Two explosions at Boston Marathon

[hungry101]

The answer to your question lies within the instructions given to the jurors by the judge in this case. In determining the sentence the jurors where given two choices: life in prison without parole or the death sentence. It is the former which is the appropriate sentence in this case. The death penalty is not justice. It is cruel and inhuman punishment. Punishment based on "an eye for an eye" philosophy is barbaric. Violence carried out by state only perpetuates further violence by cheapening the value of life.

It's not justice to let a murdering bastard live after the fucking horrific job he did on those poor innocent people at the Marathon.

It's natural to want revenge against a killer. I admit that I would like to see this killer tortured in the cruelest way imaginable and finally killed.

However, statistics show that capital punishment simply doesn't work as a deterrent. The classic example was that pickpockets practised their trade at public executions at a time when such trivial theft was a capital crime. Nor does the murder rate decrease in states when it is instituted.

How about this statistic? Not a single executed prisoner has ever committed an additional crime. The only reason capital punishment is not a deterant is because we do not use it enough.

In my opinion, they should use predetor drones to kill the fucking mother. Hanging the son and and using a drone to wipe out the fucking mother would make me feel pretty darn good.

Being a deterrent makes no difference to me, it just saves the tax payers a lot of money to have this POS in jail for 50 years.
Throw the turd in general population during recreation time is all that would be needed.

I agree with you Sol Tee. I don't care if it is a deterrant or not. Kill the fucker in the slowest most gruseome way possible. Fuck him....How's that?

 

[Merlot]

Gentlemen,

The only reason capital punishment is not a deterant is because we do not use it enough.

Really??? Sorry but this has been proven wrong for thousands of years. So-called capital punishment has been used since the beginning in the most heinous ways by hanging, burning alive, decapitation, ripping by horses, drawing and quartering (live dissection), boiling in oil, flailing bodies, sacrificed to lions...and all usually preceded by the most brutal tortures. Heads were mounted publicly, bodies displayed in cages in the town squares, impaled on spikes, left hung from trees. Killers act because of desperation, emotional distress, demented capacity, revenge, and many other reasons they may or may not be in control of at the time. Despite all this killing goes on. Execution ends the threat of the singular killer not the reasons for it. In many cases it may perpetuate more killing. For example: the justified killing of Osama Bin laden was a great coup for justice. It was greatly satisfying to many. To many others it was seen and used as motivation to keep on killing.

From the beginning of recorded time capital punishment was used in the most horrific ways often without hope of real forms of legal defense procedures. Despite that horrific kind of so-called justice without chance of reprieve thousands of years ago killing goes on to this day. So the quoted statement is illogical. People always find reasons to kill from jealousy over infidelity to being cheated to religious extremism to the righteous cause. It's a deterrent to the dead, not the living who feel some kind of cause to kill.

Capital punishment for the surviving Boston Bomber will make him pay for his crime with his life. As you said he won't do it again. That's all it will do. Already there are those, probably beyond his crazy mother, who will take his "martyrdom" as motivation. You can bet that because he's a Muslim the extremists of that religion will misuse his example to their advantage. The cycle goes on.

From the movie Braveheart on the execution deterrant:

After the beheading, William Wallace's body was torn to
pieces. His head was placed on top on London Bridge, his arms and legs sent
to the four corners of Britain as a warning. It did not have the effect
that Longshanks planned.

Cheers,

Merlot

 

[daydreamer41]

Already there are those, probably beyond his crazy mother, who will take his "martyrdom" as motivation. You can bet that because he's a Muslim the extremists of that religion will misuse his example to their advantage. The cycle goes on.

Cheers,

Merlot

That's we need to get rid of those Muslims who want to harm us before they actual do harm us. It's the only way out of this mess.

 

[RobinX]

That's we need to get rid of those Muslims who want to harm us before they actual do harm us. It's the only way out of this mess.

It is precisely this type of attitude which has led to the very existence of terrorism in the world today. Today's terrorism is, in fact, a direct product of American foreign policy through the years.

The US, using the CIA, overthrew Iran's elected prime minister Mohammed Mossadeq in 1953, because he intended to nationalize the Iranian oil industry, replacing him with the Shah of Iran. This generated hatred of the US among the Iranian people, culminating in the overthrow of the Shah by the Iranian Revolution in 1977, lead by Ayatollah Khomeini.

