Weapons in USA

[Jazzman1218]

I agree with this, even though it goes against my normal libertarian views.

Society changes too much to live by guidelines from the 1700s.

There are simply too many mentally ill now to let them get armed, especially with assault weapons.

Everyone’s life had a purpose in the 1700s and 1800s. Society conformed you to being sane. Your job was hunting, farming, or basic manufacturing and construction, and likely some of all four. Of course you needed a gun for hunting, and possibly to shoot a Native American who might want to scalp you in revenge for the smallpox you brought over as germ warfare. Or the British or French or Spanish or Mexicans, who continued to have wars in North America during the 1800s.

Can you imagine George Washington getting into a Time Machine and seeing what at least 20 percent of the population has become? He would have gone back and written a few more sentences into the Second Amendment, if it was ever really meant to allow a mentally ill young person to buy an assault rifle to begin with. Laws, and interpretations of laws, have to change with the times.

That's exactly right. The 2nd amendment was ratified over 230 years ago when muskets were used and there was no standing army, no national guard, no state police, no sheriffs, no city police. The 2nd amendment is woefully outdated and, unfortunately, has been perverted by the NRA, the gun industry, and the republican politicians who are owned by BIG GUN.

 

[CLOUD 500]

I agree with this, even though it goes against my normal libertarian views.

Society changes too much to live by guidelines from the 1700s.

There are simply too many mentally ill now to let them get armed, especially with assault weapons.

Everyone’s life had a purpose in the 1700s and 1800s. Society conformed you to being sane. Your job was hunting, farming, or basic manufacturing and construction, and likely some of all four. Of course you needed a gun for hunting, and possibly to shoot a Native American who might want to scalp you in revenge for the smallpox you brought over as germ warfare. Or the British or French or Spanish or Mexicans, who continued to have wars in North America during the 1800s.

Can you imagine George Washington getting into a Time Machine and seeing what at least 20 percent of the population has become? He would have gone back and written a few more sentences into the Second Amendment, if it was ever really meant to allow a mentally ill young person to buy an assault rifle to begin with. Laws, and interpretations of laws, have to change with the times.

I do not agree with this. The left is pushing hard for no guns in other words surrender to the government. The real question to ask what has changed from before till now? Sure before they had muskets but they were capable to kill as the modern semi-automatic firearms are. People are just as busy today as they were before. I said it many times there is something else at play and to always blame guns is kind of like blaming cars for car accident fatalities. Why is there so much mental illness? Why so much radicalization? My theory is social media and television. What George Washington will see is all the technology and how propaganda can spread so easily and fast. Dave DePape who attacked Paul Pelosi not only had a history of mental illness but was also radicalized by far-right propaganda and Qanon. They did not have this in the 1700s. So is it really the fault of the gun like the Socialists like to say?

Here is food for thought. Switzerland has among the most Liberal gun laws in the world, they also have a high rate of gun ownership. But there has not been a mass shooting there since 2001. Liberal voters will go nuts looking at cold hard facts about this one. The culture there is very different compared to the US. Switzerland is my ideal country, they remained neutral from all wars, have a free market, and no social behavior rules.

Switzerland has a stunningly high rate of gun ownership — here's why it doesn't have mass shootings

Here's what the US can learn from Switzerland, which has nearly eliminated mass shootings while maintaining a high rate of gun ownership.

www.businessinsider.com

The Swiss are heavily armed. But mass shootings are rare here

Only the United States and Yemen have more guns per capita than this Alpine nation of 8.5 million people.

www.usatoday.com

Firearms regulation in Switzerland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Somethings to consider. Switzerland has very low poverty thanks to a truly free market far from twisted far-left Socialist policies. They also do not have mass immigration. There are about two million guns in circulation in Switzerland, only the US and Yemen have more.

 

[zayne]

At the end of the day we need to come to terms with the fact that every country has its own culture. It's fruitless to try to impose our vision on others. In America they have "arms" written in the constitution as a sacred right. Over decades their society has been influenced by this right, so it would be silly to try to "undo" culture with a law. Especially since interstate traffic is pretty much open so you can't really implement a proper ban unless every state is on board.

