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Winter Blues: 2012 Official Offseason Baseball Thread

rumpleforeskiin

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Probably the best source of information (as it has been for years) on the Yankees is the LoHud Yankees blog. Here's their piece on the Yankees punting the next few years, while trying to put the best face on a bad situation.

Transition is supposed to be rocky. It’s a shift from one thing to the next, and there’s an inevitable sense of uncertainty.

This winter, we’re learning what transition in the Bronx looks like.

The Yankees are stuck in a bit of a dead zone, somewhere between the dynasty they used to be and the dynasty they’d like to become. Past icons are aging toward retirement, and so the roster is in a state of flux. Baseball’s new collective bargaining agreement is about to take effect, and so the front office is adjusting its approach.*The winter has been rocky, the future is uncertain, and*the Yankees have responded with a series of one-year contracts to veteran players who have no future in the organization.

It’s their attempt to*maintain*success*at a time of inevitable instability.

When a smaller market team gets to this point, it might react differently. If the Yankees were the Pirates, maybe we’d see Ronnier Mustelier or Melky Mesa penciled into right field. Maybe David Adams or Eduardo Nunez would be projected to play third. Maybe David Phelps would be guaranteed a rotation spot. But the Yankees are the Yankees, and things are different here.

For now, the Yankees have a ton of money tied to a handful of players, some of whom are paid like superstars without performing that way. Their best all-around player is about to reach free agency and sure to demand a massive contract. The franchise is fundamentally attached to a bunch of older players whose only real negative is that they’re old (there’s no reason to turn away from Andy Pettitte except that he’s 40 and clearly can’t help with the rebuilding effort).

And so the Yankees are stuck between yesterday and tomorrow, using today to bridge the gap.

The Yankees want to cut payroll going forward, and even if you disagree with the strategy, you can surely understand it. There are benefits to going above the luxury tax — better roster, better chance at the playoffs, easier to draw fans — but the new CBA made sure that there were also significant benefits to staying below $189 million, and the Yankees are choosing to take advantage of those cost-cutting rewards.

And so, they transition.

They transition to a new way of spending; not so reckless, but also not so overpowering.

They transition to a new way of roster building; without a big name at every position, but still hesitant to trust unproven players.

They transition to a new way of speaking; all about patience without conceding temporary*defeat.

Of course it’s rocky, and of course it’s uncertain* but this is what transition feels like. We’re learning what*transition looks like in the Bronx.


It could be called building a bridge to nowhere. Imagine what they're going to be like the year after this one when they're still paying the shards of Jeter, A-Rod, Sabathia and Teixeira, after Kuroda, Pettitte, and Cano are gone.
 

lgna69xxx

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Did you star in the movie "groundhog day", rumps? Here all this time i thought it was Bill Murray :confused:
Probably the best source of information (as it has been for years) on the Yankees is the LoHud Yankees blog. Here's their piece on the Yankees punting the next few years, while trying to put the best face on a bad situation.

Transition is supposed to be rocky. It’s a shift from one thing to the next, and there’s an inevitable sense of uncertainty.This winter, we’re learning what transition in the Bronx looks like.The Yankees are stuck in a bit of a dead zone, somewhere between the dynasty they used to be and the dynasty they’d like to become. Past icons are aging toward retirement, and so the roster is in a state of flux. Baseball’s new collective bargaining agreement is about to take effect, and so the front office is adjusting its approach.*The winter has been rocky, the future is uncertain, and*the Yankees have responded with a series of one-year contracts to veteran players who have no future in the organization.It’s their attempt to*maintain*success*at a time of inevitable instability.When a smaller market team gets to this point, it might react differently. If the Yankees were the Pirates, maybe we’d see Ronnier Mustelier or Melky Mesa penciled into right field. Maybe David Adams or Eduardo Nunez would be projected to play third. Maybe David Phelps would be guaranteed a rotation spot. But the Yankees are the Yankees, and things are different here.For now, the Yankees have a ton of money tied to a handful of players, some of whom are paid like superstars without performing that way. Their best all-around player is about to reach free agency and sure to demand a massive contract. The franchise is fundamentally attached to a bunch of older players whose only real negative is that they’re old (there’s no reason to turn away from Andy Pettitte except that he’s 40 and clearly can’t help with the rebuilding effort).And so the Yankees are stuck between yesterday and tomorrow, using today to bridge the gap.[/BThe Yankees want to cut payroll going forward, and even if you disagree with the strategy, you can surely understand it. There are benefits to going above the luxury tax — better roster, better chance at the playoffs, easier to draw fans — but the new CBA made sure that there were also significant benefits to staying below $189 million, and the Yankees are choosing to take advantage of those cost-cutting rewards.And so, they transition.They transition to a new way of spending; not so reckless, but also not so overpowering.They transition to a new way of roster building; without a big name at every position, but still hesitant to trust unproven players
They transition to a new way of speaking; all about patience without conceding temporary*defeat.Of course it’s rocky, and of course it’s uncertain* but this is what transition feels like. We’re learning what*transition looks like in the Bronx.
It could be called building a bridge to nowhere. Imagine what they're going to be like the year after this one when they're still paying the shards of Jeter, A-Rod, Sabathia and Teixeira, after Kuroda, Pettitte, and Cano are gone.
 