The US then decided to support Iraq's Saddam Hussein against Iran during the Iran-Iraq War (1980-1988). (Yes, Saddam Hussein's regime was strengthened by US support). Eventually, Saddam Hussein felt he was powerful enough to invade Kuwait in 1990.

During this same period the Soviet-Afghan war was taking place (1979-1989). To aid Afghanistan against the Soviets the US, again using the CIA, created and supported Al Qaeda, led by Bin Laden (Yes, Al Qaeda was created by the US). Incidentally, Al Qaeda, which is an abbreviation of “the database” in Arabic, was so named to stand for the computer database of the thousands of Islamist extremists, who were trained by the CIA and funded by the Saudis, in order to defeat the Russians in Afghanistan.

Following Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait, the US then went to war with Iraq during the 1990-1991 Gulf War. This turned Al Qaeda and Bin Laden against the US, with Al Qaeda's terror campaign against the US eventually culminating in 9/11.

Following 9/11, the US then went to war again against Iraq, defeating Saddam Hussein, and replacing him with a Shiite government. Under the new U.S.-backed Shiite regime, the Sunni population of Iraq lost assets, jobs and political power, causing them to begin supporting anti-US terrorist groups such as Al Qaeda. Eventually, under the new U.S.-backed Shiite regime, Al Qaeda of Iraq became even more extremist, expanded to Syria, and changed their name to the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) (Yes, US policy also led to the formation of ISIS).

Thus, if America wants to understand the roots of terrorism in the world today, it merely has to look itself in the mirror.

 

[hungry101]

It is precisely this type of attitude which has led to the very existence of terrorism in the world today. Today's terrorism is, in fact, a direct product of American foreign policy through the years.

The US, using the CIA, overthrew Iran's elected prime minister Mohammed Mossadeq in 1953, because he intended to nationalize the Iranian oil industry, replacing him with the Shah of Iran. This generated hatred of the US among the Iranian people, culminating in the overthrow of the Shah by the Iranian Revolution in 1977, lead by Ayatollah Khomeini.

The US then decided to support Iraq's Saddam Hussein against Iran during the Iran-Iraq War (1980-1988). (Yes, Saddam Hussein's regime was strengthened by US support). Eventually, Saddam Hussein felt he was powerful enough to invade Kuwait in 1990.

During this same period the Soviet-Afghan war was taking place (1979-1989). To aid Afghanistan against the Soviets the US, again using the CIA, created and supported Al Qaeda, led by Bin Laden (Yes, Al Qaeda was created by the US). Incidentally, Al Qaeda, which is an abbreviation of “the database” in Arabic, was so named to stand for the computer database of the thousands of Islamist extremists, who were trained by the CIA and funded by the Saudis, in order to defeat the Russians in Afghanistan.

Following Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait, the US then went to war with Iraq during the 1990-1991 Gulf War. This turned Al Qaeda and Bin Laden against the US, with Al Qaeda's terror campaign against the US eventually culminating in 9/11.

Following 9/11, the US then went to war again against Iraq, defeating Saddam Hussein, and replacing him with a Shiite government. Under the new U.S.-backed Shiite regime, the Sunni population of Iraq lost assets, jobs and political power, causing them to begin supporting anti-US terrorist groups such as Al Qaeda. Eventually, under the new U.S.-backed Shiite regime, Al Qaeda of Iraq became even more extremist, expanded to Syria, and changed their name to the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) (Yes, US policy also lead to the formation of ISIS).

Thus, if America wants to understand the roots of terrorism in the world today, it merely has to look itself in the mirror.

What a bunch of liberal crap. Really? You really believe that those crazy fucking people care about the past 50 years or so and the CIA? Those people have been murdering each other since Cain slew Abel with the jawbone of an ass and the only thing they will ever understand is who has more guns. What a crock of shit. Let us try to understand those crack pots? Yeah right.

I'll tell you one thing. Those nuts can smell fear and sense weakness. And we have the weakest president in the history of the United States. Obama has emboldened all the terrorists. He is in fact a terrorist IMHOP

 

[anon_vlad]

What a bunch of liberal crap. Really?

Can you dispute any of the facts posted by RobinX? The US has intervened in far more countries than he cites.

You really believe that those crazy fucking people care about the past 50 years or so and the CIA?

