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Thread: DFK... DATY... BBBJ... so why use the condom?

  1. #1

    DFK... DATY... ... so why use the condom?

    I can see that a number of escorts allow DFK, DATY and/or .
    Fine by me, but I don`t understand why, in these cases, the use of a condom is mandatory.
    Why bother about the condom then?

    From a STD point of view, I can`t understand why DFK/DATY/ would be seen as low risk and intercourse without condom seen as high risk.
    Somewhere it doesn`t add up.

    I have read a number of medical web sites on the subject and I believe I understand the different STD.
    I just don`t understand the the use of a condom when DFK, DATY and is allowed on the basis of safety.
    Is this market pressure versus STD`s statistics?

    Could someone enlighten me about this?
    Last edited by alex_lean; 12-25-2003 at 10:43 PM.

  2. #2
    NYME (proud representative of the "we"),

    I did a search on this board using "std".
    I haven't been able to find a thread where the question I brought was asked/discussed.

    If you have a thread in mind, as you seem to have, I'd be more than thankfull if you could provide it.

    That said, I don't want "expert bullshit", I just want points of view(providers' would be great).

  3. #3

    Re: New Poster

    Originally posted by StripperLover

    When doing a search that contains 3 letters (4 is the minimum) add a "*" after the 3rd letter & the system will allow it.


    Maybe you could lighten up on Alex a bit as he's only posted 7 times before ?


    Thanks for taking my defense but:
    1) More precisely, the search was on "STD*". I know about the 3 letters limitation of the search engine. I looked at the search results and couldn't find what I was looking for. Hence my post.
    2) I have posted more than 7 posts, but my user ID got deleted. So I am starting from "0" again.

    I appreciate your willingness to help.
    A good example of what a Merbite should be.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003

    stop picking on alex_lean

    As an sp I will give you my reasons, penetration tends to create miniscule tears that allow STD`s to pass as any open cut will. DATY, , DFK do not create similar tears, and therefore are considered low risk. That said if either of us has chapped lips, a cancer sore, bit their tongue or cheek or something similar then all of the above are considered high risk. My information is based on pamphlets I picked up at a CLSC.

    They will forget what you said,
    they will forget what you did,
    but they will never forget the way you made them feel.

  5. #5
    Originally posted by NYME
    let me put it this way. what kind of nitwit asks for medical advice on a bulliten board? Unless the object is to create a problem
    go see a doctor
    Maybe you should learn to read before you post.
    Alex Wanted to know Why SP`s that do Allow Daty,,DFK do not allow BBPenetration.
    He did not ask to be enlightened on STD`s Itself.

  6. #6
    Originally posted by nic frenchy

    Maybe you should learn to read before you post.
    Alex Wanted to know Why SP`s that do Allow Daty,,DFK do not allow BBPenetration.
    He did not ask to be enlightened on STD`s Itself.
    You are quite right Nic.
    That is indeed very much the point of my question.

    I hardly believe that one of the guys here can answer to my question, but knowing that a number of ladies/escorts/providers read this board, I was hoping some of them could explain their point of view.

  7. #7
    for giving daty, men should use dental dams

    also sp should only offer cbj instead of to prevent stds from spreading.

    for kissing , i don`t know how one can prevent or coverup during kissing. but kissing has low risk of stds

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2003

    Sexual Encounter

    To all the above,

    If I take you at face value, as soon as you have more than one sexual partner after kindergarden, you are at risk!!

    I unfortunately have to somewhat agree with you!!


  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    They are more care about the pregnant than to catch a disease.

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    another thing, they want to have fun too.

  11. #11
    My dear Zaphyr you sound`s to be a really safe SP.
    I agree that any fluids contact is a risk for both partners.
    A sore in the mouth, a cut on the lips or an pop-up acne button can be an open door to the other person`s health system. It up to you to choose if it`s worth to take the risk.
    I use to be quite innocent at the beginning of my trip into this hobby, but since the latest review about SP or customers ``getting all kinds of unwanted company`` (GAKOUC), I now choose the straight old plain FS, no daty, no , no more DFK and no more visit to greek island.

    I`m going to wait for the next virgin ``débarquement`` into this industry otherwise the risks are too high lately, not worth it!

