post but I have difficulties with abusive attitudes and people promoting those. I should have not said nothing, but it's heartbreaking to have read that from clients.
 

rbrown1000

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Dec 2, 2016
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rbrown1000 has not yet identified the girl to validate his story.
None of the girls, Max or I recall this event.


Never has a girl refused a first meeting with a client for that reason and with that description.

I strive on making things easier and better for both the girls and the clients, but rbrown1000 is not cooperating.
Maybe rbrown1000 made a mistake, but he is not helping himself by getting frustrated instead of making constructive arguments to express what really happened, if ever it did.

This is an interesting discussion but it should be done in a new thread without involving an agency, and lack of proof and details.

Recently, a few of our girls have been receiving false rumours and being harassed on social media.
I would not be surprised if this is related and kind of a coincidence for these things to happen right now.

Mods please close or delete this thread if the girl is not identified or proof any of this even happened.

Sam:yo:

Ok I can call you and talk .Do you really think anyone of your girls is going to admit that they let a client walk out for no valid reason? Dude, the rudeness of your comments is the only thing preventing me from calling you back.I don't think you will be any different on the phone.
 

rbrown1000

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Dec 2, 2016
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rbrown

I joined merb in March this year. The first review I wrote was of a backpage girl. My session was fantastic.

Some people had questions about the legitimacy because it was my first post. Another senior member met the same girl and had an amazing session and reviewed the same girl but because he was a senior member no one questioned the legitimacy.

All this to say, that's how it works. I don't think there is any disrespect, it is just that when you are posting for the first time and saying something which most of the people think is false, there will be questions about legitimacy. I dealt with it and I think most of the first time posters deal with it when they write a post which is bit difficult to believe.

I personally know there is no XO girl currently, who would refuse me for my race because I have seen most of them. You can PM me if you want and share the details about who it was, and I can confirm with you if I have already met that SP[/QUOTE

OK will do
 

rbrown1000

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Dec 2, 2016
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UncleSam is a very understanding guy I meet him and btw he is not White. He is open to hearing your complaint but you are unwilling to give any details. And yes when all you see are words typed behind a keyboard and nothing else one must take it with a grain of salt when your first post is about this negative experience with this agency. As for your example of the wallet just because someone says their wallet is stolen does not mean it is true. You know nothing about the person who made the accusation. When accusations are thrown it must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Everyone is innocent till proven guilty... This is how it works in this country. The way you are acting is you made a complaint about your wallet being stolen so you must provide details so they catch the thief. Right now you are saying my wallet is stolen but I am not telling you who it is... I just wanted to share my experience and know if anyone else has had their wallet stolen. Does this make any sense to you? Cuz it is exactly what you are doing right now and it throws a lot of questions.



You sharing your experience is futile since it really serves no other purpose but to tarnish this agency's reputation. If you are going to write about an event then details needs to presented otherwise from where I stand this is all whining and complaining. This is nothing more then a cry baby thread.



From the way you posted it appears as if your attempt is to go after the agency's reputation however it is not going to work. EscortsXO has an excellent reputation. I do not know what your agenda is but you definitely have one. You have a chance at redemption but so far it does not look good.
If you are going to comment at least read the original post .
 

rbrown1000

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Dec 2, 2016
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What I do not get is when someone is refused a meeting (for whatever the reason) and then they insist,why would someone wants to meet a person who doesn't want to see you?
In my case I have age threshold and I lost count of the guys who insist and actually ends up insulting me saying I am not allowed to refuse anybody (!) .
In real life if I was to be told a relation is over ,no matter my feelings ,if it is not both ways here goes the relation.
I never understood when people beg the other not to leave...I want the people in my life to want to be with me ,if no,good bye...

It is even more true in the fantasy of escorting,why pursue a lady after she said no? Find another one...

Are you responding in general or to any particular comment?
By the way are you the same person who used to advertise on BP(about eight months ago) the one who wears glasses if you are ,I had an entirely different experience and a good one .
 

Tommy Hilfinger

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Sep 22, 2009
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How offended would you be if they would not serve you a smoked meat sandwich because you are not white? A Service Provider is exactly that, a person to provide a service. They should not have a choice to discriminate on color, age or language.
 

hungry101

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Oct 29, 2007
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I was at VIP 7 and it was like a session of the League of Nations. Honestly, I think just about every race was represented at the party by SPs, hobbyists, and agency owners alike. When I met Uncle Sam I was a but disappointed. I anticipated meeting an old man with white hair and beard wearing a red, white, and blue sequin tuxedo and top hat. I was hoping that after I introduced myself he would look past me and then point to one of his girls, never saying a word. He would hold that point and I would say "Sam, do you want me to take her back to my hotel?" Sam would just hold his point, saying nothing, until I walked over the girl to procure her services for the next hour. I would walk out of the bar and look back at him and he would still be pointing to me as if to say Uncle Sam Wants You ...to sleep with that girl! It would do my duty.

