The Bitching thread

[wtvmark]

Question for the legalization stuff. Or related... do SP's declare their income? like somehow they declare some. But if it were legal then they would declare and pay a lot more taxes no?
I always assumed thats why most would prefer decriminalize to legalize is then they are going to pay 45% of income in taxes here. Its mostly a cash industry so it would be harder to keep track of and audit.
I can imagine the audits to... explaining the extra charges.

 

[AirBo]

THE ESCORT SOCIAL SCALE

I enjoy doing this

1. Escort on LeoList - 200$/h
2. Escort working for agency - 250$/h
3. Gem working for agency - 300$/h
4. Independent escort - 350$/h
5. Companion - 400$/h
6. Upscale companion - 450$/h
7. Courtisane - 500$/h
8. Upscale courtisane - 600$/h
9. ..................
10. Katrina Vianna - 800$/h

In the end, we always pay for more than just companionship

Love you all

 

[LC18]

Question for the legalization stuff. Or related... do SP's declare their income? like somehow they declare some. But if it were legal then they would declare and pay a lot more taxes no?
I always assumed thats why most would prefer decriminalize to legalize is then they are going to pay 45% of income in taxes here. Its mostly a cash industry so it would be harder to keep track of and audit.
I can imagine the audits to... explaining the extra charges.

Like I mention a few pages ago, we still pay taxes as independent workers.

It’s not illegal for me to be an escort, it’s illegal for you to purchase my services.

We don’t want it to be legal because then the government would stick their nose in our business…

 

[LC18]

THE ESCORT SOCIAL SCALE

I enjoy doing this

1. Escort on LeoList - 200$/h
2. Escort working for agency - 250$/h
3. Gem working for agency - 300$/h
4. Independent escort - 350$/h
5. Companion - 400$/h
6. Upscale companion - 450$/h
7. Courtisane - 500$/h
8. Upscale courtisane - 600$/h
9. ..................
10. Katrina Vianna - 800$/h

In the end, we always pay for more than just companionship

Love you all

Companion, escort, prostitute, courtisane, callgirl, lady of the night. It’s all the same thing…

We just use different words for our marketing but they all mean the same thing.

 

[wolfie7]

Regarding the purpoted lack of GFE service, that's not something I have exeprerienced with Vog and Luxury. I always make sure to have an impeccable hygiene (fresh shower, good breath, shaved facial hair, clean haircut, clean hands/nails) and to be polite and respectful. I believe this goes a long way in making sure the SP is comfortable to provide her best service.

With the exception of some noobs perhaps, good hygiene is table-stakes for most hobbyists. Shit-shower-shave before any session should be the norm. And I, for one, like many of us, groom so the SP doesn’t have to deal with a jungle down there. That’s just having basic consideration for the SP. And you pray there’s reciprocity from her, as well.

Having attended GT’s in the past, I also know many of us keep ourselves in good shape - to maximize our own performance and enjoyment. Large and messy is not a descriptor for most of us.

So I scratch off hygiene as a reason for not receiving GFE for most cases.

My experience with most bookers is they’re upfront about non-GFE providers. At least with Vogue and Euphoria. Maybe because they know I’m a stickler for GFE adherence? But all the bookers I’ve dealt with in Montreal, minus XO, have been upfront with any restrictions.

I attribute non-GFE to 2 reasons, with one probably more to blame than the other.

Agencies can enforce experience standards. It happened in other cities, and previously in Montreal. If a girl didn’t provide GFE services, clients would bitch, and the SP gets a come-to-Jesus conversation, and if no change, she eventually got kicked out of the agency. The owners had a standard because they knew customers would revolt. I don’t see that in Montreal anymore. Perhaps the lack of talent supply means agencies no longer have that leverage.

The second, likely more potent, reason is the culture and mindset of these Millenial and Gen Z babies in the pipeline… And damn, I know I sound like the cantankerous old geezer now… These last few generations, raised in prosperity and instant connectivity, are just spoiled brats who don’t want to hustle as much as previous generations of girls, and who don’t have the same sex drive.

I can’t capture it succinctly - but some of these girls from the boonies of Quebec had a je-ne-sais-quoi 10-15+ years ago. Seemingly good girls who were secretly nymphos and sex fiends. It was uniquely ‘Montreal GFE.’ Unbridled? All-in? K-girls in LA felt ‘industrial.’ So did many of the Ukrainians and Romanians in Europe. But Quebecoise - ouuuuffff. I picked up that expression in Montreal, and only used it in Montreal. Ouuuffff! Somehow it felt more genuine, like the SP had a ravenous appetite and let herself loose. Real or fantastic acting? Didn’t matter. Regardless, it was phenomenal for the client. I don’t get that anymore in Montreal. Or at least super rarely in the last 2-3 years. It’s become industrial, as another poster described.