Of course I'm not trying to be an apologist for guns, I just understand that it's a decision that Americans have made, otherwise they would have amended their constitution long ago.

 

[Fradi]

I do not agree with this. The left is pushing hard for no guns in other words surrender to the government. The real question to ask what has changed from before till now? Sure before they had muskets but they were capable to kill as the modern semi-automatic firearms are.

No getting rid of semi automatic weapons is not surrendering to the government it is simple common sense, these weapons are not made for defence or hunting they are made for killing hundreds of people in a matter of minutes. They cannot be compared to muskets and the old firearms when the constitution was written.
The world has evolved but the US population is manipulated and there is far too many that will not give up on these type of firearms. How many more innocent people need to die for the weapon industry to keep flourishing in the US. In the end it is about power and money and a population that is fixated on guns and actually believes the BS that the gun industry keeps feeding them.
it will take a couple of generations before this even has a chance to start taking hold.
I have spent a lot of time in the US and a good portion of my family live there and yes I am afraid for them and their children, no where else in the world do you see the amount of gun violence and mass shootings as there.
Yes there are many mentally disturbed people in the US there are many in other countries also but they do not have such easy access to semi automatic weapons and it is not made so easy for them to slaughter so many people.
I will never be convinced that any citizen needs to be able to purchase and carry a semi automatic weapon.

 

[CLOUD 500]

While Trudeau continues to attack law-abiding gun owners, he just removed mandatory jail sentences for:

1. Robbery with a gun
2. Extortion with a gun
3. Weapons trafficking
4. Drive-by shootings
5. Shooting with intent to endanger a life
6. Using a gun in a commission of a crime
7. Illegal firearm possession

One has to wonder what goes on in leftists heads? Beats me. Weird logic. Bust on law abiding gun owners because he wants to reduce weapons crimes but get easier on criminals. It is as if he is making it easier for criminals. Weird.

LILLEY: Trudeau reducing sentencing requirements for serious gun crimes

Smuggling illegal guns and selling them on the street is a big problem, so why is Trudeau dropping sentencing requirements for these crimes?

torontosun.com

 

[sene5hos]

Homicide Is A Leading Cause Of Death Among Children In U.S., Study Finds

Child homicide rates rose by nearly 28% during the pandemic.

www.forbes.com

The study, authored by researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and published in the journal JEMA Pediatrics, analyzed over 38,000 homicide victims under 17 years old between 1999 and 2020.

Child homicide rates have increased by an average of 4.3% between 2013 and 2022, though rates increased by 27.7% between 2019 and 2020.

 

[CaptRenault]

Writer and data analyst Steve Sailer points out that recent CDC data on deaths by homicides reveals that the gun problem in the U.S. is not caused by the guns themselves but by certain people who are misusing the guns, specifically young black males.

*NH=non hispanic

CDC finally reports on gun homicides in 2020

On May 10, 2022, the CDC issued a new report on gun homicides and gun suicides in 2020. Not in 2021, which ended over 4 months ago, but in 2020, which ended over 16 months ago. Still, 2020 was an important year, so I pulled up the CDC\'s Wonder database and graphed the number of...

www.unz.com

On May 10, 2022, the CDC issued a new report on gun homicides and gun suicides in 2020. Not in 2021, which ended over 4 months ago, but in 2020, which ended over 16 months ago.

Still, 2020 was an important year, so I pulled up the CDC’s Wonder database and graphed the number of male 15-34 year old victims of gun homicides by race by month from 1999 to 2020. Why youngish males?

Unlike the FBI, which tries to count both victims and perpetrators of murders, the CDC records only victims of homicides. (But the CDC handles Hispanics much more adeptly than the FBI does.)

So one problem with the CDC’s demographics is it doesn’t tell you the demographics of the perps. But by focusing on victims in the lively sector — young men — you can get a pretty good sense of who is doing the shooting as well.