But seriously, Sam's an unimposing, unintimidating, friendly Asian guy. Why didn't Mr. Brown just call Sam? Why hasn't he called him by now? Is there fear of reprisal? Sam is not some gangster. I don't think you have to worry about Sam putting a horse's head in your bed. Just call the guy Mr. Brown. Your new. There may have been a misunderstanding? Maybe this can be fixed and Sam can put you on the right path?

Reach out to Sam immediately or I will call Shenanigans on you.
 

EagerBeaver

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But seriously, Sam's an unimposing, unintimidating, friendly ... Why didn't Mr. Brown just call Sam? Why hasn't he called him by now? Is there fear of reprisal? Sam is not some gangster. I don't think you have to worry about Sam putting a horse's head in your bed. Just call the guy Mr. Brown. Your new. There may have been a misunderstanding? Maybe this can be fixed and Sam can put you on the right path?

I agree, Sam is a very regular kind of guy (so is James at Euphoria I should add), very easy to talk to, calm, and mature for his young age. As with James, I met Sam before he was an agency owner and just a client and he was really like one of the rest of the guys. It's almost unbelievable to me that anyone would have any kind of fear in talking to him.
 

rbrown1000

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Dec 2, 2016
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I was at VIP 7 and it was like a session of the League of Nations. Honestly, I think just about every race was represented at the party by SPs, hobbyists, and agency owners alike. When I met Uncle Sam I was a but disappointed. I anticipated meeting an old man with white hair and beard wearing a red, white, and blue sequin tuxedo and top hat. I was hoping that after I introduced myself he would look past me and then point to one of his girls, never saying a word. He would hold that point and I would say "Sam, do you want me to take her back to my hotel?" Sam would just hold his point, saying nothing, until I walked over the girl to procure her services for the next hour. I would walk out of the bar and look back at him and he would still be pointing to me as if to say Uncle Sam Wants You ...to sleep with that girl! It would do my duty.

But seriously, Sam's an unimposing, unintimidating, friendly Asian guy. Why didn't Mr. Brown just call Sam? Why hasn't he called him by now? Is there fear of reprisal? Sam is not some gangster. I don't think you have to worry about Sam putting a horse's head in your bed. Just call the guy Mr. Brown. Your new. There may have been a misunderstanding? Maybe this can be fixed and Sam can put you on the right path?

Reach out to Sam immediately or I will call Shenanigans on you.

I think I made it very clear why I have not called your non intimidating friend.
 

hungry101

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Oct 29, 2007
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How offended would you be if they would not serve you a smoked meat sandwich because you are not white? A Service Provider is exactly that, a person to provide a service. They should not have a choice to discriminate on color, age or language.

I do not agree. Bring in some 80 year old lady of any color and I will serve her a god damn sandwich. Ask me to go down on her and I don't think there is any amount of money that I will perform DATY. There is a big difference. I cannot believe that they sleep with as many of us as they do. I wouldn't sleep with me for example.

But it is not that, as I said in a previous post in this thread and Doc also said there is a safety issue. As I said in that post the Latina woman I met will not even answer your e-mail if you use Ebonics. She was robbed at gunpoint by a black thug who masqueraded as a client and she had dated black men that she knows in the past. I think this is a little much, personally. Why not use P411 which includes talking to other providers? My friend told me that he was refused service in Japan because he was a white male (barbarian from the west). So what are you going to do? Go to Thailand.
 

hungry101

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Oct 29, 2007
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I agree, Sam is a very regular kind of guy (so is James at Euphoria I should add), very easy to talk to, calm, and mature for his young age. As with James, I met Sam before he was an agency owner and just a client and he was really like one of the rest of the guys. It's almost unbelievable to me that anyone would have any kind of fear in talking to him.

They sure don't fit the Hollywood stereotype. But then again neither do the girls and the hobbyists.

Shenanigans!!!
 

EagerBeaver

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How offended would you be if they would not serve you a smoked meat sandwich because you are not white? A Service Provider is exactly that, a person to provide a service. They should not have a choice to discriminate on color, age or language.

I will be interested to hear what the ladies have to say about this comment. I am not sure if it will be to ask you about your 2017 line of lingerie that is coming out......it will probably be more along the lines of :nono::nono:
 

UncleBob

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Nov 9, 2010
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...Dude, the rudeness of your comments is the only thing preventing me from calling you back...

You don't even have to call... Just PM, or sms...

I don't see rudeness in EscortsXO's post.

I did not read all but:

- According to the original post, the girl never mentionned why she let him go. So the Ethnic reason is pure speculation but it is an easy one when you're a minority. Still, it could be any other reasons.
- Every girls has the right to refuse anyone, agency's girls or Indies. We're talking of intimate moments for crying out loud! Stop comparing oranges and apples!

Personnaly, If a girl refuses me, I would keep from telling the world about that.
It could be my look, my age, my smell... No way I will tell the community... Of course it depends of the context. For sure I would text the agency to know more (if agency girl)...

But sometime I feel that the ethnic is the easy reason even if the guy have dirty clothes etc...
 

EagerBeaver

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But sometime I feel that the ethnic is the easy reason even if the guy have dirty clothes etc...