    By the way if any of you guys see a virgin drop into this hobby, GIVE ME A WACK ;-P


  12. #12

    Exclamation Daty

    Quote Originally Posted by aabyss
    I go DATY on her (pussy percing) but was a bit turned off by the that did not do it for me either.
    I`m new to MERB, but I`ve been reading a disturbing number of ``hobbyists`` that love DATY. DATY is great guys.....but with a prostitute????? That`s unsafe sex and a excellent way to catch herpes simplex type-II. Aids or Hep-C are unlikely unless you have a cut in your mouth.....BUT...even the slightest abrasion from flossing or brushing before you meet up with her and you can easily catch HIV/Hep-C. HIV/HEP-C/Herpes-II are ALL PRESENT in vaginal secretions. These girls have sex with like 100 different guys a month.

    Herpes-II is spread through mucosal surfaces and is thus easily transmitted through saliva. Even worse a sp can be shedding viral particles in her vaginal secretions whether she has herpes sores (symptomatic) or not!. Second, although HSV-I resides in nerve centers near your ear and HSV-II resides in nerves near the base of your spine (connected to your ass/dick e.c.t), both HSV type one and two can spread from the mouth. In summary, symptoms of HSV-II are in your ass/dick/vagina, but transmission is possible through the mouth. GUYS????>>>> a really worth it??? I love getting escorts despite having a hot girlfriend because its a fetish of mine. Some girl you just met 5 minutes ago...who cares what her name is..bamm next thing you know you got her bent over and your sticking it in. That turns me on crazy. Intercourse with a condom is very safe. But when I`m in the heat of the moment I don`t delude myself into thinking this is some wholesome girl. Escorts are like 100X more likely to have STD`s. You guys that do regular and DATY with prostitutes....I got two words for you. (1) Stupid (2) Crazy.

    The reason I felt the urge to post...If you guys want to get herpes-II (festering blisters all over your dick and asshole for weeks 4-5 times a year and never able to get a clean girl or fuck your wife without knowingly infecting her)....then that`s your problem. But when you encourage DATY and your ruining the business for all of us clean hobbyists.

    If every guy insisted on ZERO exchange of fluid and just fully protected fellatio and intercourse then most half decent escorts would probably be cleaner than a typical ``bar star`` you could pick up at a night club for free.

    But with all you guys pressuring sp`s into DATY and with your $$$ and keeping in mind that they have do this with dozens of different guys.....this confirms to me that the average escort is highly likely to be dirty.

    So in summary. When I call in for escort and find out that she has firm policy to do only cbj and no kissing, digits or DATY, then that my girl. The alternative is the girl who will do for $40!!!!

    Consider this. If a sp is so ghetto and low class and extremely dim-witted that she is willing to risk sucking on a raw dick (possibly shedding HSV-II) or risk a surprise ejaculation that could be chalk full of HIV/Hep C. Then this is not the type of girl you want to stick you penis into. If she is willing to do it for you that means she has done it for hundreds of guys before you. I really really don`t like the odds.

    Good luck guys. I`ll stick to my clean sp`s and just settle for clean (exciting for me) intercourse and cbj.

  13. #13


    Quote Originally Posted by fsfiend
    I`m new to MERB...

    First of all I don`t want you to take this the wrong way, I don`t mean any offense by anything I say here and I`m not trying to insult you or your girlfriend. This is just a critical rebuttal to your post because I find your logic to be flawed and not based on reality.

    Don`t you think your being a little quick to assume that because a girl is an Sp that she is more likely to have an STD than any other woman you don`t know who you may have sex with that you have not seen results of an STD test for? You make a number of claims that just don`t amount to much more than speculation. For instance, that Sp`s have sex with ``100 guys a month.`` Thats a bit far fetched to begin with but then the next assumption is even more far fetched, that being that an escort is ``100X more likely to have an STD.`` Do you have proof of this? Or is this just a guess?

    Speaking of dangerous behavior you sound like you think that DATY// BBFS is perfectly ok with a non SP. If you believe this you are fooling yourself. You mention being ``in the heat of the moment and not deluding yourself into thinking that this is some wholesome girl``, are we to assume you are thinking this as well when you have just picked up a ``bar star``, as you term them, at a club and brought her home? Or any other girl you ``just met?`` Have you required every single girl you ever did anything with to be tested on a monthly basis for STD`s?

