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Thread: IMPORTANT! -- SP's & all : PLEASE READ

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    Sexy Troublemaker Mlle Bijou's Avatar
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    Exclamation IMPORTANT! -- SP's & all : PLEASE READ

    Please take a few minutes to read -- ladies especially.


    An important reminder that the danger is real, even if sometimes it`s easy to forget or think it won`t happen...... it does.
    Maybe a different city, still the same community, same risks... We`re all in the same boat.


    Be safe everyone.


    https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=81007
    https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=700370


    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mlle Bijou
    Please take a few minutes to read -- ladies especially.
    An important reminder that the danger is real, even if sometimes it`s easy to forget or think it won`t happen...... it does.
    Maybe a different city, still the same community, same risks... We`re all in the same boat.
    Be safe everyone.
    https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=81007
    https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=700370
    Thanks.
    I`m just speechless after reading this. Did the story make it in the news out west?

    There`s alot of trust when strangers meet but It tells you how much the girls are at risk. I trully believe that they should take extra protection and it`s worth hiring security. I mean you guys are playing with your life.

    When violent crime liket his happen it`s one too many!
    Escorts are like a box of chocolate, you never know what you gonna get! Especially with a repeat!!!!

  3. #3
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    Alarmism

    Mlle Bijou,

    I consider your post somewhat alarmist and unhelpful because it does not contain a meaningful analysis of why and how this happened, and how it could have been avoided or prevented.

    In 2003, an SP was murdered in Montreal. There were two things in common between that murder and the rapes of Naughty Nadia which don't apply to the vast majority of SP transactions and to the SPs you are speaking to:

    1. They occurred in private residences;
    2. They occurred with clients the SP had not previously met.

    Most SPs that I know will not meet a client they or their agency does not know, on a first date, at a private residence. For that reason, I find your post unnecessarily alarmist. I know one agency owner who would give the SP the option of taking the call, or not taking the call, when they received a request for a visit to a private residence from a client they did not know. I suspect that this is how most agency owners operate. I recently assisted an indy Montreal SP who asked me for help in setting up an incall at a Montreal hotel via Priceline. I can only assume she did not want to do an incall at her place or meet clients at private residences.

    What happened to Naughty Nadia and the SP who was murdered in Montreal was unquestionably horrible. However these kinds of incidents just don't happen in hotels. I challenge anyone to cite a murder or rape of this nature involving an SP which occurred at a hotel.

    In the past, before I became a Montreal hobbyist, numerous SPs I contacted about coming to my private residence in Connecticut refused to do so until they had met me first in a hotel. I always understood and complied with these requests. In the case of Naughty Nadia, it sounds as though she was doing outcall to private residences and incall in her own private residence. She made $4,000 on an outcall appointment and was followed home by perps who knew how she was operating. This is a surprise to her which she figures out after she fails to deposit the money and is raped and beaten within an inch of her life?

    There have been numerous threads on this Board about SP safety and I have posted that I believe SPs should carry pepper spray with them at all times. A Montreal SP told me she once successfully used pepper spray to foil an attempted rape while walking home from a Metro station. If you have pepper spray and see clients in hotels, or only see repeat trusted clients at private residences, then incidents of this nature WILL NOT HAPPEN.

    The bottom line is that this SP apparently let down her guard. She talks about her "verification process", and while that probably helped LE arrest the perps, it did not help avoid the crime. Verification is for one thing: to make sure that the client is not a cop. It does not and is not intended to screen out would be rapists (most would be rapists have jobs!!). What you want to do is take actions that will prevent the crime from happening in the first place. In a hotel, it is not going to happen. I one time locked myself out of my hotel room in my underwear and when I went down to the lobby, security was on me in 2 seconds, and probably would have kicked my ass if I had not explained I locked myself out of my room. You really think these guys would have gotten very far in a hotel? It would not have happened, period.

    It would really be appreciated if you take the time to think about what you are posting before setting off alarms. We have a few too many "sky is falling" type threads already, especially on STDs.

    **Since I initially posted this it was pointed out to me that some SP did get murdered at a Vegas hotel several years ago by a guy she met at the hotel bar, who then took her up to his room where he killed her, but he was immediately caught because there are cameras everywhere in Vegas hotels and casinos. I don't know all the facts but I am guessing he was probably very high on drugs and booze because you have to expect to be caught under such circumstances. It is probably a very isolated exception to what is stated above.
    Last edited by EagerBeaver; 01-26-2008 at 11:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by My_dingaling
    I find it odd she concluded by informing us she's back to square one money-wise.
    So did I. I am willing to bet she got donations from SPs and perhaps others based on that statement. Whether that was her intent or not is anyone's guess, but remember this is the Internet where anyone can post anything.

