IMPORTANT! -- SP's & all : PLEASE READ

[CaptRenault]

...And the reference to the large sum - $4000 - for an all day date at a guy's house? Sounds fishy to me. For that money I want to take her to the Caribbean. Do clients in freaking Vancouver pay $4000 for an all day date? I would say let's hop on a plane and fly somewhere...

Eager, that's another aspect to this case that made me skeptical too. Somebody with that kind of money doesn't spend it on an in-home date with an average escort.

Also, I don't agree with the thought that some have expressed that, whether or not the story is true, this thread is useful as a device to warn escorts to be careful. Would any of you think that it would be a good idea for a client to make up a story about getting robbed by an escort (yes, it has happened) in order to warn other clients about being careful with their wallet when they meet an escort? I don't think so.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Also, I don't agree with the thought that some have expressed that, whether or not the story is true, this thread is useful as a device to warn escorts to be careful. Would any of you think that it would be a good idea for a client to make up a story about getting robbed by an escort (yes, it has happened) in order to warn other clients about being careful with their wallet when they meet an escort. I don't think so.

CR, I must admit, you are making excellent points.

I think it is the job of the Moderators to communicate with the PERB Moderators and determine if Mlle Bijou and everyone else has been snookered. Keep the checkbook in the pocket for now ladies!

 

[Tracy]

sorry to get rude. i have calmed dowm now. its just that when men tell u swomen who have been raped how we are upposed to act and why did we not do this or that.... i got that from a 36 year old mans lawyer when i was 10. yall think it is our fault in one way or another. some how it is the girls responsability to stop it. unless we get killed.. then oh she could not have doen anything... sorry i just think that before people start talking about such touchy things.... get educated on hat you are going to say. i have even been raped in a public swimming pool when i was ten, so tell me a hotel is safer... no one is safe. one in three women will be sexually agressed in their life time. those are real stats from the gov.

 

[Maxima]

CR,

You are 100% right to have a healthy skepticism about the posts of NN. With the recent info of a new post seeking donations, the continual references to her financial condition etc., I say it's at least 50/50 that it's a scam.

How come there was no mention about getting in touch with the Vancouver Rape Relief and Women Shelter for help prior to seeking donations?

http://www2.vpl.vancouver.bc.ca/DBs/Redbook/orgPgs/1/1729.html

http://www.rapereliefshelter.bc.ca/

 

[Tracy]

Tracy-

did you read the posts in question or not?????? NN talked about multiple rapes occurring over a period of several hours.........I am still confused by her posts and her chronology, but how exactly do you rape someone in a hotel for 3 hours? I was talking about the type of incident that was described........which is starting to sound more and more like a scam. If nothing else though, it started a good discussion of SP safety in hotels vs. private residences. Just don't send Nadia any money until this story is proven to be true, OK?

sorry i get riled up when poeple talk about rape as though they know.... tyeah sorry but when i was raped i never asked for cash. i went to the f-er and took care of it myself. i do not think anyone should send her cash cause i am sorry but it is very disbelievable that a girl gets raped then asks for cash. you get raped you find the guy and beat him. if the cops dont do anything. from a survivors pers... i cant agree on her story or not... just the money thing... sounds funny to me. i dont even remeber how much the guy got off of me. it was the scars that had me messed.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Maxima,

Did you notice that Naughty Nadia said she was an SP for 12 years.......yet she had only registered on PERB in February 2007? Many questions. I have sent a PM to the Mods and asked them to speak to the PERB Mods to find out if this is all a scam.

 

[Maxima]

Here is an interesting article about violence against sex workers in Vancouver:

"Off-street sex workers less likely to face violence"

Off-street sex workers less likely to face violence

Study finds four-fifths of prostitutes don't work the streets

Linda Nguyen, Vancouver Sun

Published: Sunday, June 17, 2007
Prostitution and violence do not always go hand in hand, according to a three-year academic study by Simon Fraser University.
In the first study of its kind in the country, criminology graduate student Tamara O'Doherty found that two-thirds of off-street prostitutes - specifically high-end escorts - have never experienced violence on the job.
The number of prostitutes in Vancouver is estimated to be in the thousands, but only 10 to 20 per cent are actually working on the street, O'Doherty said.
The study shows that 80 to 90 per cent work as off-street prostitutes running their own businesses through newspaper and online advertisements, bawdy houses and massage parlours.
She said her research shows people who support criminalizing prostitution because it's violent or not a choice are basing their opinions on the experiences of street prostitutes who "are pushed into isolated areas of the city" and work in fear of the police.
O'Doherty contacted Vancouver prostitutes by sending out mass e-mails to several escort services. The 49 women who responded were not what most people would stereotype as prostitutes.