lgna69xxx

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Geez, I look like a genius this offseason, dont I?

Okay, Yankee Legions. Enough of the hand-wringing. If you just take the time to look around the rest of the American League East, things aren’t quite as dire in this passive Yankee winter as they seem to be. Or so the Yankee high command wants to believe.

Okay, Hal Steinbrenner’s not like his old man and has elected to sit on sidelines this winter and let others like the mad money Guggenheim Partners in Los Angeles and Arte Moreno in Anaheim do all the crazy spending on risky contracts for Zack Greinke and Josh Hamilton, respectively. These contracts may or may not reap instant rewards next season but almost will surely prove to be ill-conceived, strangulating and onerous 3-4 years down the down the road. But while the Yankee fan base angst is certainly justified about a potential 2013 team that too closely resembles the one that was booed out of Yankee Stadium amid a blizzard of strikeouts against the Detroit Tigers last October, only a year older, perhaps one of the famous sayings of wise old Gabe Paul, the Yankee general manager from 1973-77, can put some perspective on all this: “It’s not the hole in the doughnut that counts, but rather the whole doughnut.”

In other words, ignore for the moment all those holes in the Yankee lineup that have been plugged with aging former All-Stars and instead divert your attention to the whole AL East where none of the other teams in the division who’ve continually finished behind the Yankees have improved much either.

ORIOLES
Despite their need for a power outfield bat, they eschewed the free agent market for Hamilton, Nick Swisher, Cody Ross and B.J. Upton and have done nothing this winter other than to re-sign Nate McLouth. Aside from losing Nick Markakis (broken thumb) the last month of the season, everything went right for Buck Showalter’s crew last year in taking the Yankees to the limit. Does anyone expect them to go 16-2 in extra-inning games or 29-9 in one-run games again?

RAYS
The runs-challenged Rays (11th in AL last year) lost their top power hitter (Upton) and best contact hitter (Jeff Keppinger) to free agency and have so far replaced them with only unproven top prospect Wil Myers — at the expense of co-ace James Shields. Right now they look to be even more feeble offensively and still have a major weakness at catcher.

BLUE JAYS
Yes, the blockbuster deal with Miami greatly enhances their lineup with the speed of Jose Reyes and Emilio Bonifacio added to the top. And innings-eater Mark Buehrle and onetime Marlins ace Josh Johnson fill big holes in a starting rotation decimated by injuries last year. But Johnson’s velocity has dropped 2-3 mph since incurring shoulder issues in 2011 and it remains to be seen how he’ll fare going to the AL. The same can be said for R.A. Dickey, who certainly provides even more rotation depth, but is he the true No. 1 the Jays need to make the quantum leap from long-standing AL East mediocrity to the top of the division? Plus, they were also the worst fundamental team in baseball last year — perhaps the biggest challenge for new/old manager John Gibbons.

RED SOX
They spent $39 million apiece on Shane Victorino and Mike Napoli and another $10 million on Jonny Gomez — flawed players all — and their lineup remains a far cry from the intimidating David Ortiz/Manny Ramirez championship years unit. Ryan Dempster should provide much-needed rotation depth but he’s not the No. 1 they need to be considered legitimate contenders again. Still a long ways to go from 93 losses last year.