    You mention ``all you guys`` pressuring these girls into doing these things with money and that they have done this with dozens of other guys. Do you think that your non Sp girlfriend has never done anything like this with another guy? Do you insist on ``Zero`` exchange of bodily fluid with her as well? Do you BOTH get tested every month for STD`s? Do you know where she has been in the past or even where she is right now? Are you sure she is not an Sp or a ``bar star`` when you are not around? How about your previous girlfriends, and while were at it, all their previous boyfriends and so on and so on? Are you sure that you are so clean now? Or that your habits are that much more safe?

    Consider this as well, if ANY girl is willing to do these activities you are so afraid of then she is just as likely to be ``dirty`` as any other girl due to the ``six degrees of separation`` theory ( admittedly a theory, but a reasonable one ). Should we assume based on your statements about what you look for as to ``clean`` service that you practice this with your girlfriend and that you have always asked this of every girl you ever had sex with by always practicing ``safe sex?``

    Then you mention the stereotypical ``Ghetto, low class, extremely dim witted SP``, your reasoning for this? Because she is willing to ``suck on raw dick``, a crude characterization which includes probably 1/3 to 1/2 of all Sp`s in Montreal, admittedly a guess, but based on experience. Images have been conjured at this point of the ``classic`` drunken, gutter whore with no teeth, drooling and slurring her words as she begs for a suck so she can buy some more crack. This is a huge thinking error and highly insulting to many SP`s I imagine, as well as hobbyists. The members of this board are not looking for stupid, trashy streetwalkers for the oppurtunity to stick our faces in a filthy STD infested crotch.

    To categorically lump all Sp`s who give these services into one big group is just as ridiculous as to assume that non Sps` are all clean. In my experience Sp`s ALWAYS practice safe FS. I have never been offered nor led to believe that anything else was available, nor did I ask. On the other hand, I have rarely ever been asked to wear a condom by any non-sp I ever slept with (and not to brag but thats quite a few). Even those who did ask would stop asking after we had been having ``relations`` for a month or so once they felt comfortable with me as a ``person.``

    This experience has been similar for most of my friends and therefore I submit to you that the general population is just as ``dirty`` as the SP community will ever be. Most ``normal`` people just don`t view safe sex with a lot of urgency because they don`t perceive a threat from a ``wholesome`` looking person who they see as so wonderful that they want to have sex with. Sort of a ``How could he/she possibly have an STD?`` syndrome, they just seem so nice, and nice people don`t get STD`s right?

    SP`s are quite aware of what they are doing and go to great lengths to protect themselves and be aware of their health by getting tested on at least a yearly basis if not monthly. I can`t say I even know more than a few people who have ever been tested for STD`s at all outside of the escort community. This myth you are perpetuating about SP`s being inherently ``dirty`` and non Sp`s being inherently ``clean`` is a disservice to reality. Sorry you think we are ruining the business for you ``clean`` hobbyists. I wonder how we could be ruining it for you if you are as you say only practicing ``safe sex`` with Sp`s? Perhaps a reevaluation of your stance is in order?
    Last edited by Mod 6; 12-15-2005 at 01:13 PM.
    "I can picture every move that a man could make
    getting lost in her loving is your first mistake

    Sometimes I think its a sin
    When I feel like I'm winning when I'm losing again"

  14. #14

    DATY degree of risk


    I of course take no offense, and in turn I hope I did not insult anybody on this board. If you read on I will point out the logical fallacy in your response after my initial paragraph.

    I agree with your comment about ``bar-stars`` being dirty. For the record I have never had sex with a girl I just met at some bar. Call me old fashioned but I have been with the same girl for 7 years now and she is the ONLY girl I exchange bodily fluids with. And in response to your question: yes I do know that I am the only guy she has sex with and am certain she is not a sp! We have had four threesomes over the 7 tears but each time with a young girl (<20) who we knew from an environment outside the party scene (in other words number of DIFFERENT people they are having intercourse with per year is less than 4). In my post I did imply that on average I consider sp`s dirtier than your average ``bar-star.`` This is 100% due to all the DATY/ e.c.t. I did not however imply anywhere that I partake in one night stands with girls I meet at bars. So in summary my purity and the cleanliness of my blood are intact. We were both checked last year and are clear of even HSV-I which is fairly common (1 in 2 people). So I guess that assures me that my principles are keeping me spotless.