"These women weren't blonde bombshells who were there for the 'porn star experience.' My biggest surprise in doing this research was how incredibly articulate these women in the industry were," O'Doherty said.
"People obviously assume women wouldn't make the choice to go into prostitution but I found these women are from every walk of life," she said.
Some women were sex workers only on weekends with regular out-of-town clients.
"They're moms, artists, lawyers, nurses, police officers and teachers. You would have no idea if you had one of them living next door to you," she said.
More than 90 per cent of the study participants were university-educated.
O'Doherty argues these women rarely or never experienced violence - physical or sexual assault, threats, clients unwilling to pay or use a condom - because they're allowed to negotiate terms of their transactions, unlike street sex workers.


Aurea Flynn of Vancouver Rape Relief and Women's Shelter said the study goes too far pushing for the legitimization of prostitution.
"What we know is that the average age of prostitutes when they begin the trade is 14 years old and that most women were molested or raped before they even begin," she said. "The fact that they're not reporting it in their current work situation doesn't exclude that they didn't experience violence from males in the past."
SFU professor John Lowman has been researching violence in prostitution since the '70s and said these results confirmed what he's suspected all along.
"The importance of this research is that it shows that the prohibitionist argument is ideological and political. It provides a huge stumbling block and strongly favours decriminalization," he said.
Lowman grew up in the red-light district of Sheffield, England and remembers a childhood living next door to "working women."
"I got to know these women as just women, not as prostitutes, and couldn't believe the way they were treated just because of what they do," he said.

© Vancouver Sun 2007

 

[AllOverHer]

If the 3 scumbags have been arrested the is no way in hell that this story is not in the news.

Don't we have a merb member with connection in BC to find out about this story.

This is not your usual crime here.

 

[EagerBeaver]

If the 3 scumbags have been arrested the is no way in hell that this story is not in the news.

And according to Nadia, not only arrested but held without bail. If the crime is that severe how is that not news???????? And how is Scott held without bail based on the info she posted? Is B.C. like Nazi Germany circa 1945? Another fishy aspect to the story: she says she privately gave out email addresses of the perps, but asks people not to contact them because it will be damaging to the prosecutor's case. The prosecutor likely would have given her strict orders not to discuss the case with anyone, let alone give out contact info on the perps to the community at large. If anyone was given a contact email that read her post, try and send an inocuous test email from an account you never use. I will bet it comes back as undeliverable.

I re-read the story a third time, it's still confusing, and it's still fishy and all her disclaimers at the beginning make it even moreso.

 

[Techman]

I've just read the posts on perb detailing the events. One thing that strikes me as very unusual is the ability of the poster to make these posts in such a clear, concise and calm manner. I have known a few women in my life that have unfortunately been assaulted, robbed or raped. None of them would have been able to make such a post so soon after the events had happened, and I doubt that any of them would be able to make such a calm post about the event even today, many years after it happened. But this person is able to do just that less than two weeks after being raped twice in two weeks and viciously assaulted over a 5 hour period. An assault so vicious that she should have been afraid for her life but was still able to worry about and convince her assaulter to use protection and to mention it as a detail in her post. Now I'm not saying that it is impossible for her to have gotten herself together so fast and make the posts she did, just that it seems unlikely. This alone makes me suspicious.

 

[CaptRenault]

Nadia said a lot of things that made me skeptical. For example:

...I have not told the whole story because I was told not to. I WAS asked to see if there was information or experiences with this SPECIFIC person as it would assist in the investigation...

...I got word today they are very close in catching all 3, tonight hopefully, and have given me the ok to tell the whole story as soon as I get the word...

I'm skeptical that the police would enlist the alleged victim to participate in the investigation in this fashion. I don't think the police would ask a crime victim to use an anonymous internet message board to solicit information to help the case. It's not exactly the kind of evidence that's going to hold up well in court. If this incident really happened as Nadia described it, then there's plenty of other evidence available. Also, it's very unlikely that the police would be communicating with the victim about what is a good time to post the story on a message board.

...Goodlube, fuck off. You are like those people who say a woman can't be raped if she is wearing jeans because she would have to take them off for the man. "Something fishy"? What in the hell would I have to gain by what, lying or whatever you are implying? You don't even know the entire story and you are already making judgements, casting aspersions, and trying to define what is and what is not rape...

