The Joe.T Memorial FM® Yankees Suck Thread for 2008

[korbel]

The problem with what you say is that Pettitte's story keeps changing. First it was once, then twice, now four times. When will it stop?

Hello Rumples,

Hmmmm, okay, I missed these changes to his story. Thanks for the update. Well, I was trying to give the guy a little credit for coming clean, though I still wondered about whether he was just admitting to what was safer for him to say. Whatever doubts one has about a player you don't trash him completely just because of those doubts. If there is more...so be it then. Still, at least he is not denying everything, implying his best friend is misremembering, or throwing his wife under the bus to save his ass.

Shameless,

Korbel

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

It's getting mighty ugly for Andy

There are three VERY damning articles in the NY Daily News today. The first, a very long one which I only skimmed, details how Pettitte's father obtained HGH for him in 2004. The second talks about how the Yankee management is feeling duped by Pettitte.

The final paragraph, "Maybe in these extra few days the Yankees have allowed him to take before reporting to camp the sensitive Pettitte has decided to retire rather than have to publicly answer any more questions about his family and their involvement in the "1-on-1 Elite Personal Fitness" gym. Even if he were to walk away from the $16 million, however, it will be of no consolation to Hank Steinbrenner, who is finding out all of these things about Andy Pettitte two months too late."

A third article by Mike Lupica is titled, "Can't get worse for Andy Pettitte."

The links:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...yankee_brass_feel_duped_after_giving_and.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...exclusive_andy_pettitte_received_perform.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...-17_cant_get_any_worse_for_andy_pettitte.html

 

[korbel]

There are three VERY damning articles in the NY Daily News today. The first, a very long one which I only skimmed, details how Pettitte's father obtained HGH for him in 2004. The second talks about how the Yankee management is feeling duped by Pettitte.

The final paragraph, "Maybe in these extra few days the Yankees have allowed him to take before reporting to camp the sensitive Pettitte has decided to retire rather than have to publicly answer any more questions about his family and their involvement in the "1-on-1 Elite Personal Fitness" gym. Even if he were to walk away from the $16 million, however, it will be of no consolation to Hank Steinbrenner, who is finding out all of these things about Andy Pettitte two months too late."

A third article by Mike Lupica is titled, "Can't get worse for Andy Pettitte."

The links:

Hello Rumples,

"Once you start looking, there is always more. Marion Jones, in the end, was sunk as much by her involvement in a tax fraud case as she was by her involvement, and subsequent lies, about steroids. The Congressional circus packs up and moves on now. Pettitte and Clemens, two star pitchers the last time the Yankees won a World Series, two star pitchers who pitched the Astros into the World Series in 2005, they desperately want to move on."

"It doesn't work that way. This isn't talking to reporters after the game. The feds will get into this now with Clemens because they have to. And it isn't just one hearing for them, and one set of depositions. Once they are in it they are in it for the long haul, just ask Bonds, and they hardly ever mis-hear or mis-remember anything when it comes to drugs in sports."

WOW, what a mess. It looks like the Yankers and Steinbonner are going to have a lot of fun this year. On top of the possibility/probability of Pettitte not pitching at all, his contract deal was the security against signing Santana. Looks like two...or three pitchers (Clemens, Pettitte, Santana) won't be "On Fire" ..."Unhittable" or Cy-anything this year for the Yankers. What a mess. Hmmmmmm, and no comments from Joe.G on any of this in a very long time. Maybe he has quit being a Yanker fan? Well, Mr. Integrity is hiding out in the Super Bowl thread running his mouth off there instead. What a mess...errr...I mean what a guy.


Toodles,

Korbel

 

[Joe.t]

$160 Yankees finish ahead of the Red Sox, come one come all what do you say chicken shits?

Enough talk about something that was done "legally".

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Enough talk about something that was done "legally".

When you say "legally," are you talking about Clemens' butt?

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Pettitte may have done the Yankees a favor with this though George and Hank probably wouldn't agree. Having a 15 win/190 inning pitcher on board probably kept them from pulling the trigger on Santana and most importantly allows them to develop their own young pitching (and outfielders). I read in another article that before accepting the weakest package out there (from the Mets), the final Twins offer to the Yankees did not ask for Hughes. Not certain who was asked for but likely Kennedy and Horne plus some outfielders. Other reports say Wang would have been the centerpiece. The Yankees may take some lumps for this in 2008 but should be stronger afterwards.