    Now on to your logical fallacy.

    What you have to keep in mind here is volume in terms of number of people you have sex with not number of times you have sex. This of course exponentially amplifies your ``six degrees of separation.`` Six degrees of separation is the theory that anyone on earth can be connected to any other person on the planet through a chain of acquaintances that has no more than five intermediaries. The theory was first proposed in 1929 by the Hungarian writer Frigyes Karinthy in a short story called Chains. There have been a number of neat movies and books with this theme. But, this refers to emotional/psychological connections more than physical connections such as those required to spread STD`s.

    Let’s start worst case scenario: ``Bar-Star`` vs. ``SP.`` I don`t think there are any bar stars who are out partying EVERY night. I would say the worst case scenario is 3-4 days a weeks. And that would be extreme unless the girl has sugar daddies and/or mooches off drug dealers full time and/or has rich parents who don’t watch her (in summary has no need to work and is young enough that three nights a week of partying hasn`t taken its toll yet). Now let’s assume the girl gets lucky 50% of the time (that would be unbelievable). For a bar-star that would have to mean actually clicking with a guy enough to go home with him then and there and jump his bones out of pure lust and desire. This would all work out to an extreme high range estimate of maybe 8 guys/month for the slutiest party animal bar-star imaginable. SP`s however are usually working at least 5 days a week and I know of many that work 7 days a week. Just look at the schedules on Escort websites. Now in one hour they have finished with one guy. Think about it Abe....lets assume the ridiculous ..that the average escort has sex with only one guy a night. That alone is 20 guys a month. But I don`t know many of the popular sp`s that do only one trick a night. I`ve heard all the stories of the overworked sp`s going all day all night. And look at many of their schedules. It’s not a stretch to assume that on average the girl gets at least 3 tricks a night 5 days a week. So I’m sorry Abe, 100 may have been a slight exaggeration for an average; it may be closer to 60 guys per month. How do you think they make so much money???? Then final math 60/8 = 7.5. The average service provider (who allows DATY, , digits) is 7.5X more likely than the slutiest most extreme bar-star to have a nasty STD.

    Now as we branch out from sluty bimbo at the bar, to cute girl with tight ass you met at the gym and had to flirt with for a few days just to get to coffee stage, to a girl you met in biology class at university who just moved out of her parents and has had only three boyfriends and doesn`t like to party really...........the exposure to your ``six degrees of separation`` as it relates to the physical spread of STD`s drops exponentially. Some where along that evolution of standards the ratio can easily reach 100X more likely for the SP to have an STD. So in summary I hate to say it but many of my numbers were not that extreme in the first place.

    Finally. Why is it impossible to get actual statistics on STD prevalence among sex workers in North America? I admit, just to double check I did a Google on STD + Prostitutes and found very little that I wanted to add to this thread. The answer is simple however. There is an enormous stigma attached to prostitution of any type in North America. I ask you straight out many SP`s do you thing willingly admit to their doctor that they are prostitutes? My guess is a very small percentage. This is why it is impossible to correlate the epidemiology of STD`s with prostitution. However if you look at cultures where there is less stigma like in Africa or Amsterdam e.c.t. you will see that there is actually a large body of HARD EVIDENCE that does indeed directly demonstrate that prostitutes are in fact far more likely to have an STD.

    Your idea that no matter what girl you sleep with, your odds are the same at getting STD are extremely pessimistic and clearly a logical fallacy. You obviously did not fully understand the full meaning behind the theory of six degrees of separation. This theory refers to non-physical relationships and connection and how we all know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy.......who knows THE guy. The guy being whatever person is most directly related to any given incident in question. What you need to understand is Epidemiology. I recommend ``Brock Biology of Microorganisms 9th edition, Chapter 22 Epidemiology and Public Health Microbiology. Pamphlets you get at the hospital are designed to be ``spoon feed it to the public`` excessively simple and general. This is why an alarming number of johns and SP`s have no idea what kind of risks they are taking.