Here Nadia is making a preemptive strike against any doubters of her story (like me ) by accusing them of doubting the stories of all rape victims. Sorry, Nadia, but just because we doubt your story doesn't mean that we have the same standards for judging a rape victim's truthfulness as a Wahabi mullah in Saudi Arabia. We can doubt your story and still be sympathetic to other rape victims.

As for what Nadia might have to gain from this story, I think that subject has already been addressed. But the same reasons that others have mentioned also came to my mind.

 

[AllOverHer]

I have to say, I really did not expect this kind of reaction from the male population on this board. It makes me sad. When a guy gets robbed by and SP you get all up and arms. When a girl says it, she must be trying to get more money out of you? What is wrong with you? Turn off the shill-radar once in a while; it might do you some good to have feelings again. t76

You know some very smart people get caught in the nigerian scam !

People have doubts and ot's okay. I mean what is wrong in wondering about the truth of such story. I was shocked after reading it but I did get on the net and search all the news sites in canada about this crime.

People have been arrested and are in jail and not one single news paper is taking about it. I certainly would never send her any money unless I have proof of her story. Is it that horrible to ask for that ?

You're welcome to send her a donation ! It's your choice

 

[Techman]

...

Second, I really don't understand why some of you are surprised an incident like this wouldn't make the news. Have you forgotten the recent high-profile case involving Ropert Picton in Vancouver? It took a while before the story of the women he murdered made the news. CaptRenault, you say "once a crime has been reported to police, as allegedly happened in this case, reporters can easily find out about it." Let me ask you: is it reasonable to assume that Vancouver reporters had access to dozens and dozens of murder reports and didn't act up on them? No, they had to wait until families of victims organized and started making a racket.
...
t76

They didn't have access to any murder reports because there were no murder reports. Only missing person reports. There wasn't even a suspect when those women vanished. And it was a long time before there was an arrest or even a suspect in the case.

In this case, we have a crime report as well as 3 suspects under arrest, held without bail. Supposedly. I doubt that this would not make the news in one way or another.

 

[CaptRenault]

...I really don't understand why some of you are surprised an incident like this wouldn't make the news. Have you forgotten the recent high-profile case involving Ropert Picton in Vancouver? It took a while before the story of the women he murdered made the news. CaptRenault, you say "once a crime has been reported to police, as allegedly happened in this case, reporters can easily find out about it." Let me ask you: is it reasonable to assume that Vancouver reporters had access to dozens and dozens of murder reports and didn't act up on them? t76

T76, I don't see any parallels between this story and the tragic story of the Picton murders. That case was very different. I'm not that familiar with it, but it's my understanding that it was a case of a serial rapist and murderer of prostitutes. It always takes awhile for police and reporters to recognize that they are dealing with such a criminal. For one thing, the victims are dead. They are not around to give detailed descriptions of the perpetrator, his phone number, his address and his methods, as in the case involving Nadia.

Furthermore, the victims in a serial case are chosen at random, further complicating the task of making a connection between the criminal and his victims. If I recall correctly, Picton buried his victims on his farm, so at first the police didn't even have bodies to confirm that someone had been murdered.

It's perhaps unfortunate, but it's true that the news media don't routinely report stories such as "Prostitute reported missing, police have no idea what happened." That's not a crime story in the same sense as Nadia's story. But once the police began to make a case against Picton (perhaps belatedly), then it became a major story with worldwide coverage. Crime reporters, especially those who work for the tabloids, would love a juicy story like Nadia's, especially one where suspects had already been arrested. I'm convinced that if it were true, then we would be reading about it now.

 

[Techman]

t76, that's a good trick if the guy is under arrest and held without bail but is still calling girls. And I notice that Nadia has the time to tell her story on perb but doesn't take her own website off line or post the events on it. Things just don't make sense here.

But don't get me wrong. If this did in fact happen to her she has all my sympathy and those who harmed her should be put away for a long time.

 

[AllOverHer]

Alloverher:

I'm not going to send a donation. If I were a member of that board I would have contacted her. I don't need the story to make the news for me to believe it's happened. Perhaps this is why SPs here have tended to believe her story while clients have tended to doubt. Most of us know someone who's experienced something like this - we don't need to see the wounds on TV.

The point of my post was that people here are so quick to doubt. That's what I find sad.