And it sure looks to me like America has a young black male shooting problem, both in general and especially during the current Racial Reckoning following George Floyd’s death. It would seem like the Establishment consensus that the biggest problem facing young black men was too much law and order has definitively been tested in the real world since 5/25/20.

But you won’t hear that from the CDC, at least not in those words.

Highlights from the CDC report:

Results: From 2019 to 2020, the overall firearm homicide rate increased 34.6%, from 4.6 to 6.1 per 100,000 persons.
The overall age-adjusted firearm suicide rate among persons aged ≥10 years remained nearly level between 2019 and 2020 (7.9 and 8.1 per 100,000 persons, respectively [relative change = 1.5%]) …
However, drug overdose deaths were up dramatically in 2020, likely due to drug dealers adding fentanyl to other recreational drugs to enhance the effects. (E.g., George Floyd might well have not known his meth had fentanyl in it. But nobody is supposed to ever be reminded of Floyd’s fentanyl ingestion, even though it might save a lot of lives.)

Young persons, males, and Black persons consistently have the highest firearm homicide rates, and these groups experienced the largest increases in 2020. These increases represent the widening of long-standing disparities in firearm homicide rates. For example, the firearm homicide rate among Black males aged 10–24 years was 20.6 times as high as the rate among White males of the same age in 2019, and this ratio increased to 21.6 in 2020. …
Gun homicide victimizations increased 39.5% among blacks from 2019 to 2020, 28.4% among non-Hispanic whites, 27.0% among American Indians, 25.8% among Hispanics, but fell 4.2% among Asians despite Trump uttering the genocidal words “China virus.”

The findings of this study underscore the importance of comprehensive strategies that can stop violence now and in the future by addressing factors that contribute to homicide and suicide, including the underlying economic, physical, and social inequities that drive racial and ethnic disparities in multiple health outcomes. For example, policies that enhance economic and household stability (e.g., temporary assistance to families, child care subsidies, tax credits, housing assistance, and livable wages) can reduce family poverty and other risk factors for homicide and suicide (e.g., family stress and substance use) (3,4,12–14). Communities can also implement locally driven approaches that address physical and social environments that contribute to violence and other inequities, with the potential for immediate benefits. Approaches such as enhancing and maintaining green spaces and the remediation of vacant buildings can reduce opportunities for violence and promote positive social interactions. These approaches have been associated with significant reductions in risk for firearm violence (13,15). For example, a study in a major U.S. city found that restoration of vacant lots (e.g., cleaning up debris or adding vegetation) was associated with significant reductions in firearm assaults, with the largest reduction (29%) in areas with the highest poverty (15).

Or, you know, we could go back to policing like on May 24, 2020 and try to get illegal handguns out of the pockets and glove compartments of criminals. That might have a more immediate effect than, say, enhancing and maintaining green spaces. Not that those aren’t good things to do, but when you find your hole is 34.6% deeper than last year, the first thing to do is to stop digging.

You can see the Ferguson Effect take hold in 2015-2016, then the Pax Sessions of 2018 after the Justice Department stopped egging on criminals like the Obama Justice Department had during the Black Lives Matter era after Ferguson. But then black males started getting restless in 2019, and more so in the winter of 2020, then the doors blew off in June 2020 with murders peaking in July 2020 and remaining extraordinarily high for the rest of the year.

In contrast, the CDC and the press doesn’t want to report the CDC’s own numbers by month so they can blame the pandemic rather than focus attention on the racial reckoning.

 

[Jazzman1218]

Writer and data analyst Steve Sailer points out that recent CDC data on deaths by homicides reveals that the gun problem in the U.S. is not caused by the guns themselves but by certain people who are misusing the guns, specifically young black males.