Would you care if your democratically elected government was overthrown and a dictatorship installed which badly mistreated its own people and favored foreign business interests?

Obama .... is in fact a terrorist IMHOP

Ironically, here you are in agreement with many Muslims, partly due to the number of completely innocent civilians who have become victims of drone strikes.

 

[Merlot]

Gentlemen,

It is precisely this type of attitude which has led to the very existence of terrorism in the world today.

I don't agree with the attitudes that generalize about Muslims being dangerous. I think a lot of it is typical thoughtless stereotyped over reaction. But the reality also is that radicals have created a much more serious threat than it would be in the will of average Muslims.

Those people have been murdering each other since Cain slew Abel with the jawbone of an ass and the only thing they will ever understand is who has more guns. What a crock of shit.

Cain and Abel were not Muslims FYI. The world was killing each other for almost 4000 years of recorded time before Islam came to be. So what's the difference?

Could you also respond to how you distinguish between people of European and Christian decent and beliefs killing 35 million of ourselves in battle alone between World War I and World War II and the killings between Muslims. Have you heard of all the civil wars, religious persecutions, continuous shifting of empires and conquest drowning in blood, near extermination of Native Americans on two continents, and the huge infusion of slavery of the entire Western Hemisphere? Really Hungry...HOW ARE WE BETTER???

As for Obama his decisions got Bin laden and many others, and just killed a major ISIS leader. So what has been weak.

:noidea:

Merlot

 

[hungry101]

Sorry Merlot but no one said that Cain and Abel were Muslim.

I guess I'm just not enlightened like some of the progressives on this board. I think it is disgusting that you can be a mass murder and then go to prison and play pick-up basketball, eat three squares, live in-doors, have conjugal visits, access to a telephone and the internet etc., etc. Meanwhile the victim's families are in tatters. In this case several victims are now amputees. Nope, I will admit it. I'm not above a little sweet revenge. Sometimes society needs it. It is called justice. I don't want to hear some liberal tell me that these two guys did this because of something the CIA did in the 50's. I don't give a fuck. The message should be: If you want to commit an act of terrorism you signed your own death warrant. In the case of these two guys, what a way to show their gratitude to the people of Massachusetts, that allowed their family to immigrate and were given assistance and free schooling etc.

There is something wrong with forward liberal do-gooders like RobinX. You never hear them shed a tear for the victims. They shrug their shoulders and say "what are you gonna do." But as soon as someone is given the death sentence they come out of the woodwork crying foul and talking about criminal’s rights and cruel and unusual punishment. It makes me sick.

 

[hungry101]

Gentlemen,



I don't agree with the attitudes that generalize about Muslims being dangerous. I think a lot of it is typical thoughtless stereotyped over reaction. But the reality also is that radicals have created a much more serious threat than it would be in the will of average Muslims.





Merlot

What Radicals? You mean the Obama administration and their war on the police? Radicals like Al Sharpton and the former attorney general that fucking race baiter. They have caused more social unrest than this country has seen since the 60's. If this is such a racist country than who were all those people that voted for that peice of shit Obama? Lot's of white pople...stupid white people.

 

[lgna69xxx]

You make a TON of sense Hungry101

 

[Merlot]

Gentlemen,

What Radicals?

The Islamic radicals Hungry. Terrorists. How did you make a mistake about that. I'm not one who falls neatly under any label, and I don't think you are one of those very narrow people who only have two labels for Americans...ie...Conservative and Liberal or friend and enemy.

I guess I'm just not enlightened like some of the progressives on this board. I think it is disgusting that you can be a mass murder and then go to prison and play pick-up basketball, eat three squares, live in-doors, have conjugal visits, access to a telephone and the internet etc., etc. Meanwhile the victim's families are in tatters. In this case several victims are now amputees.

So we agree completely. I guess I don't fit the Liberal/Progressive/Socialist/Communist/Tree Hugger labels on that one.

I'm still waiting for an answer, if you will, as "to how you distinguish between people of European and Christian decent and beliefs killing 35 million of ourselves in battle alone between World War I and World War II and the killings between Muslims?" HOW ARE WE ANY BETTER ABOUT KILLING EACH OTHER???