You're assuming that Pettitte pitches effectively. He may. He may not. He may not pitch at all. Given his makeup, he's much more likely to be affected by the distractions than most players. It's pretty clear that the Yankees pulled out of the Santana talks as much for financial reasons as for their unwillingness to part with the prospects.

If Pettitte retires or turns into another Mussina, the Yankees become a long-shot to make the playoffs and will likely feature a new GM for 2009.

I'd heard that the Twins asked for Wang, as well. I don't believe the Yankees ever gave that offer any real consideration.

 

[anon_vlad]

$160 Yankees finish ahead of the Red Sox, come one come all what do you say chicken shits?

I'll take the bet as is. However, as I am an impatient type and wish to collect more quickly, I propose the following modification:

The winner is declared before the end of the season as soon as:
1 It becomes mathematically impossible for the loser to overtake the winner.
2 The leader is 10 games ahead of the other in the standings.

Please confirm which version (yours or mine) of the bet you will be losing.

 

[korbel]

$160 Yankees finish ahead of the Red Sox, come one come all what do you say chicken shits?

Enough talk about something that was done "legally".

Hello Joe.G,

LOL...well...there you are at last. No, I am sure you are not done milking the Super Bowl thread, but thanks for showing yourself here. Naturally, you offer nothing about the Clemens issue which is now about perjury instead of just the use of steroids or HGH against MLB rules. Maybe you have wised up enough not to keep denying he did use some sort of enhancements. How about the Hench piece and his indictment of Clemens??? No, no comment there either huh.

I told you there was no way I am letting my favorite adolescent get out of that insane bet against the Patriots making the playoffs next year by attempting to use another bet to offset your loss there. But, it does show your foolishness since not only have the Yankers lost Clemens...and lost Santana...but they are likely to lose Pettitte. Since Andy was probably your second most vital pitcher last year and Clemens is now a baseball pariah, where are their wins going to come from??? Not that some half talented rookie couldn't get Clemens' 6 wins...and at an immensely cheaper rate...lol. Too bad the Pettitte signing was supposed to substitute for Santana. Angel Andy may have cost you guys a great deal of pitching potential as well as his own presence. How critical Santana seems now... huh!

Cheerio,

Korbel

I'll take the bet as is. However, as I am an impatient type and wish to collect more quickly, I propose the following modification:

The winner is declared before the end of the season as soon as:
1 It becomes mathematically impossible for the loser to overtake the winner.
2 The leader is 10 games ahead of the other in the standings.

Please confirm which version (yours or mine) of the bet you will be losing.

Oh yeah Joe.G,

The Patriots bet is due as soon as it is mathematically certain they have made the playoffs. Happy Thanksgiving to me...lol.

You silly,

Korbel

 

[korbel]

Pettitte may have done the Yankees a favor with this though George and Hank probably wouldn't agree. Having a 15 win/190 inning pitcher on board probably kept them from pulling the trigger on Santana and most importantly allows them to develop their own young pitching (and outfielders). I read in another article that before accepting the weakest package out there (from the Mets), the final Twins offer to the Yankees did not ask for Hughes. Not certain who was asked for but likely Kennedy and Horne plus some outfielders. Other reports say Wang would have been the centerpiece. The Yankees may take some lumps for this in 2008 but should be stronger afterwards.

Hello CF,

I have to say I agree with you on this. Despite the fact that the Yankers will be suffering from the probable ineffectiveness or loss of Pettitte and consequential pass on Santana, I never thought any team, at least teams with a lot of true star potential players, should sacrifice so many of them for one marquis pitcher. The price is just too great and anything can happen to one guy. Both the Red Sox and the Yankers are probably better off in the long run.

Cheers,

Korbel

 

[Joe.t]

I'll take the bet as is. However, as I am an impatient type and wish to collect more quickly, I propose the following modification:

The winner is declared before the end of the season as soon as:
1 It becomes mathematically impossible for the loser to overtake the winner.
2 The leader is 10 games ahead of the other in the standings.

Please confirm which version (yours or mine) of the bet you will be losing.

Confirmed on my part with option number 1, option number 2 guarantees absolutely nothing as witnessed by the near collapse of the Red Sox last year.