It is the easy reason as it enables the client to shift the blame away from self-accountability...........and onto something that is hard to deny or disprove, even though (as here) the girl did not use racist language but instead asked questions about the OP's origins, which for all we know were prompted by a genuine, innocent curiousity about his accent or manner of speech, as he told us he is new to Montreal.......

Halloween Mike mentioned this earlier but I have heard about clients rejected because of the way they greeted the girl.......inappropriate dress or body language or smell. I can recall a situation where a client "leered" at the girl upon greeting her, the girl called the agency and told the Booker the client was being refused....this is what happens when you do not treat women as you would a friend or guest. Some girls, especially upon a first meeting, want to be greeted appropriately and not like a piece of meat..........

I recall at a party around 12 years ago at HDLM, a guy showed up in a plain white T shirt which had big stains under his armpits, I assume from sweat.........I am a guy and seen it before in the locker room, but I wondered what the ladies at that party thought.

Bottom line is guys have to be accountable for their behaviors, dress, hygiene and manners and should not be allowed to point the finger of blame elsewhere when the reality is that it falls back on them.
 

EagerBeaver

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When I met Uncle Sam I was a but disappointed. I anticipated meeting a man wearing a red, white, and blue sequin tuxedo and top hat.

Had you been at the XO party you would not have been disappointed. The XO party was held several days before Halloween, and Uncle Sam wore a costume very appropriate to the occasion. Let's just say that it brought back memories of this song, which could be the XO theme song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdPOAhBp2Ag

Red and white, blue suede shoes, I'm Uncle Sam, how do you do?
Gimme five, I'm still alive, ain't no luck, I learned to duck.
Check my pulse, it don't change. Stay seventy-two come shine or rain.
Wave the flag, pop the bag, rock the boat, skin the goat.
Wave that flag, wave it wide and high.

Summertime done, come and gone, my, oh, my.
I'm Uncle Sam, that's who I am; Been hidin' out in a rock and roll band.
Shake the hand that shook the hand of P.T. Barnum and Charlie Chan.
Shine your shoes, light your fuse. Can you use them ol' U.S. Blues?
I'll drink your health, share your wealth, run your life, steal your wife.
Wave that flag, wave it wide and high.

Summertime done, come and gone, my, oh, my.
Back to back chicken shack. Son of a gun, better change your act.
We're all confused, what's to lose?
You can call this all the United States Blues.
Wave that flag, wave it wide and high.
Summertime done, come and gone, my, oh, my.

(song written and performed by the Grateful Dead)
 

lgna69xxx

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I know Sam very well, long before he opened XO and let me tell you one thing about him, he is not the type of guy to be rude or yell or get upset for no reason. His points to you were valid and professionally stated.

The girl refused you, so what? Did you expect to date her? Get married and have children together? There are 100's or even thousands of other SP's in the city of Montreal. It sounds more like (at this point) an ego thing than anything else. For the love of all humanity, move the F on! (channeling my inner special k right there lol)

Sam, very happy of the way you handled this, there are so many guys who would complain/scam just to get freebies in this industry as a way to keep "quiet" and I am glad you stood your ground. This guy was likely not legit or he would have called you and handled things man to man instead of stating this thread to whine and air his dirty laundry. I have no sympathy for people like that and it tells everything about ones character. You should ban him from the agency if you could.

PS....don't you think Sam knows when a appointment gets cancelled or a client walks out? He runs one of the top agency's in the city and has very few guys turn away his ladies or vice versa so your dilemma would have stuck out like a sore thumb and Sam is not a liar.
Ok I can call you and talk .Do you really think anyone of your girls is going to admit that they let a client walk out for no valid reason? Dude, the rudeness of your comments is the only thing preventing me from calling you back.I don't think you will be any different on the phone.
 

EagerBeaver

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PS....don't you think Sam knows when a appointment gets cancelled or a client walks out? He runs one of the top agency's in the city and has very few guys turn away his ladies or vice versa so your dilemma would have stuck out like a sore thumb and Sam is not a liar.

I wondered about this too.......usually the protocol on outcall (all that I ever booked with XO) is the girl calls the Booker and lets him know she is okay and the appointment is underway. So if this guy walked out as he stated, I assume at some point the Booker would have called the girl and asked her if the guy was there and had paid........if the girl said yes, then she has to turn over some of the money she made on the appointment, right? So if this happened like the OP said it went down, the girl would have to say there is no client and then wouldn't they know a client took off? And did not pay? And then call him and ask why? At the end of that hour the girl has no money, how does she explain it? Again, it just isn't adding up. It does not compute:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBAijg5Betw

I have a theory that maybe he didn't book at all but just showed up, surprising the girl and leading her to ask questions. Maybe he had inside info on how to get in or what apartment it was. If he did book, the agency would know he left and did not pay, so it does not compute.

BTW I saw nothing wrong with XOs post........Sam simply stated the various possibilities, which are all still in play here. We are being asked to believe a story that doesn't add up just because someone says we should...........That is not how it works. Credibility and trust are earned, both here and in real life.
 
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