That said, it could be a scam. But much like La Femme, I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt and be proven wrong later. I've been proven wrong often enough. I'll get over it if it's the case.

t76

I don't doubt the story but now that money is requested I am suspicious.
There's a difference. I rather be wrong because I learned that the story is false than pissed off because I believed the story and sent 1000$ donation.

 

[AllOverHer]

And in related news:
http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/ers/550878512.html
t76

We can't rely call this news. It's an add from craiglist !
I can go on line a post something right away in the vancouver craiglist.

notice that in the rape story Scott is a sweetheart.
On Craig List he's dangerous.
here's the add

Reply to: [email protected]
Date: 2008-01-24, 11:27PM PST
A guy named Scott Kriegner who is staying at the fairmont downtown (hotel vancouver) in room 504 is a complete waste of time.
He is prank calling many girls offline tonight.
He set an appointment with me and called me 4 times in between the one hour I said I would be there to make sure I was going to be there.
He then called me when I was outside and he said he would meet me at the elevator. He never showed up, he just kept saying wait a minute and I will come down.. but he never did. Then he stopped answering his phone after he knew I was in the hotel. He was using the hotel line 6046843131 to call.
After doing a little handy research online of black listed clients I found his name in a different city being warned that he tried attacking a girl with a knife.
This guy is bored sitting on craigslist pranking girls.. fun life!
I would advise that any girl he tries to get to go see him tonight stay away.
Not only is he a waste of time and could be harmful, the hotel also knows whats going on, so there is no reason to go heat yourself out over nothing.
Stay safe Ladies!

 

[AllOverHer]

EB (or anyone), would you be kind enough to direct me to that post? I`m trying to figure something out and I can`t find it anywhere. No search engine on PERB and no way to see posts by member unless you`re registered.

Thanks,

t76

Is this yu looking for?

https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=81007


first line of that thread

First off, the 3 perpetrators have been arrested, taken in for questioning and being held without bail. WOOHOO!

 

[Maxima]

Hmmm

Ok. I've read the story again (part 1 and part 2) in light of the new developments here. As much as I try, I don't see it the same way you guys see it (I admit it's possible it's a scam, but it just doesn't scream out at me... maybe you are too used to being on shill-alert mode all the time?).

Based on the next quote, may be, just may be you only see what you want to see and that has nothing to do with other being called sarcastically as "too used to shill-alert mode". May be it was just a simple case of "tunnel vision" that makes you miss the OPENING LINE of part 1 as well as the "WOOHOO" (Written in Capital letters).

Quote:

And according to Nadia, not only arrested but held without bail.

EB (or anyone), would you be kind enough to direct me to that post? I'm trying to figure something out and I can't find it anywhere. No search engine on PERB and no way to see posts by member unless you're registered.

Thanks,

t76

 

[EagerBeaver]

I was the 4th to post on this thread and saw this as a possible piece of fiction right off the bat.

And I posted that I agreed with your skepticism at the beginning of the thread, but I was too caught up in a debate that assumed the validity of the story to think about questioning it further. My Bad.

One other in the long line of fishy things: Nadia said that the cops gave her the "OK" to post her story after they caught the perps. Cops do not give OKs to let crime victims discuss the crime on Internet forums if the case is pending. It's not their call. The case is being seriously compromised. I am not sure if BC has jury trials in criminal cases but Nadia is tampering with the jury pool by publishing about the case. If there is jury selection the attorneys will ask each and every juror if they read about the case and if someone says "yeah man, I read about it on PERB!!!!", the defense attorneys will get the PERB transcript and they will use it to cross examine Nadia. It is hornbook for any trial attorney that you never let your client or the star witness in the case create a potentially inconsistent prior statement (i.e., an initial written statement that may conflict with her testimony at trial). So I seriously doubt the cops, as opposed to the prosecutor, would make the call on telling her whether she could talk about the case. The cops would have referred her to the prosecutor's office and they never would have let her talk or given her the OK to do so. That is pure unadulterated bullshit!

We have seen how emotional Mlle Bijou, t76 and Tracy have become discussing the issue of rape. I understand why they would be emotional - but so do the scam artists. They pray on the weak and they try to exploit the weakness - in this case, sympathy for an allegedly abused rape victim.

This story absolutely must be confirmed before anyone sends $1, and for all of the numerous reasons ticked off in the last few pages of this thread I am not buying it.

Mlle Bijou I hope you did not send any money, because I think that money is going to some bad people and they aren't rape victims.