Cheers,

Merlot

 

[daydreamer41]

Gentlemen,



I don't agree with the attitudes that generalize about Muslims being dangerous. I think a lot of it is typical thoughtless stereotyped over reaction. But the reality also is that radicals have created a much more serious threat than it would be in the will of average Muslims.

Cain and Abel were not Muslims FYI. The world was killing each other for almost 4000 years of recorded time before Islam came to be. So what's the difference?

Islam was founded on the murderous rampages of Mohammed, their prophet. Muslims in the Middle East have been murdering Christians. Do you dismiss this Merlot? Is this okay in your book? You can't qualify what an average Muslim is. A Muslim in the US or Canada is living in a different situation than those living in Libya or Yemen or Syria. There are different laws that they live by. Under Sharia law, it is permissible for them to murder the infidel. In the US, they can't e.g. the Boston Marathon murders. Of course there are Muslims who have immigrated to the US and Canada who want nothing to do with Islam. That's called freedom of choice, not AVERAGE. It's amazing how guys like you minimize the damage that Islam is causing the world.

Islam has been here for 1400 years, 600 years less than Christianity and 2500 years or so less than Judaism,but the death destruction is far more as the millions that they killed in the name of Allah and conversion is far more.

Could you also respond to how you distinguish between people of European and Christian decent and beliefs killing 35 million of ourselves in battle alone between World War I and World War II and the killings between Muslims. Have you heard of all the civil wars, religious persecutions, continuous shifting of empires and conquest drowning in blood, near extermination of Native Americans on two continents, and the huge infusion of slavery of the entire Western Hemisphere? Really Hungry...HOW ARE WE BETTER???

Earth to Merlot, World War II at least was started by an atheist demigod named Adolf Hitler. But every war that has happened does not dismiss the dangers that Islam poses. I guess all of those beheadings by ISIS is just smoke and mirrors, a show, but those beheaded don't come back, hmmm? You are entirely naive.

As for Obama his decisions got Bin laden and many others, and just killed a major ISIS leader. So what has been weak.

:noidea:

Merlot

Really, Merlot? How about ISIS and Iraq? Since the idiot in the White House has withdrawn from Iraq, key areas where US troops have died fighting for have fallen to ISIS. you laud the killing of single leaders while American blood was spilled in vain while these barbarians have taken over these areas. No, Merlot, you have no idea, because you follow idiots like Obama and promote his insanity.

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

Found this on the net:

http://counterjihadreport.com/2014/...stion-that-made-the-audience-erupt-in-cheers/

“I know that we portray Islam and all Muslims as bad, but there are 1.8 billion [followers] of Islam,” the law student, who identified herself as Saba Ahmed, began. “We have 8 million plus Muslim Americans in this country, and I don’t see them represented here. But my question is: how can we fight an ideological war with weapons? How can we ever end this war? The jihadist ideology that you talk about, it’s an ideology. How can you ever win this thing if you don’t address it ideologically?”


“There are 1.2 billion Muslims in the world today – of course not all of them are radicals!” Gabriel said. “The majority of them are peaceful people. The radicals are estimated to be between 15 to 25 percent. … But when you look at 15 to 25 percent of the world Muslim population, you’re looking at 180 million to 300 million people dedicated to the destruction of western civilization. That is as big as the United States. So why should we worry about the radical 15 to 25 percent? Because it is the radicals that kill. Because it is the radicals that behead and massacre.”

Gabriel continued to note that the majority of Germans, Russians, Chinese, and Japanese in the 20th century were peaceful people, but the radicals in charge massacred tens of millions of people.

“The peaceful majority were irrelevant,” Gabriel said repeatedly.

“I’m glad you’re here, but where are the others speaking out?” Gabriel asked, before being drowned out by a round of applause. “As an American citizen, you sat in this room and instead of standing up and [asking] something about our four Americans that died [in Benghazi] and what our government is doing to correct the problem, you stood there to make a point about peaceful, moderate Muslims.”

Ahmed did not seem defensive or angry over Gabriel’s response, kindly responding that “as a peaceful American Muslim,” she would like to think that she is not “irrelevant.”

“I’m just as much an American, and I’m very deeply saddened about the lives that were lost in Libya, and I hope that we will find justice for their families,” Ahmed continued. “But I don’t think that this war can ever be won by just the military. You have to bring Muslims to the table to address this.”

The panelists all agreed that the dilemma cannot be solved by the military alone, before one asked Ahmed: “Can you tell me who the head of the Muslim peace movement is?”