What do you say?, pretty please with sugar on top please respond and I did say pretty please.

Looks like the fabulous young arms of the Yankees have struck fear into the hearts of rumples and Korbel, Hughes number 1 prospect in all of baseball last year, Chamberlain(AKA the second coming of Roger Clemens), etc etc.

 

[korbel]

Really...bwahahahahaha!

Confirmed on my part with option number 1, option number 2 guarantees absolutely nothing as witnessed by the near collapse of the Red Sox last year.

What do you say?, pretty please with sugar on top please respond and I did say pretty please.

Looks like the fabulous young arms of the Yankees have struck fear into the hearts of rumples and Korbel, Hughes number 1 prospect in all of baseball last year, Chamberlain(AKA the second coming of Roger Clemens), etc etc.

Hello Joe.G,

Be careful what you wish for. Are you sure roids, HGH, and perjury are the things you want from Chamberlain??? Bwahahahahahaha! I mean, IF it's all true.

Toodles,

Korbel

 

[anon_vlad]

Confirmed on my part with option number 1, option number 2 guarantees absolutely nothing as witnessed by the near collapse of the Red Sox last year.

What do you say?, pretty please with sugar on top please respond and I did say pretty please

Joe, I'm sorry to say that you are going to get so much of this form of "sweetness" that you will be at risk for diabetes. While I hope that the cow will not expire from too many hands milking it, I am not a nice enough guy to refuse such easy money.

I accept the bet with option 1 as you wish.

 

[korbel]

Joe, I'm sorry to say that you are going to get so much of this form of "sweetness" that you will be at risk for diabetes. While I hope that the cow will not expire from too many hands milking it, I am not a nice enough guy to refuse such easy money.

I accept the bet with option 1 as you wish.

Hello Anon Vlad,

If you want truly easy money, go over to the Super Bowl thread and see his bet that the Patriots will not make the playoffs next year in the weakest division in the NFL...maybe ever.

ENJOY!

Korbel

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Looks like the fabulous young arms of the Yankees have struck fear into the hearts of rumples and Korbel, Hughes number 1 prospect in all of baseball last year, Chamberlain(AKA the second coming of Roger Clemens), etc etc.

You'd better be careful what you say, Joe, you fucking moron. Are you accusing Joba of sticking needles in his behind?

BTW, I'll take some of that easy money you're offering. You're on.

 

[Joe.t]

You'd better be careful what you say, Joe, you fucking moron. Are you accusing Joba of sticking needles in his behind?

BTW, I'll take some of that easy money you're offering. You're on.

$160.00, Yankees have a better record than the Red Sox in the 2008 season, confirmed on my part.

Waiting for your reply.

 

[Special K]

Thanks Beav

Something Rumples has been saying for years. Here's the proof, Jeter's the worst!

Straight from NY's own paper!

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Not just the worst fielding shortstop in baseball, but, costing his team 14 runs a season, the worst fielder at any position.

"Hit 'em where they ain't is ancient advice to baseball batters. Now statistics explain why it works.

Based on his time with the Texas Rangers, Alex Rodriguez is one of the game's best shortstops, according to researchers led by Shane T. Jensen of the University of Pennsylvania. Rodriguez now plays third base for the New York Yankees.

Using a complex statistical method, researchers concluded that one of the worst at shortstop is A-Rod's teammate, three-time Gold Glove-winner Derek Jeter. The findings were presented Saturday at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science.

That method involved looking at every ball put in play in major league baseball from 2002 through 2005 and recorded where the shots went. Researchers then developed a probability model for the average fielder in each position and compared that with the performance of individual players to see who was better or worse than average.

Comparing Jeter and A-Rod, Jensen said, "suggests the Yankees have one of the best defensive shortstops playing out of position in deference to one of the worst defensive shortstops." A-Rod won two Gold Gloves as a shortstop before he came New York in 2004."

 

[korbel]

Not just the worst fielding shortstop in baseball, but, costing his team 14 runs a season, the worst fielder at any position.

"Hit 'em where they ain't is ancient advice to baseball batters. Now statistics explain why it works.

Based on his time with the Texas Rangers, Alex Rodriguez is one of the game's best shortstops, according to researchers led by Shane T. Jensen of the University of Pennsylvania. Rodriguez now plays third base for the New York Yankees.

