IMPORTANT! -- SP's & all : PLEASE READ

[Maxima]

EB,

I feel for you man. But it's you who incited other to turn this simple thread into an endless debate of a subject that was discussed many times before.
IMHO, when posting this thread Mlle_bijou's goal was simply to inform. Her intention was good.
I can see why she said the following:

...Anyway.. I'm off. Aside from posting the final link when it's available, I'll leave the debate for those who like to debate.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Mlle Bijou may have been attempting to inform, but her initial post did not contain all the facts and if the purpose is to educate, then educate. You had to read through the links she provided very carefully to figure out what happened, which was that Naughty Nadia was running an incall at her own place and also doing outcall to a private residence before the incident which happened at her place.

Mlle Bijou has since ackowledged that this type of incall/outcall operation NN was running is not how most Montreal SPs are operating. My concern was that she would alarm SPs who did not carefully read and understand NN's posts in order to figure out exactly what she was doing that led to this happening. NN's posts I found mildly cryptic, and I had to read through them twice before I figured out exactly what had happened (which is what I wrote above).

I am glad Mlle Bijou posted and brought this incident to the Board's attention, I just did not like the way she went about doing it. However, there has now been a long and thorough discussion where everyone has contributed so hopefully a younger SP will understand the pitfalls and specifically that the type of op NN was running is just not the safest choice.

Also, I do hope agency owners reading this consider very strongly that sending ladies to private residences for appointments with clients they do not know can be very risky for the lady and for the agency. I hope in these situations if the agency does this the driver at least hangs around for a while and makes sure that everything is okay.

 

[amelie]

Hummm...

https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=32883

for all the contry!

Je crois que c`est vraiment temps qu`on se mobilise pour que les choses puisse changer! Même si certain crois que ça changerais rien... Moi j`ai du mal à croire que ça pourrait être pire si c`était décriminalisé. Si vous me croyez folle, c`est pas grave c`est pas la première fois que ça m`arriverait de toute façon et je vie très bien avec ma folie. Mais si vous ne voyer pas les liens, moi je les vois... et tout est lié... tout est lié et relié...

 

[EagerBeaver]

t76,

I will agree with what you said, but I found Naughty Nadia's posts a bit more cryptic than you did. As I said, I applaud Mlle Bijou for posting about it and educating on the problems that can happen running that type of operation. On the other hand, I don't think every single lady considering being an escort should read this thread and say, "hell no, this is not for me", believing that the same fate awaits them doing mostly outcalls to hotels. There is no foolproof way for a woman to prevent crime, whether you are an SP or not. But you can learn from the mistakes of others if you look at and analyze what they did wrong.

I still believe very strongly that even though pepper spray would not have helped NN, it should be carried by every SP and used if needed. A friend of mine recently acquired a taser gun and although they are hard to get a hold of, if I were an SP I would try to get one.

 

[AllOverHer]

I should point out...in both cases , the murder case and the recent incidence with the nasty girl, the culprits were apprehended. If you see girls at your residence and you fuck them over...you will go DOWN !!! which gives some assurance to the ladies. What you don't read about is all the cases that happen at hotels where the perpetrators are able to get away with the crime. Take the recent cases of girls that were robbed of their funds by the clients at a hotel room....they will never be caught unless they attempt the same stunt at their residence..

Myself and many other locals only see ladies at their residence. I refuse to go to a hotel for local calls..its just stupid and pointless. I hope the ladies who do refuse to see clients at their residence finally wake up and realize that a client's residence is the best for their safety..its actually less safe for the client..and some serious trust between the SP and the client needs to be in order before such a date takes place.

However...

wether its a hotel or residence, shit happens..it can also be said, most clients at hotels are tourists..and they don't come here asking for trouble..scumbags will choose to stay in their own city...

SA

I don't think there's a safer way. Hotels and motels have cameras.

Rape is rape weather at your residence or in a hotel room. If the girl doesn't file a report with the cops, you're still a free man. Even if it happened at your residence, the victim still has to prove to whole thing.

How many violent crime go unreported to cops? tons !

Your logic doesn't apply.

 

[AllOverHer]

Hummm...

https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=32883

for all the contry!

Je crois que c`est vraiment temps qu`on se mobilise pour que les choses puisse changer! Même si certain crois que ça changerais rien... Moi j`ai du mal à croire que ça pourrait être pire si c`était décriminalisé. Si vous me croyez folle, c`est pas grave c`est pas la première fois que ça m`arriverait de toute façon et je vie très bien avec ma folie. Mais si vous ne voyer pas les liens, moi je les vois... et tout est lié... tout est lié et relié...