 

[wolfie7]

Also, just to clarify and add to my previous post - I’m sure you can still get “ouuuuuffff” service here. I’m not contesting that. But you likely have to put a bag over her head. Or turn out the lights to not notice the stretch marks.

It’s the combination of open, phenomenal service with a great young body - slim and fit and toned - with a pretty face (7+). Plus outcall to your hotel room at an awesome rate. (Is that really asking for so much???? Hahahaha…) That’s gone now. No more total packages. Or at least very few.

Only a handful could check those boxes in the last few years for me - Eleonore and Stacey at Vogue, and Amira and Yana at Euphoria. The latter 2 only doing incalls.

And I adored Eleonore, but if I’m being entirely objective, her face and body would score 7’s. It was her personality and attitude and service that were off the charts. She couldn’t hold a candle compared to Chloé or Zoë or Daphne or Emma and past stars. But today, I would kill for another Eleonore. That’s just the current Montreal landscape…

 

[cpp433]

I attribute non-GFE to 2 reasons, with one probably more to blame than the other.

Agencies can enforce experience standards. It happened in other cities, and previously in Montreal. If a girl didn’t provide GFE services, clients would bitch, and the SP gets a come-to-Jesus conversation, and if no change, she eventually got kicked out of the agency. The owners had a standard because they knew customers would revolt. I don’t see that in Montreal anymore. Perhaps the lack of talent supply means agencies no longer have that leverage.

The second, likely more potent, reason is the culture and mindset of these Millenial and Gen Z babies in the pipeline… And damn, I know I sound like the cantankerous old geezer now… These last few generations, raised in prosperity and instant connectivity, are just spoiled brats who don’t want to hustle as much as previous generations of girls, and who don’t have the same sex drive.

Perhaps a little but i believe a third reason is overwhelmingly more to blame for this as i brought up recently, The guys themselves! Probably not the answer you were thinking, i dont think lack of talent prohibits agencies from explaining expectations to the girls its the millennial and gen z MEN that are neutered and will book them for their entire 4-6 hour shifts despite non gfe service, why would the girls change and why would the agency be upset at the girls? They are getting booked up by simps on the regular. As far as the girls i dont believe the generation they are from has anything to do with it, its always human nature to want maximum compensation for the least amount of effort. I think the generational effect on all this is from the guys!
Come to think of it, shit it isnt even just the girls, the agency owners are laughing at us too! Half of them wont even bring the girls to u anymore! Fuck you, you drive to us, pay to park, stand outside our building like a simp until we give u the ok. And you know what? The dudes are lined up outside that building in the cold staring at their phone waiting for a text! We (men) have done it to ourselves!
Another prime example of what im talking about, Onlyfans, like guys wtf are u thinking????

 

[wolfie7]

Perhaps a little but i believe a third reason is overwhelmingly more to blame for this as i brought up recently, The guys themselves! Probably not the answer you were thinking,

Yes, I agree with this. In-line with my rant on white knights, I'm with you 100% on simps and neutered men as pushover clients. You're right - you need both sides of the transaction to accept the current dynamic.

I'm not sure about Gen Z clients booking multiple hours, though. I'm sure there are trust fund babies out there, but they're probably hunting different grounds for play. For the rank-and-file hobbyist in his 30's and 40's, dropping the cash for multi-hour appointments regularly is not sustainable. And I'm not sure irregular johns are booking multi-hour appointments, either. I would posit it's the seniors amongst us who have more wealth than they can spend, who are regularly booking multi-hour appointments. Who knows...

 

[cpp433]

Yes, I agree with this. In-line with my rant on white knights, I'm with you 100% on simps and neutered men as pushover clients. You're right - you need both sides of the transaction to accept the current dynamic.

I'm not sure about Gen Z clients booking multiple hours, though. I'm sure there are trust fund babies out there, but they're probably hunting different grounds for play. For the rank-and-file hobbyist in his 30's and 40's, dropping the cash for multi-hour appointments regularly is not sustainable. And I'm not sure irregular johns are booking multi-hour appointments, either. I would posit it's the seniors amongst us who have more wealth than they can spend, who are regularly booking multi-hour appointments. Who knows...

