I don't know if anyone wants to get into this, but it's something that's always been in the back of my mind. How much of prostitution is controlled by gangs or the mafia? How is it different in Canada versus the US? Is it really possible to be independent without having to answer to anyone? Genuinely curious. It's certainly not something I would bring up while I'm with a provider. Even with some providers that I've known for a while, I just can't ask them about this. I understand if you don't want to get into it, but I had to ask.
The Underworld and Prostitution
- Thread starter gurgeh85
- Start date
Hello gurgeh85
Just make a breakdown of the profits running a agency at the moment you will have your answer ..........
https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...oncret-links-to-the-biker-gangs-and-the-Mafia
Same subject
http://www.oocities.org/wiseguywally/ScottSteinert.html
Scott Steinert was born in Wisconsin, America, in 1962 and relocated to Quebec with his family at the age of eight. Not much is known about his early years but, by the early 90s, Steinert had become a feared member of the Hells Angels Montreal chapter. He was now extremely influential and owned three stripper agencies and an escort service.
The Hells Angel became godfather to the Laval based Death Riders motorcycle gang after Michael "L'Animal" Lajoie-Smith's August 30, 1996 conviction for planting a bomb at the Le Gascon stripclub in Lachenaie. He now supervised the gang's activities in Laval and the lower Laurentians.
Later that year, Steinert moved into the extravagant Lavigueur mansion on Ile-Jesus. He put up an eight-foot high fence around the property and installed security cameras on the estate. Steinert even had his bodyguard, Donald Magnusen, move into one of the homes on the property.
Hells Angels Montreal Chapter
The Lavigueur estate became his base of operations and Steinert often conducted business with other Hells Angels and members of his puppet club, the Death Riders, there. He also directed and starred in several porno movies on the property, the most famous of which is Babe's Angel.
In late August, 1997, as the war between the Hells Angels and Rock Machine raged on, Steinert's escort service was torched by rivals. But it was only a temporary setback and business continued as usual.
On the evening of November 4, 1997, just weeks after Steinert's marriage, he called his bodyguard Donald Magnusen and explained that they had a meeting to attend. Magnusen left his house in tears and the two never returned.
The Surete du Quebec, who believed Steinert had went into hiding to escape deportation, issued a warrant for his arrest on January 22, 1998. He was also charged with possessing goods obtained with the proceeds of crime and seized the Lavigueur estate, two houses in Sorel, and a garage.
The truth behind Steinert's disappearance unfolded on May 23, 1998, when police discovered the Magnusen's corpse in the St. Lawrence Seaway. Steinert's body floated to the surface almost a year later, on April 15, 1999. The Hells Angels had beaten both men to death, wrapped them in plastic, and dumped the bodies in the river. The motive behind the murders has yet to be revealed.
Cheers
Booker
For one I have to confirm that us independents have NOTHING to do and absolutely no contact with any kind of organized crime...
Same goes for my limited experience with agencies. No one was paying any kind of cuts to anyone.
Apparently they are much more active in the "protection business" with legitimate businesses like bars and restaurants.
Same goes for my limited experience with agencies. No one was paying any kind of cuts to anyone.
Apparently they are much more active in the "protection business" with legitimate businesses like bars and restaurants.
Booker, I don't see how breaking the profits gives an answer to the question.
It's obvious that gangs and mafia are present in the business. It is also obvious that they do not control the markets of escort agencies and massage parlour. The infos available from LE tend to show a bigger involvement in strip clubs, but even there, there it is not a systematic protection racket. Their interest is the control of the drug market in these places. I would add to Amelie's answer the same observation for massage parlors. Agencies and MPs are highly competitive markets. It would be way too expensive for OC to try to take control. The main involvement I have seen here in Québec is a couple of parlors operated by women who had family members in the HA. They were totally independent, however. And there is no way parlors could generate significant profits for those organizations.
It's obvious that gangs and mafia are present in the business. It is also obvious that they do not control the markets of escort agencies and massage parlour. The infos available from LE tend to show a bigger involvement in strip clubs, but even there, there it is not a systematic protection racket. Their interest is the control of the drug market in these places. I would add to Amelie's answer the same observation for massage parlors. Agencies and MPs are highly competitive markets. It would be way too expensive for OC to try to take control. The main involvement I have seen here in Québec is a couple of parlors operated by women who had family members in the HA. They were totally independent, however. And there is no way parlors could generate significant profits for those organizations.