Your quest is noble. But let`s face it. Do you relly think that it would stop violent crimes. I`m sorry a fucked up individual doesn`t care about the law.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Decriminalization

The only thing decriminalization would do is increase the likelihood that violent crimes against SPs will be reported by the victims. It would not decrease the likelihood that the violence will occur in the first place.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I do hope agency owners reading this consider very strongly that sending ladies to private residences for appointments with clients they do not know can be very risky for the lady and for the agency. I hope in these situations if the agency does this the driver at least hangs around for a while and makes sure that everything is okay.

A few years ago, there was one well-known agency whom i may have used half a dozen times or so & not once did they ask me for my name. All they wanted to know was where i was staying, for how long & i'd be told how long it would take for the girl to get there. I did find this somewhat negligent on their part...but i figured they had been operating this way for years & who was I to tell them how to run their business?

 

[La Femme]

I can't believe how cold some people are...

Thank you for posting those links, Mademoiselle Bijou.

What Nadia went through is tragic and I'm sure reading about it can convince SPs to take their safety more seriously. Maybe it can also convince some clients that it's essential for us to know some basic information about who we are dealing with.

Thanks again. You did the right thing.

 

[CaptRenault]

I'm skeptical

I`ve read this thread and the threads on https://perb.cc in which Nadia describes what happened to her. It`s certainly possible that everything she has described is true, but I am somewhat skeptical about the whole affair.

For one thing, why are there no news reports on Vancouver news media websites (at least I couldn`t find any) about these crimes? The crimes were supposedly reported to and investigated by the police. Crime reporters would naturally be interested in a story like this and once the police are involved, it`s fairly easy for reporters to get the story. So where is the news story to back up Nadia`s account?

Secondly, a PERB poster makes some good points in this post about the case:

... You said the cops saw you at VGH and even came to your house for DNA samples. I`m sure they did an extensive interview with you, and I`m sure that you gave them answers to all their questions. During all that questioning, they must have asked where the $4,000 came from that was stolen, where you were before coming home and on and on. I just assume that you told them that you had just seen a client who for an extended stay gave you the 4,000, who`s address and phone number you also have, and obviously you had the attackers phone number. After hearing that you raced home from Scotty`s place to meet a new client with 4 grand in your purse, and that the next new client just happened to be a robber and rapist should have raised a few flags in the cops investigative minds. (Remember, we are not talking about cops investigating a car thief or violent purse snatcher - they are investigating a major crime)
I would think the cops would have wanted to talk to Scotty, if for no other reason than to confirm that you actually got $4,000 from him and just left his place before your "date". If the cops would have interviewed him, I would bet my bottom dollar that Scotty wouldn`t have dared to set up the second rape so soon after the first one. - probably never. (Like - where else would the guilty finger point to besides him after you leave his house with mega bucks twice, and get robbed within an hour twice).

Also, why didn`t the cops pick up the first rapist within a day or two, they had his phone number and a great description. And his arrest would have warned his other 2 pervert buddies to stay away from you..

Third, I don`t think it`s a good idea to accept at face value a story like this told by someone whose credibility we have no way to evaluate. Nadia has no history on MERB and she has a limited history of posts and reviews on PERB.

If true, it`s a horrible story. It might be true. It might be partly true. It might be just a little bit true. It might be just a story that Nadia made up for any number of reasons. I don`t know. Until I see more evidence, I`m skeptical.

 

[Tracy]

Mlle Bijou,

However these kinds of incidents just don't happen in hotels. I challenge anyone to cite a murder or rape of this nature involving an SP which occurred at a hotel.

.

YEAH ME!!!!! I went to a hotel with a client on st jaques after he came to pick me up and HE RAPED ME UP THE BUTT. So uh, dont talk about something you do not know because you are not the one out there.

since then i have pepper spray all of the time with me. and it is legal as long as it is not bear spry. girls get one 30 dollars and keep it with you. it can save your life. ( any army surplus. get the BIG can of legal stuff. it has the highest legal potency.)

 

[Tracy]

For one thing, why are there no news reports on Vancouver news media websites (at least I couldn't find any) about these crimes?



do u honestly believe that they are going to go to the news with this???? i have been raped by clients HERE IN MONTREAL and gone to the royal vic AND the mgh and they tell me `` sorry miss there is nothing i can do.`` i was raped and beaten by someone in a hotel room when i was working at 17. do you honestly think anything happened from it? i rather go to the clients house becaue then i KNOW WHERE HE LIVES something happens.... i have his address.

 

[Gotsome]

new post in perb

A new post has surfaced in perb from someone requesting money to help Nadia.