Using a complex statistical method, researchers concluded that one of the worst at shortstop is A-Rod's teammate, three-time Gold Glove-winner Derek Jeter. The findings were presented Saturday at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science.

That method involved looking at every ball put in play in major league baseball from 2002 through 2005 and recorded where the shots went. Researchers then developed a probability model for the average fielder in each position and compared that with the performance of individual players to see who was better or worse than average.

Comparing Jeter and A-Rod, Jensen said, "suggests the Yankees have one of the best defensive shortstops playing out of position in deference to one of the worst defensive shortstops." A-Rod won two Gold Gloves as a shortstop before he came New York in 2004."

Hello Rumples,

You know me...any chance to make fun of the Yankers is great. However, I would like to see some sort of assessment of the measuring criteria used in this study. It's simply hard to believe Jeter is the "worst fielder at any position". So A-Rod won two gold gloves at the same position Jeter has won three. That alone doesn't sound like much proof at all if any. The rest of the information given in the article sounds impressive, but really says little in exacting detail. Before I have fun going after Jeter on this I will need much more precise facts than this article gives. After all, unlike Joe.G I don't just jump on any negative information about rivals to justify attacking them.

Not convinced,

Korbel

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

It's simply hard to believe Jeter is the "worst fielder at any position".

Korbel, The guy who did the study is a professor of statistical analysis at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. His research is impeccable. But not only that, the analysis of defense has come a long way in the last 10 years, incorporating such things as park factor, the composition of the pitching staff, and more. There are 5-6 different metrics published every year and by all of them, year in and year out, Jeter has been, with the exception of 2005-2006, when he rose to mediocre, the worst shortstop in the major leagues. And, it's not even close: there were years when he handled 80 fewer chances than an average shortstop, 120 fewer than the top.

What Jeter does a good job of is looking flashy. He, however, breaks slowly on balls and makes routine plays look fabulous. He has almost no range to his right and that's the main reason he's acquired the nickname Derek "Past a Diving" Jeter. He does have a fabulous arm. He's perfected the jump throw, a technique which has cost him a zillion outs as it slows down his release.

 

[korbel]

Korbel, The guy who did the study is a professor of statistical analysis at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. His research is impeccable. But not only that, the analysis of defense has come a long way in the last 10 years, incorporating such things as park factor, the composition of the pitching staff, and more. There are 5-6 different metrics published every year and by all of them, year in and year out, Jeter has been, with the exception of 2005-2006, when he rose to mediocre, the worst shortstop in the major leagues. And, it's not even close: there were years when he handled 80 fewer chances than an average shortstop, 120 fewer than the top.

What Jeter does a good job of is looking flashy. He, however, breaks slowly on balls and makes routine plays look fabulous. He has almost no range to his right and that's the main reason he's acquired the nickname Derek "Past a Diving" Jeter. He does have a fabulous arm. He's perfected the jump throw, a technique which has cost him a zillion outs as it slows down his release.

Hello Rumples,

I am not saying anyone is right or wrong. I am saying the alleged complex statistical data used to measure and rate players is not present in either the summary the article or you provide....though what you say offer a bit more insight. Every word of what you and the article says may be perfectly true, but the proof simply is not available in these summaries. We all know that the vote for Gold Gloves can be affected by popularity. But, saying a three time Gold Glove winner is the "worst fielder at any position" should be accompanied by details not just a sensational announcement summarizing the report. If I say Ruth was a more productive home run hitter than Bonds or Aaron I can prove it by showing Ruth hit more home runs at a faster rate per games played (3.5) or at bats (11.76) compared to Bond's (3.9) and (12.9) or Aaron's (4.36) and (16.37). And, If I remove the years Ruth was a pitcher, as well as the "Dead Ball Era" years he played and start with 1920, the rate goes to (3.17) and (10.94) respectively. This kind of proof is what I want to see in conjunction with sensational headlines. Otherwise it's just a lot of bluster to me. Yes, I hate the Yankers. But, I don't want to be cheap about it by jumping onto the bandwagon of every report that tantalizies my fan allegiance without showing proof. After a google search I could not find any data supporting the conclusion about Jeter...so far. Yes, the headlines are interesting. But that's all for now.

Proof please,

Korbel