*NH=non hispanic

View attachment 42948

CDC finally reports on gun homicides in 2020

On May 10, 2022, the CDC issued a new report on gun homicides and gun suicides in 2020. Not in 2021, which ended over 4 months ago, but in 2020, which ended over 16 months ago. Still, 2020 was an important year, so I pulled up the CDC\'s Wonder database and graphed the number of...

www.unz.com

In contrast, the CDC and the press doesn’t want to report the CDC’s own numbers by month so they can blame the pandemic rather than focus attention on the racial reckoning.

View attachment 42949

People kill people and guns make that killing easier and faster.

 

[CLOUD 500]

People kill people and guns make that killing easier and faster.

Guns allows ppl to defend yourself. More on that. I posted an article in the Trudeau gun ban.

 

[IamNY]

People with cars kill people. Using the same logic, we should ban autos, especially in Canada.

Drunk driving is Canada's deadliest crime – and one of our most lightly punished

It's not just Marco Muzzo; in Canada, perpetrators of even the most horrific drunk driving crimes are set free within months

driving.ca

 

[Jazzman1218]

Guns allows ppl to defend yourself. More on that. I posted an article in the Trudeau gun ban.

So in 2020 in the US, where we have more guns than people, over 45,000 people were killed by guns. How often are guns needed to defend their owners? Doesn't a civilized society have law enforcement and non-lethal methods to defend ourselves?

 

[Jazzman1218]

People with cars kill people. Using the same logic, we should ban autos, especially in Canada.

Drunk driving is Canada's deadliest crime – and one of our most lightly punished

It's not just Marco Muzzo; in Canada, perpetrators of even the most horrific drunk driving crimes are set free within months

driving.ca

That's not a logical argument or comparison.

 

[CaptRenault]

...How often are guns needed to defend their owners? Doesn't a civilized society have law enforcement and non-lethal methods to defend ourselves?

Because of leftist anti-police attitudes and policies, especially over the last 10 years, Americans are more in need than ever to own guns for self-defense.

The police in most major American cities have been attacked, disrespected, defunded, undermined, frustrated and blocked from doing their jobs by liberal politicians and prosecutors and no-cash--bail laws. Most of those cities, such as New York, LA, Chicago, Philadelphia etc. are managed by liberal Democrat mayors with liberal prosecutors and those are the places which have huge crime problems.

When government refuses to fulfill its most basic responsibility of upholding law and order, then a civilized society allows its citizens to do whatever is necessary to defend themselves.

27 of Top 30 Crime-Ridden Cities Run by Democrats

A new report shows that the Democrat-run cities and counties are responsible for rising crime rates in Republican states.

www.dailysignal.com

A new report shows that Democrat policies in cities and counties are responsible for rising crime rates in “their otherwise red states.”

The Heritage Foundation today released a 19-page report titled “The Blue City Murder Problem” that includes analysis on crime data and explores who is responsible for rising crime throughout the U.S. (The Daily Signal is Heritage’s multimedia news organization.)

“Those on the Left know that their soft-on-crime policies have wreaked havoc in the cities where they have implemented those policies,” authors Charles Stimson, Zack Smith, and Kevin D. Dayaratna, who are scholars in the Edwin Meese III Center for Judicial and Legal Studies at The Heritage Foundation, wrote in the report.

The authors continued:

It is not hard to understand why ‘reforms’ such as ending cash bail, defunding the police, refusing to prosecute entire categories of crimes, letting thousands of convicted felons out of prison early, significantly cutting the prison population, and other ‘progressive’ ideas have led to massive spikes in crime—particularly violent crime, including murder—in the communities where those on the Left have implemented them.
As of June 2022, the top three cities with the highest homicide rates include Chicago, with 304 homicides; Philadelphia, with 240 homicides; and New York, with 197 homicides, the report said.

The report also highlighted that 27 of the top 30 cities with the highest murder rates as of June 2022 were run by Democratic mayors, except for Lexington, Kentucky, and Jacksonville, Florida, which are run by Republican mayors, and Las Vegas, which has an independent mayor...

 

[Jazzman1218]

Because of leftist anti-police attitudes and policies, especially over the last 10 years, Americans are more in need than ever to own guns for self-defense.