Has this been a scam story designed to elicite money?
or is this a legitimate attempt to help out a sp?

https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=700538#post700538

By now, most of you are aware of the tragedy Nadia recently went through. While I have never met her myself, I`m sure everyone was touched by the story. While we wait for the short arm of the law to deal with these vermin, Nadia needs our help NOW!
At a risk of sounding cliche, it`s time to step up and show how "real men" act in situations like this. So my challenge to you is this: match my pledge; give up one pooning session and forward the funds to Nadia.
I typically see a lady once or twice a week at about $300 per, so this week I have told my regular lady we`re off, and the $300 goes to Nadia. You`ll see a few details soon on how funds can be securely deposited for her. Doesn`t matter if you frequent AMPs once a month, $500+ Indys every week, or even if you can only spare $10 or $20. This lady needs our help, and more than just well wishes (although those are definitely necessary).
And if you think you can`t donate, just read again what happened to her...I would only wish that on the people who did this to her.
My sincere thanks, especially to the ladies who have already been involved (Izzy, etc.).
LL

 

[EagerBeaver]

CR,

All of your skeptical points entered my mind the 1st time I read through Nadia's posts. I actually did not get them, and although t76 seems to think they are clear, there is an implication that "Scott" was arrested which I fail to understand. He paid her $4000, it does not make any sense to me why he would pay the money and be in on a scheme to steal back the money he paid since if the story was true, he was not getting anything out of it - except free sex. Also, if there are arrests as reported then the media would be all over the story if it happened as written.

I accepted the story as true for purposes of trying to make the point that if it is accepted as true, this Nadia was engaged in an operation that was not safe and could certainly be viewed as inviting the type of crime that was ultimately committed at least in terms of being followed to her incall location which was her home, and getting robbed. Nadia does seems to admit in her posts it was foolish not to deposit large sums.

The other basis for skepticism was continual references to her financial condition which were totally unnecessary and irrelevant to what appeared to be the main point of her post. And the reference to the large sum - $4000 - for an all day date at a guy's house? Sounds fishy to me. For that money I want to take her to the Caribbean. Do clients in freaking Vancouver pay $4000 for an all day date? I would say let's hop on a plane and fly somewhere.

As Tony has shown a few times in the past, there are many suckers on this Board. This is the Internet and anyone can post anything. If it is a scam, it would not be the first of its kind and it would definitely not even be the first time one SP scammed other SPs with a sob story. We can hear testimony on that from a few SPs who regularly post on this Board.

However, even if it is a scam, I still applaud Mlle Bijou for starting a discussion on safety because even if what happened to Nadia did not actually happen, it could happen to someone with the same type of operation, rare though it would be in Montreal. And for that reason the thread is useful.

But don't be first in line to send any donations to Nadia - and have skepticism about anything you read on the Boards. Hell, who knows, PERB may have their own Tony on that Board. Or perhaps someone like Tony but looking to make money on a scam.

 

[La Femme]

CaptReneault, I understand your point.

But personaly, I prefer being a fool than doubting a woman who may have already suffered enough.

So I choose to believe her story.

Tracy, sorry about that...

 

[EagerBeaver]

A new post has surfaced in perb from someone requesting money to help Nadia.

Has this been a scam story designed to elicite money?
or is this a legitimate attempt to help out a sp?

It's starting to sound like it could be the former.

 

[CaptRenault]

do u honestly believe that they are going to go to the news with this???? .

Crime reporters don't just sit around the office waiting for the police and crime victims to bring them stories. Once a crime has been reported to police, as allegedly happened in this case, reporters can easily find out about it. Then they will follow up on their own. So it's reasonable to wonder why we haven't seen any news reports about these alleged crimes.

 

[Tracy]

Lion Heart,

I don't know the specifics of the cases you mentioned, but in all of the Montreal hotels I have stayed at, all an SP has to do is run out of the room and yell. Incidents that occur after the SP is leaving the hotel is another story. No SP needs to stay in a hotel room and argue or continue a session with a client who has become rude or violent. You simply walk out of the room. If I heard someone being beaten in an adjacent hotel room or in a hallway, I would either intervene personally, call security, or both, depending on the situation.

once again...if the asswhole is three times the size of you with his dirty grimy mother fing hands con=vering your mouth what do you want us to do????? run????? how????? got alll hte facts have you seen a girl get raped???? how do u think i can do this and it not f me up???? i dont care anymore cause i really do know what men want.... as long as i get paid for it... so PLEASE INFORM YOURSELF ON RAPE AND HOW IT HAPPENS. OK?

 

[EagerBeaver]

CR,

You are 100% right to have a healthy skepticism about the posts of NN. With the recent info of a new post seeking donations, the continual references to her financial condition etc., I say it's at least 50/50 that it's a scam.

 

[EagerBeaver]

PLEASE INFORM YOURSELF ON RAPE AND HOW IT HAPPENS. OK?

Tracy-

did you read the posts in question or not?????? NN talked about multiple rapes occurring over a period of several hours.........I am still confused by her posts and her chronology, but how exactly do you rape someone in a hotel for 3 hours? I was talking about the type of incident that was described........which is starting to sound more and more like a scam. If nothing else though, it started a good discussion of SP safety in hotels vs. private residences. Just don't send Nadia any money until this story is proven to be true, OK?