Its been very common over the last year or so for girls to tell me about dudes that book them for 4-6 hours, some more! Im not sure about the ages of the clients tho. Also for example you will see some euphoria girls booked up before the schedule drops on their site, a 3-4 hour shift, i can nearly guarantee its a single client snapping up that whole shift

 

[MCTJ]

So I scratch off hygiene as a reason for not receiving GFE for most cases

Not poiting my finger at you specifically but I mentioned attitude (polite and respectful) in addition to hygiene. My thinking is "you want them to act as your girlfriend (the definition of GFE)", then why not act as her boyfriend (a good one)? If that's being a simp, then I'm all for it, as I get the service I'm looking for.

 

[AirBo]

Also for example you will see some euphoria girls booked up before the schedule drops on their site, a 3-4 hour shift, i can nearly guarantee its a single client snapping up that whole shift

Some agencies have a predefined list of "preferred" clients who get the exclusivity before the schedule is up. It's often enough to get the new girls fully booked with trusted clients

 

[Cap'tain Fantastic]

For the rank-and-file hobbyist in his 30's and 40's, dropping the cash for multi-hour appointments regularly is not sustainable. And I'm not sure irregular johns are booking multi-hour appointments, either. I would posit it's the seniors amongst us who have more wealth than they can spend, who are regularly booking multi-hour appointments. Who knows...

Although I fully agree with the simping and white-knighting attitude polluting the hobby in general, I think you are totally underestimating the capabilities for the 30s-40s to generate an income and wealth way beyond the decent mark.
These people are the tech generation and most of them are very experienced geeks at that age. It’s not rare for them to reach an income level beyond 250K very quickly in their career, and when they attain a certain reputation they are constantly getting offers from big tech companies, that’s why they move around regularly.
As an example of this I have a friend who is in the video games industry, he was an artistic director for a major world wide player here in Montreal, earning 125K in 2019. Since then he’s moved 4 times, putting up a small hive of talent that follows him around. Today, his income averages 450K, he certainly not the only one in this situation. I’m telling you, those geeks have lots of money to spend.

 

[Fradi]

But how do we know that? Especially those who don’t use the reference system. How do we know that you’re going to come on the day you said you would? How do we know you’re not giving a fake hotel room number?

I can return that question how do I know you are going to show up.
There has to be some kind of trust, references Merb handle, if I cancel on you within 24 hours I will pay you the full amount there are some people still who’s word is worth more than a couple of hundred bucks.
I guess it is part of your profession and experience how much trust you get out of a written text or email the vibe a client gives or references and in the end it is of course your decision if you want to insist on deposits it is your right to do so. Just like it is up to us to accept that or move on.

 

[wolfie7]

Not poiting my finger at you specifically but I mentioned attitude (polite and respectful) in addition to hygiene. My thinking is "you want them to act as your girlfriend (the definition of GFE)", then why not act as her boyfriend (a good one)? If that's being a simp, then I'm all for it, as I get the service I'm looking for.

I certainly didn’t mean to imply you were pointing your finger at me. And I’m with you that having good hygiene is not ‘simp behavior.’ Was just trying to logically eliminate reasons for no-GFE.

Listen, if you’re a slob, or smell, or are a massive blob of a human, you’ve got to be realistic about expecting an SP to embrace you. That’s all I’m saying. And I think most of us are not that.

For me, being a simp is inflating reviews and talking up an SP in the hopes they get favorable treatment in the future, or even some attention, any attention.

 

[wolfie7]

Although I fully agree with the simping and white-knighting attitude polluting the hobby in general, I think you are totally underestimating the capabilities for the 30s-40s to generate an income and wealth way beyond the decent mark.

True enough. Plenty of professionals in NY and Boston making $300-500K+ in their 30’s, especially with inflation the last few years. I guess my cheap ass sensibilities are just offended by spending $1,000+ on a single date with a single girl. Lol.

 

[LC18]

I can return that question how do I know you are going to show up.
There has to be some kind of trust, references Merb handle, if I cancel on you within 24 hours I will pay you the full amount there are some people still who’s word is worth more than a couple of hundred bucks.
I guess it is part of your profession and experience how much trust you get out of a written text or email the vibe a client gives or references and in the end it is of course your decision if you want to insist on deposits it is your right to do so. Just like it is up to us to accept that or move on.

Clients have a lot more information than we do. You can search up a name on merb, perb and terb and if they’ve been active and allow reviews you will find something.

We don’t have any information at all other than a name that could totally be fake.