The police in most major American cities have been attacked, disrespected, defunded, undermined, frustrated and blocked from doing their jobs by liberal politicians and prosecutors and no-cash--bail laws. Most of those cities, such as New York, LA, Chicago, Philadelphia etc. are managed by liberal Democrat mayors with liberal prosecutors and those are the places which have huge crime problems.

When government refuses to fulfill its most basic responsibility of upholding law and order, then a civilized society allows its citizens to do whatever is necessary to defend themselves.

27 of Top 30 Crime-Ridden Cities Run by Democrats

A new report shows that the Democrat-run cities and counties are responsible for rising crime rates in Republican states.

www.dailysignal.com

So by that "logic" guns are needed for self defense only in the big cities, right?

 

[neverbored]

This is aging really well...

 

[CaptRenault]

...guns are needed for self defense only in the big cities, right?

People may need guns wherever leftist politicians and prosecutors have made it difficult for the police to do their job. These days such places tend to be big cities but people in more rural areas might need guns, because the police might be far aways when needed. Fortunately, the United States Constitution guarantees Americans, wherever they live, the right be own a gun. Ironically the same Democrat politicians that have weakened the police and coddled criminals have tried to take away the right of Americans to own guns.

 

[CLOUD 500]

So in 2020 in the US, where we have more guns than people, over 45,000 people were killed by guns. How often are guns needed to defend their owners? Doesn't a civilized society have law enforcement and non-lethal methods to defend ourselves?

Under the Liberal plan, they want to defund the police and remove mandatory sentencing like Justin Trudeau did. Something is totally off here. Plus you want to put your faith in police? Someone breaks into your home, do you want to hide like a mouse or have the ability to defend yourself? How many more examples do you need? Uvalde? The Vaughan shooter? The shooter at Wal-Mart? The problem is people wait for the police like the Liberals say to do but in the that time it takes them to come the damage is done as we have seen. To the Liberals ideology is more important then practical solutions. The Liberals make it easier for criminals to commit crime. Your logic is also weird, the US has about 286 million registered vehicles in the US, the NHTSA estimates that about 9,560 people died in a car accident in the US in 2022. With Liberal logic all cars should be banned? Society can still be civilized with the right to bear arms. In Canada even non-lethal methods of defense is prohibited, brass knuckels, bear spray, pepper spray is all prohibited and punishable by the criminal code. You got no right to defend yourself in a Democratic/Liberal society.

 

[CLOUD 500]

That's not a logical argument or comparison.

Yes it is a very logical argument and you know it. You are cherry picking.

 

[CLOUD 500]

Fortunately, the United States Constitution guarantees Americans, wherever they live, the right be own a gun.

Amen to this.

 

[Jazzman1218]

Under the Liberal plan, they want to defund the police and remove mandatory sentencing like Justin Trudeau did. Something is totally off here. Plus you want to put your faith in police? Someone breaks into your home, do you want to hide like a mouse or have the ability to defend yourself? How many more examples do you need? Uvalde? The Vaughan shooter? The shooter at Wal-Mart? The problem is people wait for the police like the Liberals say to do but in the that time it takes them to come the damage is done as we have seen. To the Liberals ideology is more important then practical solutions. The Liberals make it easier for criminals to commit crime. Your logic is also weird, the US has about 286 million registered vehicles in the US, the NHTSA estimates that about 9,560 people died in a car accident in the US in 2022. With Liberal logic all cars should be banned? Society can still be civilized with the right to bear arms. In Canada even non-lethal methods of defense is prohibited, brass knuckels, bear spray, pepper spray is all prohibited and punishable by the criminal code. You got no right to defend yourself in a Democratic/Liberal society.

The vast majority of liberals are not in favor of defunding the police or taking away your precious guns. Liberals, like most Americans, want police accountability and sensible gun safety laws. There are approximately 400 million guns in America and, once again, over 600 mass shootings this year. Studies show gun ownership correlates with more shootings, not less. Also, states with weaker gun safety laws have higher rates of gun related homicides.