I don't think anyone can control the market. Even in legalized countries most sex workers prefer to work outside of regulations. And it's pretty easy to work outside of regulation. Sex is not like drug or alcohol. It doesn't need to be manufactured or imported and anyone can do it from their home. Gugu said it well: organized crime (or government) control drugs by establishing a monopoly on the supply. Gangs make war or negotiate to determine territories. There's no way anyone can effectively create a monopoly on sex.
Also, the line between ''organized crime'' and ''government'' is a blurred line. Much like between ''prostitution'' and ''regular sex''. If police can't enforce regulations in a legal system, organized crime can't effectively control it either in a criminalized system. That doesn't mean they are not involved. People confuse ''being involved'' and ''controlling''. I bet there are plenty of restaurants and shops that are owned by organized crime, that doesn't mean they control the food industry.
Also, the line between ''organized crime'' and ''government'' is a blurred line. Much like between ''prostitution'' and ''regular sex''. If police can't enforce regulations in a legal system, organized crime can't effectively control it either in a criminalized system. That doesn't mean they are not involved. People confuse ''being involved'' and ''controlling''. I bet there are plenty of restaurants and shops that are owned by organized crime, that doesn't mean they control the food industry.
Great! But I felt I was flipping a coin in regards with what was meant by breaking the profits.
I always had the feeling that agencies and parlors profits were exaggerated. Some make good money, but those who do have to work very hard. They deserve the profits. So when ownership and operations are separated, the operators will want to put as much profit in their pocket.
The Red Light era would be a good case study in that regard. Basically, the higher echelon was triangular. There was an ownership, rent seeking, class that made its money from their estates: clubs, cabarets, hotels and brothel houses. They were invisible. From what I've read, the mafia was present in the ownership, but there were also many mainstream Montreal capitalists. The operators were distinct, paying mostly fixed rents to the owners. If the Madams lost money in the operations, it was here own, and so for the profits. Bribing was important, LE was all over the place. They had the power over everybody and benefited from it.
In such a triangular system, it's easier for OC to try to establish monopolies. You simply bring the bribing at higher echelons. But they did not have to, the market was large enough to accommodate many players. I believe lower echelons of the Mafia were also present in some operations like gambling. Ownership, however, was in the real-estate business.
The pimps never had a major place in the system. Their main role was in the recruitment. The Madams would pay them a one shot deal for each recruit brought. Pimps were irrelevant in the brothel operations, and the protection of the girls working in them. So their traditional business was on the streets.
That system vanished in a couple of years: 1960-1961. After that, the business atomized, spreading all over the city, making it much harder for OC to police the market. Some street gangs could establish some small neighborhood monopolies. But I don't think LE saw ever thought they had a major role in the overall sex industry and the overall OC.
Great post, Patron, particularly in regards to violence. Using violence is the worst possible business model in the sex industry. Any agency owner who starts using physical violence against the girls will not be able to recruit and to keep sex workers. It's that simple.
True that LE is after the chinese operators, In France, In the USA and here in Canada. The Roses d'acier in Paris in Paris were studied by sociologists. They happen to be come all from the same city, most are over 30 and none are forced. Google searches will yield the same LE public relations in the 3 countries. They are the main focus, but they rarely show anything close to human trafficking.
Well now you understand
Well I am still waiting to see a escort agency owner with a few million dollars house !In Montreal
Want being the key word ,but not possible in the actual market
That would depend on your definition of pimps ?
There was a few attempts by Low end OC to take a sort of control in 1996 and 2004 both attempts where not really successful ,but they did regulate posting privilege in the escort section of JDM ,some agencies where not permitted to continue .
As a top Agency Booker at the time ,I was personally contacted ,we where authorized to post between position 3 to 5 ,but no royalties where ever paid .
Cheers
Booker
Once upon a time the mob use to be into that sort of thing. In the 60s you needed to pay tribute to the mob, you did the dirty work and they collected the money. In the 70s the bikers ran some of the sex trade, like the escorts and strip clubs. Now there is no money in it for them.
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