So this is what GM Brian Cashman & Co. are counting on — that as limited as they’ve been in shoring up the Yankees’ holes this winter, they still have one of the deepest starting rotations, quality-wise, in the game and baseball’s all-time greatest closer (albeit coming back from a career-threatening injury at age 43). With the core of this team — Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Mariano Rivera, CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira, Ichiro Suzuki, Hiroki Kuroda, Kevin Youkilis — all 33 or older next season, they are also counting on fooling Mother Nature. Old teams get hurt. And they are also counting on Curtis Granderson being more about 40-plus homers in 2013 than his 195 strikeouts last year (and 16 more in 30 postseason at-bats). Mostly, though, they are counting on the AL East being the weakest division in baseball and, thus, the easiest path to another postseason.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/madden-yanks-beasts-al-article-1.1221148#ixzz2FBSUu8VZ

By no means is it genius, just common-freakin-sense and not having red blinders "ovah" the eyes, stick with me rumps, you might just learn a thing or "TWO MILLION" about baseball ;)
 
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rumpleforeskiin

It's a whole new ballgame
Jan 20, 2007
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Unlike the delusional twins, I'm willing to admit that my team doesn't look like a competitor in 2013. Here's an interesting take from Jeff Passan of Yahoo. I'll only disagree with him on one point: he doesn't think either the Sox or Yankees can contend in 2014 either. I think the Sox, with the luxury tax not hanging over their heads and a strong farm system, can get back in the game in 2014. It looks like the Yankees will not contend until they get rid of the deadwood after the 2016 season.


While Yankees, Red Sox and Mets slouch, Jays use bold moves like R.A. Dickey trade to reach top
When the money exploded and turned baseball into an oligarchy, the sport's have-nots came to a realization: It would take a staggering level of mismanagement by the game's overlords for them ever to compete consistently again. And when that day came – when the New York Yankees or New York Mets or Boston Red Sox or, better yet, all three – bungled their advantage, every team with the wherewithal would strike and strike fast.
Then the Mets went shady and stopped competing.

And the Red Sox turned dysfunctional and stopped pitching.

Now the Yankees got decrepit and stopped spending.

The Yankees, handcuffed by the desire to dip beneath the $189 million luxury-tax threshold next season, have signed five free agents this offseason. Four of them received one-year deals. The other got two years. Their average age is 36.4.

Perhaps the Yankees were attracted to them because they could supplement their salaries with Social Security benefits. Either way, none will be around when the Yankees move into the middle of the decade with a mediocre core, bloated payroll, middling farm system and legitimate competition from Toronto, Tampa Bay, Baltimore and Boston.

At least the Red Sox have a farm system of which to speak. They're going to need it. If Mike Napoli's contract goes through, they'll have spent nearly $150 million on free agents this offseason and improved … some? A little? Their clubhouse certainly will be more jovial, but their attempts at forcing good chemistry through good-guy poaching is counterintuitive. Real chemistry is organic, usually the product of winning; this is no chicken-or-egg debate. Napoli and Shane Victorino and Ryan Dempster and Jonny Gomes aren't going to turn a 93-loss team into a championship contender. The Red Sox, baseball's best run franchise during the first decade of this millennium, no longer inspire fear.

No wonder, then, teams feel like now is a particularly ripe time to make a run. Not only could the Yankees, Red Sox and Mets enter the 2013 season with the playoffs a troublesome endeavor, it's not like 2014 is looking all that bountiful for any of them, either.
 

lgna69xxx

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It's official according to MLB Network

RA Dickey to the Jays (wow! Jays are the real deal now to compete with the Yanks for tops in the AL East) and Stephen Drew to the red sox for $10 million next season. (yikes!) :lol:

In other news, seems Nick Swisher is in Cleveland to have dinner tonight with team Pres. Mark Shapiro...... he would look great in RF for the Indians, wouldnt he rumps?
 

rumpleforeskiin

It's a whole new ballgame
Jan 20, 2007
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RA Dickey to the Jays (wow! Jays are the real deal now to compete with the Yanks for tops in the AL East) and Stephen Drew to the red sox for $10 million next
Iggy, that's not how you spell Rays. It's R-A-Y-S.