The law student laughed and said: “I guess it’s me right now. Thank you.”

That’s when the panel and the audience cheered her.

 

[hungry101]

Merlot - lots of people were killed in WWII. I think Sol Tee brought up a good point. It was the minority that assumed control. I was just reading about the radical Nationalists from the military that took over Japan. The two cults: the Japanese army and the navy (who were at war with each other) took over Japan and set it down the same path as Nazi Germany. Meanwhile the west turned their backs. The Democtratic politican's weakened our military. Our torpedos weren't tested because that money could be better spent buying votes. Neville Chmberlain signed a peace accord with the Hitler etc. etc. And we all know wht happened next.

This is very similar what is happening today with history's latest version of Neville Chamberlain - Barack Hussain Obama. He pulls the US Military out of Iraq and is emptying Gitmo to keep a campaign promise and negotiating an absurd deal with the mulahs of Iran while weakening our military and destroying the will of American's to work by offering record unemployment and various entitlements. Yes, he got Bin Laden but he also brought the JV (ISIS) up to the Varsity with his non-sensical withdrawel policy and he wants us to believe that Benghazi was the result of a U-tube video and Boew Bergdhal was a hero and not an obvious deserter and most probably a colaberator? I am ready for a new administartion.

At least we agree on something.

 

[Merlot]

Gentlemen,

Answer: There's really no historical difference between Christian and Muslim culture in what we and they do among each other and to others outside our cultures. What seems worse is mostly a perception of those who feel they are the victims and what seems to be the dominant crisis of the times.

Yes, he got Bin Laden but he also brought the JV (ISIS) up to the Varsity with his non-sensical withdrawel policy and he wants us to believe that Benghazi was the result of a U-tube video and Boew Bergdhal was a hero and not an obvious deserter and most probably a colaberator?

If you want to lay blame on Obama for those reasons then you must lay blame on Reagan when he went into Beirut in 1983 only to irresponsibly get 241 Marines and other servicemen killed by using the most idiotic engagement procedures: "The sentries at the gate were operating under rules of engagement which made it very difficult to respond quickly to the truck. Sentries were ordered to keep their weapons at condition four (no magazine inserted and no rounds in the chamber). Only one sentry, LCpl Eddie DiFranco, was able to load and chamber a round. However, by that time the truck was already crashing into the building's entryway."

Reagan promised he would keep the troops in place and hunt down those responsible. "U.S. President Ronald Reagan called the attack a "despicable act"[75] and pledged to keep a military force in Lebanon. U.S. Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger, who had privately advised the administration against stationing U.S. Marines in Lebanon,[76] said there would be no change in the U.S.'s Lebanon policy." Instead he had the troops leave Beirut four months later giving a then obscure radial group called Islamic Jihad a great de facto victory. "On February 7, 1984, President Reagan ordered the Marines to begin withdrawing from Lebanon". No doubt U.S. abandonment in the face of terrorism at that time helped encourage the legacy of terror we face now.

In other words your view proposing Obama is the new Neville Chamberlain of appeasement is historically narrow and fails to account for very serious past mistakes. You can keep this discussion to Obama and make your case within those boundaries, but imply he alone is the demon causing this is very shortsighted historically and what we have now is the fountain of many tragic mistakes.

I don't see why we have to rehash all of this in the Boston bombing case. This can go on and on but what we had in Boston is an extremely demented and poisoned family. If they got help from any other terrorist party please provide the link or let's try to stick to the subject and get off of world politics in this case. This animal deserves his sentence. He WILL get it.

..but the death destruction is far more as the millions that they killed in the name of Allah and conversion is far more.

You have absolutely no idea. As you proved with this. I mean NONE!

Earth to Merlot, World War II at least was started by an atheist demigod named Adolf Hitler.

It was started by the harsh Versailles Treaty terms and Appeasement.

Have your opinions as is your right, but you are far from setup to be fully knowledgeable or fair on any of this.

Cheers,

Merlot

 

[anon_vlad]

He pulls the US Military out of Iraq and is emptying Gitmo to keep a campaign promise and negotiating an absurd deal with the mulahs of Iran while weakening our military and destroying the will of American's to work by offering record unemployment and various entitlements. Yes, he got Bin Laden but he also brought the JV (ISIS) up to the Varsity with his non-sensical withdrawel policy

If the oath every American takes to uphold its Constitution means anything, the prisoners of Gitmo should have been tried, not held indefinitely and tortured. If due process doesn't exist, there should be no pretense that the US is a democracy.