    I knew a Connecticut SP a few years ago who had a young son who died very tragically in an accident. I had met her before the tragedy, and the son was the light of her life, and she absolutely adored him. I have no doubt about this. However, after he died, she posted on a review board about it and actually asked members to contribute to some kind of memorial fund. Although I liked the SP in question and found her classy, I changed my opinion of her after she did this. I hate to say it but there have been numerous SPs who have posted about assorted tragedies in their lives, and hinted that they needed money due to said tragedy, and this succeeded in eliciting donations. What that money actually was used for is anyone's guess.
    Last edited by EagerBeaver; 01-26-2008 at 11:53 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by EagerBeaver
    What happened to Naughty Nadia and the SP who was murdered in Montreal was unquestionably horrible. However these kinds of incidents just don't happen in hotels. I challenge anyone to cite a murder or rape of this nature involving an SP which occurred at a hotel.
    I agree that a SP accepting incalls at her home or going to the residence of a client they don't know are not the safest choices...but hotels are not hazardless by all means. No need to be alarmist, but one should'nt go the other way around and underestimate the risks. Minimal safety precautions should be taken by SPs in ALL situations.

    I had direct story accounts from 3 well known SPs who were robbed and brutalized over the past years in hotels. In 2 cases, repeat clients were involved (in one case, the SP has seen him like 10 times before he got violent). It does not always go to the extent of rape or murder and ending up in the newspapers, but there are violent bastards out there.

    Lion Heart

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    Lion Heart,

    I don't know the specifics of the cases you mentioned, but in all of the Montreal hotels I have stayed at, all an SP has to do is run out of the room and yell. Incidents that occur after the SP is leaving the hotel is another story. No SP needs to stay in a hotel room and argue or continue a session with a client who has become rude or violent. You simply walk out of the room. If I heard someone being beaten in an adjacent hotel room or in a hallway, I would either intervene personally, call security, or both, depending on the situation.

    Several years ago I was staying in the Vogue. I went to meet the SP on that second floor landing because the SPs cannot enter the hallways to the rooms without a key. I went out and met her, and as we came back through the door to the hallway where the rooms are, the SP noticed a man lying in the middle of the hall on his back, unconscious. She was terrified and asked me to call security, which I did. When I went out later, the man or his body had been removed.

    About 4 years ago at the Novotel, I was awakened in the middle of the night by a loud, drunken shouting match in French that was taking place in the hallway. I got up and looked outside into the hallway and security was already there. It was a fight that had spilled into the hallway from a late night party, broken up before it ever got started or before it got physical. I don't know what the two guys were arguing about but they were very drunk young guys, speaking rapid French and it sounded almost kind of funny to me, what they were saying and the tones of their voices, until things got really loud. I am an anglophone so I don't know what they were saying but I could tell by the tones of their voices that insults were being exchanged and each was trying to top the other's latest insult.

    Bottom line is that hotels offer security - a security staff and the person in the next room who will come to your aid if you yell. Private residences, on the other hand, you have got to wait for the cops, and they are eating donuts at Tim Horton's and the donuts will have to be consumed first before they take the call.
    Last edited by EagerBeaver; 01-26-2008 at 12:15 PM.

  7. #7
    Sexy Troublemaker Mlle Bijou's Avatar
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    I don't find it alarmist to react to something that could have happened to me just as easily. I did not post in order to cause panic, but rather to remind us all that this can happen and She plans to post a third message with advice on additional safety precautions, which is exactly what I believe the ultimate goal was in sharing her story.

    Do the replies to her story suggest any panic or excessive reactions? Not in the least. They show compassion. Compassion. A concept that is seemingly unknown by some, judging by the tone of some of the comments made. I'm truly disappointed in some of what has been written.


    Although I respectfully disagree with you, I'm offended and also disappointed by your apparent need to make this into a debate or an argument or to dispute facts that are neither here nor there.

    While I understand that the Montreal market is mostly outcalls, this is simply not the case in most other cities. There are many, many of us who find ourselves in this situation. The fact that these 2 incidents took place at a private residence does not guarantee that this could not happen in a hotel room! I challenge you to prove beyond doubt that it will never happen. Because it could. Private condos are no different than hotel rooms. Many ladies here might not offer incall in their residence here, they DO have guests visit them in their hotel room all the time when touring!
    Pepper spray is great, but not very effective if in your purse or drawer while you stand with a gun to your head!


