Should Brodeur's record have an asterisk on it?

[Techman]

Let me get something out of the way first. I am not a great fan of Patrick Roy. That being said...should Martin Brodeur's win record have an asterisk on it due to regular season overtime and shootout wins being included in his win record?

I have not calculated his record if you were to remove these 'wins' from his record so I do not know exactly where he would stand without them, but I do feel that if Roy had had the opportunity to go into overtime or shootout in tie game situations for the last couple of years of his career that he would have had a much higher total of wins to his record.

So what do you think?

 

[Merlot]

Let me get something out of the way first. I am not a great fan of Patrick Roy. That being said...should Martin Brodeur's win record have an asterisk on it due to regular season overtime and shootout wins being included in his win record?

I have not calculated his record if you were to remove these 'wins' from his record so I do not know exactly where he would stand without them, but I do feel that if Roy had had the opportunity to go into overtime or shootout in tie game situations for the last couple of years of his career that he would have had a much higher total of wins to his record.

So what do you think?

Hello Techman,

All hockey fans will understand the difference in the game form in the eras between the two players. Unlike roids or other forms of cheating, there is no deception here. If you put an asterisk next to Brodeur it would be the same as putting one next to Henry Aaron for his home run record because his season had 162 games compared to Ruth's 154. Now Bonds, that's another matter since he was definitely juiced. I don't think players should be branded in effect with asterisks for conditions that were not a violation and none of their doing. Fans know the difference without the asterisk which implies diminished achievements. Anyone who plays their sport honestly under the prescribed conditions should not be branded.

Cheers,

Merlot

 

[Doc Holliday]

I voted no, since there are dozens & dozens of other reasons why an asterisk could have been applied for any records being broken and it wasn't done. For example, goalie equipment size, new goalie equipment, new rules, etc.

There'd be no end to it.

I also feel the same way about baseball, by the way.

 

[Techman]

Honestly I'm on the fence about it. While much of what you say is true regarding equipement changes and rule changes, the OT and shootout changes have removed the tie game from the record books. Part of me says that there should be a record for most wins in regular season regulation time plus playoffs, another part says that a win is a win, no matter what. The fact that tie games have been removed from the totals makes a much bigger difference that any other rule or equipement changes.

As for baseball, or any other sport as far as I am concerned, any player that has been proven to use performance enhancing drugs has no place in the record books. No excepions. If not, then Ben Johnson and other Olympic athletes who tested positive should still have their records also.

 

[joelcairo]

Doc explained it very well: No asterisk - there are countless variables involved in records. For obvious starters, a goalie on a bad team will probably never get the chance to win as many games as an equivalent goalie on a good team.

By the way, the new no-tie era makes it easier for Brodeur or any other goalie to accumulate wins but it makes it harder to accumulate shutouts.

It's really impossible to pick a "best ever" in any category - statistics don't always tell the story. My list of all-time greatest goalies includes Plante, Sawchuk, Hall, Hasek, Roy, Brodeur, and Durnan (but not the overrated Ken Dryden) but ranking them would really be a matter of personal opinion which is why sports is a great topic for endless discussions and friendly arguments.

Breaking a record is a feelgood moment and generates good publicity and discussion but that's all.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Ben Johnson and other Olympic athletes who tested positive should still have their records also.

It's always been my opinion that Ben Johnson got robbed of his gold medal. All of the other runners finishing in the top 4 had been rumoured to have tested positive also, but not much was made of this at the time. Those rumours kind of validated themselves later when all of them (including Carl Lewis) were eventually busted for using anabolic products.

As for baseball players who used steroids, there was a time during the mid-90's when as much as 70% or more baseball players were juicing themselves. For many players wanting to crack the majors, it was either you juice yourself to stay at the same level as the rest of the competition or spend your career in the minors if you chose to stay clean. That was a $million decision. But there are other factors why i wouldn't put an asterisk in MLB.....why not put an asterisk when night games began to be played? How about when bigger gloves & trappers were allowed? What about when the DH was introduced (much easier on the pitchers' stamina)? How about Babe Ruth playing hungover (and sometimes boozed up) half the time? Many stats used today weren't being used in the past (and this includes hockey). How about supplements & advances in weight training? Why not put an asterisk for those? Plus the fact steroids have only been illegal for the past few years. Back when Mark McGwire got the homerun record, it wasn't illegal. When i heard that McGwire was using Andro (androstenedione), a form of steroid.....not much was made out of that. However, it's since been banned by MLB.

Anyways, the problem in MLB today....and in many other sports....is HGH, not steroids. They still haven't figured out a way to test for that. They will in a couple of years & you'll have a whole bunch of doping scandals in the news again. The heroes of today will be the bums of tomorrow. Ask Roger Clemens.

 

[lgna69xxx]

Nope, no asterisk

Let me get something out of the way first. I am not a great fan of Patrick Roy. That being said...should Martin Brodeur's win record have an asterisk on it due to regular season overtime and shootout wins being included in his win record?

I have not calculated his record if you were to remove these 'wins' from his record so I do not know exactly where he would stand without them, but I do feel that if Roy had had the opportunity to go into overtime or shootout in tie game situations for the last couple of years of his career that he would have had a much higher total of wins to his record.

So what do you think?

 

[The Snark]

The W-L-T record for hockey goalies is the dumbest statistic in professional sports. Why record wins and losses when save percentage is the only number that really matters?

 

[Doc Holliday]

The W-L-T record for hockey goalies is the dumbest statistic in professional sports. Why record wins and losses when save percentage is the only number that really matters?

True. However, most stats are dumb. Take a skilled hockey player. Put him on a line with two cement hands. Not many points. Put him on a line with two other skilled players & he's suddenly piling up the points.

 

[HankS]

Just as an aside....did you notice Roy facial expression after the game, when he was now tied as the top NHL goalie ever, and on the verge of being only the second to best in wins? He did not appload Brodeur like every other person in the building!!! It was almost a scrowl...Come on you big baby! Put your hands together and join the crowd's ovasion, you look so ....upset!!! You know somethin', his passion for winning was no doubt fierce and unquenchable. But when his egotistic, self-indulgent, old jealous self sees the next fellow steal his spotlight, his record, his top-of-the-world front row seat, he looked like he wanted to bury himself! His undisciplined character wouldn't allow him -god forbid- to congratulate that goalie, Martin Brodeur. I used to like roy growing up, but I hate him so much now, and his terrible selfish character is a big blemish to his illustrious repertoire. He is who he was, and I don't think he'll ever change. A real Hall of Shamer. BTW, congratulations Martin Brodeur, and no astrix to that poll. Cia!

 

[master_bates]

Brodeur didnt cheat therefore no need for an asterisk

I agree with HankS I watched that habs game vs the devils on saturday night

Roy wasnt happy for Martin his fellow quebecer.

I was a fan of Roy ever since he was caught beating his wife after that he

lost my respect. Men who beat on women are cowards.

 

[Techman]

And he likely doesn't give a shit what you, I and a bunch of anonymous posters on a hooker board think of him.

And why should he? I started this poll because I thought it might be fun to get some input from merbites, not because I cared what Roy or anyone else away from MERB happens to think.

 

[larrywalker]

no astreik...brodeur will get enough wins to break the record withou the over time games that he won...so meh.