We have no way to know if whatever you text is true. It’s very easy to say “trust me” “I’ve never cancelled”


My favourite line is “we can meet for a coffee and I’ll give you the deposit then”

 

[Fradi]

Clients have a lot more information than we do. You can search up a name on merb, perb and terb and if they’ve been active and allow reviews you will find something.

We don’t have any information at all other than a name that could totally be fake.

We have no way to know if whatever you text is true. It’s very easy to say “trust me” “I’ve never cancelled”


My favourite line is “we can meet for a coffee and I’ll give you the deposit then”

I don’t think we will ever resolve this
We do have one bit of information for sure, we know for a fact that the person we will see the name is fake lol.
Having more information doesn’t do squat people can turn on a dime. You have as much information on me as I do on you. You are familiar and are frequently in contact with a young lady that I have seen for over 6 years and others that I have seen , so it is not that you cannot do research as well.
Ultimately it comes down to a gut feel and trust in the information that you have , a deposit doesn’t do squat for safety it only helps with time wasters
Bottom line is we are both free to do what ever we think is safe and best for us.

 

[Cap'tain Fantastic]

My favourite line is “we can meet for a coffee and I’ll give you the deposit then”

What about we meet for a coffee, I show you my ID, you take note of it, you don’t take a picture of it. I give you a cash deposit if you want.

 

[Halloween Mike]

Personally i can't lie, this "industry" has become much less appealing to me in recent times. I am aware its a mix of factors on my side as well as the business tough, but the 2 combine really take its toll. Some factors...

1) Getting tired of making the trip to Montreal (if its solely for a meeting and not joined with a concert or other event). I used to be so exited to do it, even if it was just to have sex for less than 1h and then spend the remaining of the evening in my hotel room watching a movie on my laptop with some beer. Now it feel like such a chore to make that travel it demoralize me a bit to actually do it. I mean the exitement of the meeting vs energy drain from doing the travel is not the same ratio anymore. I just don't want to go all the trouble of scheduling everything and physically spending 5h on bus or "covoiturage" + a night away from home. Maybe its due to the fact i been doing this for years so obviously its not new anymore.

2) As it was mentioned early in the thread the "factory" system put in places by incall agencies have been very profitable for them, but are just less appealing for me as client. On top of making the travel to Montreal now i can't just chill in my hotel waiting for my date, i have to take the subway, wait around with nothing to do (cause i must arrive early, since if i arrive late its on my time so not taking chances). It really make the experience not as fun. Plus whats up with these darn dark incalls? If i pick a specific escort because she looks good to me, can there be actual lights so i can see all her beauty? Yes some agencies still do outcall thankfully, but obviously the outcall choice is more limited. While back then i never was decline an outcall downtown.

3) Booking some indies is getting much more complicated than it should be these days. I understand technology helped offering them ways to do these extra steps and yes im aware they always had to deal with time wasters and such, but in my case its not something i ever done so i wish i could still just book easy like back then. A mail for into, discuss a few things quick, then switch to phone on the day of meeting. And obviously the rates having pretty much double in some cases in just a matter of a few years (or at the very least 1.5x) does not help.

4) Without going into too much details i been trying for years to spend less on both escorts and video games, and i kinda finally feeling like i can actually achieve it. So there is also that "personal factor". In term of video games i have a backlog that would take me litteraly 50 years to finish if i played everything, so easy to say im kinda done buying random games, only picking the ones i truly know ill play right on the moment. And refer to previous points for escorts. So finally maybe this year is THE year where i can focuss on my other project. In any case unless some escorts from the past r that would make my heart jump seeing her being back return, i don't plan on going to MTL before July's comicon. Ill see someone for sure then but thats likely that until then.

5) This one may be a bit off, but i used to make a "list" after GTs of everyone i wanted to see. Since these are gone, i find myself less "lusting" on meeting someone, unless she has an OF where i can see "more of her" or something. I mean, yes pictures look good on these agency websites, but they are pro pictures, they are meant to look good. I miss the "intimate first sight" i could have at GTs by seeing them in person, talking a bit to them etc. This would also build the exitement of anticipation of meeting her for private time. When i only have 3-4 blurred face pictures, i can't have this exitement... And even if she is georgous as we meet, its like something is missing if that make any sense. Maybe i been spoiled lol.

 

[LC18]

What about we meet for a coffee, I show you my ID, you take note of it, you don’t take a picture of it. I give you a cash deposit if you want.

That defeats the purpose of a deposit. We ask a deposit to make sure we are not leaving our house for nothing, that we’re not renting an incall for nothing. If we still have to leave to go get a deposit without any guarantee that you’ll be there it doesn’t make sense.