    And finally logistics aside, I don't believe it's bad to remind ourselves of the dangers and risks, so we are aware. I don't think it is alarmist in the least.

    There are girls new to the business who may not follow safety procedures as strict as they should, there are girls who have been in this business for a long time, but perhaps have let a few safety precautions slide with time and lack of bad experiences, or there may be any one of us who knows all of this, maybe always makes sure to follow strict safety procedure.......except for that one exception where we let it slip thinking no harm can happen.

    It's really great that you can guarantee that it would not happen under different circumstances.. But please don't take offense if I don't take your word for it, because if you are ever proved wrong --- I will be the one standing with a gun to my head, not you. But I'm sure you'll be ready for a debate and some advice on what floor the hotel room should have been on for your guarantees to be apply.

    These posts just remind us that it can, it could, in house on a boat, in a hotel room.. Hearing of what could happen certainly serves to remind us that it isn't worth risking, even if just one time because we're in a hurry, because we think we'll be fine. Take it for what it's worth, but please show a little respect, empathy and sensitivity, and perhaps keep the 'This is a surprise to her ... and is raped and beaten within an inch of her life?' comment as inner dialogue, as I for one, think this kind of attitude on your part serves absolutely no purpose in this thread or of any help to any SP reading. It's simply not necessary.


    I don't think that's alarmist... and by the way, I thought hobbyiest might be sympathetic to the risks we take and to the terrible story Nadia decided to share, but really and truly --- the post was primarly for SP's to reflect on and perhaps re-evaluate their own personal safety guideline.


    Sorry your sky's falling this morning. Mine still exactly where it's always been.
    Last edited by Mlle Bijou; 01-26-2008 at 12:42 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mlle Bijou
    Take it for what it's worth, but please show a little respect, empathy and sensitivity, and perhaps keep the 'This is a surprise to her ... and is raped and beaten within an inch of her life?' comment as inner dialogue, as I for one, think this kind of attitude on your part serves absolutely no purpose in this thread or for any SP reading. It's simply not necessary.
    I am really not sure I understand what you are talking about. On the one hand you talk about educating young escorts, but how do you do that if you don't show or point out that someone's method of operation was not the safest method that could have been chosen? Why should it be "inner dialogue"????? This is an Internet Review Board, where we should openly discuss safety issues, and when something like this happens, why it happened and whether it should have been considered a surprise, or to be expected if, as you say, we should educate. I personally find your initial post alarmist; it would not have been if you had added the details I did, and which I felt compelled to do, and which a number of posters already agreed with both in this thread and by PM to me (by the ones who presumably were afraid that speaking their minds might "offend you").

    I feel that an open dialogue, as opposed to misinformation or lack of information, is what best serves to educate.

    For your information there are NUMEROUS safety threads on this Board and I have contributed to them extensively with my own perspective and recommendations. Your intention may be to seek sympathy and compassion but what is actually more constructive than crying over what has already happened is discussing ways to prevent it from happening again. In that regard, I invite your further contributions.

    I never pretended to be any security expert. My posts are basically rooted in common sense.

    As for my opinion on what agency operators do, in terms of allowing SPs to decide what to do, this is based on having spent time with a female agency owner/operator, listening to her take calls, and listening to how she dealt with the issue in person. Whether other agency owners operate the same way or not, I don't know.
    Last edited by EagerBeaver; 01-26-2008 at 01:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mod 5
    traveller_76,

    Eagerbeaver is just giving his opinion. No need for the Drama. We all have a right to an opinion.

    M5
    M5,

    That's okay, I can take her heat. I think GG's opinions probably bother her more than mine but I can handle the venting. The funny thing is my opinions are all based on fundamental common sense. I feel as though I am stating the obvious that nobody wants to talk about for whatever reason.

    BTW good to see you back, and hope you had a good vacation. Hopefully you are well rested and have had restored to you your previously powerful moderation powers.
    Last edited by EagerBeaver; 01-26-2008 at 01:02 PM.

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    t76,

    There was a long prior thread about pepper spray, and I previously posted about my thoughts on that subject:

    https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread...t=pepper+spray

    Eastender is the only poster I know of who has past real life experience in the area of security in relation to SPs and thus I would find his opinions on the issue to be that of "expert", or the closest equivalent we are going to have to it on this Board.
    Last edited by EagerBeaver; 01-26-2008 at 01:17 PM.