Every country on earth and, in particular, the US has to do something for the unemployed. Robots, offshore manufacturing and artificial intelligence will render the vast majority of Americans unneeded as employees within 10 years.

Would you like the US to stay in Iraq forever and engage Iran militarily?

Military spending is projected to comprise 54% of the US budget this year. Would you like it to be more?

 

[hungry101]

If the oath every American takes to uphold its Constitution means anything, the prisoners of Gitmo should have been tried, not held indefinitely and tortured. If due process doesn't exist, there should be no pretense that the US is a democracy.

Would you like the US to stay in Iraq forever and engage Iran militarily?

Military spending is projected to comprise 54% of the US budget this year. Would you like it to be more?

No, every prisoner in Gitmo should have been boiled in oil! Better than letting them having them return to the battlefield. The Obama admin compare the recidivism to purse thieves. But there is a difference: these people want to blow us off the face of the earth! You can't reason with these holy lunatics! You can do one thing: kill them before they kill us.

Merlot we do agree. The kid in Boston received justice. Let us carry out the sentence.

 

[anon_vlad]

No, every prisoner in Gitmo should have been boiled in oil!

The prisoners of Gitmo believe themselves to be soldiers. Do you think that captured German soldiers in WWII should also have been boiled in oil? What about the Chinese in the Korean War or the North Vietmanese in the Viet Nam war? If so, then how do you expect captured Americans to be treated? Should the Geneva convention only be followed in demanding humane treatment for our side in de facto wars?

Even Jeb Bush sometimes acknowledges that the Iraq invasion was a mistake. What would you think if an Arab state invaded the US resulting in the death of 1 million Americans and then said "whoops, no WMD".

By the way, Americans have killed between 30 and 100 times as many Muslims as Muslims have killed Americans. That may please you, but should it please them? They are human beings also. Imagine that you were born one of them.

 

[hungry101]

The prisoners of Gitmo believe themselves to be soldiers. Do you think that captured German soldiers in WWII should also have been boiled in oil? What about the Chinese in the Korean War or the North Vietmanese in the Viet Nam war? If so, then how do you expect captured Americans to be treated? Should the Geneva convention only be followed in demanding humane treatment for our side in de facto wars?

Even Jeb Bush sometimes acknowledges that the Iraq invasion was a mistake. What would you think if an Arab state invaded the US resulting in the death of 1 million Americans and then said "whoops, no WMD".

By the way, Americans have killed between 30 and 100 times as many Muslims as Muslims have killed Americans. That may please you, but should it please them? They are human beings also. Imagine that you were born one of them.

American prisoners where treated quite fucking badly in Asia.

When ISIS enters a village and lops off the heads of the inhabitants or lines up all the men and guns them down in mass graves who gets credit for those body counts? The US? You talk like all the people of the Middle East are n one side and we are on the other. Let us not forget that probably more Muslims have been killed by ISIS than Christians and Jews (all though there are no more Christians in Iraq due to ISIS) Do you think that everyone in the Middle East would like to see a return of the Caliphate? Did you not watch the King of Jordan make a personal bombing run against ISIS? Do you think our allies in the Middle East want to see us make a one sided deal with Iran?

 

[Merlot]

Do you think that captured German soldiers in WWII should also have been boiled in oil? What about the Chinese in the Korean War or the North Vietmanese in the Viet Nam war? If so, then how do you expect captured Americans to be treated? Should the Geneva convention only be followed in demanding humane treatment for our side in de facto wars?

I have to agree. Anger makes people act like hypocrisy is excusable. I know how emotional this subject is, and I know what it feels like to want revenge against terrible people. I was going to say you can't have it both ways but someone would just cite "an eye for an eye" again. Still when you choose to use heinous acts to deal with heinous acts THEY win not you. It's what they want. Excuse going that route against our enemies and eventually they same excuse gets turned around on us. You either stick by the Constitution or you destroy it. That's it.

The people who are angry about Constitutional abuse then calling for brutality of prisoners of any kind should think about where they really stand.

Good luck,

Merlot