I will give you this, though. You're the last person standing who thinks the Yanks will be competitive before 2016. Well, you and Joe.
 

lgna69xxx

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Thats funny because i saw a power ranking this weekend that was done after the winter meetings that had the Yanks 8th in all of baseball and only 3 AL teams ahead of them, the red sox were 13th overall, which is being VERY kind.
I will give you this, though. You're the last person standing who thinks the Yanks will be competitive before 2016. Well, you and Joe.
 

smuler

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I wish RA Dickey the best

It is a good day in Met land today, with the prospects we got

Best Regards

Smuler
 

rumpleforeskiin

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It is a good day in Met land today, with the prospects we got
It certainly is. The Jays are getting hammered for what they paid for Dickey.
 

Joe.t

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In other BB news today the Red Sox signed the corpse of one Steven Drew which cements the probality that they will have the worst record in all of baseball in 2013, congrats Cherington on this forgone conclusion.

Prediction - R.A Dickey throws his first perfect game against the totally inept, fraud of a team the Red Sox in 2013.

Iggy - Lets make a deal, from now on I will stop posting "FACTS" if you stop "OWNING" the self proclaimed Mr "I know Jack shit" on a daily basis, I feel that we are a few "FACTS" and "OWNINGS" away from him leaving the thread, my life would not be the same if I couldn't read his delusional postings, especially his postings based on metrics that don't mean a hill of beans in the real baseball world(maybe in the delusional world but certainly not the real world).
 

rumpleforeskiin

It's a whole new ballgame
Jan 20, 2007
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Where I belong.
In other BB news today the Red Sox signed the corpse of one Steven Drew which cements the probality that they will have the worst record in all of baseball in 2013.
Actually, Mr. 25%, the Yankees were interested in Stephen Drew until they found out he is only 30, or as the call the under 35 set in the Bronx, "Jail Bait." ESPN is reporting that the Yankees have offered Drew a contract for 2019.

...especially his postings based on metrics that don't mean a hill of beans in the real baseball world(maybe in the delusional world but certainly not the real world).
Which metrics do you mean, Joe. The ones that have delivered the Red Sox two world championships in the last 9 years? The same metrics that keep winning world championships for everybody but the Yankees, the team that has spent $2,000,000,000 to fail over the last 10 years?
 

rumpleforeskiin

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MLBTR is reporting that the Yankees have signed Rusty Staub to a one year $7M contract. They are also reportedly negotiating with Vida Blue's agent.
 

rumpleforeskiin

It's a whole new ballgame
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They spent $39 million apiece on Shane Victorino and Mike Napoli and another $10 million on Jonny Gomez — flawed players all — and their lineup remains a far cry from the intimidating David Ortiz/Manny Ramirez championship years unit. Ryan Dempster should provide much-needed rotation depth but he’s not the No. 1 they need to be considered legitimate contenders again. Still a long ways to go from 93 losses last year.
Did Bill Madden really say "Gomez"? I hope they don't pay him to write this drivel.
 

lgna69xxx

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Really??? Interesting since i have been watching MLB Network all afternoon and have heard nothing short of what a great trade and signing it was. With RA's $5mil contract for next season and his 2 yrs $25mil extension that equals an avg of $10mil a year for a reigning cy young champ = phenominal and also puts the Jays final piece in place to compete for a World Series Title NOW.

As i was telling Doc, (who does not like the deal) when you have a shot to get a true ace in Dickey, and you are only that piece of the puzzle away from being a contender for the games biggest prize, you do it and never think twice. The 2 young studs the Jays gave up to get him are projected to be very good players, key word is "projected" meanwhile Dickey has proven what he can do and the way money is flying around these days for starting pitching, $10mil avg a year is a STEAL for RA! Like they said on MLB Net today, with a knuckler like Dickey, age is not a concern, he is young for a knuckler and could very well have 5 great seasons, or more, left in him. Great Job today by the Blue Jays.



It certainly is. The Jays are getting hammered for what they paid for Dickey.
 

lgna69xxx

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And in the REAL WORLD, (not rumpie-land) the red sox still S-U-C-K. See i can play also rumps, but unlike your posts, mine are true ;)
MLBTR is reporting that the Yankees have signed Rusty Staub to a one year $7M contract. They are also reportedly negotiating with Vida Blue's agent.
 

rumpleforeskiin

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Jan 20, 2007
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Really??? Interesting since i have been watching MLB Network all afternoon and have heard nothing short of what a great trade and signing it was.
Here's one for starters. (I must confess, I'm not a big Keith Law fan.) Most of the people I follow on Twitter are saying that D'Arnaud alone was too much for one year of Dickey.