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  12. #12
    Sexy Troublemaker Mlle Bijou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagerBeaver
    I personally find your initial post alarmist; it would not have been if you had added the details I did, and which I felt compelled to do, and which a number of posters already agreed with both in this thread and by PM to me (by the ones who presumably were afraid that speaking their minds might "offend you").
    uuh.. thank you for making sure you and your silent friends do not find my initial post any longer...? I'm sorry to hear they are afraid to speak their mind on an anonymous board.. must be quite something in the real world.


    Quote Originally Posted by EagerBeaver
    I feel that an open dialogue, as opposed to misinformation or lack of information, is what best serves to educate.
    An open dialogue would be ideal, yes. But I somehow doubt this is ever possible with you.



    Quote Originally Posted by EagerBeaver
    For your information there are NUMEROUS safety threads on this Board and I have contributed to them extensively with my own perspective and recommendations. Your intention may be to seek sympathy and compassion but what is actually more constructive than crying over what has already happened is discussing ways to prevent it from happening again. In that regard, I invite your further contributions.
    I posted the 2 links and was going to add the final one (once she writes it) about what the SP involved, which as I said was the main goal for posting this. This is not to say that your common sense has not been a breath of fresh air, but I was actually interested in what someone who's actually an SP, and has actually gone through that terrifying ordeal has to suggest when she reflects on the mistakes she made and what could be done to avoid this from happening.


    Quote Originally Posted by EagerBeaver
    I never pretended to be any security expert. My posts are basically rooted in common sense.
    Who's common sense? Aaaah. Yours. Oh.. and your PM buddies. OK, got it.
    I believe 2 of us challenged this 'common sense' on a few points, yet you chose to reply about everything else except for those specific to your safety advice and common sense.


    You are too much. lol I really don't have any desire to argue anymore, you've already decided you're right and you know it all... so hey, I won't keep you too long, I know you've got all those PM's to read from your posse. Pats on the back by anonymous internet fans seem to really make you feel good.


    But again -- you can say all you want if you are ever proved wrong --- I will be the one standing with a gun to my head, not you

    I'll post the last link later on for those interested.
    Last edited by Mlle Bijou; 01-26-2008 at 01:31 PM.


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  13. #13
    Sexy Troublemaker Mlle Bijou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mod 5
    I think the "Mr know-it-all" comment is a good hint, and just your feeling that he does not have any insight into such matters.

    M5

    x2

    that would be my feeling as well. sorry, he does come across as a know-it-all. That's not dramatic... It's just common sense!


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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mlle Bijou
    Pepper spray is great, but not very effective if in your purse or drawer while you stand with a gun to your head!
    I never said that pepper spray would have helped Naughty Nadia. Clearly it would not have. It has helped some SPs I have spoken to, and it may have helped Samy, although she is probably not the kind of person to use it. It's also unlikely as a practical matter that a mugger or would be rapist on the street, who has been maced, will complain to the police that he was maced while trying to perpetrate a crime. He's more likely to go home and rinse his eyes to reduce the stinging pain.

    Regarding the "know it all" comments: every time anyone has tried to post an opinion on this Board that is reasonably intelligent and thought out, that is usually the retort by those who disagree. I just posted my opinions, nothing more or less. I also accurately reported that some have agreed with me by PM. That is not a "posse", just statements I am relaying. The people who PM'd me I have not ever met so I don't know how you can have a "posse" of people you don't know.
    Last edited by EagerBeaver; 01-26-2008 at 01:48 PM.

  15. #15
    Sexy Troublemaker Mlle Bijou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by My_dingaling

    On Drama : if the OP posted this topic to find some contradictory posters to sink her teeth into, mission accomplished!
    But, it's been done before and we're all bored by it now... a re-read of the Juliana "The mods are out to get me " thread or Amelie's "Pour décriminaliser"... are helpful hints about where these types of posts lead.
    I fail to see how you can assume I was trying to stir some drama. I posted links to another board where there is no drama whatsoever. So please don't point fingers at me as I did also post a reply on the original thread and had no idea the topic would be treated as it has here, or trust me I would not have bothered to post. Or will not in the future.
    Anyway.. I'm off. Aside from posting the final link when it's available, I'll leave the debate for those who like to debate.
    Last edited by Mlle Bijou; 01-26-2008 at 01:44 PM.


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