    An important point in that text book that is most directly related to what we are discussing (related to 6 degrees of sep) is called ``Herd Immunity.`` Herd Immunity is a model used to understand the spread of infection. What it shows is that you don`t need everybody to be vaccinated for say Hep A, for the population in general to be protected from an epidemic. This is because if every infected individual is surrounded by say five vaccinated individuals and one non-vaccinated another non-vaccinated will be blocked from the newly infected by the vaccinated surrounding him/her. Find a diagram on Google or something and it makes it very clear. This principle has been proven and completely throws your ``6 degrees`` out the window with respect to STD`s. Don’t get me wrong ``6 degrees`` is actually proven in peer reviewed social journals but it simply does not apply to direct physical contact.

    Now with our new understanding of Herd Immunity consider a new danger that you as a DATY, with SP enthusiast are exposed to. There is no vaccine for HIV/HEP/HSV/e.ct. So now we look at the herd immunity model in terms of direct exposure. A black circle is an infected SP. Her circle of people that she has unsafe physical contact with includes all her johns who partake in DATY, . The johns’ circles of unsafe physical contact include many other SP`s. Infection spreads readily through this herd. (All guys please understand that sticking your tongue all in a SP bare vagina and you have MILLIONS of infectious HIV in your mouth if she is infected. Even the slightest exposed capillary in your mouth and you’re done for, with HERPES you get infected whether you have an exposed capillary or not and whether she is symptomatic or smells like vanilla ice-cream). Since she lets up to 60guys per month give her DATY and accept (lets say 20month assuming that 2/3 of guys have common sense). The odds that she will transmit to more than one guy a month are very high.

    So you see Abe you can go on and on about how we are all connected and that you are just as likely to get something from anybody. Yet, a more precise and logical analysis of the situation reveals a quite different picture. Let’s break it down simple:

    (1) SP`s have sex with more people than anybody else.
    (2) If that SP lowers here safety standards to accept DATY and she is exposed to more STD than anybody else.
    (3) More exposure to STD means far far more likely to have STD
    (4) If John sees SP`s regularly and is specifically looking for DATY and he is discriminating against the cleanest SP`s and is just as dirty as the most unsafe SP`s

    So you call my logic a myth? It is actually an established and well known principal in Medical science. I`m sorry to burst your bubble.

    Finally your point about why unsafe johns are ruining it for clean hobbyist. Well this comment even further exposes your ignorance of STD issues. Condoms are by no means 100% effective especially against STD`s like Herpes and genital warts. To add insult to injury it is Herpes and genital warts that you are most easily and mostly likely transmitting by DATY and . So yes, when you partake in DATY and with a service provider you are doing a major disservice to especially other clean johns but also to the entire country as well. We all pay your health bills with our tax dollars. To be honest when I discovered MERB recently and discovered that DATY and are widespread I was surprised, repulsed, and frightened. It has made me seriously second guess ever seeing a sp again.

    You see I can look at this with clear logic because I know I have been safe. You however are hooked on GFE with paid merchandise so you have a strong motivation to be in denial.

  15. #15

    Hold the Phone

    You have thrown a lot of ideas around especially theories which are used by the epidemiology community as tools to assist them not all with the success we might hope for. I find that theories where human populations in all their complexities are concerned can be quite effectively debated, if only because of the complexities, demographics being only one of many. But what really puzzles me is why you made the statement that you discovered merb and that the daty and bbj gave you pause. Yet earler you quoted the incidence of HSV-1 to be 1 in 2 and highly contagious. The spreading of this needs only physical contact topically to spread. And you were still seeing sp's? That it took discovering merb to give you pause? I should think that the moment you became cognizant of the fact of the incidence of HSV-1 and the mode of transmission of HSV-1 you would have quit. Did I miss a step here? Look, instead of running around like "Chicken Little" may I suggest you gather your facts about the incidence of STD's from the members of this site. This site represents the community of providers and their clients. What better place to gather the true data. Then there is meat for debate. Having followed postings for some time I have not seen any postings of the red flag variety to reflect a serious problem. Perhaps it is underreported but at least create a thread and make inquiries. I should think you would jump at the opportunity as one more important step in your crusade. Such a debate would be a service to all
    Confucius say: Man who take woman into house on side of hill - not on level.

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