For just one year of Dickey's services, the Mets get a ridiculously large haul. Travis d'Arnaud has been among the top catching prospects in the game for two years, and, if he can stay healthy, will give the Mets a centerpiece position player who fills a critical spot on the field while producing enough to be among the top 3-4 catchers in the league, if not better.

That caveat about health is particularly relevant to d'Arnaud, who has already missed time as a pro with back and knee problems, as well as acute injuries like a broken finger, leaving him with an average of just 88 games played over his five full seasons in pro ball, and never more than 126 in a single year. Catchers are more susceptible to injury because of the nature of their job, and if d'Arnaud is injury-prone to begin with, he might have a hard time developing or playing enough to reach his potential.

The Mets also get a wild-card pitching prospect in Noah Syndergaard, a big kid who looks the part of a starter but doesn't have the repertoire to be more than a back-end guy yet. Syndergaard has touched 100 mph as a starter, and will comfortably work from 92-97, flashing an average to above-average changeup and showing a very smooth, easy arm stroke that he can repeat without much difficulty. The Jays have worked with him for two-plus years to develop an average breaking ball, but he has yet to find one; you could grade his curveball as potentially above-average, and he has the high slot for it, but if he doesn't have that laxity in his wrist there's a good chance the pitch never gets there. He's a solid acquisition for the Mets because of his size, delivery, and easy velocity, but he's also very high-beta and could end up a back-end guy or even a reliever if that third pitch doesn't make some major strides.

The third prospect turns out to be significant, which is counter to early rumors that he was a throw-in. Wuilmer Becerra got $1.4 million from Toronto out of Venezuela in 2011, and he's had just 39 pro at-bats, with his 2012 season shortened by a broken jaw after being hit in the face by a pitch. He has a sweet-looking right-handed swing with strong hands, keeping his head steady with great hip rotation and loft for future power as his body matures. He should have the arm for right field, although I'd like to see the Mets work out this slight hesitation he has before release. There's no way a player like Becerra, who will be lucky to see the majors before 2016, could stand in the way of the Jays making this trade, but his inclusion makes the return all the better for the Mets.
 

lgna69xxx

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Sorry bro, i cannot promise that and really, half the time i am not even trying to. The facts about how far apart the Yanks and red sox are as far as being good and not so good are overwhelming, it is not my fault some cannot admit this, i just post the truth and let the chips fall where they may.

Stephen Drew for $10mil :confused: :eyebrows: I am truly at a loss as to WTH Cherington is trying to do. Even the Napoli deal is not yet done and he could walk. Is he injured? failed the physical?

Baseball is a wonderful sport and even as a true blue Yankees fan, i am pleased to see what Teams like the Blue Jays and Dodgers are doing for their fanbase, not to mention seeing the Royals trade for some great starting pitching, it is refreshing to say the least. Hell, even the Astros went out and made a sigining in Carlos Pena today!

The ONE name still out there for starting pitching is Kyle Loshe. Will Cherington overpay in price and terms? I'd laugh if the Orioles signed him, they really should btw.

Iggy - Lets make a deal, from now on I will stop posting "FACTS" if you stop "OWNING" the self proclaimed Mr "I know Jack shit" on a daily basis
 

rumpleforeskiin

It's a whole new ballgame
Jan 20, 2007
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Where I belong.
MLBTR is now reporting that the Yankees had offered Harmon Killebrew a one year deal in the vicinity of $8 M, depending on the results of Killebrew's physical. Unfortunately for the desperate Yankees, Killebrew, who died in 2011, failed the physical and the contract was voided. The Yankees are now trying to work out a deal with Jimmie Foxx.
 

lgna69xxx

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Ok rumps, it was funny the first time tonight with Rusty Staub coming out of retirement, but now you are just "owning" yourself, geez Joe, now do you believe me as to how easy it is to do? :lol:

Oh Snap! had to read that over, i thought you said Jamie Foxx! now that would of been better rumps lol. Man, these winter blues have been anything but blue!
 
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